3411 réponses à ce sujet

[Panda]

I just have one more quick post before jetting off to work...

 

I recall a poster on the DAI forums who said they would never let their 15 year old play the game.  I assumed it was because of nudity or language or violence.  The poster had an interesting point.  She said that her problem with Bioware games was not any of that, because none of those were ever a big part of the games.  Her problem was the moral choices that had to be made in the game...things like passing judgement on people, or choosing to kill on person to save many. These are very deep and troubling things to a young mind.  They can even be so to older minds.

 

I was sort of "awakened" by that thought.  We worry so much about the setting...how much blood, bad language, a bit of boob...but the things that can truly be troubling are the things we tend to disregard.  Did you kill the Batarian settlers in ME?  Did you blow up that relay?  Did you save the council or Anderson?

 

My point...in a game with such heightened and dramatic moral choices, it almost seems an afterthought to worry about gore, etc.  The content itself is very heavy and often dark.  And thus, the other stuff seems moot, imo...

 

I don't quite find hard choices to be something bad for kids and teenagers, they likely won't care/consider all things involved like some players (like not everyone thinks hard with every "hard" choice) or then it teach them sth, which likely isn't that bad. However I agree that mature content isn't amount of blood and side blood to me, it's disturbing and shocking storylines and things that happen like Jack's loyalty guest that I pointed out earlier. Hearing Jack describing how the life for her was there and seeing chairs where the experiences was done to kids and so on.. it's heavy stuff even if there wasn't graphical violence so much in that guest.

[Grieving Natashina]

Unedited, because my ability to read tone over text is sucking hard today: 

 

 

At this point we've gotten deeper than just nudity or gore or language.  Now I think we're onto something.  Themes and how they can affect ratings.  This is something that is often overlooked in these kinds of conversations. 

 

So here are my questions and I think it's related to the OP.  This has been a very productive thread over all and a lot of smart posters are in here.  I'm trying to gather some perspective, and I was curious about what some of the opinions where here:

 

Would having a T rated game effect the stories and themes in ME in a negative way?  Is many of themes of previous ME games still considered within the T/15-16+ spectrum?  Or would some of those themes have to be toned down for the sake of the rating?  And if so, would this affect the quality of the game overall, or would the impact be considered minimal?  Where should the line be drawn in order for it to be a T rating?

 

Again, I'm not talking about the side boobs/butts, or the topless scenes in DA:I, or the blood, or the mostly PG-13 language.  We've covered those and then some.  The themes I think bare some closer examination. T hat needs to cook in my hindbrain for a bit, so I'll my share my own thoughts when I feel like I can express them correctly.

[dreamgazer]

So here are my questions and I think it's related to the OP:
 
Would having a T rated game effect the stories and themes in ME in a negative way?  Is many of themes of previous ME games still considered within the T/15-16+ spectrum?  Or would some of those themes have to be toned down for the sake of the rating?  And if so, would this affect the quality of the game overall, or would the impact be considered minimal?  Where should the line be drawn in order for it to be a T rating?

[Grieving Natashina]

What did I do?     I didn't mean to offend you, at all.  

 

Ah crap.  Truthfully, I just now noticed which thread I was in.  Dang it, I'm so sorry Dream.

 

I'm going to edit and just put a link to your OP.

 

Edit: Not my finest morning.  

[KaiserShep]

He's always like that. You need to chill out, Naomi Watts.

[dreamgazer]

I wanted to swing things fully back on topic is all.
 
What did I do?     I didn't mean to offend you, at all.

Maker, you didn't offend me. I was kidding.

The post I quoted was where I hoped the "T for Teen" thread would eventually go, before the emus invaded.

[DaemionMoadrin]

At this point we've gotten deeper than just nudity or gore or language.  Now I think we're onto something.  Themes and how they can affect ratings.  This is something that is often overlooked in these kinds of conversations. 

 

So here are my questions and I think it's related to the OP.  This has been a very productive thread over all and a lot of smart posters are in here.  I'm trying to gather some perspective, and I was curious about what some of the opinions where here:

 

Would having a T rated game effect the stories and themes in ME in a negative way?  Is many of themes of previous ME games still considered within the T/15-16+ spectrum?  Or would some of those themes have to be toned down for the sake of the rating?  And if so, would this affect the quality of the game overall, or would the impact be considered minimal?  Where should the line be drawn in order for it to be a T rating?

