3411 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Could I ask respectfully then why you are trying to influence the development of a game that is practically on your 'no play' list when, I would suggest, the majority of us on this thread play or have played through all three games probably more than once?

Its 'objectionable material' (which I need to re-state is as subjective as the OP's 'explicit') is a fundamental element in the universe the game creates...

Fundamental: forming a necessary base or core; of central importance.

 

It's not a fundamental element. It's an element in the universe, but not a fundamental one.

[ddraigcoch123]

@Hanako well I am sort of assuming we are talking about violence, gore and sex to stop pussyfooting around the issue... I think the first two are fundamental to the ME universe and the third is available to those who choose it... and even then its pretty tame and tasteful...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

@Hanako well I am sort of assuming we are talking about violence, gore and sex to stop pussyfooting around the issue... I think the first two are fundamental to the ME universe and the third is available to those who choose it... and even then its pretty tame and tasteful...

Of the three, the only one that is fundamental is violence simply because combat is a fundamental part of the franchise. Gore however is not. Mass Effect 1 had practically no gore in it whatsoever, and that was the game that set the stage of the Mass Effect universe up. As for sex, as you said it is optional thus it is not fundamental since the game functions just as well without it.  

[nici2412]

I don't know if is has been discussed yet, but another point against a toggle are pratical considerations, which could lead to self-censorship.

They would have to write a lot of scenes and conversations two times.

If the writer is undecided how to write or portray a specific moment, what would he do? Let's say both, more explicit content in terms of profanity or nudity, but also less explicit content would fit during this specific moment- then the writer could tend to choose the less explicit variant, so he doesn't have to write it two times and instead saves time and ressources. In this case everybody would get the light version.

 

PS: As I saw you quoting me@Elhanal. I have you on ignore (you are the only one btw) and I have no intention to discuss with you. My past experience with you show that I'm just wasting my time by answering you, so I won't do it.

[Iakus]

Of the three, the only one that is fundamental is violence simply because combat is a fundamental part of the franchise. Gore however is not. Mass Effect 1 had practically no gore in it whatsoever, and that was the game that set the stage of the Mass Effect universe up. As for sex, as you said it is optional thus it is not fundamental since the game functions just as well without it.  

Agreed.

 

Mass Effect, being a shooter, has violence inextricably tied into the game (unless a Mass Effect: Portal gets made)

 

That said, gore is not vital.  There is no reason so shower us in Ludicrous Gibs

[Fandango]

Agreed.

Mass Effect, being a shooter, has violence inextricably tied into the game (unless a Mass Effect: Portal gets made)

That said, gore is not vital. There is no reason so shower us in Ludicrous Gibs

Which is to make the case for what exactly? Authentic violence? Sanitised violence?

[Elhanan]

Could I ask respectfully then why you are trying to influence the development of a game that is practically on your 'no play' list when, I would suggest, the majority of us on this thread play or have played through all three games probably more than once?
Its 'objectionable material' (which I need to re-state is as subjective as the OP's 'explicit') is a fundamental element in the universe the game creates...

Because I have played Bioware games for this entire new century, and wish to continue. And while Skyrim was a blast, other Bethesda games do not have the same self-discipline when it comes to content. A Toggle like the one suggested would allow for me to tailor the experience as I wish.

[Fandango]

A Toggle like the one suggested would allow for me to tailor the experience as I wish.

Forgive me, I must have missed the post: exactly what will this toggle of yours do? I mean, specifically.

[ddraigcoch123]

So we are agreed that violence is a core element of the game as ME is an RPG that requires a war to be won and you can't do that without dropping bodies... for me its not just a shooter for that I would go somewhere else...

So consensus to a point about the violence?

Gore... well realism is important and as I said before one persons gore is another persons realistic immersion, maybe I want to feel uncomfortable when I head shot someone, but I still want to head shot some enemies...

And as an RPG that relies really heavily on relationships and the romance option is one that I personally value highly again for the immersion, well the 'culmination' of all the flirting is a sex scene so it is kind of important, but as we've said before you can choose that or not...

And then we're left with the language issue and I have to say I'm really uncomfortable using the term 'profanity' which has different connotations for some of us so I'd much rather stick to calling it swearing, coarse of even vulgar language... there is so little of it in the ME universe that its really not worth writing home about is it?

[Iakus]

Which is to make the case for what exactly? Authentic violence? Sanitised violence?

Not making bodies explode from a single gunshot?

 

Not using blood and gore for shock value?

[Killroy]

OP and myself make two; there you are: existence.

What exactly is the monetary reward for making an M-rating filter on an M-rated game? Have you bought and played the previous Mass Effect games? Yes, so what possible benefit is there for BioWare to spend the time, money and resources on this entirely unneeded feature?

[Fandango]

Not making bodies explode from a single gunshot?
 
Not using blood and gore for shock value?

Meaning authentic or sanitised violence?

[ToLazy4Nombre]

Grow up. The games are rated M, what do you expect them to contain? 

