...the optional nature in theory could allow for more graphic content because you could now argue we can avoid exposure if we like, but that also means more resources to code. You're not just coding the game for the explicit content toggle. Each instance of explicit content requires more resources to implement. A game with 1 swear word for example would cost much less than a game with 100 swear words using this feature.
Then it comes down to is it worth the money. Since Mass Effect applies graphic content sparingly I think it could be made to be worth the money. If used in a way to allow the game designers the resource of more graphic contents while allowing better control options over profanity/gore/nudity for the player.
Besides, any filter doesn't have to be a hardlock choice of the content toggles. Since you mentioned swearing let's take Zero as an example. Her profanity content was already censored for a general audience. Could development resources been allocated for Shepard to have influenced Jacks speech? Some would not care, it's war there's bigger concerns. Some might want to put Jack out the airlock for interjecting with swears or not articulating her thoughts. RPG conversations initiated with Kelly on how to deal with Jack's swearing would have been fun. Like adjusting the universal translator to let Zero only hear swearing when people talk. The hypothetical result being more or less retrained swearing occurrences in the game.
It's development resources that could be well spent opening up the games experience for everyone.
Then it comes down to is it worth the money. Since Mass Effect applies graphic content sparingly I think it could be made to be worth the money. If used in a way to allow the game designers the resource of more graphic contents while allowing better control options over profanity/gore/nudity for the player.
Besides, any filter doesn't have to be a hardlock choice of the content toggles. Since you mentioned swearing let's take Zero as an example. Her profanity content was already censored for a general audience. Could development resources been allocated for Shepard to have influenced Jacks speech? Some would not care, it's war there's bigger concerns. Some might want to put Jack out the airlock for interjecting with swears or not articulating her thoughts. RPG conversations initiated with Kelly on how to deal with Jack's swearing would have been fun. Like adjusting the universal translator to let Zero only hear swearing when people talk. The hypothetical result being more or less retrained swearing occurrences in the game.
It's development resources that could be well spent opening up the games experience for everyone.
In theory, sure. But again: let's consider some other factors. You used a Jack example as someone who swears a lot (and she does). Is that going to be one of our fundamental role-playing options in the future of Bioware games? Are we going to devote resources consistently to allow the PC to prevent his companions from swearing? Maybe if this is an ME:A specific request, it could work. But I think the implication is that the OP (and others) would like consistent options to avoid swearing in Bioware games.
Even that aside, the scene would have to be made believable. The point of a toggle is to avoid all swearing, at least as the OP indicates. It's possible to do that, but again that kind of character transformation probably wouldn't work instantly.
Absolutely nothing wrong if you could see yourself consistently enjoying that. Me, personally, I think that would get old. It would also require more resources for writing dialogue/VA/cut-scenes depending on how in depth they'd decide to go. Between the two, I would probably end up preferring the toggle.
this isn't a matter of agreement, its not gonna be free to do it
I agree that it isn't free, but I don't think the cost would be that exceptional. No need for extra voice-acting recording sessions, no need for creating an entirely new scene, simply adding the option to have the screen fade to black, for those who want it or don't want to view the material is not something I'd see as extraneous.
But the same token, having read the Bioware Employee's note on this kind of content, I also fully get where they are coming from and am happy to let them design the game how they choose.
I simply would not be opposed to such a filter existing.
You're living in a fantasy world if you truly think (especially after one of the Bioware staff talked about expense breakdowns) that such filters and toggles could be implemented without any extra resources and without affecting the quality of the game, because creative content is *always* limited by the available resources of time, medium, and money. You must take away from one aspect to pay for another, extra resources do not magically appear simply because one wishes it were so.
Two things, one, I didn't see the Bioware employee's post before I wrote that, and two, simply adding a filter to allow one scene to fade to black does not take away from the resources it takes to make the scene in the first place.
True, it's not free, and I did not mean to say that adding it would not have any cost at all, as those who quoted me seem to take away from what I was saying, but rather, but rather the cost to make such a filter at most would probably cost just as much as it would be to increase or decrease the difficulty. It's not adding content, requiring extra time for the graphic artists to make new scenes, or the voice actors to record a whole new line and take extra time in the studio, but neither is it the expense others are making it out to be.
