3411 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Gaining a wider audience appears to be a decent incentive to look into it. Also hope that mounted combat will evolve next; am guessing it was not all that easy to get them in the first place.

 

Gaining a wider audience simply through "purifying" the language seems a rather dubious prospect for a game franchise that sees the player gunning down hundreds of people for points, on top of possibly dealing with various themes that a content filter may not be able to cover up, like drug use, torture, rape, etc., much of the latter being covered in DA:O, despite its language. 

[Battlebloodmage]

I don't think the margin would be enough to be beneficial though. Specially if they cut contents to fund this feature.

Yup, between spending 1000 dollars to add a feature many people enjoy vs spending 1000 dollars to add a feature 5 people enjoy, then it should be obvious which they should add. Time itself is a resource, by spending time on one feature, even if they don't cost much would be an opportunity cost and prevent them from working on other features which could bring in even more people.

[Elhanan]

You are fine doing a "write in" campaign what I am saying is I doubt you will see a survey of "should we do this y/n". As for what Dawn of Seekers did for Horses, that was the first time for Dragon Age IP that horses were a part of the the franchise. I never stated you were incorrect, I am stating that the resources and the potential gains (in my opinion) are not worth it. 
 
My opinion in this thread, is there is not too many people that support this thing based on the arguments that are had. I could objectively see how many in this thread said yes and how many said no. The difference is based on my opinion I would not pursue that action because if there was a majority for it, my opinion would be swayed to that of yes. The "punishment" for doing this objective search is that I would have used my time (aka resources). So if you wish to make the argument otherwise then you are claiming my opinion has a bias, which would be an entirely different statement.
 
You cant say "people loved X and X didnt contain Y, Y would be a step in the right direction to restore it" if that was the case people could argue that GTA should go back to a top down view because people remember GTA2 so fondly.

Not only your opinion that I was ref, but as a long time forum member, am rather used to a vocal group stating that they are the majority in some issue. Whether or not I am in the minority or not does not define that an idea that could benefit future titles and Players is a good one or not.

Currently, there are fewer titles that I am personally willing to purchase due to increased ESRB content that are not as well contained as Bioware games. However, Bioware has also gotten more relaxed from DAO to DA2 to DAI. And if the franchise continues this trend, it may jeopardize future purchases. A Toggle would help prevent that for myself; maybe others like me for other various reasons.

I cannot see a down side to this; simply work for the Devs, but given what is known of game deveopment, that is the usual standard.

[Battlebloodmage]

Not only your opinion that I was ref, but as a long time forum member, am rather used to a vocal group stating that they are the majority in some issue. Whether or not I am in the minority or not does not define that an idea that could benefit future titles and Players is a good one or not.

Currently, there are fewer titles that I am personally willing to purchase due to increased ESRB content that are not as well contained as Bioware games. However, Bioware has also gotten more relaxed from DAO to DA2 to DAI. And if the franchise continues this trend, it may jeopardize future purchases. A Toggle would help prevent that for myself; maybe others like me for other various reasons.

I cannot see a down side to this; simply work for the Devs, but given what is known of game deveopment, that is the usual standard.

No, people have stated the downside many times, you just didn't listen.

 

Downside:

Time opportunity

Cost opportunity

Research how to implement filter properly

Different language packs

Extra disk space

Bug testing

 

Upside:

A few people who can enjoy this.

 

A few others like you is not a quantity measurement. Prove that it outweight the cost of investing in these features. So far, most people disagreed with you. The increased M rated contents have more to do with the changing time like how Simpsons was considered edgy back in the day but now even Family Guy is considered tamed if you watch shows like Brickleberry or South Park. 

[Bryan Johnson]

I cannot see a down side to this; simply work for the Devs, but given what is known of game deveopment, that is the usual standard.

More work aka more money aka more time is a pretty huge downside. This kind of argument could be made to support any kind of argument.

 

For example: There should be 100 companions in DAI. Since it will increase the appeal of the title, make it a more fulfilling experience and gain a wider audience. There is no downside but it will cause the devs to do more work.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I cannot see a down side to this; simply work for the Devs, but given what is known of game deveopment, that is the usual standard.

 

Clear your ignore list and read all the posts in this thread you missed. They'll explain the downside to you.

[Andres Hendrix]

OP, it's just not worth the effort, I'm a sociologist, and paying a professional to make up a survey, implement said instrument, and then have them examine and interpret the data after that, is costly. From what Bryan is saying, it is costly to implement censorship and toggles to begin with. It looks like Bioware would put in capital, and not make a profit out of it. I think that the majority (not all) of the people, who would be against nudity in games, are not the type of people who buy video games in the first place. So your idea is not marketable.

