3411 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

It used to not be in their games, but as the years went on and they became a bigger and bigger company before becoming part of a huge company that is infamous for wanting to maximize profits off games the more these things showed up. The only logical conclusion is that they want to expand their audience and thus get more money, even if it throws some fans to the curb.

Having only played ME and DA I cannot speak to earlier games, however I find it unlikely that was a conscious move, more likely loosening standards of acceptability in video games (as well ad technological advances) allowed them to put in such content

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Having only played ME and DA I cannot speak to earlier games, however I find it unlikely that was a conscious move, more likely loosening standards of acceptability in video games (as well ad technological advances) allowed them to put in such content

There were games doing worse than what Bioware is doing now at the time Bioware made those games, so that's not it. 

[Steelcan]

There were games doing worse than what Bioware is doing now at the time Bioware made those games, so that's not it.

. I'm as cynical as they come and even I find this hard to believe. Instead I think it's more likely that you're upset that standards, and BioWare, are going in a direction you don't care for

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

The slippery slope for me is when it reaches the point where I must pass on these titles as well as the others, and I am for ideas as suggested by the OP to help stop this from happening.

 

Then so long, farewell, don't let the door hit your 'donkey' on the way out!
 

[Elhanan]

Then so long, farewell, don't let the door hit your 'donkey' on the way out!

Thanks for the invitation. However, shall stick around and see how others deal with the subject.

[Former_Fiend]

It used to not be in their games, but as the years went on and they became a bigger and bigger company before becoming part of a huge company that is infamous for wanting to maximize profits off games the more these things showed up. The only logical conclusion is that they want to expand their audience and thus get more money, even if it throws some fans to the curb. 

 

I disagree.(what a shock.)

 

My thesis on the expanding nature of Bioware's content has always been them constantly, if timidly, testing the waters of what they can and can't do. A decade ago where it was very rare for a Triple A game title to include nudity or profanity and almost never in RPG's. Not to mention that a lot of Bioware's earlier work was liscensed IP's owned by people who specifically forbade certain content. 

 

I don't see this as EA pushing for profits and a larger audience. I see it as Bioware coming into it's own and becoming comfortable with including these elements into these games and exploring themes they couldn't get away with ten years ago. 

 

That being said, it can't be argued that this is hurting their business model at all. ME2, the swearing-est Mass Effect, was the top seller of the trilogy. DAI the first game with nudity in the romance scenes, is the top selling game they've ever released. I don't think that a few uses of the f-word or a few instances of pixelated nudity caused those numbers, but they certainly didn't do anything to hurt them.

[Elhanan]

Perhaps, but I know of a few sales within my own family that were likely missed because of such content. But that has been the case since cRPG's have chosen to go with a Mature rating.

[Former_Fiend]

There were games doing worse than what Bioware is doing now at the time Bioware made those games, so that's not it. 

 

I don't see that as being strong evidence. It's a possible conclusion but I don't think it's the most likely one. 

 

Bioware's always struck me as a company that's rather conservative when it comes to picking their battles. Including harsh language, nudity, and their same-sex romances ten years ago could have easily landed one of their games with an AO rating, especially considering the biases towards the genres they make games for. 

 

Even if they didn't, Bioware's never been a company that believes in thriving off of controversy like Rockstar is. It's easy for me to see why they wouldn't want to dive in head first. 

 

They don't exist in a vaccum. They saw the scandal from GTA: San Andreas' Hot Coffee mod, and the Elder Scrolls: Oblivion nude mod scandals - which scared Bethesda so much that four games later they're still melding underwear onto their models.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

. I'm as cynical as they come and even I find this hard to believe. Instead I think it's more likely that you're upset that standards, and BioWare, are going in a direction you don't care for

I make no defense against that accusation. For years I've been saying exactly that. That said, my point still stands. RPGs that came out around the same time as other games did these things, and made huge profits as a result. It'd be illogical to think that that isn't at least part of what inspired Bioware to follow suit. 

