3411 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Artifice]

To those who support this idea, do any of you really feel like you'd be okay with someone requesting this of you? You get to create something, but then you have to make a "cleaner" version for people who don't, for whatever reason, want your original work. That truly doesn't sound like obnoxious thing to hear from the creator's perspective? 

 

People keep dismissing morals in association with this issue, but morals come into play here for me. I'd generally consider a writer doing this to be a sell out. There might be exceptions where I might soften my position a little, if they really wanted to get the message of an adult story to children, then I wouldn't necessarily approve of doing that instead of writing a new story, but that would still be more an independent decision on the part of the writers than acquiescing to demands.

 

p.s. I'm using demand in the same way I'd use it in the phrase, "supply and demand." I request that you don't read into it. 

[Iakus]

To those who support this idea, do any of you really feel like you'd be okay with someone requesting this of you? You get to create something, but then you have to make a "cleaner" version for people who don't, for whatever reason, want your original work. That truly doesn't sound like obnoxious thing to hear from the creator's perspective? 

 

If someone was willing to pay me, if the original content was still there for people to enjoy if they so choose, and it wasn't more trouble than it was worth, absolutely.

 

My goal would be to make a product as many people as possible can enjoy.  Not wrap myself in "artistic integrity"

 

Note the "more trouble than it's worth" is still a valid point

[Il Divo]

To those who support this idea, do any of you really feel like you'd be okay with someone requesting this of you? You get to create something, but then you have to make a "cleaner" version for people who don't, for whatever reason, want your original work. That truly doesn't sound like obnoxious thing to hear from the creator's perspective? 

 

People keep dismissing morals in association with this issue, but morals come into play here for me. I'd generally consider a writer doing this to be a sell out. There might be exceptions where I might soften my position a little, if they really wanted to get the message of an adult story to children, then I wouldn't necessarily approve of doing that instead of writing a new story, but that would still be more an independent decision on the part of the writers than acquiescing to demands.

 

p.s. I'm using demand in the same way I'd use it in the phrase, "supply and demand." I request that you don't read into it. 

 

Another way to look at this: all writers are sell outs, to varying extents. Unless you're writing a book, where all you need is a paper and pencil, anyone making a film/tv series/anime runs into this problem. Viewership is important and these medium tends to be expensive. This is why something like Hannibal, despite great reviews, is getting canceled while Walking Dead is still ongoing. Personally, I would be surprised if any writer didn't at least consider the role which viewership plays, given that they have to be able to sell their ideas to an audience to keep their writing afloat. Games are art, but they are also a consumer product.

[Iakus]

Another way to look at this: all writers are sell outs, to varying extents. Unless you're writing a book, where all you need is a paper and pencil, anyone making a film/tv series/anime runs into this problem. Viewership is important and these medium tends to be expensive. This is why something like Hannibal, despite great reviews, is getting canceled while Walking Dead is still ongoing. Personally, I would be surprised if any writer didn't at least consider the role which viewership plays, given that they have to be able to sell their ideas to an audience to keep their writing afloat. Games are art, but they are also a consumer product.

As the saying goes:

 

Artists who can't sell their work become starving artists.

[dfjdejulio]

Not really, you can self-censor and that's still censorship technically - we all do it all the time; I never used the work c**t in front of my nan for instance.

 

No, that is not censorship technically -- it's a metaphor.

[dfjdejulio]

I object on the premise that making that filter actually work would require some scenes to be written entirely differently than they would have been written if the filter weren't a consideration.

 

It would also permit some scenes to be written that are today cut, that are dismissed as "going too far" or whatever, because they want the game to be rated M instead of AO (or the equivalent in other countries).

 

Ask if any content has ever been cut from a BioWare game for such reasons, and think about what a toggle might have meant for that content.

[Cyonan]

It would also permit some scenes to be written that are today cut, that are dismissed as "going too far" or whatever, because they want the game to be rated M instead of AO (or the equivalent in other countries).

 

Ask if any content has ever been cut from a BioWare game for such reasons, and think about what a toggle might have meant for that content.