Yes, I read the breakdown of content, and I fully endorse Bioware's right and capability to make whatever game they want to make, and include what content they want to include. As a gamer, I applaud the inclusion of all options, and having the option to have those scenes fade to black, or to view them, is not something I think is that big a deal. Does Bioware have to do it? No. Does any other gaming company? No. Will it affect the number of people buying the game if it's included or not? Probably not, or at least not in significant numbers.
Does that detract the reasons, varied as they may be, from the people who want the filter in place? No. It simply means that most people would need to go elsewhere for their gaming or simply deal with the content, and there's nothing wrong with that either.
As a gamer, as I said earlier, I enjoy having the increase of options. But also as a gamer, my priority is too have a good time playing the game. Like I'll happily place Assassin's Creed, but I have to hide the game when I'm not playing it so my 10 year old cousin wouldn't play it. The violence, language and gore was not a game I was comfortable letting him play, but I had other games that I was happy to let him play.
If Bioware is going to focus their efforts on making a high quality game then I fully support that. If they can do that AND add a filter for those who want it, I support that as well. If they don't add one but still make a high quality game then I don't care, but I do support the option, should it exist.
In theory, sure. But again: let's consider some other factors. You used a Jack example as someone who swears a lot (and she does). Is that going to be one of our fundamental role-playing options in the future of Bioware games? Are we going to devote resources consistently to allow the PC to prevent his companions from swearing? Maybe if this is an ME:A specific request, it could work. But I think the implication is that the OP (and others) would like consistent options to avoid swearing in Bioware games.
Even that aside, the scene would have to be made believable. The point of a toggle is to avoid all swearing, at least as the OP indicates. It's possible to do that, but again that kind of character transformation probably wouldn't work instantly.
Absolutely nothing wrong if you could see yourself consistently enjoying that. Me, personally, I think that would inevitably get old. It would also require more resources for writing dialogue/VA/cut-scenes depending on how in depth they'd decide to go. Between the two, I would probably end up preferring the toggle.
This example of Jack was meant to showcase how swearing could be managed in a game context with and without content filters activated. While allowing for an expanded spectrum of game content tailored to the player. It was not meant as an example of a static character service or plot device to replace any toggle. This can be created to fit the world and circumstances.
Alright, let me ask a question to those who are supporting the toggle in regards to the sex scenes; in this case we'll be going with dragonflight's idea of a toggle that just turns the sex scenes into fade-to-black affairs where, when you toggle it, you don't get any of the scene that includes nudity.
Now, let's assume they do something like Cassandra's scene in DAI where the scene that includes nudity involves a lot of heart to heart discussion, character development, and the big moment where the characters tell each other they love one another; i.e., some of the more important aspects of the romance arc.
If you have the toggle on, you don't get that.
Is that a worthy trade off for you? Is not seeing nudity worth missing out on major parts of the romantic arc?
Maybe if this is an ME:A specific request, it could work. But I think the implication is that the OP (and others) would like consistent options to avoid swearing in Bioware games.
My support of this is to Mass Effect specifically.
Alright, let me ask a question to those who are supporting the toggle in regards to the sex scenes; in this case we'll be going with dragonflight's idea of a toggle that just turns the sex scenes into fade-to-black affairs where, when you toggle it, you don't get any of the scene that includes nudity.
Now, let's assume they do something like Cassandra's scene in DAI where the scene that includes nudity involves a lot of heart to heart discussion, character development, and the big moment where the characters tell each other they love one another; i.e., some of the more important aspects of the romance arc.
If you have the toggle on, you don't get that.
Is that a worthy trade off for you? Is not seeing nudity worth missing out on major parts of the romantic arc?
In this case, no, because it goes heavily with the romance and character arc.
But if we had something like ME1, you would lose nothing in a fade to black.
Now, it's not my place to tell Bioware how to develop their games, what content to include and what content not to. Rather, I simply think that if it's logical and nothing would be lost, then why not?
In this case, no, because it goes heavily with the romance and character arc.
But if we had something like ME1, you would lose nothing in a fade to black.
Now, it's not my place to tell Bioware how to develop their games, what content to include and what content not to. Rather, I simply think that if it's logical and nothing would be lost, then why not?
But then you're in a position where you aren't asking for a toggle, you (general you) are asking the devs to remove any nudity from all of the sex scenes. So the players who enjoy that aspect are going to be left unsatisfied with the result, so it would be a case of asking the devs to cater to your preferances over another group of players.
In this case, no, because it goes heavily with the romance and character arc.
But if we had something like ME1, you would lose nothing in a fade to black.
