3411 réponses à ce sujet

[timebean]

I just have one more quick post before jetting off to work...

 

I recall a poster on the DAI forums who said they would never let their 15 year old play the game.  I assumed it was because of nudity or language or violence.  The poster had an interesting point.  She said that her problem with Bioware games was not any of that, because none of those were ever a big part of the games.  Her problem was the moral choices that had to be made in the game...things like passing judgement on people, or choosing to kill on person to save many. These are very deep and troubling things to a young mind.  They can even be so to older minds.

 

I was sort of "awakened" by that thought.  We worry so much about the setting...how much blood, bad language, a bit of boob...but the things that can truly be troubling are the things we tend to disregard.  Did you kill the Batarian settlers in ME?  Did you blow up that relay?  Did you save the council or Anderson?

 

My point...in a game with such heightened and dramatic moral choices, it almost seems an afterthought to worry about gore, etc.  The content itself is very heavy and often dark.  And thus, the other stuff seems moot, imo...

[Iakus]

Go watch the romance scenes for Triss, Keira Metz, any prostitute, or that viking lady whose name I forget i TW3, then call it gratuitous nudity

I did watch the Yennifer scene which I understand is one of the "official" romances for Geralt.

 

That unicorn...

[Grieving Natashina]

It's true that you generally have to actively seek this stuff out.

Agreed.  It also doesn't really change Bryan's point.  Yes, there is some nudity in the romances, but the romances themselves are optional content.  That's probably why it won't change.  It's not like it's ingrained into the main story.  I also can't see BioWare making nudity mandatory for a major quest.

 

As for the Witcher, well I can only speak for the first game, but it didn't take that long to run into the fully nude nymph that was part of a major questline (which the green mossy pubic hair makes me laugh to this day.)  It wasn't graphic or gratuitous.  She was a nymph and it made sense that she was sans clothing.  

 

I'm wondering if nudity is really the issue here or if it's any kind of nudity relating to sex that bothers some folks.

[dreamgazer]

I did watch the Yennifer scene which I understand is one of the "official" romances for Geralt.

That unicorn...

Again, though, it's optional and skippable.

Which is more gratuitous: sex on a stuffed unicorn, or sex with an alien?

[Il Divo]

I just have one more quick post before jetting off to work...

 

I recall a poster on the DAI forums who said they would never let their 15 year old play the game.  I assumed it was because of nudity or language or violence.  The poster had an interesting point.  She said that her problem with Bioware games was not any of that, because none of those were ever a big part of the games.  Her problem was the moral choices that had to be made in the game...things like passing judgement on people, or choosing to kill on person to save many. These are very deep and troubling things to a young mind.  They can even be so to older minds.

 

I was sort of "awakened" by that thought.  We worry so much about the setting...how much blood, bad language, a bit of boob...but the things that can truly be troubling are the things we tend to disregard.  Did you kill the Batarian settlers in ME?  Did you blow up that relay?  Did you save the council or Anderson?

 

My point...in a game with such heightened and dramatic moral choices, it almost seems an afterthought to worry about gore, etc.  The content itself is very heavy and often dark.  And thus, the other stuff seems moot, imo...

 

This point came up in the "Should ME be a T rated game?" as well. 

 

Take something like KotOR 2, which manages to escape an M rating. There's little to no swearing, the love scenes are implied rather than directly shown, and while there's a lot of death, the animations are subdued.

 

It also allows the protagonist to manipulate a tortured young woman into falling in love with him and convince her to sacrifice herself in order to kill her former abusive master. At which point, you have the ability to gloat at how you used her while she dies in front of you. 

 

I certainly don't want the nature of the game to change (I loved KotOR2), but it does make me skeptical of the idea that hearing the F word or seeing a naked body is somehow more dangerous than the dilemmas portrayed in Bioware/Obsidian games. 

[Elhanan]

Agreed.  It also doesn't really change Bryan's point.  Yes, there is some nudity in the romances, but the romances themselves are optional content.  That's probably why it won't change.  It's not like it's ingrained into the main story.  I also can't see BioWare making nudity mandatory for a major quest.
 
As for the Witcher, well I can only speak for the first game, but it didn't take that long to run into the fully nude nymph that was part of a major questline (which the green mossy pubic hair makes me laugh to this day.)  It wasn't graphic or gratuitous.  She was a nymph and it made sense that she was sans clothing.  
 
I'm wondering if nudity is really the issue here or if it's any kind of nudity relating to sex that bothers some folks.

DAO had a like character in the Lady of the Forest, which was artfully done, IMO. This was not an optional quest really, as it seemed directly attached to the MQ. And I only speak for myself, but I did not find this excessive or explicit.

