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An Open Letter to Bioware Regarding Explicit Content


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#51
izmirtheastarach

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 I think what he's implying is that The Witcher series fully embraces its mature rating in all aspects. Whereas Bioware tends to shy away from it in certain aspects. Not that it's absolutely necessary to show nudity. Just, if you're gonna go that route, do it right. 

The ratings are such hilarious nonsense to begin with. At least with the Witcher, you know that you are playing a game that has been designed from the ground up for adults. Same with HBO content. The issue here is developers trying to straddle the line between what is acceptable for tweens and teens, and yet still make a product that appeals to an adult looking for something of interest to them.



#52
agonis

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The Witcher series has a "mature" rating

 

The Witcher series has graphic nudity.

 

Therefore, a game needs graphic nudity in order to be "mature"  ;)

 

*sarcasm*

Yes, of course. Never mind the war, the executions, the rape, the prosecution of minorities, the torture, the famine, the racism... I´m sure I missed something.

 

But nooo, it must be the sex scenes. Because Geralt´s ass and his affairs is what makes the game mature!

 

Ahh, now I´m ranting, I have to calm down.


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#53
izmirtheastarach

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*sarcasm*

Yes, of course. Never mind the war, the executions, the rape, the prosecution of minorities, the torture, the famine, the racism... I´m sure I missed something.

 

But nooo, it must be the sex scenes. Because Geralt´s ass and his affairs is what makes the game mature!

 

Ahh, now I´m ranting, I have to calm down.

 

Don't calm down. It's teh internet. I came in here for the first time in years to stir things up. 

 

But seriously, I see your point.


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#54
GaroTD

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Im fine with that. I mean it would be cool if younger person or someone who just don't like seeing gore etc has an option to turn these things off. But I doubt that will happen.

#55
Kappa Neko

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DAO had a "persistent gore" toggle as well.

Oh, I don't recall... I only remember DA2 so vividly because the gore was so over the top it killed immersion for me. That and rogue turning into a circus act. :blink:

(Ah, fond memories though! I need to replay... ^_^ )


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#56
Amplitudelol

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*sarcasm*

Yes, of course. Never mind the war, the executions, the rape, the prosecution of minorities, the torture, the famine, the racism... I´m sure I missed something.

 

But nooo, it must be the sex scenes. Because Geralt´s ass and his affairs is what makes the game mature!

 

Ahh, now I´m ranting, I have to calm down.

 

Seriously man! Watch the language! The OP will have a nervous breakdown because of you.



#57
Undead Han

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The ratings are such hilarious nonsense to begin with. At least with the Witcher, you know that you are playing a game that has been designed from the ground up for adults. Same with HBO content. The issue here is developers trying to straddle the line between what is acceptable for tweens and teens, and yet still make a product that appeals to an adult looking for something of interest to them.

 

I'm not sure why they bother.

 

The massive popularity of the GTA series is evidence that they don't need to play it safe in order to be a financial success. 


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#58
Mcfly616

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Imagine if blu rays had this feature. "Oh, you wanna watch Kill Bill, but don't like the gore, language or rape? Sure just click the handy dandy censored version on the main menu."

 

 

 

Or just go watch another movie that doesn't include all of these things you're uncomfortable with.


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#59
agonis

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HBO isn't making children's entertainment in the first place, its always funny when people point to it as a bad influence ^_^

Of course not.

 

Manson said this after he got nearly no reaction of his audience during a concert. He was kind of surprised that even he wasn´t enough anymore to shock anybody. (see the second sentence of the quote)

 

We became greedy for violence in the past 5-10 years and the recent TV shows meet this demand.


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#60
themikefest

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I always thought it a bit ridiculous that some people were offended by Liara's naked bum but not some mook getting his head blown to pieces with a sniper rifle.

The problem with that is they show some ugly alien naked,  and not the human as well


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#61
izmirtheastarach

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I'm not sure why they bother.

 

The massive popularity of the GTA series is evidence that they don't need to play it safe in order to be a financial success. 

Because the entire job of marketing people is to try and make things appeal to people who they will never appeal to. So they stretch things one way, and the straddle every line they can, all in the name of making more money. God forbid you make a product to appeal to its actual audience. No no, sir. We already got THOSE people. What we need is the GENERAL audience. That's where the money is. Lets dumb things down till everyone in the world likes our product. Then we'll really have something.


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#62
Il Divo

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Gotta love Kill Bill. Between both parts, I'd say it's probably my top action movie. 



#63
dreamgazer

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Imagine if blu rays had this feature. "Oh, you wanna watch Kill Bill, but don't like the gore, language or rape? Sure just click the handy dandy censored version on the main menu."


AKA: "Edited for Television".

#64
izmirtheastarach

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Imagine if blu rays had this feature. "Oh, you wanna watch Kill Bill, but don't like the gore, language or rape? Sure just click the handy dandy censored version on the main menu."

 

 

 

Or just go watch another movie that doesn't include all of these things you're uncomfortable with.

Or wait till it comes on local TV and watch the horrendous TV edit.

 

EDIT: Hah! dreamgazer and I hit that one simultaneously.



#65
Mcfly616

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Of course not.

 

Manson said this after he got nearly no reaction of his audience during a concert. He was kind of surprised that even he wasn´t enough anymore to shock anybody. (see the second sentence of the quote)

 

We became greedy for violence in the past 5-10 years and the recent TV shows meet this demand.