 

Jesus, it's truly saddening to see that BioWARE's audience has devolved into SJW freaks the same way that BioWARE has also. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So we are agreed that violence is a core element of the game as ME is an RPG that requires a war to be won and you can't do that without dropping bodies... for me its not just a shooter for that I would go somewhere else...

So consensus to a point about the violence?

Yes, the combat is a core element of the Mass Effect franchise. 

However, as I've said before there is an option Bioware can keep that while also appealing to players who don't like killing: the use of non-lethal rounds. But that's as far as Bioware can realistically go with that, since you can't toggle out gameplay. 

 

Gore... well realism is important and as I said before one persons gore is another persons realistic immersion, maybe I want to feel uncomfortable when I head shot someone, but I still want to head shot some enemies...

Gore is the easiest of these things to handle since gore toggles have existed for years and Bioware has even used them in their Dragon Age games, including Dragon Age: Inquisition which is on the same engine that Mass Effect: Andromeda would be. So it can be done quite easily since all the pieces for it already exist, and just need some tweaking. 

 

And as an RPG that relies really heavily on relationships and the romance option is one that I personally value highly again for the immersion, well the 'culmination' of all the flirting is a sex scene so it is kind of important, but as we've said before you can choose that or not...

I wouldn't say Mass Effect relies heavily on romantic relationships. Platonic relationships sure, but not romantic relationships. The best way Bioware could appease both sides on this front is to do what they did in Dragon Age: Inquisition, which is have some romances have the sex scene be optional or leaving the level of physical intimacy ambiguous. That way people who want to experience the romances but don't like nudity can since there would be ones without mandatory sex scenes.

 

And then we're left with the language issue and I have to say I'm really uncomfortable using the term 'profanity' which has different connotations for some of us so I'd much rather stick to calling it swearing, coarse of even vulgar language... there is so little of it in the ME universe that its really not worth writing home about is it?

To address both profanity and vulgar language, it has increased exponentially as the games have gone on, so one could worry that growth would continue. Bioware could probably address this in two ways. First, have companions who don't swear or use profanity as well as ones that do, and secondly have a dialogue path of the protagonist that doesn't and another that does. With this, a player that doesn't like it can at least have their squad not talk like that. 

[KaiserShep]

Not making bodies explode from a single gunshot?

 

Not using blood and gore for shock value?

 

I've never really seen bodies explode just from a gunshot in Mass Effect 3. The only time an enemy has ever flown apart is when detonated with incendiary ammo reacting to another power, or other powers reacting, though the latter tends to just fling the enemy's body rather than actually blow it apart, and of course the beloved explosive headshot. No way should a Javelin or Widow cause anything less than a melon effect. I wouldn't accept anything less lol. Heck, it's why whenever I play a mage in DA:I, I always go with lightning. 

 

I'd be pretty happy if I could reenact a scene similar to the armory sequence of Elysium, complete with Chemrail Gun. Hot damn I want that thing.

 

 

 

Blood and gore has never been used for shock value in a Mass Effect game though, so I wouldn't really be concerned about that. 

[Elhanan]

What exactly is the monetary reward for making an M-rating filter on an M-rated game? Have you bought and played the previous Mass Effect games? Yes, so what possible benefit is there for BioWare to spend the time, money and resources on this entirely unneeded feature?

Because some believe it is needed; hence the OP.

[Il Divo]

Perhaps start with those that request censorship, or wish to have Teen rated materials, then present them with the idea that preserves artistic freedom and allows for a personal approach to viewership. Maybe making a wider net will not harvest a greater catch, but it may be worth exploring.

 

But again: why would Bioware even start this line of research? What, at present, indicates it's something worth pursuing?

 

I can't speak for others, but I've been on here since Mass Effect 2's launch. I can count on one hand the number of threads I've seen asking for the removal of foul language, one of which was your own. The attitude towards removing swearing in those threads was about the same as I've seen here

 

Yes, it's possible there could be a secret segment of gamers who would catch on to this feature. But at present, there really isn't much to support the idea that Bioware should spend resources to investigate this further, when there are other features with greater support they could explore instead. Bryan's own comments don't really suggest this is something worth looking into.

[Elhanan]

But again: why would Bioware even start this line of research? What, at present, indicates it's something worth pursuing?
 
I can't speak for others, but I've been on here since Mass Effect 2's launch. I can count on one hand the number of threads I've seen asking for the removal of foul language, one of which was your own. The attitude towards removing swearing in those threads was about the same as I've seen here
 
Yes, it's possible there could be a secret segment of gamers who would catch on to this feature. But at present, there really isn't much to support the idea that Bioware should spend resources to investigate this further, when there are other features with greater support they could explore instead. Bryan's own comments don't really suggest this is something worth looking into.

In DAO, such a request was barely needed. While the language became a little worse in DA2, it was still manageable; same with ME1. However, ME2 was intrusive for myself, and DAI also used harsh language, breaking lore and immersion in some cases. Things have become worse; not better, IMO.