You are advocating a type of censorship, and I think it is rather dubious. This is why I think what you are saying is dubious; nudity is not inherently sexual... Neither is being clothed, yet there is clothed heavy petting. So any arguable peeve that you have must be with sexual intercourse itself. Well intercourse is not actually depicted in Bioware games, it is only ever implied, what we see are either pg-13 'sex' scenes (edited rolling around, or simple caressing; the Jack scene in ME2 was so ambiguous that fans argued that her and Shepard only 'made out' before the Collector's base), or a purely fade to black type of deal. Bioware has never even depicted exposed genitals let alone copulation in their games. At most, we see an exposed nipple, or the side of a buttock, both of these things are not inherently sexual, what they add is a small layer of realism, because people who are in a romance, and who desire one another, usually get naked when they make love, or have sex etc. So again, the act is only implied.  I would like some clarification OP, would you really accept the scenes if the stray nipple, or buttock had some layer of cloth put on it? Or would you want the scene removed entierly?

[Helios969]

There is a current survey from Origin that I mentioned the possible feature. And have no idea what Dawn of the Seeker did for horses, but DAO had a lack of profanity and is still held in great regard by many gamers. A Toggle could possibly restore part of that experience for those using a filter.

No straw poll, as stats can be made to dance by whomever. And I do not mind being in the minority if that is the case; does not equate to being wrong or incorrect. But it would be rather sad if the idea was shrugged away by opinion; not objective research and study.

So go out there and conduct an objective study...with transparent methodology.  Or better yet get a significant number of people interested in such a toggle to preorder the game with said toggle a condition to the preorder.  If this really matters to you then you'll do something other than demand Bioware invest the time and resources to determine the profitability...with the cost being past on to we the consumers in either higher costs or lost game/story opportunities.

[Spacepunk01]

I recently posted this on my blog, and I wanted to share it here as well.

 

 

An Open Letter to Bioware,

 

Your games (specifically the Mass Effect and Dragon Age Trilogies) are among the finest action-RPGs on the market. In anticipation of Mass Effect: Andromeda, I feel compelled to write openly on behalf of a minority demographic your team may not be aware of: players who love the story and action elements of the game but don’t care for the explicit content. I’m asking on behalf of myself and others for you to add a feature in the settings of your future titles allowing players to set which explicit content they want displayed in the games—namely language, gore, and sexual content.

 

My reasons for wanting to limit my own exposure to explicit content are personal. Strangers don’t have to understand my reasons for them to be valid.

 

Let me reiterate my stance that this is a personal choice. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong for any other person to view or enjoy this content, but that as for myself I know I want to avoid it, and that I can enjoy your future action-RPGs much more without it. I hope I am not opening myself and others up to derision by asking for this concession, but I hope you will seriously consider implementing three separate toggles in the settings of your future games to control language, gore, and sexuality. Some games have given these options in the past, but I challenge you to set an industry standard by doing this with your A-list, flagship titles. Show that you care about all of your fans, not just the majority, and other companies will follow.

 

EDIT: Some commentors here don't seem to have read the letter carefully, which might be my fault because it's kind of long. But just to be clear, I'm not in any way asking for them to reduce the language, sexual content, or gore from future games. I am not making any attempt at cencorship. I'm simply asking for the option to turn off explicit content when I play, and I know I'm not alone in wanting such an option.

 

EDIT: "Gore" and "violence" are not the same thing, please be aware of the distinction.

 

Explicit content. Like murdering someone? Maybe we should have a fade to black feature whenever you kill someone in the game as well. Is the sight of gore & blood - or the sound of strong language worse than the intentional act of killing another sentient being? There's a lot of killing in this game, yet people like you have a problem with nudity, gore and strong language? I am always surprised that people so easily tolerate killing, but are too sensitive when it comes to trivialities like cursing, nudity and gore.

 

I ask everyone to think carefully about this. They ask for a choice, and that's fair enough. But if we start to accommodate these sorts of requests it will lead us down a path where more and more people who are "offended" by mature content is allowed to dictate the direction of the industry. In an age of political correctness we have to stand up for the freedom of expression in art. No artist will ever - or should ever change his painting because a few people find it too offensive to watch.

 

BioWare, don't accommodate these kinds of requests. People who tolerate killing should also have the gut to tolerate some nudity, even gore. When a person says that naked skin is too much, but is just fine with someone being killed, then this person has lost credibility. What does it mean to say that you're okey with killing, as long as you don't have to see the "creepy" side of it?  

