3411 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Elhanan,,

You are demanding a change to everyone's game.

The inclusion of a censorship system.

My opinion is that you know this, evidenced by you refusal to answer the question about where these resources to make such a change come from in a constrained environment.

Any diversion of limited resources for such a project takes away said resources from making the game better.

Or, if you know something else, like such a system is free, doesn't take dev(s) input, takes no time, and won't harm the game, please tell.

I have no specifics of what resources would be replaced. As with any implementation, they would be those not seen as worthy of implantation, or too problematic to make.

And the change would only be for those using the filter. Both settings allow one to play the content they wish much like Hide Helmets.

[Fandango]

Like a helmet toggle he says!

[DaemionMoadrin]

I think it's time to analyze the OP's request in detail. The OP is Matthew Allred, who says he works at Opinionology. Their slogan is "You ask, the world answers." I'd call that suspicious but let's give him the benefit of the doubt. His blog entry has no comments but there were 22 comments on reddit, including some from a BioWare employee (?): https://www.reddit.c...rding_explicit/

 

He also posted a short review of the ME trilogy on his blog, in which he doesn't even mention nudity, gore or language. http://greatworkrevi...gy-bioware.html

If he really was so concerned about mature content, then why didn't he say so in his recommendation?

 

Now to the post itself:

It's a bit curious that he'd speak on behalf of a minority demographic when no one has heard of said demographic before. It basically came into being with that sentence. Anyway...

 

Videogames have the unique providence of being a medium built around individuals. I can already control gaming aspects like difficulty, subtitles, and graphic and auditory settings, so why not what explicit content I see and hear?

 

 

That is incorrect. No game is built for or around individuals. As games are products, they are designed to appeal to large audiences. Customization of your gaming experience rarely has any effect on the actual content of a game. Most of the time the higher difficulty settings increase the health and damage of your opponents, enable friendly fire or spawn more waves of enemies. Those things can be done relatively easy by changing a few numbers. The game content remains unaffected. You do not simply gain or lose the option of solving your problems peacefully, there is no cavalry swooping in to help and puzzles don't solve itself automatically... even if that was your individual preference.

Mixing graphic/sound settings with that is just confusing the issue.

 

Choice is a key aspect of Bioware games, it is one of the attributes that truly make your titles stand out, so why not extend that choice further into the real world, embracing players who want to play the games without the explicit aspects?

 

 

If you wanted to have a choice like in the BioWare games, then your toggle would pretend to have an huge impact but ultimatively change nothing.

If explicit content is not to your liking, then skipping the game entirely is the best choice. Otherwise you'd expose yourself to a watered down experience, you might not understand the memes and comments based on the game despite having played it.

 

I have seen countless forum threads where gamers have asked if X game has an option to turn off explicit content, and the answer is almost always the same: no such option exists. The replies on these threads then usually go on to mock the gamer in question, attempting to emasculate the player (regardless of whether they are male or female), telling them they need to “grow a pair” etc. I don’t see any need for this kind of mentality in the gaming world.

 

 

Really? Where? If you have seen countless threads like this one, then you should be able to link to a dozen or so easily.

The rest of the quote is a typical strawman argument that turns everyone who argues against the OP into a bully. That's not the best way to garner support.

 

Bioware games champion the fact that different kinds of people, leaders, and problem-solvers all have a place, e.g. you can be a renegade, you can be a paragon, etc. I don’t think Bioware needs to limit its fan base to those who enjoy explicit content. My reasons for wanting to limit my own exposure to explicit content are personal. Strangers don’t have to understand my reasons for them to be valid.

 

 

Maybe it's just me but that last sentence sounds weird to me. "I'm here to talk about my wishes but I can't say why." ... okay.

I don't believe it.

I also don't see BioWare limiting itself... the stories they tell are mature. Explicit content goes hand in hand with that. Filtering it out would change the story to some degree and I honestly doubt the tiny increase of its fan base due to the few people who want a toggle could offset the rather large part of the current fanbase that would be disappointed with the changes.

 

I know I’m not the only one with concerns about what kind of content will be in ME:A.

 

 

You know that how? Asked a friend? Unless you know of a couple thousand people with the same concerns, it doesn't count. You aren't a demographic if your group contains only a dozen people. If you only represent 0.0003% of the fanbase, then your request doesn't matter. Even if you're vocal about it.