 

The ESRB won't lower the rating just because the content is optional, so if the content is being cut to maintain a M rating then it would still get cut.

[Big Magnet]

I want MORE explicit content! More skin! More BIG butts! More bouncy boobs and an option to motorboat them!

[Pasquale1234]

I think asking a writer to censor themselves, and/or to write an alternate/cut version of their work for the sake of audience sensibilities is entitled and inconsiderate. I think any writer should refuse such a request on principle, and I also think the "where to draw the line" issue is arbitrary to the point that it would be time consuming, and ultimately discourage the Devs from writing whatever they please out of concern for where and what they may have to code a "toggle off" for.

How is that different from a writer being asked to provide a different take because the cinematic designers can't animate it or it won't work in the level / area for which it was designated? Anyone who writes for a visual medium is already limited by set / props / wardrobe / etc. design considerations, what is feasible and affordable wrt fx, etc.

Oh, and intended rating and other content concerns. A writer might want to include scenes that would get an AO rating, but get told to tone it down. Or it might not be dark enough or racy enough, and they are told to spice it up.
 

I think there is a bit of a difference between a bleep and a rewrite. A bleeb masks a word, but usually retains the intent and the tone. Rewriting content has the potential to do a lot more damage to subtext and characterization.

So does translation and cultural context, but these works are translated into multiple languages and consumed in a wide variety of different cultures.

Then there's the "final filter", which no author can escape. Every consumer of any work is going to view it from their own perspective and through their own personal filters.

[Iakus]

I want MORE explicit content! More skin! More BIG butts! More bouncy boobs and an option to motorboat them!

You want the other "explicit content" thread 

[Han Shot First]

I'd be willing to bet that overall toning down or removing explicit content in Mass Effect games would be an unpopular move among the game series' fans. Those who find the occasional use of salty language or brief glimpses of sideboob or a bare backside offensive, are a very small (though sometimes vocal) minority.

 

A good indication of the above is the Fox News controversy where nudity and sex scenes in the first game were criticized as pornographic. The response among fans was largely one of outrage - not at Bioware but at the media talking heads, and the scenes in the game were defended as being no different  from similar content in your typical Hollywood film. Had nudity offended most fans of the game the response from fans to the Fox News controversy would have been more tepid. There might still have been criticism of the exaggeration of the game's content or the more sensationalist elements of that broadcast, but it would have been accompanied by, "...but they do have a point in that nudity doesn't belong in video games." That didn't happen.

 

That isn't to say that people who are in the minority are any less entitled to their opinions. It is worth pointing out though that making what is likely to be an unpopular decision, to appease a minority of the fanbase, does not make good financial sense. Why change the formula if you're likely to garner more criticism than praise for it?

[pdusen]

 

It would also permit some scenes to be written that are today cut, that are dismissed as "going too far" or whatever, because they want the game to be rated M instead of AO (or the equivalent in other countries).

 

Ask if any content has ever been cut from a BioWare game for such reasons, and think about what a toggle might have meant for that content.

 

AO content would have to be so extreme that I seriously doubt Bioware has had to go out of its way to avoid it in the past.

 

When they do cut or rework scenes, it's usually because a scene can be taken in a way that was not at all the way that they intended, rather than to avoid particular objectionable content. I'd refer you to David Gaider's post on the subject, but his tumblr is long gone.

[rashie]

 

 

 

AO content would have to be so extreme that I seriously doubt Bioware has had to go out of its way to avoid it in the past.

 

When they do cut or rework scenes, it's usually because a scene can be taken in a way that was not at all the way that they intended, rather than to avoid particular objectionable content. I'd refer you to David Gaider's post on the subject, but his tumblr is long gone.

 

Yeah pretty much. You'd need to get close to what Manhunt did to even come close to sniffing at an AO rating, its pretty far above anything bioware have ever done.

[N7M]

The ESRB won't lower the rating just because the content is optional, so if the content is being cut to maintain a M rating then it would still get cut.

 

DLC, according to the ESRB website, is rated separately from the main game. Perhaps, Mature or AO content (gore, explicit sex, swearing) could be sold separately, if a lower rating for the primary game is important.