 

I don't think you have provided us any good reasons for why BioWare should accept this. Rather, you've demonstrated for us your irrationality. I advice the OP to consider another experience. Mass Effect is obviously too harsh for you.

[Il Divo]

So go out there and conduct an objective study...with transparent methodology.  Or better yet get a significant number of people interested in such a toggle to preorder the game with said toggle a condition to the preorder.  If this really matters to you then you'll do something other than demand Bioware invest the time and resources to determine the profitability...with the cost being past on to we the consumers in either higher costs or lost game/story opportunities.

 

That's what I keep saying. For someone so remarkably single-minded in his pursuit of a toggle, it's pretty amusing how unwilling he is to put any actual effort into building support for this feature, which is how anyone hoping to build a support group would approach it. ​

[Chealec]

Clear your ignore list and read all the posts in this thread you missed. They'll explain the downside to you.

 

Amen to that.

[Chealec]

I've a feeling this may come in handy should this thread progress much further:

 

 

Please feel free to simply quote this post in future to save time

[Il Divo]

^Always been one of my favorites.

[Il Divo]

No, people have stated the downside many times, you just didn't listen.

 

Downside:

Time opportunity

Cost opportunity

Research how to implement filter properly

Different language packs

Extra disk space

Bug testing

 

Upside:

A few people who can enjoy this.

 

A few others like you is not a quantity measurement. Prove that it outweight the cost of investing in these features. So far, most people disagreed with you. The increased M rated contents have more to do with the changing time like how Simpsons was considered edgy back in the day but now even Family Guy is considered tamed if you watch shows like Brickleberry or South Park. 

 

Agreed. Even with a research budget, the goal is to identify features which will improve game sales. If you spend 2 months exploring whether to add a language filter and conclude that it's not worth the cost, you've gotten absolutely nothing for your investment. You'd be making the same game as if you'd just assumed the language filter crowd wasn't worth it, but without any of the research costs thrown into the picture.

[Elhanan]

More work aka more money aka more time is a pretty huge downside. This kind of argument could be made to support any kind of argument.
 
For example: There should be 100 companions in DAI. Since it will increase the appeal of the title, make it a more fulfilling experience and gain a wider audience. There is no downside but it will cause the devs to do more work.

It may require more work initially as it is a new feature, but this was the case to everything that had to developed for the first time And as I understand, many features had to be re-designed on the new engine; nt simply cut & pasted from other past engines.

If more work and cost were the determining factors, then few features would be include. And the game itself would not evolve due to increased economic concerns, yet DAI is an example of progress; not regression (eg; nine Companions, larger than DAO and DA2 combined, 2 VO's per gender, mounts, etc).

[DaemionMoadrin]

It may require more work initially as it is a new feature, but this was the case to everything that had to developed for the first time And as I understand, many features had to be re-designed on the new engine; nt simply cut & pasted from other past engines.

If more work and cost were the determining factors, then few features would be include. And the game itself would not evolve due to increased economic concerns, yet DAI is an example of progress; not regression (eg; nine Companions, larger than DAO and DA2 combined, 2 VO's per gender, mounts, etc).

 

Those are all features that gamers asked for and that sell. Your toggle isn't one of those.

[Elhanan]

Explicit content. Like murdering someone? Maybe we should have a fade to black feature whenever you kill someone in the game as well. Is the sight of gore & blood - or the sound of strong language worse than the intentional act of killing another sentient being? There's a lot of killing in this game, yet people like you have a problem with nudity, gore and strong language? I am always surprised that people so easily tolerate killing, but are too sensitive when it comes to trivialities like cursing, nudity and gore.
 
I ask everyone to think carefully about this. They ask for a choice, and that's fair enough. But if we start to accommodate these sorts of requests it will lead us down a path where more and more people who are "offended" by mature content is allowed to dictate the direction of the industry. In an age of political correctness we have to stand up for the freedom of expression in art. No artist will ever - or should ever change his painting because a few people find it too offensive to watch.
 
BioWare, don't accommodate these kinds of requests. People who tolerate killing should also have the gut to tolerate some nudity, even gore. When a person says that naked skin is too much, but is just fine with someone being killed, then this person has lost credibility. What does it mean to say that you're okey with killing, as long as you don't have to see the "creepy" side of it?  
 
I don't think you have provided us any good reasons for why BioWare should accept this. Rather, you've demonstrated for us your irrationality. I advice the OP to consider another experience. Mass Effect is obviously too harsh for you.

