3411 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Am content with a mature dialogue of the topics of war, rape, sex, romance, etc; do not wish to see it illustrated. Am good with witty banter, and the fine writing of the vast majority of Bioware titles, but do not require profanity, esp when it breaks character or lore.

Prefer to include those asterisks previously mentioned, and let intelligent Players gather the meaning themselves.

But if they're not illustrated (focusing on the negatives for the moment), then they're sanitised. Their visceral horror - the very thing that makes them such awful crimes - is missing.

And on the flipside, when the tender moments are glossed over, the powerfulness of the scene is undercut.

[Elhanan]

But if they're not illustrated (focusing on the negatives for the moment), then they're sanitised. Their visceral horror - the very thing that makes them such awful crimes - is missing.

And on the flipside, when the tender moments are glossed over, the powerfulness of the scene is undercut.

Tender moments do not require nudity, or at least in my experience. Was fully clothed when I proposed, experienced the birth of my daughter, watch the sunrise with a special someone, etc. While nudity was involved with the creation of my child, it cannot compare with so many other memories.

[Lady Artifice]

Because a game is labeled Mature does not mean all the content within is mature. And it does not mean that all the content is accepted at face value. These forums are full of examples, I assure everyone. Be it mechanics, settings, story, romances, etc, folks will not agree on it all.

Personally, do not wish to hear obscenities, so a way to remove them from my content is an idea I can support. Others that want more Quickslots; support them, too. And if folks do not wish to support this idea, am OK with that, but find it a bit myopic for those that argue against it simply because others want it.

 

Who do you think is arguing against it because other people want it? Many of us are pretty capable of detesting this idea for it's own sake. 

[KaiserShep]

Just have the nudity cutscenes get overlaid with noise like an old school VCR porn tape that forces you to decipher the naughty things like a magic eye poster.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Was not against Bioware patching problems; was defending the notion that some of those with issues could not play the game. Some folks have bugs & glitches, and needed help. But some were saying that the basic mechanics were unplayable, and I offered myself as evidence that was unlikely.

 

You still don't get it. You aren't evidence of anything. There were hundreds of people with legitimate issues and you simply said: Those issues aren't real because they don't affect me.

It wasn't about "unplayable", it was about suboptimal controls. Even after changing the key bindings the controls were lacking because they were designed with a controller in mind and that just didn't work well with keyboard & mouse. (Not sure if that changed since I didn't touch DA:I again)

You spend more than half of your playtime in pause, you basically skip most of those issues because you have a different playstyle. Even if you didn't, why do you believe your experiences disprove the experiences of other players? Do you think there are no other people with different disabilities, illnesses or simply other physical limits than you?

Like here you didn't stop there either. Page after page you repeated yourself and defended the controls, despite the fact that the thread was created by BioWare to address the existing and aknowledged issues with them.

 

Arguing with you about your toggle idea isn't personal, it is based on my experience and knowledge about software development and other things.

 

Honestly, creating a poll and posting in forums shouldn't be too hard for you... since you are already posting here and setting up a poll can be done in a few minutes. Why aren't you doing it if you believe there is a market for mature games with content filters? You always claim to support this idea ... but where is your support? This spam here can't be all. If you can't even spare ten minutes creating a poll, then what's your support worth in the end?

 

Go here and create the poll: https://strawpoll.me/  Or pick any other similiar site.

 

I don't even expect you to make the options clear or list the consequences of each. I fully expect you to create an utterly biased poll because you are good at this, you have a way with words.

 

Just do it and then present it and let people vote. If you get enough votes, you have something substantial to present to BioWare.

 

But until you do? You're just spamming in this thread.

[In Exile]

Tender moments do not require nudity, or at least in my experience. Was fully clothed when I proposed, experienced the birth of my daughter, watch the sunrise with a special someone, etc. While nudity was involved with the creation of my child, it cannot compare with so many other memories.

 

I didn't say they require nudity. But the first time one is naked - and vulnerable - with another person is a significant moment. Even if it doesn't matter to you, that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter to others. So what you're arguing for is also imposing a particular view of tenderness, and a particular type of scene. That view of intimacy, well...

[Elhanan]

And the comprehension of some posters hasn't gotten any better since Christmas.

Do not present myself as proof, but as evidence that the controls are viable. How I play is my own business. And honesty is not the forte of many being Ignored.

[Elhanan]

I didn't say they require nudity. But the first time one is naked - and vulnerable - with another person is a significant moment. Even if it doesn't matter to you, that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter to others. So what you're arguing for is also imposing a particular view of tenderness, and a particular type of scene. That view of intimacy, well...

Evidence on the internet would suggest that most Players are not viewing nudity for the first time, though their characters may be. And if it matter to them anyway, they can leave the filter off as default. Not imposing anything on anyone; each Player gets to choose what they prefer.

[DaemionMoadrin]

And the comprehension of some posters hasn't gotten any better since Christmas.

Do not present myself as proof, but as evidence that the controls are viable. How I play is my own business. And honesty is not the forte of many being Ignored.

