3411 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Ah yes, who else here remembers Fox getting widely slammed for attacking Mass Effect's sex scenes?

"Remembers"?  It never stopped 

[Il Divo]

Learn to take note of qualifiers. It's a discussion and moving content to DLC is an option to talk about, if toggles are unworkable.

 

I guess my question is: how do you market something like that?

[N7M]

True, although if the main game gets a lower rating then that is what the devs wanted... and then I see no reason for them to add explicit content with DLCs.

 

To quote myself from an earlier post: "Having options is good, yes. But buying a mature game and then wanting to turn off the mature parts doesn't really make sense. It's like ordering a Vindaloo curry and asking the chef to not make it spicy. Why not order a mild curry in the first place then? It's bound to be better."

 

Except, to use your analogy, the recipe has been getting spicier. Mentioning to the restaurant staff that the mild curry is becoming too hot or bland by putting comments and suggestions in a suggestion box is a welcome thing for most businesses. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Except, to use your analogy, the recipe has been getting spicier. Mentioning to the restaurant staff that the mild curry is becoming too hot or bland by putting comments and suggestions in a suggestion box is a welcome thing for most businesses. 

 

Incorrect use.

 

My analogy to a M rated game was spicy curry. The toggle is asking the chef to make it less spicy. It would make more sense to get a T rated game/mild curry because those products were made specially with that rating/spicyness in mind.

 

How you arrive at changes to the mild curry (which would be the T rated game) is something I don't understand, sorry.

[Kappa Neko]

It's equally harmless to ask for the distinct lack of a toggle in an M rated game, because of the definite and distcint logistical hit on a series where certain alien races existed as they did because the parent company was unwilling to pay for extra animations.

Certainly. But I was getting at something else.

 

I agree that a difficult to implement toggle would be money better spend elsewhere. Obviously there is A LOT that isn't in the budget for Bioware, like a decent ending, a working import feature at release and a ton of other things they really should have done better. But companies don't exist to make their customers happy. So whatever isn't profitable or doesn't contribute much to profit will be cut or done poorly.

[N7M]

Incorrect use.

 

My analogy to a M rated game was spicy curry. The toggle is asking the chef to make it less spicy. It would make more sense to get a T rated game/mild curry because those products were made specially with that rating/spicyness in mind.

 

How you arrive at changes to the mild curry (which would be the T rated game) is something I don't understand, sorry.

Treading back to ratings.... ME1, while rated M, doesn't have the same level of gore and swearing as the later installments. This is part of the problem with the ratings system and the wiggle room provided within the M category. ME1 is mild M, that was the point.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Treading back to ratings.... ME1, while rated M, doesn't have the same level of gore and swearing as the later installments. This is part of the problem with the ratings system and the wiggle room provided within the M category. ME1 is mild M, that was the point.

 

M doesn't equal M, which is why each rating has additional qualifiers.

 

ERSB rating for ME1 is M: Blood, Language, Partial Nudity, Sexual Themes, Violence

ERSB rating for ME3 is M: Blood, Partial Nudity, Sexual Content, Strong Language, Violence

 

Wiggle room is normal and expected. There is no other way to rate games. Otherwise you'd have have to rules like "2 s-bombs = language, 3 f-bombs = strong language" and other hilarious nonsense.

[Iakus]

Incorrect use.

 

My analogy to a M rated game was spicy curry. The toggle is asking the chef to make it less spicy. It would make more sense to get a T rated game/mild curry because those products were made specially with that rating/spicyness in mind.

 

How you arrive at changes to the mild curry (which would be the T rated game) is something I don't understand, sorry.

Except, as pointed out, the already spicy curry recipe is getting spicier.  Uncomfortably so for some people.

[Pasquale1234]

To quote myself from an earlier post: "Having options is good, yes. But buying a mature game and then wanting to turn off the mature parts doesn't really make sense. It's like ordering a Vindaloo curry and asking the chef to not make it spicy. Why not order a mild curry in the first place then? It's bound to be better."

That isn't a fair analogy / assessment. There's a lot more to a work than a few scenes that some might find unpalatable.

I *love* horror films, but sometimes find some of the more graphic scenes a little hard to take - so I sometimes close my eyes or look away when they are displayed. I know what happened; I don't need to see what the fx artists cooked up. And even though I might not look at some of the material, I can still enjoy the rest of the work.

I've also read some novels I enjoy and that include sections of erotica. Since that content doesn't interest me, I skip over it.

