3411 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah, Vincent isn't a character who'd use "heck".

Are you speaking objectively, or subjectively since you are biased on this? I don't mean to sound accusing, but mere curiosity since I have no trouble seeing Vincent saying heck. 

[Chealec]

Are you speaking objectively, or subjectively since you are biased on this? 

I have no trouble seeing Vincent saying heck. 

 

To be fair "hell" would have been slightly better ... nobody says "heck"

 

 

... except perhaps Evil The Cat:

[Hanako Ikezawa]

To be fair "hell" would have been slightly better ... nobody says "heck"

A lot of people say heck. Granted maybe not your social circle, but in others it is.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Are you speaking objectively, or subjectively since you are biased on this? 

I have no trouble seeing Vincent saying heck. 

 

Why would he say heck in that situation when he's not shy about saying **** for the rest of the movie? You'd have to replace that word for all his dialogue. Then most of his dialogue wouldn't work anymore and you'd have to rewrite that. Not to mention that he's using profanities almost the entire time, so you'd have to change those, too.

What's left after all that editing is a character that doesn't even resemble Vincent anymore.

[Chealec]

A lot of people say heck. Granted maybe not your social circle, but in others it is.

 

Mate, I'm from the south of England - c**t is a term of endearment* .. heck is like... errrrmmm... dunno, never heard anyone use it... ever!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*mates only - don't try it with your nan!

[Il Divo]

 

 

Of course it has no benefit to those who don't use it. So don't use it then.

 

I also am not pushing for the feature. I am just saying it doesn't matter if it is made optional. Realistically it won't be done of course but I just find it a bit odd that people think they are being shackled by something that is a feature in the game.

 

For example, I think the tactical camera point of view in Dragon Age is a waste of time. But that feature is in there. Damn shame they wasted so much resources on it though, I guess I should be pissed it ruined my game, right? 

 

 It costs resources. Optional doesn't mean without cost. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Why would he say heck in that situation when he's not shy about saying **** for the rest of the movie? You'd have to replace that word for all his dialogue. Then most of his dialogue wouldn't work anymore and you'd have to rewrite that. Not to mention that he's using profanities almost the entire time, so you'd have to change those, too.

What's left after all that editing is a character that doesn't even resemble Vincent anymore.

No, all that's left is a Vincent that doesn't use profanities. Every other part of his character still exists and is easily recognizable as Vincent. And all of his dialogue would work, since all that's being done is using synonyms. The words change to ones that aren't profanity, yet the tone and meaning remain. 

 

Mate, I'm from the south of England - c**t is a term of endearment .. heck is like... errrrmmm... dunno, never heard anyone use it... ever! 

So like I said, just because your region doesn't use it doesn't mean nobody does. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

 

No, all that's left is a Vincent that doesn't use profanities. Every other part of his character still exists and is easily recognizable as Vincent. And all of his dialogue would work, since all that's being done is using synonyms. The words change to ones that aren't profanity, yet the tone and meaning remain. 

 

So like I said, just because your region doesn't use it doesn't mean nobody does. 

 

 

The tone and meaning remain? ... no, they don't. The tone changes completely once you remove the swear words.

 

Honestly, if nothing changed, then why would people be opposed to profanity in the first place? I mean, if it's all the same anyway?

[wolfhowwl]

Some of you guys have weird hangups about nudity and profanity.

 

When did the BSN get to be so puritan?

[Chealec]

 It costs resources. Optional doesn't mean without cost. 

 

You're assuming it has to be done well.

 

The cost would be far less than regionalisation if you're just fading and bleeping.

[Il Divo]

Substituting that one word makes it sound like a conversation with my grandfather, honestly.

 

And it probably gets worse, since that scene's a bit light on the swearing. I wouldn't want to think about Jules' speech edited. 

[FKA_Servo]

Filter what? Filter it how? There are practical questions here. I asked this before, but are we going to cut out Jack's back story about gang rape? Is that what we need to censor? Does the game skip over the scene where people are melted down to become part of the reaper?

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think many of the people advocating this have a problem with it, possibly because this (along with some other deeply troubling stuff in ME and DA) is conveyed through implication or allusion, not explicitly stated.

 

But the bare breasts or the uncut f-bomb is what throws them for a loop. I... don't get it.

[In Exile]

No, all that's left is a Vincent that doesn't use profanities. Every other part of his character still exists and is easily recognizable as Vincent. And all of his dialogue would work, since all that's being done is using synonyms. The words change to ones that aren't profanity, yet the tone and meaning remain.


So like I said, just because your region doesn't use it doesn't mean nobody does.

The meaning absolutely changes. I mean, it's nonsense to say it otherwise. Even hell and heck don't have the same meaning - that's why one is considered to be more offensive than the other.

The whole point of censoring words is to cover up or remove their meaning (hence Mr. Falcon).

[In Exile]

I could be wrong, but I don't think many of the people advocating this have a problem with it, possibly because this (along with some other deeply troubling stuff in ME and DA) is conveyed through implication or allusion, not explicitly stated.

But the bare breasts or the uncut f-bomb is what throws them for a loop. I... don't get it.

Well, people melting alive is something explicitly shown in every PT. But I suppose I see your point; except then the position seems silly. It's okay for Jack to talk about her violent gang rape, unless she's too graphic about it, in which case that's going too far?

[Chealec]

I could be wrong, but I don't think many of the people advocating this have a problem with it, possibly because this (along with some other deeply troubling stuff in ME and DA) is conveyed through implication or allusion, not explicitly stated.