 

Don't evade and change the topic. Are you going to create a poll or not?

 

Btw... you might want to look into the definition of proof and evidence, could be educational.

[Lady Artifice]

And the comprehension of some posters hasn't gotten any better since Christmas.

Do not present myself as proof, but as evidence that the controls are viable. How I play is my own business. And honesty is not the forte of many being Ignored.

 

Well, that wasn't passive aggressive or anything. 

[In Exile]

Evidence on the internet would suggest that most Players are not viewing nudity for the first time, though their characters may be. And if it matter to them anyway, they can leave the filter off as default. Not imposing anything on anyone; each Player gets to choose what they prefer.

 

But you are imposing - because these scenes can't just happen in a vacuum. Developers suddenly can't just reveal plot critical information people will skip over - or important background - due to a toggle. You're asking for the scenes to be made superflous, or removed. And it's the same, turning it back around, with the gruesome portrayals of violence, etc. Nothing can happen in those scenes, so toggle'd players don't miss out.

[Steelcan]

oh this takes me back

[Elhanan]

But you are imposing - because these scenes can't just happen in a vacuum. Developers suddenly can't just reveal plot critical information people will skip over - or important background - due to a toggle. You're asking for the scenes to be made superflous, or removed. And it's the same, turning it back around, with the gruesome portrayals of violence, etc. Nothing can happen in those scenes, so toggle'd players don't miss out.

Actually, the OP is asking for a Nudity Toggle; am fine with allowing every scene to be Escapable. But I support the idea if it is viable.

[Steelcan]

Actually, the OP is asking for a Nudity Toggle; am fine with allowing every scene to be Escapable. But I support the idea if it is viable.

which it isn't

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Instead of going back and forth about the toggle, why don't we discuss more achievable ways for making as many fans as possible happy with the level of these kinds of things? 

[Steelcan]

Instead of going back and forth about the toggle, why don't we discuss more achievable ways for making as many fans as possible happy with the level of these kinds of things? 

because the level they are currently at is perfectly fine for the majority of fans, hell given the reaction to the lack of sex scene for Josephine I wouldn't be surprised if BioWare could go a little more explicit.

 

Same goes for gore

[Battlebloodmage]

Instead of going back and forth about the toggle, why don't we discuss more achievable ways for making as many fans as possible happy with the level of these kinds of things? 

That burden falls onto the people who want this feature. If they can think of a way to bypass the cost in both time and resource then go ahead. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That burden falls onto the people who want this feature. If they can think of a way to bypass the cost in both time and resource then go ahead. 

Well, to bring up suggestions I wrote earlier in this thread but nobody replied to:

 

Violence: For players who are averse to killing, Bioware could bring in the use of non-lethal rounds, like with the Anti-Thorian Gas grenade upgrade. It could lead to interesting roleplaying opportunities, like for example people having different opinions of you depending on if you kill or incapacitate.

 

Gore: Gore toggles have existed for years and Bioware has even used them in their Dragon Age games, including Dragon Age: Inquisition which is on the same engine that Mass Effect: Andromeda would be. So all the pieces for it already exist, and just need some tweaking. 

 

Nudity: The best way Bioware could appease both sides on this front is to do what they did in Dragon Age: Inquisition, which is have some romances have the sex scene be optional or leaving the level of physical intimacy ambiguous. That way people who want to experience the romances but don't like nudity can since there would be ones without mandatory sex scenes.

 

Language: Bioware could probably address this in two ways. First, have companions who don't swear or use profanity as well as ones that do, and secondly have a dialogue path of the protagonist that doesn't and another that does. With this, a player that doesn't like it can at least have their squad not talk like that. 

 

All these things are things Bioware has already done in the past, so it is doubtful they are as resource-expensive a toggle for all this would be and yet would net similar results. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Well, to bring up suggestions I wrote earlier in this thread but nobody replied to:

 

Violence: For players who are averse to killing, Bioware could bring in the use of non-lethal rounds, like with the Anti-Thorian Gas grenade upgrade. It could lead to interesting roleplaying opportunities, like for example people having different opinions of you depending on if you kill or incapacitate.

 

Gore: Gore toggles have existed for years and Bioware has even used them in their Dragon Age games, including Dragon Age: Inquisition which is on the same engine that Mass Effect: Andromeda would be. So it can be done quite easily since all the pieces for it already exist, and just need some tweaking. 

 

Nudity: The best way Bioware could appease both sides on this front is to do what they did in Dragon Age: Inquisition, which is have some romances have the sex scene be optional or leaving the level of physical intimacy ambiguous. That way people who want to experience the romances but don't like nudity can since there would be ones without mandatory sex scenes.

 

Language: Bioware could probably address this in two ways. First, have companions who don't swear or use profanity as well as ones that do, and secondly have a dialogue path of the protagonist that doesn't and another that does. With this, a player that doesn't like it can at least have their squad not talk like that. 

 

All these things are things Bioware has already done in the past, so it is doubtful they are as resource-expensive a toggle for all this would be and yet would net similar results. 