If one is supposed to be calloused enough to love it or leave it for all content, then there would be no reasons for any storied or item content included in patches; bug fixes only. No storage chests, no tinting or crafting additions. No free DLC endings for ME3. No new armors or schematics; no new arms. Etc

Bioware allows one to lessen other content settings; a language Toggle appears to be another feature to be included into the mix.

[KaiserShep]

But adding things like that is an investment in a story-based game world. A content filter isn't. Working towards shielding people away from content is basically the opposite of working to add more characters and gameplay elements.

[Elhanan]

But adding things like that is an investment in a story-based game world. A content filter isn't. Working towards shielding people away from content is basically the opposite of working to add more characters and gameplay elements.

Not if one desires said feature. I also prefer less Gore, and am quite pleased this option to reduce the virtual violence is included. Prefer lesser Effect Quality settings; helps me to avoid triggering vertigo related issues.

Sometimes, less is more.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Not if one desires said feature. I also prefer less Gore, and am quite pleased this option to reduce the virtual violence is included. Prefer lesser Effect Quality settings; helps me to avoid triggering vertigo related issues.

Sometimes, less is more.

 

The problem is, you are almost alone with that request. Do you honestly believe a multi-million dollar project will be changed to please you? Unless you can prove that there is a demand for that this discussion is going nowhere.

 

Create a poll, ask people to vote in it, post in other forums and garner support. Show us and BioWare that investing those resources will be profitable.

 

Until then you're just wasting everyone's time in this thread.

[Chealec]

I want more than 400 billion star systems in MEA - it's been done to good effect in other games:

 

https://www.elitedangerous.com/

http://www.no-mans-sky.com/

 

I think BioWare should look into it.

[Bryan Johnson]

It may require more work initially as it is a new feature, but this was the case to everything that had to developed for the first time And as I understand, many features had to be re-designed on the new engine; nt simply cut & pasted from other past engines.

If more work and cost were the determining factors, then few features would be include. And the game itself would not evolve due to increased economic concerns, yet DAI is an example of progress; not regression (eg; nine Companions, larger than DAO and DA2 combined, 2 VO's per gender, mounts, etc).

I suggest you go back and read my earlier posts of what I imagine would be the actual work of implementing this type of thing. Then please tell me what of that work would actually be reusable. Short answer this is not a 1 time do it and its done. The reusable part, UI element, and hook to say enabled or disabled (this isnt a ton of work to begin with). The work that does take a lot of time, is setting up alternatives (would have to do for every line), re-recording (would have to do every line). We also know how hilarious bad voice recognition can be, so that is certainly not an option to do it dynamically.

[BloodySpirit]

If there are people in situations when people generally don't have any clothes on (showering, sex), then don't put them in underwear, goddamit. This should be a mature series, people who are playing this are usually used to the nude bodies of both sexes, and generally the main hero and romance options are very attractive people, so there isn't a factor of being grossed out.

 

It really breaks the immersion when there is a passionate sex scene and both have their underwear during and after. Like c'mon, people will probably die very violently sometimes during this game, so why not show the better part of life with the same opennes as the worse part.

[WinterRaven]

This is one of the few times a completely agree with G.R.R. Martin. You want to be able to kill people in the most imaginative ways possible. You wan't realistic rag doll physicals, etc. I don't think anyone would be the slightest bit upset if they showed a new system similar to Sniper Elite that showed how the trauma spread on a killing blow. People expect hyper realistic or at least R rated move depictions of violence and gritty "realistic" fighting and survival. 

 

 

But boobs are too much.

 

 

This is a story, I want my female and male characters in realistic gear. I want nothing overly sexualized. But Dammit. If my character is starting to fool around with someone, unless they are a lore based nevernude. I better not see any underwear! Does that mean I want to see digital penetration and nether bits going at it? No, frankly I can have sex with my SO or look at porn for that. But any amount of nudity I'd expect to see in a rated R movie I'd expect to see these games. 

[Han Shot First]

This is one of the few times a completely agree with G.R.R. Martin. You want to be able to kill people in the most imaginative ways possible. You wan't realistic rag doll physicals, etc. I don't think anyone would be the slightest bit upset if they showed a new system similar to Sniper Elite that showed how the trauma spread on a killing blow. People expect hyper realistic or at least R rated move depictions of violence and gritty "realistic" fighting and survival. 

 

 

But boobs are too much.

 

 

To be fair, that is really only an opinion held by a vocal minority. These sort of topics always garner much more of a negative response from the fanbase than people agreeing with the OP. It is part of the reason also why this thread is so long. The more controversial the topic, the longer the thread. 

 

The person who created this thread also did ask for a gore filter as well, so it wouldn't be fair to lump him or her in with the people who are offended by nudity but not portrayals of violence.