But other games do seem to have more nudity, and these scenes are more common. I am thankful that Bioware generally chooses to leave it in optional content, and not seen commonly, esp not advertised as main content.

[Bryan Johnson]

However, the Cassandra romance in DAI, I could not  skip past it.  So in order to have that love story, I had to take a topless scene along with it.  Certainly not as gratuitous as what would find in one of the Witcher games.  But the option would certainly have been nice.  I'm sure it bothered others a lot more than it did me.

Thank you this is something that I had not considered, and something that I will add as a "feather in my cap" to watch out for in the future.

[FKA_Servo]

This point came up in the "Should ME be a T rated game?" as well. 

 

Take something like KotOR 2, which manages to escape an M rating. There's little to no swearing, the love scenes are implied rather than directly shown, and while there's a lot of death, the animations are subdued.

 

It also allows the protagonist to manipulate a tortured young woman into falling in love with him and convince her to sacrifice herself in order to kill her former abusive master. At which point, you have the ability to gloat at how you used her while she dies in front of you. 

 

I certainly don't want the nature of the game to change (I loved KotOR2), but it does make me skeptical of the idea that hearing the F word or seeing a naked body is somehow more dangerous than the dilemmas portrayed in Bioware games. 

 

Which is why it's so strange to me when people trip over the former, without batting an eye at the latter.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

If we're military, squad banter should have swearing. Seriously, I don't mind nudity in the romance scenes. I was disappointed that the scenes were as short as they were. *ducks and runs* But I understand the ratings and the conservative right in running the media that "this would ruin our children" who were not the target of the game in the first place. Rated M, game stores don't sell the game to people under the age of 18. Parents buy the game for their 12 year olds. But it's easy to put a "press A to skip" for cut scenes. I really wanted a "press A to skip" the dream of starbrat scenes in ME3.

 

In the 1990s kids grew up playing Mortal Kombat and watching "Fatality!" with their opponent being blown to chunks, or dragged across a  saw blade. Come on people. Are they horrible adults now? Don't answer that question. I played Mortal Kombat with my then 13 year old and he used to kick my ass. He has a PhD now.

 

ESRB, ShmESRB!

[FKA_Servo]

Thank you this is something that I had not considered, and something that I will add as a "feather in my cap" to watch out for in the future.

 

Honestly, universally skippable cutscenes are not a terrible idea. The introduction to ME2 is usually my exhibit "A" for this, considering how many restarts it took to get my face right.

 

(Though, if I were the one responsible for making the cutscenes, I might justifiably feel differently.)

[laudable11]

The cursing is the only thing I notice. When I'm playing multiplayer (COD or Battlefield) I don't need to hear some random soldier dude cursing in the worst way possible just because it "adds flavor".

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Call of Duty without the swearing:

 

"Darn it!"

 

"Heck with this!"

 

"Get the heck out of there!"

 

"You stupid so and so! Get your sorry behind up that hill!"

[DaemionMoadrin]

Don't Germany and Australia have insane censor rules for games too?

 

I know Germany heavily censors that one thing (which I won't bother typing because I'm pretty sure this forum does too), but I thought they got really weird about violence as well. Australia is, of course, just bonkers in this regard, if I recall.

 

Germany doesn't actually censor, we have different requirements for the ratings. Meaning a game that can be sold to teens in the USA may get an 18+ rating in Germany because of the violence depicted in it. The system is called FSK and means something like voluntary self control, meaning it's up to the publisher to change the game (green or no blood) if they want to sell it to a broader audience and be allowed to run ads for it. They don't have to, they can accept the 18+ rating and people who want to buy it need to show their ID.

The Witcher and similiar games have a 18+ rating, so there were no changes.

 

I always buy the english version on Steam/Origin or order the discs from the UK, usually because of the language and not because I need the violence.

 

 

Unskippable cutscenes: Yes, those annoyed me so much in DA:I. The first time was when your people break out in song between Haven and Skyhold. Seriously, once was enough... but because I was trying to save all the NPCs during the attack on Haven, I had to go through that sequence several times and couldn't skip it. WTF, BioWare?

The Cassandra romance was almost as bad... the moment she started to recite poetry I had to leave the room (really dislike that) and only came back once she got naked. If I could have skipped the cutscene, I probably would have.

 

 

I'm not sure I would let kids play KotOR 1/2. I think if they were 16+ and mature, then yes. Otherwise the themes go way over their head.

