3411 réponses à ce sujet

[Fandango]

I'm not referring to a toggle. As I've said several times, I've been pondering and wanting to discuss more efficient ways to give people with different tastes when it comes to things like discussed in the OP options than a resource-costly toggle.

There exists no way for BioWare to make ME:A all things to all people. Moreover, trying to broaden the appeal of an already established IP so often yields terrible results (who else here remembers the mess EA made of Dead Space in trying to reinvent survival horror as something more appealing those who don't like or play survival horror)?

No, much better we ask those people who simply cannot tolerate a little M rated content in their video games to leave those games be.

[Lady Artifice]

I'm not referring to a toggle. As I've said several times, I've been pondering and wanting to discuss more efficient ways to give people with different tastes when it comes to things like discussed in the OP options than a resource-costly toggle. 

 

So, to make sure I'm clear, all you're currently asking for is that they maintain the profanity standards--and the nudity to no nudity ratio--of DAI, implement the gore toggle of DA into MEA, and add the option to use non lethal ammunition?

 

I'm not personally opposed to any of this at all, but I expect the Devs would find that the last poses a morality related question that a significant portion of the fanbase would resent. 

[Battlebloodmage]

I'm not referring to a toggle. As I've said several times, I've been pondering and wanting to discuss more efficient ways to give people with different tastes when it comes to things like discussed in the OP options than a resource-costly toggle. 

If you could find a way to make it unaffecting the product in anyway, without making it cost more, I don't mind. Those who want it need to give suggestion, not us since the burden of proof is on you guys. Your previous suggestions have shown to be at least costly enough that it would affect the main game. As I stated, nudity is something the developers are already kept in mind since there should be a way to maintain the relationship without the sex scenes. The main issue is swearing, and I would be opposed to toning it down because a few people can't stand it in an M rated game. Violence and exploding bodies are hard to censor, and it would be costly. There would be no way to downplay it. It's the same with removing violence in the game. It would be costly regardless with the extra coding and bug testing.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So, to make sure I'm clear, all you're currently asking for is that they maintain the profanity standards--and the nudity to no nudity ratio--of DAI, implement the gore toggle of DA into MEA, and add the option to use non lethal ammunition?

 

I'm not personally opposed to any of this at all, but I expect the Devs would find that the last poses a morality related question that a significant portion of the fanbase would resent. 

Basically, I'm asking for:

 

Language: Maintain it at the level they had it in ME1 or even ME3.

Nudity: Have it so either the person can skip the cutscene without missing anything, and/or have romances where either sex is optional or it is left ambiguous.

Gore: Yes, have the gore toggle from DA implemented into ME. Or even go more like how shooters are if not too straining on resources. 

Violence: Have an option for the player to fight in combat without having to kill enemy combatants, most likely through non-lethal ammo and biotic/tech powers. 

 

Why would a significant portion of the fanbase resent the option of non-lethal combat?

[Xetykins]

So you got to please yourself. And it'a all right now....

Well yeah, I'm personally pleased that I bought the game that's what was exactly written on the cover. MATURE. If I'd like to play T rated, I'd buy T rated. It's not as if I don't have a choice. You do too.

[Battlebloodmage]

Basically, I'm asking for:

 

Language: Maintain it at the level they had it in ME1 or even ME3.

Nudity: Have it so either the person can skip the cutscene without missing anything, and have romances where either sex is optional or it is left ambiguous.

Gore: Yes, have the gore toggle from DA implemented into ME. Or even go more like how shooters are if not too straining on resources. 

Violence: Have an option for the player to fight in combat without having to kill enemy combatants, most likely through non-lethal ammo and biotic/tech powers. 

 

Why would a significant portion of the fanbase resent the option of non-lethal combat?

Opposed to language suggestion since it would go against their vision if that's what would go against their vision just to satisfy a few fans who can't deal with an M rated game contents.

Nudity: already covered.

Gore: Same as language. The few fans who can't deal with it shouldn't dictate how it is for everyone else when you're willingly buy a mature game.

I'm resenting the non-lethal combat because it's stupid to spare the bad guys. If batman actually killed the Joker, many innocent people wouldn't have suffered like hundreds of people he killed, Batgirl wouldn't have been crippled and raped, Red Hood wouldn't have almost died and returned as a criminal. You go to a war to prevent the bad guys from killing more people. Plus, adding these features would mean using resources for making different ammo and tech power on top of having to animate the enemies to behave as fainted or incapacitated instead of killed.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Those who want it need to give suggestion, not us since the burden of proof is on you guys.

And then the other side gives a counter-suggestion as both sides slowly work until they find a mutual compromise. That's how discussions and negotiations work.

Instead, one side is giving suggestions while the other side is either being rude and/or shutting them down without any counter-suggestion. That's what has led to the discussion becoming circular. 