 

 

I disagree.(what a shock.)

 

My thesis on the expanding nature of Bioware's content has always been them constantly, if timidly, testing the waters of what they can and can't do. A decade ago where it was very rare for a Triple A game title to include nudity or profanity and almost never in RPG's. Not to mention that a lot of Bioware's earlier work was liscensed IP's owned by people who specifically forbade certain content. 

 

I don't see this as EA pushing for profits and a larger audience. I see it as Bioware coming into it's own and becoming comfortable with including these elements into these games and exploring themes they couldn't get away with ten years ago. 

 

That being said, it can't be argued that this is hurting their business model at all. ME2, the swearing-est Mass Effect, was the top seller of the trilogy. DAI the first game with nudity in the romance scenes, is the top selling game they've ever released. I don't think that a few uses of the f-word or a few instances of pixelated nudity caused those numbers, but they certainly didn't do anything to hurt them.

You're free to believe that. I believe your wrong. We'll never know since I doubt Bioware will ever reveal that kind of stuff. 

I never said EA was behind this. I'm just not surprised that EA has had an impact on Bioware, positive and negative. No, I see this as fully Bioware's decision to follow the example of others who did this and profited and want to profit as well.   

[BigFoxHole]

I'm cool with what the OP is presenting, Nothing wrong with having the option to toggle explicit content, as long as its an option, and the devs want to implement something like that.

 

As for me, I say bring on the boobies, vulgarities, etc. It helps my immersion. Aint nothing new under the sun as far as im concerned.

[Former_Fiend]

I make no defense against that accusation. For years I've been saying exactly that. That said, my point still stands. RPGs that came out around the same time as other games did these things, and made huge profits as a result. It'd be illogical to think that that isn't at least part of what inspired Bioware to follow suit. 

 

You're free to believe that. I believe your wrong. We'll never know since I doubt Bioware will ever reveal that kind of stuff. 

I never said EA was behind this. I'm just not surprised that EA has had an impact on Bioware, positive and negative. No, I see this as fully Bioware's decision to follow the example of others who did this and profited and want to profit as well.   

 

it is true that Bioware will likely never come clean on the real reason. They might admit to mine, but then you'd be able to make the argument that that is just the PC thing to say verse "we saw the way the wind was blowing, financially."

 

In any event, while there is certainly a point where I would call the use of these features excessive, it isn't a point I see Bioware reaching any time in the forseeable future. For the time being, I'm actually very glad for the inclusion of strong language and nudity as I believe that when used well, it elevates the games and helps shatter preconceptions about the Sci-Fi Fantasy, and RPG genres that persist to this day.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

it is true that Bioware will likely never come clean on the real reason. They might admit to mine, but then you'd be able to make the argument that that is just the PC thing to say verse "we saw the way the wind was blowing, financially."

 

In any event, while there is certainly a point where I would call the use of these features excessive, it isn't a point I see Bioware reaching any time in the forseeable future. For the time being, I'm actually very glad for the inclusion of strong language and nudity as I believe that when used well, it elevates the games and helps shatter preconceptions about the Sci-Fi Fantasy, and RPG genres that persist to this day.

Yeah, them saying what you were saying would be PR talk. 

 

Meanwhile it has already past excessive for me, and has harmed their more recent games as a result. I just hope such things are at least easily avoidable in their future titles. But knowing how they've been going lately, I foresee profanity being an 'essential' part of every character's character, nudity being involved in parts of the game you have to go through, and even crueler ways to harm and kill others. 

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

It used to not be in their games, but as the years went on and they became a bigger and bigger company before becoming part of a huge company that is infamous for wanting to maximize profits off games the more these things showed up. The only logical conclusion is that they want to expand their audience and thus get more money, even if it throws some fans to the curb. 

I call bull$417!!