Now, it's not my place to tell Bioware how to develop their games, what content to include and what content not to. Rather, I simply think that if it's logical and nothing would be lost, then why not?
Thing is we can't know for sure how they want to write the scenes in question. They might go the ME1 route in which chase the scenes would be skippable anyway, or they could go something closer to DAI where the scenes might include dialogue options and significant elements of the story. And if it's the latter, including this option would take away from the gaming experience.
They're on record stating that they're not using Inquisition as a "template", but I really don't see them regressing to ME1's structure in this department.
They're on record stating that they're not using Inquisition as a "template", but I really don't see them regressing to ME1's structure in this department.
They meant for the entire game, since that was a response to "Will MEA be DAI in space?". They will most likely have some formats from DAI in MEA.
Well, they already did something similar to DAI with ME3 where the romance scenes were more than just a twenty second clip of nude bodies rolling around on a bed with nipples covered by a strategically placed arm.
Honestly I think the DAI scenes are largely what ME3 scenes should have been; there's story and character development there, but it feels more natural, intimate, and passionate because the characters aren't showering in their bra and panties.
No, I am never letting that go.
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Well, they already did something similar to DAI with ME3 where the romance scenes were more than just a twenty second clip of nude bodies rolling around on a bed with nipples covered by a strategically placed arm.
Honestly I think the DAI scenes are largely what ME3 scenes should have been; there's story and character development there, but it feels more natural, intimate, and passionate because the characters aren't showering in their bra and panties.
No, I am never letting that go.
Shame, too, because that came close to being a really solid romance sequence. Like that, it's remembered for something else.
But then you're in a position where you aren't asking for a toggle, you (general you) are asking the devs to remove any nudity from all of the sex scenes. So the players who enjoy that aspect are going to be left unsatisfied with the result, so it would be a case of asking the devs to cater to your preferances over another group of players.
True, but if the game developers developed the game that way, it's merely an option.
I'm not interested in telling them HOW to develop their games. Merely stating the opinion that if the option is viable and the resources are available, then go ahead.
As I said earlier. As a gamer, I'm more interested in having fun playing the game, and I look for quality story, memorable characters, immersive lore and a great user-interface in playing the game more than I'm interested in a toggle for filtering out part of the game.
I don't know how the Andromeda team will handle it, nor do I care so long as the story, characters and writing works, with gameplay as a very close second place issue in regards to my priority in the game.
The filter is nothing more than a side-dressing to what will hopefully be a delicious entree. Get my meaning?
They meant for the entire game, since that was a response to "Will MEA be DAI in space?". They will most likely have some formats from DAI in MEA.
I agree, and I'm pretty sure romance will be one of those areas.
Wouldn't be surprised to see player-sexual romances in Andromeda, though. That's an area in the game where they'll probably avoid fan backlash and just try to"satisfy" everyone with the easier route.
Well I read the whole letter, just saying before I start on.
I have to agree to some point with the OP, and I don't mind such option as long as it OPTIONAL! I would hate to be forced out of my enjoyment in the game. Speaking strictly for language, nudity and sexual stuffs as a whole. Being on that point I would like to suggest something opposite... an option to hide the underwear and actually see the genitals of the characters if you pick that option, which should be also OPTIONAL! So people can disable it if they don't like it. I suggest bioware to push this further on and embrace fully the M Rate... for several reasons... because this way they will get a lot bigger fanbase and actually be the very first game in which genitals will be shown completely. I think we are matured enough to admit that such option should happen and the only one who can do it right in my personal opinion is Bioware... and no one else. Because they are the only capable company to mix in-depth story, with in-depth romance and detailed sexual nudity and interaction, regardless of gender or sexuality.
In some cases, I believe the use of random genitalia would make the game less mature.
Truth be told, I'm not sure the community is mature enough to handle that. Some of the players are surprisingly young (under the 17+ the game is rated for), and there are plenty who behave as if they were well below the game's age rating.
Even if you argue that the community is mature enough, there might be ratings issues unless full frontal nudity was limited to female characters only. Full frontal male nudity tends to get people offended, except when it appears in pornography. I don't want to see Mass Effect or Dragon Age suddenly be considered Adult Only games that you can only buy from behind the counter and only in certain stores (much like actual porn games). Not saying that's good or right; it's a double standard and I don't like it. But people do for some reason take offense at the thought of being shown man-bits.