 

The first Mass Effect game had no strong language, very little gore, and very brief partial nudity, while the most recent Mass Effect game had strong language at times, gore in the form of heads exploding when sniped, and the most recent Dragon Age game had much more explicit nudity. It leads some of us to wonder what the future holds if in such a short period of time this much new explicit content is introduced.

 

 

That's not entirely wrong, but it's not the full picture.

 

ME1: Blood, Language, Partial Nudity, Sexual Themes, Violence

ME2: Blood, Drug Reference, Sexual Content, Strong Language, Violence

ME3: Blood, Partial Nudity, Sexual Content, Strong Language, Violence

 

DA:O: Blood, Intense Violence, Language, Partial Nudity, Sexual Content

DA:O/A: Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Language, Partial Nudity, Sexual Content

DA2: Blood and Gore, Language, Sexual Content, Violence

DA:I: Blood, Intense Violence, Nudity, Sexual Content, Strong Language

 

Your prediction that future titles would contain -more- explicit content is incorrect, as you can see. Dragon Age has less gore now than it used to have. Strong language is usually centered on one or two NPCs, it's not permeating the entire game.

If you compare DA:O to DA:I, then DA:I appears to be squeaky clean except for brief glimpses of nude bodies.
 

 

I hope I am not opening myself and others up to derision by asking for this concession, but I hope you will seriously consider implementing three separate toggles in the settings of your future games to control language, gore, and sexuality. Some games have given these options in the past, but I challenge you to set an industry standard by doing this with your A-list, flagship titles. Show that you care about all of your fans, not just the majority, and other companies will follow.

 

 

Strawman.

 

Some games have had this option in the past, that is correct. None of them were as complex as BioWare games though. If you only have a linear storyline featuring a set protagonist, if every playthrough is identical to the next, then changing a few things here and there are much, much easier.

 

This brings us to this article: http://kotaku.com/58...f-mature-gaming

 

If you want those filters so you can play mature titles with your kids, then you are a bad parent. It's not like taking out a few cuss words, turning blood into sparkles and censoring nudity would make the content of the game age appropriate. You're still killing people, blowing stuff up and leaving chaos in your wake. Look back at ME and the things you did there and then think if that's something kids should experience. What kind of message does that send?

 

Asking for toggles/filters is selfish. You want to play with your kids? Then play games that are rated for them. You don't want them watch you play a mature game? Then don't play when they are around. Brutally dismembering an enemy doesn't become less gruesome only because the blood is green or if the enemy is a faceless mook.

What about decisions like going through with the genocide of an entire people while betraying and murdering your friends? Is that something a child should see?

 

Oh, you want that toggle for yourself because you are opposed to explicit content? Does the game become more palatable when no one drops a f-bomb while slaughtering hordes of husks? Does the lack of exploding heads make up for the scores of mutilated bodies scattered all over the place? Do you feel more comfortable if all nudity is covered while people talk about rape or their many conquests?

 

That's hypocritical.

 

All the technical issues have been pointed out. The demands for additional time and money have been mentioned several times.

The impact of a toggle on the entire game has been discussed.

 

Still, people ignore those facts with demands that BioWare analyzes the situation themselves... as if their findings would be any different.

 

I could list the number of subjects I studied, most of which apply to this issue (project management, business management, accounting, software development, process analysis, computer engineering etc) but since facts won't be accepted here, let's try something else.

 

Imagine there is a car company. They make two lines of cars and you've driven all of them in the past and liked them well enough.

Now you are ecologically minded and request that they install an electric motor next to the fuel engine and give you a toggle to switch between the both at will. Your argument is that people who don't want it simply don't have to switch it on.

The problem is: It's still in the car. Optional doesn't mean free. It still had to be developed, it had to be built and tested, it had to be put into the car. For it to fit and work as it is supposed to, other components of the car had to be shuffled around. The car itself had to be changed to make it work. All that time and effort cost money and it's going to create more work down the road. But the company can't make their cars more expensive because no one would buy them then. How are they supposed to profit from that toggle? It's not much better for the customer either. The car weighs more than before and that costs them... even if they don't care about the electric motor at all.

 

If your counter argument is the existence of hybrid cars, then keep in mind that those aren't sold for the same price as standard cars. Most companies who offer them also have several lines of standard cars they sell, so they have more than one source of income. The marketshare of hybrid cars hovers around 1%. Not exactly lucrative.

