3411 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Then don't pursue Romances or Love Interests.  You don't want to see nudity...  Problem solved.

Must be new to the thread; already do. Thanks for the chat....

[Elhanan]

Oh please, spare me your (rather ironic) moral lecture. Some, I dare say most, people aren't bothered by nudity because they recognize that nudity isn't something to be uptight about. Especially people like me, who have a medical background. The body is a beautiful thing, and I quite frankly find western societies' obsession with scandalizing nudity to be rather sad and pathetic.

I find it particularly amusing that you chose to make that comment after an entire paragraph where I elaborated on yes, I agree that desensitization occurs as I have experienced it myself with regards to gore and death. It happens naturally, as a coping mechanism.

But I find the people who object to it in games and media for that reason to be particularly naive. Sorry, but it's true.

And this reads a bit like prejudice....

[FKA_Servo]

Yes, I can think of plenty of other reasons.

Desensitization is one.

I remember the first time I ever saw Billy Jack - I was deeply, passionately angry about the way the little girl was treated by some townspeople - and later, the rape of Jean. I look at it today and wonder how it ever stirred any kind of emotion in me.

The HBO series Oz can serve as another example. It seemed really raw and shocking at first, but after more and more exposure to such material, the emotional impact lessens.

As for language - I use my share of raw language, but I think people sometimes forget what the words actually mean. I happen to feel that words and how we express ourselves is important.

I also remember the first time I heard Howard Stern on the radio. Nothing shocks me anymore, and I'm not convinced that that's a good thing. I don't want all of my senses so completely scabbed over that nothing has any emotional impact on me. So I sometimes choose to limit my exposure to such content, so that when I do choose to consume certain kinds of content, it can actually have an emotional impact.

I can appreciate this perspective. And I don't disagree with it by any means, although (if I may flatter myself), I'm not sure I feel quite so jaded as you seem to. The tough stuff usually has its intended effect on me.

I like what you have to say about language - I heartily agree, though my takeaway might be slightly differently than yours. I like words - all words - a lot. I don't spend all day cursing like a sailor, but I especially dig the utility of a well chosen, well directed curse. Sometimes, you just need to say precisely what you mean, with precisely the right word.

And yeah - it can be awkward and misused (any GTA game, Aria in ME2), but it can also be a powerful tool for characterization (Zaeed being my favorite example - he's such a great character, but what makes him memorable and amusing is his coarseness and penchant for cursing and blasphemy. Take it away, he's nothing. He's boring). Since the technical options to soften that stuff seem flatly unrealistic - and a smart mouthed character is far more likely to be encountered over the course of less optional gameplay scenarios - the prospect of it being scrapped for simplicity's sake gets my jimmies rustled and my hackles raised. It doesn't help that I sincerely can't wrap my head around some posters' complete unwillingness to put up with even a single instance of it. But, whatever. You do you, and all that.

Reflecting, I think I've approached the topic, and some posters herein, with an excess of fervor and snark, so I want to apologize to Elhanan and the OP.

I'll reiterate that I'm completely on board with the notion that content like this can be optional insofar as it can be largely avoidable, if one so chooses. Cutscenes should be skippable anyway, and optional romance subplots would be the logical place to stick any sexual content.

[Pasquale1234]

Oh please, spare me your (rather ironic) moral lecture.

Hardly a lecture, moral or otherwise. It's strange that you keep assuming any of this has anything to do with morality.
 

Some, I dare say most, people aren't bothered by nudity because they recognize that nudity isn't something to be uptight about. Especially people like me, who have a medical background. The body is a beautiful thing, and I quite frankly find western societies' obsession with scandalizing nudity to be rather sad and pathetic.

You apparently assumed my comment had to do with nudity. That wasn't the intent.
 

I find it particularly amusing that you chose to make that comment after an entire paragraph where I elaborated on yes, I agree that desensitization occurs as I have experienced it myself with regards to gore and death. It happens naturally, as a coping mechanism.

Well, at least you understand that desensitization is a real thing. That's progress, I guess.
 

But I find the people who object to it in games and media for that reason to be particularly naive. Sorry, but it's true.

Of course, you'd have to fully know someone's reasons for the entertainment choices they make in order to make any such judgements about them. But don't let that stop you.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

Must be new to the thread; already do. Thanks for the chat....