 

I know it happened to me, I read all kinds of books when I was a kid, even adult ones. It was only when I re-read those years later that I realized what some scenes were about. ^^

[Bryan Johnson]

Honestly, universally skippable cutscenes are not a terrible idea. The introduction to ME2 is usually my exhibit "A" for this, considering how many restarts it took to get my face right.

 

(Though, if I were the one responsible for making the cutscenes, I might justifiably feel differently.)

Sometimes unskippable cut scenes are used to control streaming

[Grieving Natashina]

My parents were selective and treated media by a case-by-case basis.  For instance, I saw Terminator 2 in the theatre when it came out.  I was 11 years old, my brother was 9.  That was considered okay as far as my parents were concerned, and my parents were there for it.  I saw both Predator movies, most of the Death Wish movies, and my parents were fine with that.  They didn't let us watch it unsupervised.  Movies like Fatal Attraction, Basic Instinct, Platoon, Apocalypse Now and Taxi Driver were all big nos.  Guns and Roses was a big favorite of my parents, but they didn't let my brother listen to uncensored gangsta rap when he was 10.

 

As far as the current discussion.  I'm okay with skippable cutscenes.  I liked the "The Dawn Will Come" sequence, but I would have liked to skip the scene just after that.  I'm against having the rating changed to a T, as much as I'm against the numerous filters suggested in the other thread.  The option to skip through cinematic cutscenes would be welcome.  I mean, I enjoy them.  It's one of the best things about a BW game.  However, sometimes I feel like watching them, and sometimes I would prefer to get back to the action. 

[Pasquale1234]

I am just as protective of my mind as the OP.  For example, I adored Game of Thrones.  But I have decided to stop watching it because I do not want my MIND to get used to watching rape.  I think that becoming desensitized to that is bad for my mind and my soul (all that jazz). I don't want torture and rape to become commonplace in my entertainment diet.

It's nice to see that someone here gets it, or is at least willing to try.

There is a boatload of assumptions, accusations and the like about the OP's reasons for the request.

When I served in the US Navy, I had a shop chief who dropped every form of the f-bomb in pretty much every sentence that came out of his mouth. I often found myself wondering what he might say or do to express genuine intense emotion. Language wise, there really wasn't anywhere else for him to go.

Like most folks, I try to avoid certain language around people who might take offense, but will otherwise occasionally use it. I also think it might be the most limiting and resource-intensive filter requested here.

As for violence - I still remember my first plays of Fallout 3 and ME1, them being the first shooters I've ever played. Until I got the hang of it, the PC died frequently - and I was treated to watching my PC ragdoll in slo-mo. The emotional experience was pretty intense at first, but after watching that a few times, 2 things happened:
-- I became desensitized to it, thus reducing the emotional impact of the rest of the game.
-- I became emotionally disconnected from the character.
Neither of those things bode well for immersion in the story and game world.

OTT violence - decapitation, exploding giblet bodies, and the like - are so ridiculous as to remove any sense of realism in the depictions of grisly deaths. Maybe that's a good thing - I don't know. If it looked more realistic, players might actually think more about the massive body count building throughout the game.

As for sex scenes in an RPG - well, the more explicit anything is shown in an RPG, the more the character belongs to the writers instead of the player. One of the reasons that ME3 is my least favorite of the trilogy is because it was the most cinematic, had the longest sequences of multiple cutscenes, and thus took a lot of control (and connection) away from the player. I tend to think of role-play as a collaboration between devs and the players. The devs provide a toolset with which I can craft a character and story - by doing (or not) sidequests, by making the choices presented, and by filling in the details that aren't explicitly shown. I'd rather be allowed to decide for myself how it all went down than be shown an explicit sex scene written by someone else.

[SagaX]

If I like a mature game, tv show, comic, or novel its BECAUSE OF ITS CONTENT. If you dont like it YOU CAN CHOSE OTHER PRODUCT, nothing forces you to like mature content.

Its like having Game of Thrones and someone saying "GoT is too gory and nude, etc, please remove all of that and make it more for all audiences"... DAMN IT! Youre asking something to lose what it makes it be what it is!!!

Its like asking God to change what dogs are because you dont like what they are. If you dont like what it is, have something else(like a cat, or rabbit, or parrot or lizard), nobody is forcing you to have something you dont like.

" I love iceCream. I hate they are cold" IceCreams are meant to be cold. People these days XS

[Cyonan]

I just have one more quick post before jetting off to work...

 

I recall a poster on the DAI forums who said they would never let their 15 year old play the game.  I assumed it was because of nudity or language or violence.  The poster had an interesting point.  She said that her problem with Bioware games was not any of that, because none of those were ever a big part of the games.  Her problem was the moral choices that had to be made in the game...things like passing judgement on people, or choosing to kill on person to save many. These are very deep and troubling things to a young mind.  They can even be so to older minds.

