3411 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

Honestly, if BW wants to add a toggle, great.  I don't really care.

 

My irritation stems more from the principle of the thing, and people's seeming inability to adopt personal responsibility for the media they consume and censor themselves.

 

To be fair, it's more about giving people greater choice in how they consume content. I'm not sure at what point in the world that became a bad thing when there is no legitimate censoring of content going on for people who want the full mature content experience(which I will point out that I would opt for the full mature content).

 

It's just as has already been mentioned many times in this thread, the choice wont be given if BioWare doesn't think that it's financially viable. Right now, it's on anybody who wants the toggle to prove that there is a market worth looking into.

[Heathen Oxman]

To be fair, it's more about giving people greater choice in how they consume content. I'm not sure at what point in the world that became a bad thing when there is no legitimate censoring of content going on for people who want the full mature content experience(which I will point out that I would opt for the full mature content).

 

It's just as has already been mentioned many times in this thread, the choice wont be given if BioWare doesn't think that it's financially viable. Right now, it's on anybody who wants the toggle to prove that there is a market worth looking into.

 

People already have that choice.

 

They can simply not consume content with "mature" themes.  It's completely free, and it doesn't impose demands on anyone's finances, time, or effort.

 

I don't like sex scenes; therefore, I go get a beer when one comes on.  It's a lot more reasonable and cost effective than expecting others to create a "toggle" for my personal convenience.

[Spectr61]

But discussing the filter toggle goes against the perceived holy writ of a developer. Closing the thread is the only option to their thought as their arguments begin and end on the word of an authority figure, that couldn't possibly be a fallacy.

There is no filter toggle.

Calling it such only creates an impression that there is a MEA filter toggle.

I hope there never is such additional censorship in a "M" rated MEA.

[Cyonan]

People already have that choice.

 

They can simply not consume content with "mature" themes.  It's completely free, and it doesn't impose demands on anyone's finances, time, or effort.

 

I don't like sex scenes; therefore, I go get a beer when one comes on.  It's a lot more reasonable and cost effective than expecting others to create a "toggle" for my personal convenience.

 

Sex scenes are very isolated things. How are people supposed to do that for gore or language?

 

A content filter toggle is just another feature that somebody is asking for. The ME:A forums are filled with people asking for various features because that's about all we have to discuss right now given how little information we know about the game.

 

As I said before, I prefer to have the full mature content experience but if turned out that there actually was a market for this particular thing then I don't see why BioWare shouldn't add it. We aren't gonna know if there's a market if nobody ever says anything about wanting it.

[Elhanan]

People already have that choice.
 
They can simply not consume content with "mature" themes.  It's completely free, and it doesn't impose demands on anyone's finances, time, or effort.
 
I don't like sex scenes; therefore, I go get a beer when one comes on.  It's a lot more reasonable and cost effective than expecting others to create a "toggle" for my personal convenience.

Careful when you leave that there in no interrupt as in ME3. Or you could escape the scene unless one cannot. Or use a Toggle, if included.

Hardly believe anyone here is expecting or demanding anything; that seems to be coming from the crowd that wishes me to remain in my chair and live with it.

But Bioware is big on being inclusive; hope it also falls on those that like choices in content.

[Pasquale1234]

I'm an Ace.
 
I find sexual situations boring at best, and gag-inducing at worst.
 
I deal with this in BW games by either not pursuing romances, going after romances that do not feature sex scenes, or by getting up to get another beer while my character is getting his freak on.  Additionally, it helps me to keep in mind that 99% of the population is sexual and think that shooting DNA at each other to make babies  is a worthwhile pursuit; therefore, sex will most likely creep into popular entertainment.
 
I do not require toggles to protect my delicate sensibilities.

Aye, but it still gets really, really old since it permeates so much popular media. If you fast-forward through all of the sex scenes in some programs, there's not much left. You'd think that after having overpopulated a planet or ten, evolutionary forces would start to lessen the need to breed (i.e., the sex drive would weaken).

But there are other reasons why I prefer fade-to-black:

- I play RPGs to role-play a character, not watch a cinematic story. I prefer fewer cinematics in general, and more room to fill in the details and actively participate in creating the story.

- Some of what I've seen goes directly into the depths of uncanny valley. I don't want to see jiggle physics, but at the same time I don't care to see static representations of body parts that should not be static.

- And I can't help but think about what it might be like to work at a studio where artists and animators are creating this stuff. It could create an environment that might be very uncomfortable for some people, and I just can't see the results as being worthwhile.

Bleah.

[Chealec]

... You'd think that after having overpopulated a planet or ten, evolutionary forces would start to lessen the need to breed (i.e., the sex drive would weaken).

