3411 réponses à ce sujet

[LoneWolf3905]

Exactly, like why do you think devs hate when people say "toggles are such a simple solution" lol

 

Some ppl just really don't understand how hard it is to make a game. Even with how much better our tech gets over the years.

[Lady Luminous]

Oh, nice. Make sure if you do to look into 999 also, since they're part of the same series. (it's also a great game; I'm undecided which is better) And they just announced a third and final one recently, which is exciting, since it was kinda on the rocks for a while.

thank you for making my day! I'm excited!

[Lady Luminous]

Exactly, like why do you think devs hate when people say "toggles are such a simple solution" lol

enough that I recall one of the higher-ups, may have been Gaider, making a post about exactly what has to be done to implement a toggle.

It adds weeks, if not months to a game. Time that they already don't have.

[AresKeith]

enough that I recall one of the higher-ups, may have been Gaider, making a post about exactly what has to be done to implement a toggle.

It adds weeks, if not months to a game. Time that they already don't have.

 

Time and eating up resources 

[Lady Luminous]

Time and eating up resources

Right. Resources too. Sadly we can't plant money trees in their lobby.

[Elhanan]

I take it then that you've not read BioWare's various comments on exactly how much extra work it creates to make a toggle then?

I'd suggest you do some research before making a request like this. What you are asking for is not simple.

Never have believed it was simple; too many kitties die that way.

However, as games are generally not simple anyway, adding something like this may be helpful, for both the Players and the company.

[AresKeith]

Never have believed it was simple; too many kitties die that way.

However, as games are generally not simple anyway, adding something like this may be helpful, for both the Players and the company.

 

It really isn't, it's time consuming 

[Lady Luminous]

Never have believed it was simple; too many kitties die that way.

However, as games are generally not simple anyway, adding something like this may be helpful, for both the Players and the company.

well if you're fine with waiting an extra year or two per game... Let's just say, most players aren't willing.

Or did you not see the riots that occured when the release of Inquisition was pushed back by merely a month.

[Elhanan]

well if you're fine with waiting an extra year or two per game... Let's just say, most players aren't willing.

Or did you not see the riots that occured when the release of Inquisition was pushed back by merely a month.

Actually, it was more than a year; they added races and some other requested implantations, much like this suggested Toggle.

[Lady Luminous]

Actually, it was more than a year; they added races and some other requested implantations, much like this suggested Toggle.

I was referring to the added month when it was released in November instead of September/October. The forums bloody exploded.

[Elhanan]

I was referring to the added month when it was released in November instead of September/October. The forums bloody exploded.

Yep, and a large reason for that was due to the extra year.

[Lady Luminous]

Yep, and a large reason for that was due to the extra year.

do you really want to go through all that again for the sake of a toggle? Because I damned well don't.

[DaemionMoadrin]

It wouldn't only consume time during production, it would also add time to each patch and bugfix because the game becomes more complex and testing for bugs takes longer then. Probably not much but it does add up.

There's also the problem of assigning devs to create such a toggle in the first place. If they are working on that, then they aren't working on something else. That means if they need 2 months to program that toggle, then the game will be released 4 months late because then they have to do their original job, too.

[Sully13]

one think that buggs me is just how explicit is explicit?

Is this?

LOOOK YOU CAN SEE ANKLES.

[Elhanan]

Yes; am willing to wait for a game to be released before playing it....

[Fandango]

one think that buggs me is just how explicit is explicit?

Here are the ESRB content descriptors:

## Alcohol Reference - Reference to and/or images of alcoholic beverages
## Animated Blood - Discolored and/or unrealistic depictions of blood
## Blood - Depictions of blood
## Blood and Gore - Depictions of blood or the mutilation of body parts
## Cartoon Violence - Violent actions involving cartoon-like situations and characters. May include violence where a character is unharmed after the action has been inflicted
## Comic Mischief - Depictions or dialogue involving slapstick or suggestive humor
## Crude Humor - Depictions or dialogue involving vulgar antics, including “bathroom” humor
## Drug Reference - Reference to and/or images of illegal drugs
## Fantasy Violence - Violent actions of a fantasy nature, involving human or non-human characters in situations easily distinguishable from real life
## Intense Violence - Graphic and realistic-looking depictions of physical conflict. May involve extreme and/or realistic blood, gore, weapons and depictions of human injury and death
## Language - Mild to moderate use of profanity
## Lyrics - Mild references to profanity, sexuality, violence, alcohol or drug use in music
## Mature Humor - Depictions or dialogue involving "adult" humor, including sexual references
## Nudity - Graphic or prolonged depictions of nudity
## Partial Nudity - Brief and/or mild depictions of nudity
## Real Gambling - Player can gamble, including betting or wagering real cash or currency
## Sexual Content - Non-explicit depictions of sexual behavior, possibly including partial nudity
## Sexual Themes - References to sex or sexuality
## Sexual Violence - Depictions of rape or other violent sexual acts
## Simulated Gambling - Player can gamble without betting or wagering real cash or currency
## Strong Language - Explicit and/or frequent use of profanity
## Strong Lyrics - Explicit and/or frequent references to profanity, sex, violence, alcohol or drug use in music
## Strong Sexual Content - Explicit and/or frequent depictions of sexual behavior, possibly including nudity
## Suggestive Themes - Mild provocative references or materials
## Tobacco Reference - Reference to and/or images of tobacco products
## Use of Alcohol - The consumption of alcoholic beverages
## Use of Drugs - The consumption or use of illegal drugs
## Use of Tobacco - The consumption of tobacco products
## Violence - Scenes involving aggressive conflict. May contain bloodless dismemberment
## Violent References - References to violent acts