 

Anyway, that's exactly what you are asking for.

 

Now let's see if I can get more than two lines as response. Maybe we can even have an actual discussion, something this thread hasn't seen in ages...

[ImperialAuthority]

I recently posted this on my blog, and I wanted to share it here as well.

 

 

An Open Letter to Bioware,

 

Your games (specifically the Mass Effect and Dragon Age Trilogies) are among the finest action-RPGs on the market. In anticipation of Mass Effect: Andromeda, I feel compelled to write openly on behalf of a minority demographic your team may not be aware of: players who love the story and action elements of the game but don’t care for the explicit content. I’m asking on behalf of myself and others for you to add a feature in the settings of your future titles allowing players to set which explicit content they want displayed in the games—namely language, gore, and sexual content.

 

Please understand that I am not advocating censorship, but merely choice. I am a writer myself, and I know I don’t want anyone telling me what is or isn’t appropriate for my own work. Instead of trying to control the content you put in your games, I’m simply asking for the choice to customize my experience for maximum enjoyment. Videogames have the unique providence of being a medium built around individuals. I can already control gaming aspects like difficulty, subtitles, and graphic and auditory settings, so why not what explicit content I see and hear? Choice is a key aspect of Bioware games, it is one of the attributes that truly make your titles stand out, so why not extend that choice further into the real world, embracing players who want to play the games without the explicit aspects? Of course those of us who want to limit our own exposure to explicit content already have a choice: to not play. But I hope you’ll give us a third option: to play without the content we hope to avoid in media.

 

I have seen countless forum threads where gamers have asked if X game has an option to turn off explicit content, and the answer is almost always the same: no such option exists. The replies on these threads then usually go on to mock the gamer in question, attempting to emasculate the player (regardless of whether they are male or female), telling them they need to “grow a pair” etc. I don’t see any need for this kind of mentality in the gaming world. Bioware games champion the fact that different kinds of people, leaders, and problem-solvers all have a place, e.g. you can be a renegade, you can be a paragon, etc. I don’t think Bioware needs to limit its fan base to those who enjoy explicit content. My reasons for wanting to limit my own exposure to explicit content are personal. Strangers don’t have to understand my reasons for them to be valid.

 

I know I’m not the only one with concerns about what kind of content will be in ME:A. The first Mass Effect game had no strong language, very little gore, and very brief partial nudity, while the most recent Mass Effect game had strong language at times, gore in the form of heads exploding when sniped, and the most recent Dragon Age game had much more explicit nudity. It leads some of us to wonder what the future holds if in such a short period of time this much new explicit content is introduced.

 

Let me reiterate my stance that this is a personal choice. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong for any other person to view or enjoy this content, but that as for myself I know I want to avoid it, and that I can enjoy your future action-RPGs much more without it. I hope I am not opening myself and others up to derision by asking for this concession, but I hope you will seriously consider implementing three separate toggles in the settings of your future games to control language, gore, and sexuality. Some games have given these options in the past, but I challenge you to set an industry standard by doing this with your A-list, flagship titles. Show that you care about all of your fans, not just the majority, and other companies will follow.

 

Regardless of what you choose to do, please accept my gratitude for making some of the best games I’ve ever played.

 

 

EDIT: Some commentors here don't seem to have read the letter carefully, which might be my fault because it's kind of long. But just to be clear, I'm not in any way asking for them to reduce the language, sexual content, or gore from future games. I am not making any attempt at cencorship. I'm simply asking for the option to turn off explicit content when I play, and I know I'm not alone in wanting such an option.

 

EDIT: "Gore" and "violence" are not the same thing, please be aware of the distinction.

 

1. Not going to happen.

2. Its rated MATURE for a reason. Play it alone.

3. You will experience sexual content like everyone else.

 

Now, close your "open letter", you already embarrassed yourself enough by posting pointless thread.

 

if you want support/official reply   http://help.ea.com/uk/

[pdusen]

I wonder, if everyone else stopped replying to this thread, would Elhanan keep repeating himself to himself until he said something he didn't like and put himself on ignore?

[Chealec]

I wonder, if everyone else stopped replying to this thread, would Elhanan keep repeating himself to himself until he said something he didn't like and put himself on ignore?