...

 

Not in the least, the desire to have children doesn't necessarily correlate with the desire to have sex.

[wright1978]

Sex scenes are very isolated things. How are people supposed to do that for gore or language?
 
A content filter toggle is just another feature that somebody is asking for. The ME:A forums are filled with people asking for various features because that's about all we have to discuss right now given how little information we know about the game.
 
As I said before, I prefer to have the full mature content experience but if turned out that there actually was a market for this particular thing then I don't see why BioWare shouldn't add it. We aren't gonna know if there's a market if nobody ever says anything about wanting it.

An obvious reason not to add it might be cost even if by some miracle there is some market for it. Personally as someone who wants the full mature experience, I also don't want other aspects of that experience cut to introduce toggle filters.
There's also the simple notion of artistic right to build a game world to meet their vision, stripping out visual and audio might conflict with the setting they want to convey.

[In Exile]

- I play RPGs to role-play a character, not watch a cinematic story. I prefer fewer cinematics in general, and more room to fill in the details and actively participate in creating the story.

 

But here is the issue - you can easily have this scene without any cinematics in the traditional sense. I get that you like outright headcanon (so you don't want these interactions to even be onscreen) but once you accept that people do want these interactions on screen, you run into an issue of what you're going to show. And I don't mean show in the nudity sense, but rather in what sort of variety you're going to have to the human interactions you portray. And RPGs that devolve into grave robbery and monster slaughtering become pretty empty pretty fast.

 

There's value - real, storytelling value - in portraying things like nudity. I absolutely agree with you that fade to black - in the sense of not showing actual sex - is better than showing sex. But that's really different from showing nudity.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Aye, but it still gets really, really old since it permeates so much popular media. If you fast-forward through all of the sex scenes in some programs, there's not much left. You'd think that after having overpopulated a planet or ten, evolutionary forces would start to lessen the need to breed (i.e., the sex drive would weaken).
 

 

Two things.

 

If you subtract the sex scenes from BioWare games, is there really not much left? Otherwise you're bringing examples of other media into this  and that's not exactly going to prove anything. I'm sure if I look long enough I can find some sci-fi series that contains a 2min sex scene in 100+ hours of story... or I could simply use ME. We don't really need to build strawmen here.

 

You can't overpopulate a planet. As it is a closed system, you only have access to the resources that are there. Those resources don't allow you to go beyond your limits. Let's say Earth can sustain a stable population of 12 billion people at maximum. You can't go beyond that because there are no resources left for additional people. If the birth rates were to go up, other people would have to die to free up the necessary resources and massive increases in death rates would require an epidemic or genocide. For each human born beyond the limit another one has to die, thus keeping the population stable.

You can only destroy the environment for short term benefits and doom your species to extinction by decreasing the amount of available resources so the current population can't be sustained. For a brief moment you'd have some sort of overpopulation but that corrects itself within a generation. Usually far more extreme than necessary, too.

[Cyonan]

An obvious reason not to add it might be cost even if by some miracle there is some market for it. Personally as someone who wants the full mature experience, I also don't want other aspects of that experience cut to introduce toggle filters.
There's also the simple notion of artistic right to build a game world to meet their vision, stripping out visual and audio might conflict with the setting they want to convey.

 

That's part of determining if there is a market for it. When I say that, I mean that it's something that enough people want in the game that it becomes profitable and is something a good amount of your customers want.

 

You may personally not want the toggle over something else, but then somebody like Elhanan probably wouldn't want that something else over the toggle. Then I might not want either the toggle or your something else over a 3rd thing that I want. Who is to say which of the three should be added?

 

After the end of Mass Effect 3, I don't see how "artistic right" is even much of an argument around here. It's pretty obvious BioWare is willing to change their vision for the fans, and many of us had no problems when they did it then.

[Pasquale1234]

Two things.
 
If you subtract the sex scenes from BioWare games, is there really not much left? Otherwise you're bringing examples of other media into this  and that's not exactly going to prove anything. I'm sure if I look long enough I can find some sci-fi series that contains a 2min sex scene in 100+ hours of story... or I could simply use ME. We don't really need to build strawmen here.

No strawmen built, at least not by me. I was very clear that I was talking about other programs.

You can't overpopulate a planet. As it is a closed system, you only have access to the resources that are there.

But you can create a population size that is unsustainable. You can also pollute a planet to the point where it can no longer sustain its population. For an example in ME, revisit Thane's conversation about his home world in ME2.

[Sartoz]

Says pretty much everyone with an aversion to underwear, it seems.