 To be fair, A Song of Ice and Fire book series began in the mid-90's. The show was not created to meet a demand for violence. Though, I'm not saying that other crap shows weren't.



#66
agonis

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Seriously man! Watch the language! The OP will have a nervous breakdown because of you.

If you came here to mock the OP don´t look at me for support.

 

I find your comments immature.


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#67
izmirtheastarach

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 To be fair, A Song of Ice and Fire book series began in the mid-90's. The show was not created to meet a demand for violence. Though, I'm not saying that other crap shows weren't.

Cough cough Spartacus?


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#68
Cyonan

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The ratings are such hilarious nonsense to begin with. At least with the Witcher, you know that you are playing a game that has been designed from the ground up for adults. Same with HBO content. The issue here is developers trying to straddle the line between what is acceptable for tweens and teens, and yet still make a product that appeals to an adult looking for something of interest to them.

 

The game is very clearly marked as mature. That you think the ESRB ratings are nonsense is irrelevant.

 

BioWare is making a game which is designed for a 17+ audience, but of course your average 14 year old boy is going to be interested in a game which has violence and ****** in it.

 

Edit: Really BioWare? You'll let me say boobs but not the 4 letter word for them? Kind of ironic, given this thread.


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#69
Mcfly616

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AKA: "Edited for Television".

 mhmm. Too bad gaming doesn't have their own equivalent. Maybe OP should be advocating for that instead of asking the devs to quell their vision and creativity.



#70
izmirtheastarach

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The game is very clearly marked as mature. That you think the ESRB ratings are nonsense is irrelevant.

 

BioWare is making a game which is designed for a 17+ audience, but of course your average 14 year old boy is going to be interested in a game which has violence and ****** in it.

 

Edit: Really BioWare? You'll let me say boobs but not the 4 letter word for them? Kind of ironic, given this thread.

I don't have a clear read on the through-line of your argument. All opinions are in the end irrelevant. That said, I don't disagree with the thing you said here, so I don't know how to argue with you. It's very upsetting.



#71
Undead Han

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The problem with that is they show some ugly alien naked,  and not the human as well

 

What game did you play? Ashley was also partially nude in her romance scene in ME1. 


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#72
themikefest

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What game did you play? Ashley was also partially nude in her romance scene in ME1. 

I'm referring to ME3.



#73
Battlebloodmage

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It's these kinds of statements that sometimes get under my skin. As I mentioned in the letter, I don't need to explain my reasons for them to be valid, but I will explain a bit here on this issue. Can I "handle" seeing a naked person? Can I "handle" seeing gore or hearing strong language? Of course I can. I'm not going to flip out and start crying and roll myself up into a little ball at the first explict thing, but what so many people don't seem to understand is that It's not a question of being able to "handle" it,  it's about what I think is good for my mind. Can you "handle" eating a bunch of unhealthy food? Sure you can, but there are consequences. I try to be careful with what I feed my mind. I try to avoid gore, language, and sexual nudity. Not because I can't handle them, but because I don't believe they are good for me. If you think they are good for you, or not harmful, that's fine. That's your call. I'm not here to tell you what media to view. But I know that I want to keep them out. Of course I already have a choice, the choice to not play, but I'm hoping for a third option. As a paying fan of the series I don't think it's wrong for me to ask for an option to make the games more acessible to me without infringing on anyone else's play experience. I have never understood why such queries make so many gamers angry. You said "don't dilude it," and that's fine. I'm not trying to change what you will see and hear when you play the game. If the toggles are added, you don't have to use them.

 

Just don't play it seem like that best option. You should know what you're getting yourself into before you pick up a product. You played it, you know that there are warning on the label about what to expect. At the end of the day, it just seems like wasted resource to appeal to very few players. I would prefer those resources to go elsewhere.

 

Funny, a game I've been playing, Life is Strange, is rated M, and has no nudity, even with a shower scene for the (female) protagonist.  Nothing below the shoulders was shown.

 

There is violence, even shootings, but not a whole lot of blood.  Certainly no exploding heads.

 

There is a considerable amount of foul language, yes.  And a considerable amount of mature subject matter  (drug abuse, rape, suicide, etc)

 

SO yeah, just because there's an "M" stamped on a game, doesn't mean it's necessarily "Mature"

So teens should play games about rapes, suicides, drug abuses, and violence with blood in it?

Most teen games have to censor out the blood, that's strangely make a difference. In T-rated games, when they get impaled, no blood is being shown. Violence is T-rated, foul languages, touchy subjects, blood are what make it M-rated. I'm not sure what you're arguing about here. There is a standard being set about what being considered Mature, and it's not what you or I consider, but what the ratings board consider, and the threshold is usually lower. Moreover, we are so desentisized to what being considered mature due to the market being oversaturated with them. Back in the day, it would be a huge deal to see the kind of stuffs we see today.


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#74
Il Divo

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Honestly, if people here want to have a talk about stifling creativity, we're going to be talking about more than just bad language. Anytime we request a feature? That requires resources. And those resources inevitably come at the expense of something else. Anytime Bioware listens to X suggestion from the fans, someone's creativity is being inhibited. 


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#75
Undead Han

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I'm referring to ME3.

 

You're wrong there as well.

 

Liara's character model was nude but it was completely obscured by shadows and lighting tricks.  The only nudity in ME3 was with the Banshees. Bioware got gunshy after the ME1 controversy and the only nudity portrayed in the series after that was of the body horror variety.


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