I've been posting since thread started, you seem like your #$%-stirring despite all the cogent arguments that have already been made and despite the fact you admitted you skipped the romance/nudity material.  Why are you even here posting if it's an non-issue for you?

[Elhanan]

I've been posting since thread started, you seem like your #$%-stirring despite all the cogent arguments that have already been made and despite the fact you admitted you skipped the romance/nudity material.  Why are you even here posting if it's an non-issue for you?

Because I support the suggestion for an Option to further improve Player control. A Toggle might do that.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

Player Control begins and ends with the decision to open your wallet.  Don't buy a Rated-M-For-Mature game if you have issues with the themes, language, or nudity.  It's that simple. 

 

A Dev has already said it's not cost-efficient to make a filter, and I suspect that it would be viewed as compromising their artistic integrity if they did self-censor, even through a toggle.

 

This thread has outlived its usefulness and people are just repeating themselves when it's obvious there's a non-issue here.

[FKA_Servo]

Off topic, but wut

 

Spoiler

 

I have my finger on the pulse of the community.

[Charoleia]

So, my opinion is absolutely not needed, that is why it is necessary ^^

 

My first reaction when I read the OP was like many others : "Why does he/she play the game if he/she dislikes it ?"

 

I am one of those people that think there isn't enough swearing and nudity in Bioware games.

And if I laughed my a** off at certain suggestions like the SSV Bonobo where everyone would be jiggling their junk while swearing like flippin dockers  (© Maurice Moss) , that's not what I'm hoping for either for the next installments ^^

 

Like it was said by others, I always felt like most of the characters in the ME universe were way too polite for a military environment.

In the DA universe, I didn't expect to hear 90% of the population talking like a BBC news anchor. And before any of you accuse me of anything, yeah, I know I exaggerate

But apart from certain characters that are supposed to be literate, I expected more people talking like Bull and Sera (and both of them are in Inquisition). You know, like actual, real people, as Sera would say. Or maybe is it a cultural thing. Maybe I should say like actual, real french people. We do swear a lot in France ^^

 

And about nudity : there was no Victoria Secret in the Middle Age >_< If some kind of smock/hose are too complicated to design, which I am certain they are, just make them naked and angle the camera so we don't see anything maybe ? But those bras/panties and whatever you call the piece of garment men wore in DA:O (which always reminds me of the Full Monty last scene) just make my eyes bleed...

 

So that got me thinking...

What if someone told me "you don't like DA:O underwear ? Then why do you play ?", or "Ash doesn't swear enough ? Stop playing Mass Effect then".

My initial reaction would be, like Sheldon, wishing people could have a chip in their head that would explode when they say something stupid.

I know people said it earlier "why should the OP not play the game even though he/she likes 95% of it ?" but maybe those people were thought to defend/agree with the OP.

I certainly disapprove for a toggle that would require a lot of resources (at least for the language, considering we have fully voiced games now) but I do think that dinobot has actually the right to voice his/her expectations for the coming ME:A. I do wish they won't be fulfilled, but hey, that is just my opinion.

 

So, I tried seeing through the OP eyes. There are some things I dislike in the games. What do I do then ?

 

I am among the people that don't mind having my character killing people in a game (I certainly have a good reason, don't I ?), but I can't bear killing animals (can't bear... animals... bear... rha, just forget it)

Hearing the final "whoof" of a wolf in DA:O literally breaks my heart. Whenever my dog dies (which is a lot because I use this mod so he's always in the party and play in nightmare), I reload and pretend it never happened. I hate it in DA:I how fennecs and rams *always* get in the middle of a fight and force me to reload. Yes, I do that.

I wish animals could be immortal and no quest required me to kill them. So what do I do now ? I challenge myself and go out of my way to actually not kill any of them.

Yep, I skip quests in DA:O and DA:I so I won't have to kill animals. I miss XP. Well, isn't it kind of my problem ? ^^

I hate, like really... loathe with all my being, abhor with the force of a thousand suns, the cutscene after Haven in Inquisition. And I can't skip it. So, I turn the sound off, go to my happy place and pretend this really awkward moment never ever happened.