 

But the bare breasts or the uncut f-bomb is what throws them for a loop. I... don't get it.

 

Bingo!

 

... and since it's just those minor trivialities it shouldn't take a major change to the game, bit of pixellation or fading out here, cutting the sound on speech there... aaaaaand jobsagoodun! Sweet as a nut, sorted.

[FKA_Servo]

Well, people melting alive is something explicitly shown in every PT. But I suppose I see your point; except then the position seems silly. It's okay for Jack to talk about her violent gang rape, unless she's too graphic about it, in which case that's going too far?

True.

And yes - that's pretty much how it reads to me. I don't get it, and I think it's profoundly weird.

[N7Jamaican]

I've felt as if Mass Effect has kept it pretty mild.  There other games that are far more provocative than any game in the Mass Effect series.

 

I mean, is language, side boob, and a bare butt cheek really that bad? 

[Il Divo]

You're assuming it has to be done well.

 

The cost would be far less than regionalisation if you're just fading and bleeping.

 

That assumption isn't necessary though. It could be a lot, it could be a little depending on the game. Hence why there's no reason to support it if you don't want it. I push for features that actively improve my game experience. It's not an assumption to say that Bioware implementing this, even in a best case scenario, would have some effect on resources, even if it's rather small.

 

Even optional features which at first glance don't cost too much can become a resource investment when added up. Gaider said something similar from what I remember when a fan asked why Bioware insisted on using the paraphrase system instead of giving us the option to see the whole line. 

[Han Shot First]

Prefer romance to sex, and a simple Fade to Black scene is fine with me.

 

The problem with fades to black is that they can come across as jarring and unnatural. Its just odd to have the scene fade out as the characters kiss or what have you, and then have it fade back in with the two characters standing around fully clothed and not talking. 

 

If they are going to use fades to black to avoid showing any naughty bits, I'd rather it fade back in to the two characters in bed, with implied nudity, and have a section with dialogue. Its more cinematic and would feel a lot more natural.

[FKA_Servo]

Bingo!

 

... and since it's just those minor trivialities it shouldn't take a major change to the game, bit of pixellation or fading out here, cutting the sound on speech there... aaaaaand jobsagoodun! Sweet as a nut, sorted.

 

It's not that I don't see your point, necessarily. Sure, they can do this and not change anything to the actual content for those who want the real stuff.

 

My personal position is just that it might be the least productive application of resources ever proposed on this forum.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Some stuff I just read:

 

http://www.writersdi...in-your-fiction

http://www.rockyourw...-use-profanity/

 

Food for thought.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The problem with fades to black is that they can come across as jarring and unnatural. Its just odd to have the scene fade out as the characters kiss or what have you, and then have it fade back in with the two characters standing around fully clothed and not talking. 

 

If they are going to use fades to black to avoid showing any naughty bits, I'd rather it fade back in to the two characters in bed, with implied nudity, and have a section with dialogue. Its more cinematic and would feel a lot more natural.

So basically you want them to do what they did with Cassandra, but without actually showing her breasts? 

[Chealec]

That assumption isn't necessary though. It could be a lot, it could be a little depending on the game. Hence why there's no reason to support it if you don't want it. I push for features that actively improve my game experience. It's not an assumption to say that Bioware implementing this, even in a best case scenario, would have some effect on resources.

 

Even optional features which at first glance don't cost too much can become a resource investment when added up. Gaider said something similar from what I remember when a fan asked why Bioware insisted on using the paraphrase system instead of giving us the option to see the whole line. 

 

Fair point - but it would still cost less than the i18n work... Microsoft translated Windows into Welsh ffs - that must have cost a packet and only benefits 7 people and a couple of hundred thousand sheep - putting blurs and bleeps into a Mass Effect game would be considerably less work and would be appreciated by more people (i.e. probably more than 7)

[DaemionMoadrin]

Fair point - but it would still cost less than the i18n work... Microsoft translated Windows into Welsh ffs - that must have cost a packet and only benefits 7 people and a couple of hundred thousand sheep - putting blurs and bleeps into a Mass Effect game would be considerably less work and would be appreciated by more people

 

Bwahahahahaha...

[MrFob]

That assumption isn't necessary though. It could be a lot, it could be a little depending on the game. Hence why there's no reason to support it if you don't want it. I push for features that actively improve my game experience. It's not an assumption to say that Bioware implementing this, even in a best case scenario, would have some effect on resources.
 
Even optional features which at first glance don't cost too much can become a resource investment when added up. Gaider said something similar from what I remember when a fan asked why Bioware insisted on using the paraphrase system instead of giving us the option to see the whole line.

Yea, and a toggle for showing some text or not (which is already there for subtitles anyway) is even way simpler than a profanity bleep option.

 

The former takes about 10 lines of code to write. The latter would require someone to go through all the voice recordings with profanities, flag them, write down the exact time and length of the word in question, then write an extra track in the dialogue system for the bleep, that then gets played back at the exact right time and length.

I don't know about Frostbite but at least in UE3 (if you did this for the trilogy) there was no system in place for one sound to overwrite another and then let it smoothly go back to the original, so an entire class would have to be custom written for that feature as well.

 

So yea, this is one toggle I'd rather try and avoid, if I were developing the game (which gets rated M anyway).

 

EDIT: I will admit that it would probably be less work than translating Windows into Welsh though.