 

Opposed to language suggestion since it would go against their vision if that's what would go against their vision just to satisfy a few fans who can't deal with an M rated game contents.

Nudity: already covered.

Gore: Same as language. The few fans who can't deal with it shouldn't dictate how it is for everyone else when you're willingly buy a mature game.

I'm resenting the non-lethal combat because it's stupid. You go to a war to prevent the bad guys from killing more people. Plus, adding these features would mean using resources for making different ammo and tech power on top of having to animate the enemies to behave as fainted or incapacitated instead of killed.

Then have some characters who don't swear/use profanity and leave the option for the protagonist to abstain. 

Agreed. 

Even some of the goriest of games come with gore toggles, so there is no reason it can't be implemented. It's not dictating for everyone else when it is an option. 

We have no idea what the plot of the game is, so there is nothing to say our character having that desire is stupid. People who suddenly lose consciousness fall down exactly the same as people who suddenly lose their life do. Plus if they can add animations for people burning, freezing, or exploding, they can add one of them becoming incapacitated.  

[Fandango]

Basically, I'm asking for:
 
Language: Maintain it at the level they had it in ME1 or even ME3.
Nudity: Have it so either the person can skip the cutscene without missing anything, and/or have romances where either sex is optional or it is left ambiguous.
Gore: Yes, have the gore toggle from DA implemented into ME. Or even go more like how shooters are if not too straining on resources. 
Violence: Have an option for the player to fight in combat without having to kill enemy combatants, most likely through non-lethal ammo and biotic/tech powers. 
 

Thing is, I could easily rattle off a dozen different variables that might reasonably make their way into an M rated game. I mean, how would this solution of yours manage things like drug use, prostitution, sexual violence and gambling?

[Battlebloodmage]

And then the other side gives a counter-suggestion as both sides slowly work until they find a mutual compromise. That's how discussions and negotiations work.

Instead, one side is giving suggestions while the other side is either being rude and/or shutting them down without any counter-suggestion. 

 

Then have some characters who don't swear/use profanity and leave the option for the protagonist to abstain. 

Agreed. 

Even some of the goriest of games come with gore toggles, so there is no reason it can't be implemented. It's not dictating for everyone else when it is an option. 

We have no idea what the plot of the game is, so there is nothing to say our character having that desire is stupid. People who suddenly lose consciousness fall down exactly the same as people who suddenly lose their life do. Plus if they can add animations for people burning, freezing, or exploding, they can add one of them becoming incapacitated.  

No, adding extra animations for a few people who want to play M rated game but don't want to play M rated game is a wasted resource when they could working on something else. Those extra animations would need to work for many enemies. We're not fighting one or two enemies only in the game.

If they have some characters who don't swear or use profanity, it needs to be because it's who the characters are, not because a few people who can't handle some colorful language. They always have that anyway, so I don't the point of even mentioning this.

[Mcfly616]

Basically, I'm asking for:

 

Language: Maintain it at the level they had it in ME1 or even ME3.

Nudity: Have it so either the person can skip the cutscene without missing anything, and/or have romances where either sex is optional or it is left ambiguous.

Gore: Yes, have the gore toggle from DA implemented into ME. Or even go more like how shooters are if not too straining on resources. 

Violence: Have an option for the player to fight in combat without having to kill enemy combatants, most likely through non-lethal ammo and biotic/tech powers. 

 

Why would a significant portion of the fanbase resent the option of non-lethal combat?

 When you skip something, you are purposely missing it. That's the point. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Thing is, I could easily rattle off a dozen different variables that might reasonably make their way into an M rated game. I mean, how would this solution of yours manage things like drug use, prostitution, sexual violence and gambling?

I was discussing those four since three were brought up by the OP and the fourth brought up often enough to address. 

 

For your four, three can be handled easily by merely making it optional content. Gambling even was such in Mass Effect 1. As for sexual violence are you talking about in the game period or can the protagonist do that? I doubt Bioware will do the latter, and the former would almost certainly have it shown to always be a negative and probably be a case of tell, not show like they do with similar things. 

 

No, adding extra animations for a few people who want to play M rated game but don't want to play M rated game is a wasted resource when they could working on something else. Those extra animations would need to work for many enemies. We're not fighting one or two enemies only in the game.

Yes, because no Rated M game has ever had it so you can play a character who fights non-lethally.

Well, ignoring the most famous franchise that does exactly that and is hailed for it: the Deus Ex franchise. 

 

Again, how do you know that? In fact, in every Mass Effect game we fight at most half a dozen different enemy factions, almost all of whom use the exact same animation skeleton. 

 

 When you skip something, you are purposely missing it. That's the point. 

I mean like conversations. For example you didn't miss anything in the Shepard Trilogy by skipping the sex scenes other than the sex.

[Battlebloodmage]

 

I was discussing those four since three were brought up by the OP and the fourth brought up often enough to address. 