Well, they'll have to do some research.  And possibly have quick reflexes.  It's not a perfect solution, but I do think it's the best compromise.

 

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Naw...

Let's stick with the simple. It's rated M with a proper description of content. You either buy it as is or you don't, if the content decription offends.

 

Simple binary solution.

 
 

[Sartoz]

Yeah i think swear filters are a level of ridiculous. Surely they have to get rid of the shooting too, maybe tranquilisers instead is what they want.

 

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LOL!

The man from U.N.C.L.E is suitable for viewing then...

[Pasquale1234]

But here is the issue - you can easily have this scene without any cinematics in the traditional sense. I get that you like outright headcanon (so you don't want these interactions to even be onscreen) but once you accept that people do want these interactions on screen, you run into an issue of what you're going to show. And I don't mean show in the nudity sense, but rather in what sort of variety you're going to have to the human interactions you portray. And RPGs that devolve into grave robbery and monster slaughtering become pretty empty pretty fast.

I understand that other people have other preferences. I'm stating my own.

And for me, less is more. More engaging, more immersive, more compelling, more defining for my character.

[goishen]

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LOL!

The man from U.N.C.L.E is suitable for viewing then...

 

 

Or the A Team. 

 

They could blow those bad guys up from one side to the other.   They'd always get up, cough a couple'a times, then run off screen.

 

THIS IS WHAT I'M SICK OF. This is one reason why I love your games.  Your games are not this.

[In Exile]

I understand that other people have other preferences. I'm stating my own.

And for me, less is more. More engaging, more immersive, more compelling, more defining for my character.

 

I appreciate that point. I just bristled slightly at "I play RPGs to role-play a character, not watch a cinematic story." I think many of us do that, and the debate is on what exactly makes things more immersive, compelling and defining.

[KaiserShep]

I have to say, my addiction to movies makes me love BioWare's penchant for the more cinematic experience. 

[Sartoz]

I understand that other people have other preferences. I'm stating my own.

And for me, less is more. More engaging, more immersive, more compelling, more defining for my character.

 

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Implied, then, is the assumption that less cinematics allows for the opportunity to pour in more effort in the story... etc. But, is that really true?

 

For example: Bio can view it as a means to cut cost with a "thank you very much" for your support (ie: creating cinematics is expensive)..

 

One, easily forgets, that MEA is an aRPG and the "rich story" is a marketing sleight of hand.. Violence, combat  and romance is the soul of a Mass Effect game. Cinematics and dialogue only adds the illusion of a RPG game with an audio visual "personal touch" cut-scene(s). 

 

Less, then, is the equivalent of viewing your more as a comic's ballon text.  Which is a silly idea.  Have the proponents of less Cinematics explained how the more in-depth characters can be developed with no Cinematic dialogue? How would that work? Can you still have an Action RPG? Anyone? 'Cause I'm thinking game pacing will come to a stop = boring game play... or no play until the more is read from a static screen.

 

Or if you say, "cut out the romance/sex Cinematics"  to allow for more. Well,  then I will point out that you have effectively lobotomized a Bio game.

 

Just wonndering how more can be implememted successfully with less.

[Felis Menari]

If there's going to be options for censorship, I also want the option to have extremely graphic gore and sex scenes. Make it happen, Bioware!

[Il Divo]

...without taking content from anyone else. 

 

This has been deconstructed quite a few times in this thread already. The "it doesn't affect you" argument is ultimately a red herring.

 

Gaider himself a while back went into the futility of the "it's optional!" argument, as I recall.

[Elhanan]

If there's going to be options for censorship, I also want the option to have extremely graphic gore and sex scenes. Make it happen, Bioware!

There is/ was another thread for that debate.

[Elhanan]

This has been deconstructed quite a few times in this thread already. The "it doesn't affect you" argument is ultimately a red herring.
 
Gaider himself a while back went into the futility of the "it's optional!" argument, as I recall.

Not in the launched version. Some material is always cut and left on the floor, but that is generally not included in the Vanilla experience. One should not equate Alpha to Beta to Gold.

[Il Divo]

Not in the launched version. Some material is always cut and left on the floor, but that is generally not included in the Vanilla experience. One should not equate Alpha to Beta to Gold.

 

​As a consumer, I pursue what benefits my experience, not others. I don't have a responsibility to get you your language toggle.

 

You should probably read up on opportunity costs. It's part of the reason why your arguments are so lacking.

[Caldyrvan]

I still do not see the point. Still such a filter would feel like chicken without skin. For me it would still be tasty but will always get the feeling i am missing something, Hell it´s part of it. And now please do not tell me "he at least you have the option to remove the skin" ... All people I met that do that were suspicious ones