But you know what grosses me out as much as any other horror scene I've ever witnessed? Miranda's default outfit. When I see her outfit so totally tucked up in her crotch, I can't help but think not only how uncomfortable it would be, but also what it might be like to do her laundry. Ewww...

I did buy the alternate outfit for her, but there's just not enough brain bleach to get that image out of my mind - so she dies in the SM.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Except, as pointed out, the already spicy curry recipe is getting spicier.  Uncomfortably so for some people.

 

So? Product A changes, so now we lobby for changes to product B?

 

The analogy falls apart here then. The people asking for the toggle don't want a little spicyness, they don't want to go back to the old recipe, they want none. They want no nudity, no profanity and no gore. Even ME1 was too much already, they would have enjoyed that game more with all the mature content removed.

 

So... why buy something spicy/mature if you don't really want it? Why not go for a product that caters directly to your tastes, that was designed for you? 9 out of 10 times that product will be better. (And you won't upset the chef by asking for changes when the kitchen is busy already.)

[DaemionMoadrin]

That isn't a fair analogy / assessment. There's a lot more to a work than a few scenes that some might find unpalatable.

I *love* horror films, but sometimes find some of the more graphic scenes a little hard to take - so I sometimes close my eyes or look away when they are displayed. I know what happened; I don't need to see it. And even though I might not look at some of the material, I can still enjoy the rest of the work.

I've also read some novels I enjoy and that include sections of erotica. Since that content doesn't interest me, I skip over it.

But you know what grosses me out as much as any other horror scene I've ever witnessed? Miranda's default outfit. When I see her outfit so totally tucked up in her crotch, I can't help but think not only how uncomfortable it would be, but also what it might be like to do her laundry. Ewww...

I did buy the alternate outfit for her, but there's just not enough brain bleach to get that image out of my mind - so she dies in the SM.

 

Ok, skintight suits aside, what other (mature) content in the ME trilogy did you not like? What would you remove/hide if you could?

[Iakus]

So? Product A changes, so now we lobby for changes to product B?

 

Um, yeah?  Isn't this kind of how feedback works?

 

 

 

The analogy falls apart here then. The people asking for the toggle don't want a little spicyness, they don't want to go back to the old recipe, they want none. They want no nudity, no profanity and no gore. Even ME1 was too much already, they would have enjoyed that game more with all the mature content removed.

 

ME2:  No nudity

 

ME1: No gore, very little nudity.

 

DAO: No nudity, gore toggle

 

DA2: No nudity.  Gore toggle

 

All were "Mature" games.

 

 

So... why buy something spicy/mature if you don't really want it? Why not go for a product that caters directly to your tastes, that was designed for you? 9 out of 10 times that product will be better. (And you won't upset the chef by asking for changes when the kitchen is busy already.)

Because past games had less of this, and methods of bypassing at least some of what was there, while managing to hold on to that precious "M" rating.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Um, yeah?  Isn't this kind of how feedback works?

 

Um, no? Please go back and read the posts again, I'm sure you'll find where you made the mistake.

 

Another example to make it easier: Some people want a changed Ford Focus, so now Ford is making changes to the Fiesta.

 

For the rest: Look at the actual ratings on http://www.esrb.org

[Pasquale1234]

Ok, skintight suits aside, what other (mature) content in the ME trilogy did you not like? What would you remove/hide if you could?

Me? There were some images that I find tasteless in the extreme - the ubiquitous wedgies, occasional kamel-toe, and women in Arrival sitting there spread-legged, with their genitalia on display. From my perspective, those images are all fanservice to an adolescent straight male gaze perspective, which is hardly mature.

Aside from that - I'd prefer fade-to-black romance in RPGs. I like to fill in the blanks in role-playing, but need the blanks there. Otherwise, I disconnect from the character.

[Elhanan]

A Toggle would not change the rating, but may improve the content for that single Player experience.

[Iakus]

Um, no? Please go back and read the posts again, I'm sure you'll find where you made the mistake.

 

There is no mistake, it still serves its purpose 

 

Looks at ME1.  Complaints about the Mako, complaints about inventory, complaints about overheat mechanic

 

ME2: Mako replaces with Hammerhead, inventory removed, thermal clips introduced.  

 

ME3: vehicle driving largely removed entirely, inventory somewhat replaced.  Some overheat weapons reintroduced.  Squad banter put in after complaints of largely silent companions.