I can already hear some of you say that you can't compare my issues with the OP, which is about explicit content. I say it is the same thing : he/she feels the explicit content is not needed, he/she wishes for an option to make it go away. Well, as do I with my animal-thing and awkward/incoherent/out of character dialogues/cutscenes. I don't like animal killing and I think the story would not be diminished if I could make animals immortal. As for the singing in Inquisition, the story would be so much better without it ^^

I remember seeing somewhere on Reddit someone say he didn't recruit Sera the first time he played Inquisition, because he didn't like the way she talked. Someone said in this thread earlier that he didn't like the way Vega behaved in ME and almost never took him on missions.

 

You can see where I'm going now OP, don't you ? You are asking for the choice, but you actually already have it. Not to not play/buy the game, but to actually skip the few parts that you don't like, not talk to or even recruit characters that you don't like.

You will miss a few/lot of things and maybe part of the story if you do, but you won't have to suffer the content you dislike and will be able to enjoy the rest of the game.

And isn't it what it is about ? Enjoying the game without having to bear (bear.... okay I stop) what makes you feel uncomfortable ?

 

As for Jack, just turn the sound off and tell her what Maurice Moss would tell her : "Will you watch your ruddy language ? My ears are not a toilet !"

Yep. Talking to the screen does help, especially when the devs didn't put the line you want your character to say at a particular moment in the game.

Or is it just me ? :x

[Iakus]

Then don't pursue Romances or Love Interests.  You don't want to see nudity...  Problem solved.

Not really, since some people enjoy a love story without T&A

[Iakus]

Oh please, spare me your (rather ironic) moral lecture. Some, I dare say most, people aren't bothered by nudity because they recognize that nudity isn't something to be uptight about. Especially people like me, who have a medical background. The body is a beautiful thing, and I quite frankly find western societies' obsession with scandalizing nudity to be rather sad and pathetic.
 

So because you aren't bothered by it, it isn't a problem.

 

Also, gotta love yet another slam at "western societies"  like that's a "drop the mic" statement.

 

 

[Mcfly616]

47 pages later and this thread is still going? 

 

 

Page 1 is all one needs to see.  

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

Not really, since some people enjoy a love story without T&A

Then they shouldn't be buying and playing this game.

 

It's rated M.  Play Kingdom Hearts if you're looking for something else.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Then they shouldn't be buying and playing this game.

 

It's rated M.  Play Kingdom Hearts if you're looking for something else.

So you think all romances must have sex scenes? What about romances like Josephine's or Solas', where the level of physical intimacy is left ambiguous? Or what about romances like Dorian's, Sera's, and Rainier's, where it is left optional?

[Elhanan]

Then they shouldn't be buying and playing this game.
 
It's rated M.  Play Kingdom Hearts if you're looking for something else.

Because sex, romance, and nudity are so crucial to a Sci-Fi title....

[Fandango]

Because sex, romance, and nudity are so crucial to a Sci-Fi title....

It's by no means crucial to those of us who are able to take or leave that kind of thing. To those who cant however...

[Han Shot First]

Because sex, romance, and nudity are so crucial to a Sci-Fi title....

 

It isn't necessary, but she's right that people have no right to complain about explicit content in the games they purchased. The rating system tells you exactly what to expect in the product you're purchasing. If a game was given an M rating because of nudity, you'll be told the game is rated M for nudity. Mass Effect 3's ESRB rating lists, "Blood, Partial Nudity, Sexual Content, Strong Language, and Violence."

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

So you think all romances must have sex scenes? What about romances like Josephine's or Solas', where the level of physical intimacy is left ambiguous? Or what about romances like Dorian's, Sera's, and Rainier's, where it is left optional?

 

Because sex, romance, and nudity are so crucial to a Sci-Fi title....

I have made no claims that romances *must* have sex scenes, nor that they are essential to the Mass Effect series. 

 

What I have done is point out illogical fallacies made by many posts regarding the freedom to avoid objectionable content needing to be supported by the Developers.

 

The Developers create the content according to their own artistic and commercial vision.  They follow content guidelines for rating, and have submitted the entirety of the Mass Effect series as M for Mature.  It is marketed and sold under that rating.  It is the choice of every consumer whether or not to purchase and partake of that content based upon the finished products marketing and presentation.  No one forces any consumer to purchase and play the game.