 

I've been playing these RPG games since they were still Black Isle, and while the early games like Baldur's Gate couldn't show sexual content due to being a sprite-based Infinity Engine game, they were seeding and using adult themes and background artwork that set the stage for Bioware's quality reputation for nuanced, well-developed, and mature roleplaying environments.  Violent and bloody 'Chunking!" was already well-established in the games, and outright sex was part of the romantic narratives. 

 

Just because it wasn't pixellated in graphic detail on-screen due to the technological limitations doesn't give you license to retcon reality with rose-colored glasses.

 

Neverwinter Nights and Jade Empire took things to the next level as the technology and gaming industry matured even more rapidly, and it was VERY evident that as each NWN and Jade Empire romance was introduced that Bioware was testing the waters each time to see how their artistic vision could be expanded.  In regards to the violence and gore settings, they actually took a step backwards for awhile, cutting down on the blood in the NWN series because it wasn't necessarily part of the artistic setting of a Hasbro licensed setting.  Jade Empire brought back the violence and blood as part of the flavor and genre of Wuxia Fantasy Martial Arts and it was an integral part of the artistic setting. 

 

When we examine the plot-integral elements and themes of these series, which include blood sacrifices, a major protagonist character killing their own granddaughter, naked succubi, cannibalism, and copious amounts of killing and soul-devouring, the ridiculousness of censor-filters for the benefit of salty language and nipples sounds just as false back then as it would now. 

 

Mass Effect was the first to take advantage of newer graphical advances and being a completely original in-house property (as opposed to the licensed properties of earlier games) to really show the artistic potential of a grand roleplaying vision that included all aspects of the range of human interaction.  Jade Empire and Dragon Age came close, but the tech wasn't quite there yet.  And then Mass Effect came under enormous fire for its experiment, and Bioware toned things DOWN to try and avoid bad press and continue to grow their vision. 

 

Your assertion that they've been selling out for showing more T&A and violence for the sake of increased sales is fallacious and disingenuous when the truth is they were always building up to expanding their artistic freedom and vision, and were forced to step back for awhile because of market realities, not in spite of them.

[wolfhowwl]

It used to not be in their games, but as the years went on and they became a bigger and bigger company before becoming part of a huge company that is infamous for wanting to maximize profits off games the more these things showed up. The only logical conclusion is that they want to expand their audience and thus get more money, even if it throws some fans to the curb. 

 

Maybe BioWare is including nudity and sex in their games because they feel it is silly to tiptoe around it if you have romance/relationship content?

[AlanC9]

. But knowing how they've been going lately, I foresee profanity being an 'essential' part of every character's character, nudity being involved in parts of the game you have to go through, and even crueler ways to harm and kill others.

Every character? Really?

[Steelcan]

Yeah, them saying what you were saying would be PR talk. 
 
Meanwhile it has already past excessive for me, and has harmed their more recent games as a result. I just hope such things are at least easily avoidable in their future titles. But knowing how they've been going lately, I foresee profanity being an 'essential' part of every character's character, nudity being involved in parts of the game you have to go through, and even crueler ways to harm and kill others.

even crueler ways to kill people? Their last outing made you basically the White Knight in Shining armor for all of Thedas, and the one before that you were the Messiah who only fought evil indoctrinated villains.

[Former_Fiend]

Yeah, them saying what you were saying would be PR talk. 

 

Meanwhile it has already past excessive for me, and has harmed their more recent games as a result. I just hope such things are at least easily avoidable in their future titles. But knowing how they've been going lately, I foresee profanity being an 'essential' part of every character's character, nudity being involved in parts of the game you have to go through, and even crueler ways to harm and kill others. 

 

At the risk of sounding incredibly naive, PR talk isn't necessarily untrue. 

 

And really I just can't understand how a reasonable adult can consider the content presented thus far in Bioware games to be excessive. I get why people consider the content in GTA or Saints Row or the Witcher or God of War to be excessive, though I may not always agree with them. But the content in Bioware's games has just been so mild that I do not understand it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Maybe BioWare is including nudity and sex in their games because they feel it is silly to tiptoe around it if you have romance/relationship content?