As to what gets censored, that would depend entirely on the rating category. Question is, do BioWare develop an Early Childhood, Everyone, Everyone 10+ or Teen toggle?

[Sully13]

So no ankles? Raunchy.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Yes, that's another problem. What's explicit and what isn't? What needs to be filtered and what can stay? Do you go by ESRB standard? Do you use the standards of another country? Do you make up your own? What else do you need to change to make a toggle work? Rewrite dialogue? Change animations? Replace graphics? Create censored cutscenes?

 

I already mentioned it earlier, how do you hide nudity in a scene like Cassandra's where you are both naked and talking after having sex. Do you blur the offending body parts? Slap black censor bars on top of it? That would break the immersion. Do you change the camera angles? Do you wrap everyone in a sheet?

 

While some gamers might be willing to wait longer, the majority is not. BioWare is not going to make any money while they develop the game, so adding another 6 months is going to cost them a lot. Can they afford that? Will they have to change the MP store so they can profit more from it?

 

It's not as easy as it seems at first. To quote myself (again):
 

 

Imagine there is a car company. They make two lines of cars and you've driven all of them in the past and liked them well enough.

Now you are ecologically minded and request that they install an electric motor next to the fuel engine and give you a toggle to switch between the both at will. Your argument is that people who don't want it simply don't have to switch it on.

The problem is: It's still in the car. Optional doesn't mean free. It still had to be developed, it had to be built and tested, it had to be put into the car. For it to fit and work as it is supposed to, other components of the car had to be shuffled around. The car itself had to be changed to make it work. All that time and effort cost money and it's going to create more work down the road. But the company can't make their cars more expensive because no one would buy them then. How are they supposed to profit from that toggle? It's not much better for the customer either. The car weighs more than before and that costs them... even if they don't care about the electric motor at all.

 

If your counter argument is the existence of hybrid cars, then keep in mind that those aren't sold for the same price as standard cars. Most companies who offer them also have several lines of standard cars they sell, so they have more than one source of income. The marketshare of hybrid cars hovers around 1%. Not exactly lucrative.

 

Anyway, that's exactly what you are asking for.

 

[Spectr61]

It wouldn't only consume time during production, it would also add time to each patch and bugfix because the game becomes more complex and testing for bugs takes longer then. Probably not much but it does add up.
There's also the problem of assigning devs to create such a toggle in the first place. If they are working on that, then they aren't working on something else. That means if they need 2 months to program that toggle, then the game will be released 4 months late because then they have to do their original job, too.

This.

Comments from the pro-toggle crowd on just how this is beneficial for an "M" rated game?

[Elhanan]

No more convoluted than previous dialogue controls. And once it becomes SOP to include it in games, the more experience the Devs will have with the system.

[DaemionMoadrin]

No more convoluted than previous dialogue controls. And once it becomes SOP to include it in games, the more experience the Devs will have with the system.

 

What "previous dialogue controls" are you talking about?

[Laughing_Man]

This.

Comments from the pro-toggle crowd on just how this is beneficial for an "M" rated game?

 

Most of them would prefer the game to be changed to T or maybe lower.

 

The very concept of a game made for mature audience with mature content rankles their sensibilities.

 

Every word or action that isn't up to Victorian standards of prudishness causes them to cover their mouth in horror with their scented silk gloves.

[von uber]

So, references to acts of sexual violence are less vulgar to you than a little profanity? Astonishing!

I note that this is still unanswered.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Writers often manage to get crap past the radar, it's amazing what you can find even in kid/teen friendly media... so I don't really see them having a motivation to even consider a toggle.

 

 

[Elhanan]

I note that this is still unanswered.

Is still Ignored, as are some others.

But for some unfathomable reason, a poem recitation that is reminiscent of E.A. Poe is far less offensive and easier to experience than have someone try and depict it; swearing included. No Toggle required, either.