[DaemionMoadrin]

DLC, according to the ESRB website, is rated separately from the main game. Perhaps, Mature or AO content (gore, explicit sex, swearing) could be sold separately, if a lower rating for the primary game is important.

 

So it's not even a toggle anymore, it's the standard game and explicit content needs to be bought seperately as DLC?

 

Get out of here.

[rashie]

DLC, according to the ESRB website, is rated separately from the main game. Perhaps, Mature or AO content (gore, explicit sex, swearing) could be sold separately, if a lower rating for the primary game is important.

Neither Microsoft or Sony allows AO rated content on their platforms, so unless they want to make a PC exclusive piece of DLC that is a dead end too.

[N7M]

So it's not even a toggle anymore, it's the standard game and explicit content needs to be bought seperately as DLC?
 
Get out of here.

Learn to take note of qualifiers. It's a discussion and moving content to DLC is an option to talk about, if toggles are unworkable.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Learn to take note of qualifiers. It's a discussion and moving content to DLC is an option to talk about, if toggles are unworkable.

 

How is it an option?

 

It's exactly the same problem as before, except now it requires two downloads/purchases.

[Fandango]

To be fair, though, the matter of nudity, violence, and even language in their games comes up considerably more often than use of the color orange.

Ah yes, who else here remembers Fox getting widely slammed for attacking Mass Effect's sex scenes?

[DaemionMoadrin]

Ah yes, who else here remembers Fox getting widely slammed for attacking Mass Effect's sex scenes?

 

If you listen to FoxNews, you only have yourself to blame.

[N7M]

How is it an option?
 
It's exactly the same problem as before, except now it requires two downloads/purchases.

It would allow for a lower rating for the main game, which was the point in the quoted post being addressed. Whether that's practical or even desirable for anyone? That's the point of discussion.

[DaemionMoadrin]

It would allow for a lower rating for the main game, which was the point in the quoted post being addressed. Whether that's practical or even desirable for anyone? That's the point of discussion.

 

True, although if the main game gets a lower rating then that is what the devs wanted... and then I see no reason for them to add explicit content with DLCs.

 

To quote myself from an earlier post: "Having options is good, yes. But buying a mature game and then wanting to turn off the mature parts doesn't really make sense. It's like ordering a Vindaloo curry and asking the chef to not make it spicy. Why not order a mild curry in the first place then? It's bound to be better."

[Chealec]

It would allow for a lower rating for the main game, which was the point in the quoted post being addressed. Whether that's practical or even desirable for anyone? That's the point of discussion.

 

Not really - this thread was about putting in a toggle not lowering the rating (there was another thread for that), merely having the option to tone down the language/sex scenes isn't going to affect the rating one way or another.

[N7M]

Not really - this thread was about putting in a toggle not lowering the rating (there was another thread for that), merely having the option to tone down the language/sex scenes isn't going to affect the rating one way or another.

 

That's fair, point taken.

[Xaijin]

I don't quite understand why many here suggest OP play something else if they don't like certain content. Well, if they like 90% of the game, why would they? I didn't like the headshot animation in ME3 one bit and never quite got used to it (I have a blood phobia). So yes, I would like a toggle for that. Others think nothing of gore. I enjoyed the game fine as it was, I never felt like quitting because of things I didn't like. OP stated that they enjoy Bioware games just fine. Fortunately they aren't 90% gore and nudity.

I think it's fine to ask for a toggle. OP simply stated what they didn't like and what would make their game experience better. Just like everyone else. This isn't in any way worse than all the other requests. Bioware will implement what they (and EA) deem most profitable anyway. Which will  most likely not be a nudity toggle.

 

No harm in asking though.

 

Now, how do I get Nibbler from Futurama into ME:A? I want it to be my main weapon against... anything. No gore though, please.

 

It's equally harmless to ask for the distinct lack of a toggle in an M rated game, because of the definite and distcint logistical hit on a series where certain alien races existed as they did because the parent company was unwilling to pay for extra animations.