 

I strongly suspect he's already put everyone who can string an argument together on ignore anyway; so we could have a conversation about something completely different and he'd be blissfully unaware.

 

Baby Pygmy Hippos anyone?

 

[SnakeCode]

I wonder, if everyone else stopped replying to this thread, would Elhanan keep repeating himself to himself until he said something he didn't like and put himself on ignore?

 

Wouldn't bank on it. He's been repeating pretty much the same argument as he has in this thread for 300+ pages in the Witcher 3 thread in the Feedback section for DA:I. If he isn't tired or hasn't bored himself by now, it isn't happening.

[Elhanan]

Have no children about the home; simply desire the Toggle features suggested for myself. My motives are my own; others may have varied reason for wanting them, or leaving them off and using the default content. Still hoping that EA and Bioware take a good long look at the benefits, costs, market, and need for something like this.

Number of sentences: three.... well, now four; five is right out....

[DaemionMoadrin]

Have no children about the home; simply desire the Toggle features suggested for myself. My motives are my own; others may have varied reason for wanting them, or leaving them off and using the default content. Still hoping that EA and Bioware take a good long look at the benefits, costs, market, and need for something like this.

Number of sentences: three.... well, now four; five is right out....

 

I'm almost impressed.

 

So you are saying this is your entire response? To that long post? Nothing else to add?

 

Have you tried countering an argument? Do you have arguments of your own? You know, we could discuss this properly. I'm willing to help you, if you don't know how.

[pdusen]

I'm almost impressed.

 

So you are saying this is your entire response? To that long post? Nothing else to add?

 

Have you tried countering an argument? Do you have arguments of your own? You know, we could discuss this properly. I'm willing to help you, if you don't know how.

 

I think at this point he just sees a string of ignored posts and is pasting his stock response assuming that it has something to do with what people are saying.

[Elhanan]

I think at this point he just sees a string of ignored posts and is pasting his stock response assuming that it has something to do with what people are saying.

Close; no motive to debate those with little more to say than insults.

[Chealec]

Debate : nope, that's not what this is - a debate would be a two way thing; this is more like one side saying there are problems with the proposal and the other sticking their fingers in their ears and going "la la la I can't hear you" (which is pretty much what putting everyone on ignore is) ...

[dragonflight288]

Debate : nope, that's not what this is - a debate would be a two way thing; this is more like one side saying there are problems with the proposal and the other sticking their fingers in their ears and going "la la la I can't hear you" (which is pretty much what putting everyone on ignore is) ...

 

Not really.

 

There are people making fun of Elhanan, and others who are adamant that his position would alter their gameplay in fundamental ways and thus would alter their enjoyment of the game.

 

But let's be realistic here.

 

IF such a toggle were implemented, we the gamers wouldn't know what is or is not scrapped from the game unless the devs specifically told us or showed us pre-game content that never made it into the game itself, like the Chasind or Human Commoner Origins in Dragon Age Origins or the siege of Crestwood in Inquisition. All that we the gamers would see, if we had one playthrough with the toggle on and one playthrough with the toggle off what changes about the direct content and then see what we prefer.

 

We, the gaming community, would judge the game based on what is there for us to enjoy, not what was taken out in the development process for whatever reason. As such, if the toggle were implemented, only those who chose to use it would lose out on actual content for their own varied reasons, and that exact same content would not be affected by those who chose not to use it. 

 

As such, Elhanan's argument has been that when the final product is released, if such a toggle is implemented, he'd be far more satisfied as a gamer, and those who chose not to use it would not really be missing out on anything that is not already in the game. 

 

Even though Gears of War is a different genre with a different engine with a different developer, Elhanan is saying that it's ALSO  a proof of concept that it can be implemented and increase the customer base, and thus is worth at least looking into.

 

I take that to mean that if Bioware were to look into it, and even if they decided to scrap the idea for their game due to resources or time management, Elhanan would still be satisfied that Bioware at least looked into the option, and if they decided it's viable and went full-steam ahead with the idea, then nothing is wrong with that either. 

 

Realistically, if Bioware decided to use the explicit content toggle and figured out ways to work it in, that would be one of the early decisions of the game-designing process anyway. Meaning that Bioware has probably already made the decision and already committed resources to Andromeda's features that were already decided on.