 

Again, I'm not talking about the side boobs/butts, or the topless scenes in DA:I, or the blood, or the mostly PG-13 language.  We've covered those and then some.  The themes I think bare some closer examination. T hat needs to cook in my hindbrain for a bit, so I'll my share my own thoughts when I feel like I can express them correctly.

 

I think the issue here is that the definitions for the different ratings don't take those themes into account. The ratings look for superficial stuff like gore, language and nudity, they don't seem to care overly much about context. That being said, in Germany violence is okay if it's part of the story. It is not when exists just for its own sake.

[dreamgazer]

Would the genophage fit under "sexual themes"?

Would Virmire fit under "violence"?

[KaiserShep]

Maker, you didn't offend me. I was kidding.The post I quoted was where I hoped the "T for Teen" thread would eventually go, before the emus invaded.

What do you expect from emus? They look like something Jim Henson cobbled together with used mops.

[Grieving Natashina]

Maker, you didn't offend me. I was kidding.

The post I quoted was where I hoped the "T for Teen" thread would eventually go, before the emus invaded.

Ah.  I blame it on literally 3 hours of sleep.    I think my online e-tone detector is glitching out.  

 

I'm gonna grab some more coffee, because my insomnia is raging, and I'm not going to sleep anyhow.  More caffeine before posting next time. I'll come back later.  

 

@Kaiser  If you're calling me Naomi Watts, that referenced sailed right over my head.  I know who she is, but not what you're referring to.

[dreamgazer]

@Kaiser  If you're calling me Naomi Watts, that referenced sailed right over my head.  I know who she is, but not what you're referring to.

Yeah, you need caffeine. Kaiser's scolding me.

[Grieving Natashina]

Yeah, you need caffeine. Kaiser's scolding me.

I'm facepalming so hard right now.  Yeah, I'll be back in about an hour or so.  

[KaiserShep]

I was sort of hoping someone would've read it in James Vega's voice.

[God]

If we're military, squad banter should have swearing. Seriously, I don't mind nudity in the romance scenes. I was disappointed that the scenes were as short as they were. *ducks and runs* But I understand the ratings and the conservative right in running the media that "this would ruin our children" who were not the target of the game in the first place. Rated M, game stores don't sell the game to people under the age of 18. Parents buy the game for their 12 year olds. But it's easy to put a "press A to skip" for cut scenes. I really wanted a "press A to skip" the dream of starbrat scenes in ME3.

 

In the 1990s kids grew up playing Mortal Kombat and watching "Fatality!" with their opponent being blown to chunks, or dragged across a  saw blade. Come on people. Are they horrible adults now? Don't answer that question. I played Mortal Kombat with my then 13 year old and he used to kick my ass. He has a PhD now.

 

ESRB, ShmESRB!

 

Uh... that's not always the case. We swear, but we don't swear like Hollywood portrays us. 

 

If we're military, we should be a lot more sociopathic and clinical. And we actually need to sound like we're using a Radio.

 

"Dagger Actual, this is Dagger One Bravo. Interrogative: What frequency is UAV Infralink? HAVE BLUE is open. Over."

 

"Dagger One Bravo, this is Dagger Actual. Confirm HAVE BLUE is open frequency. Over"

 

"Dagger Actual, this is Dagger One Bravo. Confirm HAVE BLUE is open frequency, roger request. HAVE BLUE is open. What is UAV TACMAR Infralink frequency? Request Urgent. Over."

 

"Dagger One Bravo this is Dagger Actual. Confirmation HAVE BLUE open frequency receiving standby. Confirmed HAVE BLUE open frequency. Switch to HAPPY BIRD frequency for Infralink to UAV TACMAR. Copy. Over."

 

"Roger. Dagger Actual, this is Dagger One Bravo. Confirm Frequency switch to Channel Happy Bird. Standby to receive challenge confirmation. Hold... (30 seconds). I got 32 minutes of waitin' time here. How about you over in the Flag Center? Over."

 

"Looking at receiving 14 minutes to confirmation of Signal? Sound about right? Over."

 

"Confirmed, 18 minutes on the airwaves it is. Cable is stretched and ready. Over."

 

"Dagger One Bravo, this is Dagger Actual. Confirm UAV TACMAR Infralink on Foxtrot-tree-zero-nine-dot-five. How copy? Over."