The OP suggested a Toggle, and I support the notion. Hopefully, an objective study can be made, and not simply shrugged away as a trivial concern, seeing this is how some other included content has also been addressed.

[Il Divo]

In DAO, such a request was barely needed. While the language became a little worse in DA2, it was still manageable; same with ME1. However, ME2 was intrusive for myself, and DAI also used harsh language, breaking lore and immersion in some cases. Things have become worse; not better, IMO.

The OP suggested a Toggle, and I support the notion. Hopefully, an objective study can be made, and not simply shrugged away as a trivial concern, seeing this is how some other included content has also been addressed.

 

And this is where I find myself concluding that this is merely wishful thinking. If a single thread on an internet forum is enough to deem an objective study worth considering, Bioware's going to find themselves wasting money on an infinite number of low priority features. A method is needed to determine what's actually worth examining and what isn't.

 

It certainly doesn't help your case that you've attempted to place the language filter in the same category as paragon/renegade, the tactical cam, dialogue choices, full voice-over, and romances. Quick point: these are all features which have seen a significantly larger fan base discuss them on a regular basis.
 

[Elhanan]

And this is where I find myself concluding that this is merely wishful thinking. If a single thread on an internet forum is enough to deem an objective study worth considering, Bioware's going to find themselves wasting money on an infinite number of low priority features. A method is needed to determine what's actually worth examining and what isn't.
 
It certainly doesn't help your case that you've attempted to place the language filter in the same category as paragon/renegade, the tactical cam, dialogue choices, full voice-over, and romances. Quick point: these are all features which have seen a significantly larger fan base discuss them on a regular basis.

Being in a minority does not mean they are incorrect, or should not be heard. And if the Toggle is implemented, it only affects those that use it.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Because some believe it is needed; hence the OP.

 

That is no incentive for a company to even look into this issue, much less using any resources on implementing it. Do you have such an inflated ego that your wish counts for so much?

 

You can't even come up with details what that toggle of yours is supposed to do. It's like you want to throw a switch and get exactly the game you desire, with no thought spared to the how.

[KAGEHOSHI-]

Great thread, and in the spirit of this, I have made my own list of things that I want a toggle option to avoid http://forum.bioware...at-i-dont-want/

They may seem strange, but keep in mind that none of these things are fundamental to the game experience.

 

Here is a quote

 

Different people are offended (or not offended) by different things. Some people are offended by seeing sexually reproductive organisms engage in sexual acts despite sex being a natural and normal part of life (add a toggle option for that), and I'm sure some extremely conservative Muslims are offended by seeing human women not completely covered up (add a burka toggle option for that).

Me personally, I offended by a couple things: the color lime green, the act of seeing people eat food (yes I know it's natural, but gross), flowers (dirty sex organs), and any form of sarcasm (it's very mean, much like curse words. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit).

 

Now I don't want BioWare to censor their games just to please me, I understand there are people who are alright with those things I don't want to see, but it would be nice to have an optional toggle sliders so I don't have to see these awful things. These things are not fundamental to the game experience, so it shouldn't negatively impact the game if these things are not shown (maybe just fade to black at a dining scene for example).

 

Have a nice day, and thank you in advance BioWare.

 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Being in a minority does not mean they are incorrect, or should not be heard. And if the Toggle is implemented, it only affects those that use it.

 

Dude, two people aren't a minority. You're barely even a group. You have no statistic relevance at all.

 

The toggle affects ****** everyone who makes or plays the game, not just people who use it. One would have to be extremely narrow-minded and blind not to see that.

[Il Divo]

Being in a minority does not mean they are incorrect, or should not be heard. And if the Toggle is implemented, it only affects those that use it.

 

You can be heard all you'd like. That's what these forums are for. That does not change the fact that this feature has so little outright support as to be virtually pointless in the context of further research. Bioware could explore many other features with greater support behind them.

 

And as has been brought up previously, a toggle does not simply affect those who use it. Optional features represent resources going to aspect X of the game but not aspect Y of the game. Likewise, a language filter toggle becomes more expensive the more swearing the game has. If I had to choose between a language filter and more bug corrections or additional npc's, the filter will lose every time.

[ddraigcoch123]

Yep apart from the complete waste of money that the 'toggle' would take to develop it would have to open up a discussion about where lines are drawn, what needed a 'toggle', and in an extreme case would perhaps (as someone has already mentioned) influence game designers/writers to err on the side of the 'no toggle needed'

 

My only other contribution to this thread, which has probably examined 'the toggle' in as much detail as it needs at this point, is to suggest that we would need to find another word to describe the um... toggle... as after reading and writing it now so often it has become both meaningless and very funny when I say it at the same time...

 

Try it... toggle x 10

 

ps... its not just this word quite a lot of words have the same effect on me when over repeated but this does lend itself awfully well to the effect... hang on maybe we should call the next game 'Toggle Effect' nope made me laugh again...