 

Elhanan, on the basis of the OP and the thread's topic, feels that such a measure is worth it. That's essentially the long and short.

 

We can argue, or you can argue till you're blue in the face, and probably already have since this is essentially 69 pages some people making comments that they would like to see a toggle in future games and other people either making fun of them or dismissing them entirely, some for valid resource reasons, others simply because they are saying "prudes," but it doesn't change the fact that there is a market for the people who want the toggle. Gears of War had enough of an increase in their game sales thanks to the filter to make them want to refine it.

 

And that market will be the ultimate decision maker for Bioware if they feel there is enough people out there who'll get the game who otherwise wouldn't have due to the warning label, or if there are not. 

[FKA_Servo]

Number of sentences: three.... well, now four; five is right out....

 

This thread could benefit from a little bit of holy hand grenade, I think.

 

Whole forum really, who are we kidding here?

 

[von uber]

If your point is that the filters are one of the only things preventing you from swearing that could be taken as fodder for a pro-toggle argument and, frighteningly, bringing back the branks without gender discrimination. With a population of swearing grumblers abounding what else could suffice?

My point was illustrating how even this filter doesn't work.
How people can then expect it to be implemented in the game is another matter entirely; especially given the variants in what is 'offensive ' between English and the American version.
Now imagine multiplying that by all the other languages.

Or is it only for Americans? In that case can I have an English version (voiced by Alex wilton naturally ) where we get to keep all the good bits?

[God]

My point was illustrating how even this filter doesn't work.
How people can then expect it to be implemented in the game is another matter entirely; especially given the variants in what is 'offensive ' between English and the American version.
Now imagine multiplying that by all the other languages.

Or is it only for Americans? In that case can I have an English version (voiced by Alex wilton naturally ) where we get to keep all the good bits?

 

You're bias is showing. Just saying.

[Chealec]

Not really.

 

There are people making fun of Elhanan, and others who are adamant that his position would alter their gameplay in fundamental ways and thus would alter their enjoyment of the game.

 

But let's be realistic here.

 

....

 

 

And that market will be the ultimate decision maker for Bioware if they feel there is enough people out there who'll get the game who otherwise wouldn't have due to the warning label, or if there are not. 

 

Since you've actually made a reasoned response - I'll save you the effort of reading everything I've posted; my position boils down to this:

 

Working with natural language is difficult (trust me on this, I run ecommerce websites in English, Dutch and German, and websites are fairly straightforward) - there would be a significant overhead in both time and cost to implement a profanity filter. There would also be hardware considerations as it would require both additional HDD space (to store the extra content) and RAM (to store both soundtracks in memory simultaneously and potentially 2 versions of some textures - offensive graffiti for instance). There may also be bandwidth considerations as the game would have to be larger to download (which may have a cost implication on the SEN or XBL). Now you could argue that "why make the offending graffiti" texture in the first place? If it was fitting to the story and the devs wanted it in there then why not - it's an 'M' rated game, a filter won't change that. So already by removing that texture this optional filter is impacting on the game the devs intended.

 

I've only managed to find 2 'M' rated games franchises (Sunset Overdrive and Gears of War) that have implemented a profanity filter that affects in-game content. Both were created by companies that made the underlying game engine (Fuse and Unreal respectively) as well as the game - unlike BioWare who license the engine - and both companies said it was a lot of work, required rebuilding some game assets and was, in fact, far more effort than implementing a gore filter.

 

Neither of those games have anything like the extended branching dialogue of a Mass Effect game and Sunset Overdrive (at least) doesn't have anything like the other mature themes of a Mass Effect game - it's a cartoony shooter.

 

Any profanity filter would also need to be localised and there's the issue then of what constitutes profanity in any region - this North American based forum, for instance, has no problems with bollocks or arse - but does block the word for a vaginal sex toy.

 

Even when the game engine has supported a profanity filter (the Unreal engine does as Epic included it in Gears of War) BioWare haven't seen fit to implement it; presumably it's not a highly requested feature in their testing or focus groups. They could have put one in Mass Effect 3 - it would still be a shed-load of work but the underlying game engine already has this feature. This may not be the case with Frostbite.

 

 

I'm not opposed to the idea on any kind of idealogical grounds but merely these 4 points which Elhanan essentially refuses to acknowledge:

 

1: it would be expensive and time consuming - especially with a Mass Effect game.