 

This is a naive view of the situation. You're still talking about weeks, if not months of development that's necessary to get those features ready for shipping. The non-lethal ammo alone would require extensive changes to the gameplay and the story.

 

The gore toggles in DA never removed -all- of the blood and none of the violence.

 

Your idea for the nudity and language issues is BioWare censoring itself? Where's the toggle in this? How would a player even know which dialogue path would lead to non-offensive language?

[Lady Artifice]

Well, to bring up suggestions I wrote earlier in this thread but nobody replied to:

 

Violence: For players who are averse to killing, Bioware could bring in the use of non-lethal rounds, like with the Anti-Thorian Gas grenade upgrade. It could lead to interesting roleplaying opportunities, like for example people having different opinions of you depending on if you kill or incapacitate.

 

Gore: Gore toggles have existed for years and Bioware has even used them in their Dragon Age games, including Dragon Age: Inquisition which is on the same engine that Mass Effect: Andromeda would be. So all the pieces for it already exist, and just need some tweaking. 

 

Nudity: The best way Bioware could appease both sides on this front is to do what they did in Dragon Age: Inquisition, which is have some romances have the sex scene be optional or leaving the level of physical intimacy ambiguous. That way people who want to experience the romances but don't like nudity can since there would be ones without mandatory sex scenes.

 

Language: Bioware could probably address this in two ways. First, have companions who don't swear or use profanity as well as ones that do, and secondly have a dialogue path of the protagonist that doesn't and another that does. With this, a player that doesn't like it can at least have their squad not talk like that. 

 

All these things are things Bioware has already done in the past, so it is doubtful they are as resource-expensive a toggle for all this would be and yet would net similar results. 

 

 

This part, the language. The assurance of a dialogue path in which profane language (setting aside the difficulty of how subjective "profane" can be, and where to draw the cultural and antiquity related line here) is consistently avoidable, would very probably eliminate the inclusion of any characters like Jack who are extremely prone to profanity to express their points, no?  

[Lady Luminous]

This part, the language. The assurance of a dialogue path in which profane language (setting aside the difficulty of how subjective "profane" can be, and where to draw the cultural and antiquity related line here) is consistently avoidable, would very probably eliminate the inclusion of any characters like Jack who are extremely prone to profanity to express their points, no?

Not to mention that players will complain when they want to interact with x companion, but x companion swears. And it's not fair that they have to interact with a/b/c companions instead - why can't companion a be the one that swears instead?

[Battlebloodmage]

This is a naive view of the situation. You're still talking about weeks, if not months of development that's necessary to get those features ready for shipping. The non-lethal ammo alone would require extensive changes to the gameplay and the story.

 

The gore toggles in DA never removed -all- of the blood and none of the violence.

 

Your idea for the nudity and language issues is BioWare censoring itself? Where's the toggle in this? How would a player even know which dialogue path would lead to non-offensive language?

I agree. Those suggestions are awfully expensive and time consuming, and it would compromise the time and resource that could be used to work on other features.

The only thing they could do out of the stuffs mentioned is to have a fade to black scene that skip over the nudity but still maintain the relationship on the dialogue wheel, but it's a feature that they intend to include anyway. 

[AlleyD]

I would not say was extremely prone to profanity

 

I researched Jack's dialogue tree in the recruitment and loyalty missions of ME2 and counted a total of 7 uses of "profane" language (Using the definition as per the Clean Airways Act 2003). There were another two mildly taboo words that are not, as yet, considered profane (Damn and ***** slang term for cat). Jack's favorite curse in ME2 was "What the hell?" I noticed around 4 instances of this form of self censoring dialogue. Also, Jack didn't drop an F-Bomb until the end sequence of her loyalty mission; a mission which was scripted to show a scene of extreme child abuse and sadistic and unethical science.

[Elhanan]

I would not say was extremely prone to profanity
 
I researched Jack's dialogue tree in the recruitment and loyalty missions of ME2 and counted a total of 7 uses of "profane" language (Using the definition as per the Clean Airways Act 2003). There were another two mildly taboo words that are not, as yet, considered profane (Damn and ***** slang term for cat). Jack's favorite curse in ME2 was "What the hell?" I noticed around 4 instances of this form of self censoring dialogue. Also, Jack didn't drop an F-Bomb until the end sequence of her loyalty mission; a mission which was scripted to show a scene of extreme child abuse and sadistic and unethical science.

Only played ME2 a single time, but seem to recall disliking Jack's language well before the end of her mission; perhaps during the private chats one has on the Normandy. I know this was a major reason I only played it once, and did not pre-order ME3.

[Lady Luminous]

Only played ME2 a single time, but seem to recall disliking Jack's language well before the end of her mission; perhaps during the private chats one has on the Normandy. I know this was a major reason I only played it once, and did not pre-order ME3.

I'm sorry, but you let a single character stop you from enjoying the rest of the game, and from not playing the third?

There's barely any profanity other than a few curse words throughout the game, and pretty much all of the other characters are very tame.

I'm just amazed, and slightly appalled, at how hampered your playing of the game was. I am seriously stunned.