 

"Dagger Actual, this is Dagger One Bravo. Confirmed signal with UAV TACMAR on Foxtrot-tree-zero-nine-dot-five. Wait one for image cam. Over"

 

"Roger. Dagger One Bravo, this is Dagger Actual. Confirmation signal with Infralink UAV TACMAR retrieved. Waiting one hold. Over"

 

"Dagger Actual, this is Dagger One Bravo. Confirmation on signal received. Happy Day confirmation, copy. Over."

 

"Roger. Dagger One Bravo, this is Dagger Actual. Solid Copy. Out."

[timebean]

I don't quite find hard choices to be something bad for kids and teenagers, they likely won't care/consider all things involved like some players (like not everyone thinks hard with every "hard" choice) or then it teach them sth, which likely isn't that bad. However I agree that mature content isn't amount of blood and side blood to me, it's disturbing and shocking storylines and things that happen like Jack's loyalty guest that I pointed out earlier. Hearing Jack describing how the life for her was there and seeing chairs where the experiences was done to kids and so on.. it's heavy stuff even if there wasn't graphical violence so much in that guest.

It's interesting because I personally felt that the lady who originally made that point was sheltering her 15-yr old waaaaay too much.  After all, we read Lord of the Flies and Jane Eyre in the 8th grade (at least I did), and those are quite violent as well as deal with moral themes that are dark and intense, etc.

 

But then...I am 30+ years old, have no children, and had absolutely ZERO filters on games/television/conversations when I was a child.  And I am very educated, able to carry myself in a respectable manner in professional settings, have never committed a capital crime, and do my utmost not to be judgmental of others (sometimes I slip, but I am human).  But that was my life, not hers, nor the life she wants for her child.  I kinda respected the fact that she actually considered the "moral conundrums" of the material that her child was exposed to.  She was very thoughtful about it and we had an enlightening discussion (just as this thread has, surprisingly, been very diplomatic on the whole).

 

I only brought it up because I though it a valid point - filters for gore/violence/nudity cannot get rid of the fact that the nature of the material is inherently "mature".  And I thought that point was appropriate given the OP's comment about wanting stuff that was "bad for the mind" to be optional.  I was curious of the OP's opinion on that aspect of the content in those terms.

 

Of course, as pointed out above...one is more aesthetics, the other is context/content.  So perhaps that is the main issue that the OP has with it...

[Il Divo]

 

 

Of course, as pointed out above...one is more aesthetics, the other is context/content.  So perhaps that is the main issue that the OP has with it...

 

I think it's a bit confusing too. Say we are going down the "bad for the mind" route, I personally don't see how bad language is more problematic compared to some of the actions your character is allowed to take in game. 

[dreamgazer]

From my years of watching 24, they had to come up with a word to express frustration that wasn't considered a swear word and wouldn't be censored by networks.
 
Damn it, is that they decided on.

They should've gone to Kevin Sorbo for guidance. Very audience friendly.

[Panda]

I only brought it up because I though it a valid point - filters for gore/violence/nudity cannot get rid of the fact that the nature of the material is inherently "mature".  And I thought that point was appropriate given the OP's comment about wanting stuff that was "bad for the mind" to be optional.  I was curious of the OP's opinion on that aspect of the content in those terms.

 

Of course, as pointed out above...one is more aesthetics, the other is context/content.  So perhaps that is the main issue that the OP has with it...

 

Well I whole heartedly agree with this point I don't think whole game suddenly transforms for more teenager friendly by simply putting clothes on characters and make killing less bloody. Main themes of the game still remain and those are for Mass Effect adult-oriented ^^

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Not mature:

 

Spoiler

 

Tell me, what do the assets have to do with the conversation?

[Cyonan]

Not mature:

 

Spoiler

 

Tell me, what do the assets have to do with the conversation?

 

One does not simply question the camera's obsession with Miranda's butt.

 

I'm pretty sure the camera wanted to romance her more than I did.

[dreamgazer]

Not mature:
 

Spoiler

 
Tell me, what do the assets have to do with the conversation?

Sorry, you were saying something?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Ah, yes, I was trying to forget that one. And that rack *whistle* and you should have seen it even before she hit matriarch stage!

[N7M]

Not mature:

 

Spoiler

 

Tell me, what do the assets have to do with the conversation?

 

It may have been a parody of the male gaze suggesting how she felt talking to Shep at those moments.

 

Or not. 

[Cyonan]

Sorry, you were saying something?

 

I don't think Kasumi was paying attention either.

 

Spoiler