 

2: it wouldn't change the 'M' rating of the game so the additional market is only adults who wouldn't want profanity in an 'M' rated game.

 

3: there's a very good chance it would impact on the game "as intended"

 

4: it may require an overhaul of the Frostbite engine - there are no other games on Frostbite with a profanity filter - since BioWare didn't make the engine I'm not convinced it's in their remit to make these changes.

 

 

If you want to be realistic that is, I'm afraid, the reality of the situation.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Not really.

 

There are people making fun of Elhanan, and others who are adamant that his position would alter their gameplay in fundamental ways and thus would alter their enjoyment of the game.

 

But let's be realistic here.

 

IF such a toggle were implemented, we the gamers wouldn't know what is or is not scrapped from the game unless the devs specifically told us or showed us pre-game content that never made it into the game itself, like the Chasind or Human Commoner Origins in Dragon Age Origins or the siege of Crestwood in Inquisition. All that we the gamers would see, if we had one playthrough with the toggle on and one playthrough with the toggle off what changes about the direct content and then see what we prefer.

 

We, the gaming community, would judge the game based on what is there for us to enjoy, not what was taken out in the development process for whatever reason. As such, if the toggle were implemented, only those who chose to use it would lose out on actual content for their own varied reasons, and that exact same content would not be affected by those who chose not to use it. 

 

As such, Elhanan's argument has been that when the final product is released, if such a toggle is implemented, he'd be far more satisfied as a gamer, and those who chose not to use it would not really be missing out on anything that is not already in the game. 

 

Even though Gears of War is a different genre with a different engine with a different developer, Elhanan is saying that it's ALSO  a proof of concept that it can be implemented and increase the customer base, and thus is worth at least looking into.

 

I take that to mean that if Bioware were to look into it, and even if they decided to scrap the idea for their game due to resources or time management, Elhanan would still be satisfied that Bioware at least looked into the option, and if they decided it's viable and went full-steam ahead with the idea, then nothing is wrong with that either. 

 

Realistically, if Bioware decided to use the explicit content toggle and figured out ways to work it in, that would be one of the early decisions of the game-designing process anyway. Meaning that Bioware has probably already made the decision and already committed resources to Andromeda's features that were already decided on.

 

Elhanan, on the basis of the OP and the thread's topic, feels that such a measure is worth it. That's essentially the long and short.

 

We can argue, or you can argue till you're blue in the face, and probably already have since this is essentially 69 pages some people making comments that they would like to see a toggle in future games and other people either making fun of them or dismissing them entirely, some for valid resource reasons, others simply because they are saying "prudes," but it doesn't change the fact that there is a market for the people who want the toggle. Gears of War had enough of an increase in their game sales thanks to the filter to make them want to refine it.

 

And that market will be the ultimate decision maker for Bioware if they feel there is enough people out there who'll get the game who otherwise wouldn't have due to the warning label, or if there are not. 

 

Yay, actual arguments! Thank you!

 

1. You're correct. We wouldn't know -what- had to be changed to implement the toggle. What we would notice is that there is less of an impact of cutscenes, that the dialogue has become more generic and that the personalities of several NPCs are bland. That's the direct result of writing two stories in parallel. One original, one censored. But let's go with bleeping out offending words, then the changes would be minimal and acceptable.

 

2. The Gears of Wars articles is from 2011. It's been four years and such toggles haven't become more popular since then. GoW is owned by Microsoft and Epic, both have considerable influence on the gaming market and we have seen almost nothing of such a toggle. Why is that?

 

3. Andromeda is probably halfway done already, it's far too late to build such a feature into the game.

 

4. Yes, BioWare can look into the matter, analyze it and decide if it would be profitable. I'm fairly sure they already did so. There's no reason to believe some random forum poster knows better than the people at BioWare, whose very job this is. Personally, all my experience and knowledge speak against it... and I do know what I am doing as well.

 

5. I feel you're not entirely objective with your post. Some people have tried to have a constructive discussion with the OP, Elhanan and the few others in favour of this toggle. The problem is, they didn't respond. They didn't argue their point, they couldn't field any reasons to support their view and they ignored everything that they didn't like. And now you complain that we're dismissive and making fun of them? Well, they created that situation in the first place. I wrote several long, detailed posts explaining the entire situation from my point of view. Did anyone try to refute my arguments? Nope! Instead I get broken record cosplay with no arguments at all.