 

For your four, three can be handled easily by merely making it optional content. Gambling even was such in Mass Effect 1. As for sexual violence are you talking about in the game period or can the protagonist do that? I doubt Bioware will do the latter, and the former would almost certainly have it shown to always be a negative. 

 

Yes, because no Rated M game has ever had it so you can play a character who fights non-lethally.

Well, ignoring the most famous franchise that does exactly that and is hailed for it: the Deus Ex franchise. 

 

Again, how do you know that? In fact, in every Mass Effect game we fight at most half a dozen different enemy factions, almost all of whom use the exact same animation skeleton. 

 

I mean like conversations. For example you didn't miss anything in the Shepard Trilogy by skipping the sex scenes other than the sex.

 

Just because a game can do it doesn't mean another game can should do it. It's a different company, different budget, different engine. Also, they are not hailed for having that option. 

Some of the aliens have different structures, enemies may vary in size as well. Regardless, as I said before, resource is resource which I don't them to be used in that way just because a very few people who can't handle to play an M-rated.

[Fandango]

I was discussing those four since three were brought up by the OP and the fourth brought up often enough to address.

For your four, three can be handled easily by merely making it optional content. Gambling even was such in Mass Effect 1. As for sexual violence are you talking about in the game period or can the protagonist do that? I doubt Bioware will do the latter, and the former would almost certainly have it shown to always be a negative.
 

Right, so the laundry list of things you're asking BioWare to develop around for the benefit of those who don't want to experience any M rated content in an M rated game grows? Besides, the idea of having a party member struggling with a drug or gambling addiction (a la Cullen) sounds way more interesting to me than anything the other side have suggested thus far.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Just because a game can do it doesn't mean another game can should do it. It's a different company, different budget, different engine. Also, they are not hailed for having that option. 

Some of the aliens have different structures, enemies may vary in size as well. Regardless, as I said before, resource is resource which I don't them to be used in that way just because a very few people who can't handle to play an M-rated.

Do you have a counter-suggestion then? All you've done is shot things down without offering a counter-suggestion. If you want to have a productive dialogue, it is your turn.

 

Right, so the laundry list of things you're asking BioWare to develop around for the benefit of those who don't want to experience any M rated content in an M rated game grows? Besides, the idea of having a party member struggling with a drug or gambling addiction ( a la Cullen) sounds way more interesting to me than anything you've suggested thus far.

Oh, I thought you meant the protagonist partaking in such things, not having them as story elements. My apologies for misunderstanding you.

In that case, I don't see why they would have to be removed since if the player doesn't like those things they can get the party member to stop like you could with Cullen. Likewise if they support those things, they can do that as well like you could with Cullen.

[Battlebloodmage]

Do you have a counter-suggestion then. All you've done is shot things down without offering a counter-offer. If you want to have a productive dialogue, it is your turn. 

 

Oh, I thought you meant the protagonist partaking in such things, not having them as story elements. My apologies for misunderstanding you. In that case, I don't see why they would have to be removed since if the player doesn't like those things they can get the party member to stop like you could with Cullen. 

If there's a counter suggestion, it's to create polls and bring attention to it. I'm opposed to it because it's not a good investment to satisfy very few people. If you could prove that there's a good portion of the fanbase would be for it, even if I'm against it, it doesn't matter what I want, Bioware could potentially include it. This is something that Elhanan refused to do as several people have suggested it. Those who make these suggestions don't want to put in the leg works since Bioware person stated that they themselves can't do it since requires resources. If you could show Bioware that it's worth the investment and help them with the poll, then they may give it some thoughts. 

 

[Chealec]

Am 58, still try and respect my parents, and do not care for the profanity in the ME series, esp ME2. Was not aware that 17+ that one was to lose respect for parental input....

Support the Toggle.

 

Your case is different - you're an adult yourself, who doesn't like profanity, and that's your prerogative. Your parents have no issue with you making that choice. This isn't even about a toggle really as that will not affect the ESRB or PEGI ratings, if you're not ostensibly an adult (based on the PEGI/ESRB ratings) then you shouldn't be playing the Mass Effect games...

 

... and if you are an adult, and your parents can't accept that you're able to decide for yourself whether you think that a bit of swearing and nudity in entertainment is something you take issue with - then there may be some serious family issues there, they need to learn to let go. If they don't like it, fine, don't play it in front of them - you can respect them by not rubbing their noses in it. If they respect you, they should allow you to make that decision for yourself. It goes both ways.

 

I'm 38 and my parents are awesome... they gave me the leeway to live my own life and make my own mistakes and for that I respect them far more for that than I would have done had they attempted to do otherwise.

[Chealec]

...

Gore: Yes, have the gore toggle from DA implemented into ME. Or even go more like how shooters are if not too straining on resources. 

...