 

Ultimately any thematic and situational content chosen by the Developers to be included in the finished product is considered by the team to be integral to the product identity and franchise identity.  Whatever vision they have and whether or not it corresponds to those of the fans as a whole, or purely a small subsection of the fanbase, is completely irrelevant to process of creating and producing the content; particularly when the finished product and its presentation is fairly transparent.  But the developers decide what is important, and then grade the finished product accordingly.  There are no surprises on the 'level of objectionable content' being presented here.

 

Furthermore, enjoyment of the metaplot and overall game experience is not dependent upon what has been called by the Devs as optional content, most notably the Love Interests and their subsequent romance arcs.  As has been pointed out by at least one Dev in this very thread, it is possible to play through the game and not be surprised to partake in the romances and any potentially objectionable nudity, as you have been made aware by the labeling, presentation, and previews of the game that such content exists within the scope of the game's content.  This is essentially your "toggle" for avoiding nudity and any other objectionable content having to do with sexuality and gender.  Once again, no one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to mouse-click any NPC to initiate dialogue.

 

So we can see here that worst case scenario, there are two pro-active means of avoiding encountering objectionable content in a consumer product that has labelled containing Mature themes, content, violence, and adult situations.

1. Don't click on it if you don't want to see it.
2. Don't buy/play the game if you don't want to encounter it.

This is in addition to the numerous reactive methods already pointed by many posters in this very thread. 

1. Get up for a bathroom break.
2. Go get food or drink.
3. Talk over the scene.
4. Press the Skip/Space button.

Ultimately my perspective is that the consumer must exercise ultimate responsibility for their own viewing and gaming habits.  Don't blame the studio for creating content that is honestly and openly true to itself in both labeling, packaging, presentation, and marketing.  YOU are the first and last layer of protection when it comes to your own "moral" decency or turpitude.

 

Expecting other people to baby-sit you, cater to your specific needs, or take responsibility for your being offended when you knowingly bought a product that was presented with clear warnings and statements about its content, is self-delusional and disingenuous.  

 

Further I feel that these discussions are not *REALLY* about what someone might find morally or aesthetically objectionable in the privacy of their own homes, but are in fact thinly disguised attempts at control; control over society, control over art, control over commercialization, and control over morals and ethics.  That is why I come down hard on those who post here with duplicitous and manipulative attempts at steering the topic away from personal responsibility and into control over others.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I have made no claims that romances *must* have sex scenes, nor that they are essential to the Mass Effect series. 

Ah, okay. With you saying "Then they shouldn't be buying and playing this game." to Iakus saying "Not really, since some people enjoy a love story without T&A", I was confused what you meant by that, reading it as possibly saying such love stories don't belong in these games. Thank you for clarifying.

[KaiserShep]

The T&A is already optional though. The "filter" already exists; you just need to use it. 

 

If character X is the sort to get down in the buff, as most folks are wont to do, then the player's best bet to avoid such lewd acts of digital debauchery would be to abstain…digitally. 

[Sully13]

Awwe but i like digital debauchery.  hay that's a great name for a band.

[Dark Helmet]

Awwe but i like digital debauchery.  hay that's a great name for a band.

 

They kind of ran out of steam after the their THIRD song about tainted Hard Disks though.

[Helios969]

I don't want Bioware to waste a single work hour on such.  The rating system is all the filter an adult should require.

[Elhanan]

It isn't necessary, but she's right that people have no right to complain about explicit content in the games they purchased. The rating system tells you exactly what to expect in the product you're purchasing. If a game was given an M rating because of nudity, you'll be told the game is rated M for nudity. Mass Effect 3's ESRB rating lists, "Blood, Partial Nudity, Sexual Content, Strong Language, and Violence."

I agree actually; reason I try and research the game before launch to see if I can manage it. This is how and why I play DAI, and skip TW3.

[Elhanan]

The T&A is already optional though. The "filter" already exists; you just need to use it. 
 
If character X is the sort to get down in the buff, as most folks are wont to do, then the player's best bet to avoid such lewd acts of digital debauchery would be to abstain…digitally.

This works in DAI; not so well in some other games and titles.