 

6. "[..]there is a market for the people who want the toggle. Gears of War had enough of an increase in their game sales thanks to the filter to make them want to refine it."

Yeah no, how do you know that? Even Epic said they don't know if it had any impact on their sales and they made the game. Do you have any numbers or articles or anything to prove your statement? Anything at all pointing to a market for self-censored mature AAA games?

Because I've looked and I've found nothing.

[Chealec]

Actually, I can see one way it might be possible to implement a profanity filter and not have it affect the development of ME:A...

 

BioWare make the game "as intended" and release it - then calculate a ballpark figure for what it might cost to implement a profanity filter, re-record the vox, create alternate text and textures and tweak the engine (if required) and put it up on Kickstarter as an optional DLC pack. Anyone who then wants a profanity filter can put their money where their mouth is and back it... might work?

[Elhanan]

To be fair, I started ignoring some posters long before this thread. And I have acknowledged the issues made by Bryan Johnson; just do not respond to some others.

@ dragonflight288 - Thank you for the translation! Now for your own safety, pls get out of my head; it is as full of webs as the storeroom in the Circle Mage Tower of DAO.

[FKA_Servo]

Gears of War had enough of an increase in their game sales thanks to the filter to make them want to refine it.

 

I'm unshakably skeptical that this was not just a side effect of the fact that GoW series was a tremendously popular multiplayer shooter, and the first game was one of the earliest 360 games. The increasing sales are just something that happens as the install base and series popularity grows.

 

Has a Call of Duty game ever been outsold by it's predecessor?

[von uber]

You're bias is showing. Just saying.

Nah. It appears to only be the Americans (and a small number at that) who appear to be asking for a filter.
My point stands that trying to get it to work for all the languages and variations would be impossible, and that's not even taking into account the different things people find offensive .

[Il Divo]

Not really.

 

There are people making fun of Elhanan, and others who are adamant that his position would alter their gameplay in fundamental ways and thus would alter their enjoyment of the game.

 

But let's be realistic here.

 

IF such a toggle were implemented, we the gamers wouldn't know what is or is not scrapped from the game unless the devs specifically told us or showed us pre-game content that never made it into the game itself, like the Chasind or Human Commoner Origins in Dragon Age Origins or the siege of Crestwood in Inquisition. All that we the gamers would see, if we had one playthrough with the toggle on and one playthrough with the toggle off what changes about the direct content and then see what we prefer.

 

We, the gaming community, would judge the game based on what is there for us to enjoy, not what was taken out in the development process for whatever reason. As such, if the toggle were implemented, only those who chose to use it would lose out on actual content for their own varied reasons, and that exact same content would not be affected by those who chose not to use it. 

 

As such, Elhanan's argument has been that when the final product is released, if such a toggle is implemented, he'd be far more satisfied as a gamer, and those who chose not to use it would not really be missing out on anything that is not already in the game. 

 

 Any understanding of opportunity costs tells us that anybody who does not use a feature gets absolutely nothing out of its inclusion. Every time a developer pushes resources towards something a player doesn't make use of, they're increasing the likelihood of reducing their enjoyment of the base product. And that count is additive for each feature you don't make use. Using the "well you wouldn't even notice" defense is essentially a strawman. Where are those additional resources going then? Unless developers are adding a budget strictly for a language toggle (extremely unlikely), that comes out of the total budget.  

 

This is why the "we both win" argument doesn't work. We might both end up with a game we like. That's certainly true. But we don't both benefit from the inclusion of the language filter. It's contributing to only your enjoyment of the game.

 

Edit: And as others have pointed out, more foul language would mean more work in implementing the toggle. Which leads to the possibility of altering certain characters simply to meet the budget requirements.

[Il Divo]

I'm unshakably skeptical that this was not just a side effect of the fact that GoW series was a tremendously popular multiplayer shooter, and the first game was one of the earliest 360 games. The increasing sales are just something that happens as the install base and series popularity grows.

 

Has a Call of Duty game ever been outsold by it's predecessor?

 

 I'm wondering about this too. Was it actually said that Gears of War experienced an increase in sales due to its language filter? ​

[DaemionMoadrin]

 I'm wondering about this too. Was it actually said that Gears of War experienced an increase in sales due to its language filter? ​

 

Nope.