You are correct. It is financially silly to tiptoe around something that is infamous for being able to sell things. 

 

Every character? Really?

Yes. Each game, more and more of the characters swear. I can easily see that eventually every character will. 

 

even crueler ways to kill people? Their last outing made you basically the White Knight in Shining armor for all of Thedas, and the one before that you were the Messiah who only fought evil indoctrinated villains.

The fact you're killing bad people doesn't negate the harshness and cruelty of said killing.  The last few games included things like setting people on fire, making them explode, ripping them to pieces, etc. And more than that, they've made it more realistic. Hearing a person scream in pain has more impact than them just toppling over. 

 

At the risk of sounding incredibly naive, PR talk isn't necessarily untrue. 

 

And really I just can't understand how a reasonable adult can consider the content presented thus far in Bioware games to be excessive. I get why people consider the content in GTA or Saints Row or the Witcher or God of War to be excessive, though I may not always agree with them. But the content in Bioware's games has just been so mild that I do not understand it.

I wish I could answer you, but sadly I cannot.

[wolfhowwl]

Daisy-023, what BioWare games have you played?

 

Did you start with KoTOR, a game sanitized for the Star Wars license and console kiddies?

[Grieving Natashina]

Every character? Really?

I've been reading the thread, and this also confuses me.

 

I'm putting together a list of characters that don't say anything stronger than "damn" or "hell" in ME games.  I'm not going to pretend it's a very comprehensive list, since I'm just going off the top of my head.

 

Squad Mates that keep the cursing down to mainly "damn" and "hell" if anything. The same you find on most network TV channels at least in the US.

Kaidan

Jacob

Samara

Mordin

Grunt

EDI

Liara

Garrus

Kasumi

Tali--We really don't know what bosh'tet means

Javik

Legion

 

Squad members/ship NPCs that have used stronger language

Joker

Ashley (I think she calls Udina a SOB either in ME1 or ME3)

Jack

Vega

Miranda (she used the B-word a lot)

Mornith if recruited

 

I can only think of two NPCs that used the F-bomb.  One of them was Sidonis and of course, Aria.  I know Bailey drops a B-word or two, though no F-bombs as far as I can recall.

 

Major/named NPCs that don't curse beyond a "damn" or "hell" that immediately come to mind

Samantha

Kelly

Steve

Conrad

Khalisa

Emily Wong

Gianna

General/Primarch Victus

The Council

Dr. Maelon (not even when he's upset)

The Illusive Man

Kai Leng

Saelon

Hackett

 

 

NPCs cut off from cursing:

Udina (ME1)

Jack (Humorously done in ME3)

 

Uncertain

Wrex--I don't recall any F-bombs nor S-bombs, but I could be wrong. He drops a S-bomb in the Citadel DLC.

 

I'm getting ready to pick back up where I was in ME3, but so far that doesn't seem like every character.  Or even most characters.  

[dreamgazer]

Getting closer and closer to starting a thread asking whether BioWare should just go ahead and make Andromeda "T for Teen". 

[byne]

If you buy a game rated M and then get upset it has M rated content in it I dont really know what to tell you.

[Former_Fiend]

 

 

I wish I could answer you, but sadly I cannot.

 

It is sad, because I honestly do wish I could understand where you're coming from on this topic. Maybe if I could, then I could help change your mind, or I could become more sympathetic to your position. 

 

But as it stands you and I may as well be speaking two different languages.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah, them saying what you were saying would be PR talk. 

 

Meanwhile it has already past excessive for me, and has harmed their more recent games as a result. I just hope such things are at least easily avoidable in their future titles. But knowing how they've been going lately, I foresee profanity being an 'essential' part of every character's character, nudity being involved in parts of the game you have to go through, and even crueler ways to harm and kill others. 

 

All aboard the SSV Bonobo Sailor. Everyone humps everyone else to say hello, while swearing their asses off. 

[wolfhowwl]

I wouldn't want this gem censored.