 

If by gore you mean a combat-ketchup toggle to reduce gibbage/splatter then don't worry, that will be in ME:A ... well, unless they decide not to release the game at all in certain countries.

 

If, however, you mean sanitising entire portions of the game, like the piles of bodies on the Collector ship in ME2, then there may be an issue.

[wright1978]

Basically, I'm asking for:

 

Language: Maintain it at the level they had it in ME1 or even ME3.

Nudity: Have it so either the person can skip the cutscene without missing anything, and/or have romances where either sex is optional or it is left ambiguous.

Gore: Yes, have the gore toggle from DA implemented into ME. Or even go more like how shooters are if not too straining on resources. 

Violence: Have an option for the player to fight in combat without having to kill enemy combatants, most likely through non-lethal ammo and biotic/tech powers. 

 

Why would a significant portion of the fanbase resent the option of non-lethal combat?

 

Language: So that means potentially censoring dialogue for characters who should swear for everyone for the sake of minority.

Nudity: Don't mind notion of sex being optional. I do have an issue with ambiguity, that's akin to punishing the majority by cutting out sex/nudity.

Gore: If they can translate the one from DA cheaply that seems possible.

Violence: I think its a silly notion to tag on non-lethal ammo across the board. Building in sequences where use of non lethal ammo(such as feros) actually have meaning i wouldn't have an issue with.

[rashie]

There exists no way for BioWare to make ME:A all things to all people. Moreover, trying to broaden the appeal of an already established IP so often yields terrible results (who else here remembers the mess EA made of Dead Space in trying to reinvent survival horror as something more appealing those who don't like or play survival horror)?

No, much better we ask those people who simply cannot tolerate a little M rated content in their video games to leave those games be.

Dead Space never was much of a survival horror game in the first place, but something definitely happened to its style and execution going from DS1/2 to 3.

[Elhanan]

Well yeah, I'm personally pleased that I bought the game that's what was exactly written on the cover. MATURE. If I'd like to play T rated, I'd buy T rated. It's not as if I don't have a choice. You do too.

I would contend that as some ESRB content is often the first stuff modded for games w/o it, that maturity has little to do with it. As far as language, it is often closer to that which was heard in Jr HS than in the military.

[Elhanan]

Thing is, I could easily rattle off a dozen different variables that might reasonably make their way into an M rated game. I mean, how would this solution of yours manage things like drug use, prostitution, sexual violence and gambling?

If the matter of sexual violence is not illustrated, it can offer a mature discussion (eg; Broodmother). And that of the of the others is generally handled on a personal level by not doing them in game.

[Il Divo]

And then the other side gives a counter-suggestion as both sides slowly work until they find a mutual compromise. That's how discussions and negotiations work.

Instead, one side is giving suggestions while the other side is either being rude and/or shutting them down without any counter-suggestion. That's what has led to the discussion becoming circular. 

 

 

Except this isn't a negotiation. Negotiation is what happens when each side has something the other wants and they attempt to find some common ground to get it. Quid pro quo, basically. We don't need to do that, because again all evidence at present points to the anti-language crowd as being extremely niche and the only ones to get something out of this. Hence why I keep pointing out that it would either need to cost no resources (impossible) or involve enough fan support for Bioware to want to test the waters.  

​

[Elhanan]

Your case is different - you're an adult yourself, who doesn't like profanity, and that's your prerogative. Your parents have no issue with you making that choice. This isn't even about a toggle really as that will not affect the ESRB or PEGI ratings, if you're not ostensibly an adult (based on the PEGI/ESRB ratings) then you shouldn't be playing the Mass Effect games...
 
... and if you are an adult, and your parents can't accept that you're able to decide for yourself whether you think that a bit of swearing and nudity in entertainment is something you take issue with - then there may be some serious family issues there, they need to learn to let go. If they don't like it, fine, don't play it in front of them - you can respect them by not rubbing their noses in it. If they respect you, they should allow you to make that decision for yourself. It goes both ways.
 
I'm 38 and my parents are awesome... they gave me the leeway to live my own life and make my own mistakes and for that I respect them far more for that than I would have done had they attempted to do otherwise.

But much like the children example used in the article, when parents, family, and friends come to visit, the game is not played in front of them for those same reasons. There are other adults that do not care for profanity, nudity, and sex being placed into games after all. Filters would help.

[KaiserShep]

The gore toggle is not even about the actual violence of the combat, since the enemies will still explode in a bloody mess no matter what you choose. 

[KaiserShep]

But much like the children example used in the article, when parents, family, and friends come to visit, the game is not played in front of them for those same reasons. There are other adults that do not care for profanity, nudity, and sex being placed into games after all. Filters would help.

 

But then the question I have to ask is: how do they feel about watching someone gun down virtual characters in droves? If they're fine with that, but not fine with a little language, I have to question the priorities at work here.