 

I was sort of "awakened" by that thought.  We worry so much about the setting...how much blood, bad language, a bit of boob...but the things that can truly be troubling are the things we tend to disregard.  Did you kill the Batarian settlers in ME?  Did you blow up that relay?  Did you save the council or Anderson?

 

My point...in a game with such heightened and dramatic moral choices, it almost seems an afterthought to worry about gore, etc.  The content itself is very heavy and often dark.  And thus, the other stuff seems moot, imo...

 

I never actually thought of that. I suppose all I really have to go off of is my own experience, and I never really found those choices troubling when I was a teenager.

 

I do find it kind of amusing that we make a big deal about nudity in a game that teenagers might play. It's like they're completely unaware of what the average 14 year old boy is searching for online in their spare time.

 

It's not math homework =P

[Chealec]

I never actually thought of that. I suppose all I really have to go off of is my own experience, and I never really found those choices troubling when I was a teenager.

 

I do find it kind of amusing that we make a big deal about nudity in a game that teenagers might play. It's like they're completely unaware of what the average 14 year old boy is searching for online in their spare time.

 

It's not math homework =P

 

Multiplication?

[Pasquale1234]

This point came up in the "Should ME be a T rated game?" as well. 
 
Take something like KotOR 2, which manages to escape an M rating. There's little to no swearing, the love scenes are implied rather than directly shown, and while there's a lot of death, the animations are subdued.
 
It also allows the protagonist to manipulate a tortured young woman into falling in love with him and convince her to sacrifice herself in order to kill her former abusive master. At which point, you have the ability to gloat at how you used her while she dies in front of you. 
 
I certainly don't want the nature of the game to change (I loved KotOR2), but it does make me skeptical of the idea that hearing the F word or seeing a naked body is somehow more dangerous than the dilemmas portrayed in Bioware/Obsidian games.

You make an excellent point.

This, and decisions like Virmire, genophage, the survival of species, etc. are the things that are mature content imho.

Mature content =/= sex, nudity, violence, language.

[Elhanan]

If I like a mature game, tv show, comic, or novel its BECAUSE OF ITS CONTENT. If you dont like it YOU CAN CHOSE OTHER PRODUCT, nothing forces you to like mature content.

Its like having Game of Thrones and someone saying "GoT is too gory and nude, etc, please remove all of that and make it more for all audiences"... DAMN IT! Youre asking something to lose what it makes it be what it is!!!

Its like asking God to change what dogs are because you dont like what they are. If you dont like what it is, have something else(like a cat, or rabbit, or parrot or lizard), nobody is forcing you to have something you dont like.

" I love iceCream. I hate they are cold" IceCreams are meant to be cold. People these days XS

Two words: Baked Alaska

[Sartoz]

I just have one more quick post before jetting off to work...

 

I recall a poster on the DAI forums who said they would never let their 15 year old play the game.  I assumed it was because of nudity or language or violence.  The poster had an interesting point.  She said that her problem with Bioware games was not any of that, because none of those were ever a big part of the games.  Her problem was the moral choices that had to be made in the game...things like passing judgement on people, or choosing to kill on person to save many. These are very deep and troubling things to a young mind.  They can even be so to older minds.

 

I was sort of "awakened" by that thought.  We worry so much about the setting...how much blood, bad language, a bit of boob...but the things that can truly be troubling are the things we tend to disregard.  Did you kill the Batarian settlers in ME?  Did you blow up that relay?  Did you save the council or Anderson?

 

My point...in a game with such heightened and dramatic moral choices, it almost seems an afterthought to worry about gore, etc.  The content itself is very heavy and often dark.  And thus, the other stuff seems moot, imo...

 

                                                                       <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

Good Point.

 

If she won't allow her 15 yr old play DAI then I hope she also doen't allow any of the FPS shooters either.  Unless, it's the judgement she's worrying about.

[Cyonan]

Multiplication?

 

I'm pretty sure there's some subtraction involved with the clothing.

[dreamgazer]

You make an excellent point.

This, and decisions like Virmire, genophage, the survival of species, etc. are the things that are mature content imho.

Mature content =/= sex, nudity, violence, language.

They're both mature content, in different spectrums. One deals in aesthetics, the other deals in psychology, and they both deal in provoking the senses. It's all about whether the low-average age user of that rating bracket can handle the presented material.

[Chealec]

I'm pretty sure there's some subtraction involved with the clothing.

 

Hmmm how about biology then?