If the ratings didn't get pushed above Mature, the animations etc. are poor enough that it would basically be really bad digital pornography if genitalia were shown. I play games for other reasons; I don't need or want porn in my games.
There's also the idea that it would feel like they were showing genitalia for shock value, which I believe is a large part of what is done with the Witcher series and how they handle sex. I'm aware that sex is treated differently in European countries than it is in the U.S., but at a certain point you just end up with bad porn, and all that does is scare people over at Fox News.
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There's also the idea that it would feel like they were showing genitalia for shock value, which I believe is a large part of what is done with the Witcher series and how they handle sex. I'm aware that sex is treated differently in European countries than it is in the U.S., but at a certain point you just end up with bad porn, and all that does is scare people over at Fox News.
I'm from a european Country and I fully support this Message.
I recently posted this on my blog, and I wanted to share it here as well.
An Open Letter to Bioware,
Your games (specifically the Mass Effect and Dragon Age Trilogies) are among the finest action-RPGs on the market. In anticipation of Mass Effect: Andromeda, I feel compelled to write openly on behalf of a minority demographic your team may not be aware of: players who love the story and action elements of the game but don’t care for the explicit content. I’m asking on behalf of myself and others for you to add a feature in the settings of your future titles allowing players to set which explicit content they want displayed in the games—namely language, gore, and sexual content.
Please understand that I am not advocating censorship, but merely choice. I am a writer myself, and I know I don’t want anyone telling me what is or isn’t appropriate for my own work. Instead of trying to control the content you put in your games, I’m simply asking for the choice to customize my experience for maximum enjoyment. Videogames have the unique providence of being a medium built around individuals. I can already control gaming aspects like difficulty, subtitles, and graphic and auditory settings, so why not what explicit content I see and hear? Choice is a key aspect of Bioware games, it is one of the attributes that truly make your titles stand out, so why not extend that choice further into the real world, embracing players who want to play the games without the explicit aspects? Of course those of us who want to limit our own exposure to explicit content already have a choice: to not play. But I hope you’ll give us a third option: to play without the content we hope to avoid in media.
I have seen countless forum threads where gamers have asked if X game has an option to turn off explicit content, and the answer is almost always the same: no such option exists. The replies on these threads then usually go on to mock the gamer in question, attempting to emasculate the player (regardless of whether they are male or female), telling them they need to “grow a pair” etc. I don’t see any need for this kind of mentality in the gaming world. Bioware games champion the fact that different kinds of people, leaders, and problem-solvers all have a place, e.g. you can be a renegade, you can be a paragon, etc. I don’t think Bioware needs to limit its fan base to those who enjoy explicit content. My reasons for wanting to limit my own exposure to explicit content are personal. Strangers don’t have to understand my reasons for them to be valid.
I know I’m not the only one with concerns about what kind of content will be in ME:A. The first Mass Effect game had no strong language, very little gore, and very brief partial nudity, while the most recent Mass Effect game had strong language at times, gore in the form of heads exploding when sniped, and the most recent Dragon Age game had much more explicit nudity. It leads some of us to wonder what the future holds if in such a short period of time this much new explicit content is introduced.
Let me reiterate my stance that this is a personal choice. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong for any other person to view or enjoy this content, but that as for myself I know I want to avoid it, and that I can enjoy your future action-RPGs much more without it. I hope I am not opening myself and others up to derision by asking for this concession, but I hope you will seriously consider implementing three separate toggles in the settings of your future games to control language, gore, and sexuality. Some games have given these options in the past, but I challenge you to set an industry standard by doing this with your A-list, flagship titles. Show that you care about all of your fans, not just the majority, and other companies will follow.
Regardless of what you choose to do, please accept my gratitude for making some of the best games I’ve ever played.
OK here are my 2 cents: I will try to break them down by catorgory:
Gore:
Most of the "gore" I've seen in The Mass Effect Trilogy is actually pretty tame not to say there isn't any but maybe me and you have different definations I haven;t seen any gun battle as gory as the ones in the last Rambo (which made gag and I'm a 90s teen so I grew up on violent and gory action movies) or even the first Evil Dead movie. Now Dragon Age are pretty gory (or at the very least bloody) and BioWare has made the first 2 where you can turn down the blood and gore.