 

DAO: complaints about slow, shuffling attack speed.  DA2 speeds things up

DA2, smaller story limited to one city led to complaints, so DAI has bigger, save the world story spanning two nations

 

Feedback about product A leads to changes in Product B 

 

Edit:  also, well aware of the rating system, but it seems that these are not requests for a T rated game so much as for a softer M

[Cyonan]

Me? There were some images that I find tasteless in the extreme - the ubiquitous wedgies, occasional kamel-toe, and women in Arrival sitting there spread-legged, with their genitalia on display. From my perspective, those images are all fanservice to an adolescent straight male gaze perspective, which is hardly mature.

Aside from that - I'd prefer fade-to-black romance in RPGs. I like to fill in the blanks in role-playing, but need the blanks there. Otherwise, I disconnect from the character.

 

What if in return we have Kaiden walk around shirtless for half the game again?

[N7M]

Wiggle room is normal and expected. There is no other way to rate games. Otherwise you'd have have to rules like "2 s-bombs = language, 3 f-bombs = strong language" and other hilarious nonsense.

 

Wiggle room is necessary, albeit to a limited degree. If a single rating goes from mild x, y, or z to extreme x, y, or z there is a consistency issue within the single rating. There should be no mild to extreme within a single rating. Not that Mass Effect has crossed to extreme or would but the creep from mild is noticeable and the ratings system, as is, wouldn't encourage curtailing the change. 

Personally, I would prefer content toggles/sliders to removing content from those who want it and have come to enjoy the game because of it.

[Pasquale1234]

What if in return we have Kaiden walk around shirtless for half the game again?

Again? I don't recall ever seeing Kaidan outside of uniform / armor.

Regardless, what exactly would that accomplish?

[AlleyD]

My recommendation for those consumers who would prefer a form of filtering mechanism would be to check out commercially available mechanisms that are marketed to seemingly cater for your requirements. A quick google search brought up 3 products; ClearPlay, TVGuardian and VidAngel. These products mainly cater for DVD, TV and streaming video, but I believe they could be persuaded to include computer games as well in their market. After all, a franchise like Mass Effect has sales of around 14million (WIKI) and that is a significant number for manufacturers of a "niche" product to consider targeting.

[Cyonan]

Again? I don't recall ever seeing Kaidan outside of uniform / armor.

Regardless, what exactly would that accomplish?

 

It wasn't actually half the game, but Kaidan was shirtless during his stay in the hospital during Mass Effect 3.

 

It's mostly that you're never going to get rid of the 'eye candy', nor is it very likely that there is going to be any sort of a toggle for it. The best you can do is just give eye candy for everybody.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Me? There were some images that I find tasteless in the extreme - the ubiquitous wedgies, occasional kamel-toe, and women in Arrival sitting there spread-legged, with their genitalia on display. From my perspective, those images are all fanservice to an adolescent straight male gaze perspective, which is hardly mature.

Aside from that - I'd prefer fade-to-black romance in RPGs. I like to fill in the blanks in role-playing, but need the blanks there. Otherwise, I disconnect from the character.

 

The Arrival one is an unfortunate texture as the outfits are skincolored under mesh, no one is actually naked. I agree with the rest but that's nothing a toggle can change. That needs to be adressed right from the start.

 

The romance issue has nothing to do with mature content though, that's completely subjective. You could have a love scene in a T rated game as well and if it doesn't fade to black, then it wouldn't work for you either.

 

There is no mistake, it still serves its purpose 

Feedback about product A leads to changes in Product B 

 

Edit:  also, well aware of the rating system, but it seems that these are not requests for a T rated game so much as for a softer M

 

 You -almost- got it. Too bad.

 

This is almost like arguing with Elhanan. Doesn't get it either and tries to evade.

[Gwydden]

Treading back to ratings.... ME1, while rated M, doesn't have the same level of gore and swearing as the later installments. This is part of the problem with the ratings system and the wiggle room provided within the M category. ME1 is mild M, that was the point.

All of them are mild M. Gore and swearing remain minimal throughout the trilogy, and ME1 actually has the most explicit sexual content.

[Iakus]

All of them are mild M. Gore and swearing remain minimal throughout the trilogy, and ME1 actually has the most explicit sexual content.

It's also content you can skip right past with the push of a button.

[Iakus]

 

 You -almost- got it. Too bad.

 

This is almost like arguing with Elhanan. Doesn't get it either and tries to evade.

THen please, tell me what I missed