Nudity:
To be fair in both Liara and Ashley's sex scenes there is brief nudity which most a shot of their butts and that is pretty much it. ME2 and ME3 didn't even have any nudity.except maybe a quick shot of Liara's butt. DA:O and DA2 didn't even that! All the sex scenes that aren't modded for the PC never had any nudity! NONE!
DA:I is actually the first BIoWare game to actually have nudity of nipples and butts and even then it's not in all the romances that I know have it is Sera, Dorian, Cassandra, and maybe Iron Bull but what I've seen he's debatable. Cullen only shows his bare chest and legs nothing that you can't find in hundreds of PG-13 movies and Teen Rated video games.
Sexual Content:
If people talking about sex, sexual acts, partners then maybe you should find another game BioWare games have always characters talking about their sex lives is pretty common. If you're talking about more graphic sex scenes even in DA:I Sera's romance is most graphic and again all the nudity is after the sex scene is over and is basically pillow talk. The thing with Sera is this: Is she coming up after having completed sex on her lover or has she just finished reading what the Inquisitor shaved in her pubic hair? Or is the fact that Sera and Dorian are homosexual characters and some people still can't handle it?
Lanaguge:
This one I don't see how BioWare could make a game where characters swear less. Because of the time and money that goes into it. But I would also point out that characters like Jack, Sera, and Isabela that swear more than most both Jack and Sera are optional characters you don't have to recurit them to your party and even if you do: don't use them. Don't talk to them. Don't do anymore than you have to.
For me the only reason I'm against male full frontal in games is that outside of fully pre-rendered animation, I don't think the technology is there to show it without it being comically bad. There's clipping issues, if nothing else.
That being said, as I've said previously, I don't particularly care if Bioware includes nudity or not in the grand scheme of things. I just think that if they write a scene where nudity is appropriate, they shouldn't shy away from showing it as there's nothing inherently wrong with nudity. It can get gratuitous, excessive, and exploitative; I'm not denying that. But when used properly and logically, I don't see anything wrong with it and I think it has plenty of artistic value.
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Shame, too, because that came close to being a really solid romance sequence. Like that, it's remembered for something else.
And that's why I keep harping on it. It really was one of the better romance sequences in the Bioware games, but because some people have such hang-ups over the human body, it just comes off as ridiculous.
I mean, at least with DAO's romance scenes they were all together crap; generic, weird blocking, ridiculous music. Fact that the characters were wearing such horrible underwear that, in the case of Morrigan, magically appeared after she took off her robes, while carrying the hilarious implication that she undressed only to put a bra on, didn't ruin it because the whole thing was comical already.
With the ME3 scenes, you had some genuinely good scenes that had that one thing wrong with them that made them feel unnatural.
And that's why I keep harping on it. It really was one of the better romance sequences in the Bioware games, but because some people have such hang-ups over the human body, it just comes off as ridiculous.
I mean, at least with DAO's romance scenes they were all together crap; generic, weird blocking, ridiculous music. Fact that the characters were wearing such horrible underwear that, in the case of Morrigan, magically appeared after she took off her robes, while carrying the hilarious implication that she undressed only to put a bra on, didn't ruin it because the whole thing was comical already.
With the ME3 scenes, you had some genuinely good scenes that had that one thing wrong with them that made them feel unnatural.
Hey now. The statement you made about DA:Os romance scene is just not true.
The music wasn't ridiculous. The visuals made it so, but on it's own, the music was the only good part.
Have a toggle for people who want the option. Personally, I won't use it, it doesn't bother me, but someone else might. All this option will have to do is to cause fade to black during scenes with explicit content. Easy to make and caters to a larger audience.
The music wasn't bad in and of itself, but it was poorly placed. It didn't fit what was going on in the scenes.
Fact that it was the same music for all the LI's also hurt. One thing about DA2 that I liked was that they had different music for each of the LI's that fit the mood of their scenes better.
Have a toggle for people who want the option. Personally, I won't use it, it doesn't bother me, but someone else might. All this option will have to do is to cause fade to black during scenes with explicit content. Easy to make and caters to a larger audience.
Again, though, this only works if the scenes with explicit content have nothing else in them. If you have a scene that contains nudity but also has dialogue and character development in it, then a feature like this would cut out that.
Of course, we can't say for sure which way Bioware'll go with the love scenes; just because this is the direction the Dragon Age team seems to be going doesn't mean the Mass Effect team will follow suit. But if they did go in the direction of the "explicit" scenes having dialogue and story development in them, then that would be a reason not to include this feature.
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