3411 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthSliver]

Possibly because not all folks are alike, and do not conform to what another mindset believe should be. Personally am fine with the Gore filters engaged, but the offensive language breaks immersion when used by aliens, Junior Officers, or flung about commonly like in other games.

I agree that ME3 seemed better than ME2; was more compartmentalized and easier to navigate. That said, I still was perturbed by the usage heard by Vega, Aria, and Zaeed, and tried to work around them.

 

You sir need to let this go, you have been repeating yourself for the last 30 plus pages. Someone should report you for spamming at this point

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

If by gore you mean a combat-ketchup toggle to reduce gibbage/splatter then don't worry, that will be in ME:A ... well, unless they decide not to release the game at all in certain countries.

 

If, however, you mean sanitising entire portions of the game, like the piles of bodies on the Collector ship in ME2, then there may be an issue.

I am referring to the former, yes. Never really saw bodies lying around as gore.

 

Language: So that means potentially censoring dialogue for characters who should swear for everyone for the sake of minority.

Nudity: Don't mind notion of sex being optional. I do have an issue with ambiguity, that's akin to punishing the majority by cutting out sex/nudity.

Gore: If they can translate the one from DA cheaply that seems possible.

Violence: I think its a silly notion to tag on non-lethal ammo across the board. Building in sequences where use of non lethal ammo(such as feros) actually have meaning i wouldn't have an issue with.

No. As I said earlier, they could also have it like DAI where there were some characters that swear/use profanity and others that don't, thus leaving options for each player since they can choose who they have in their party. I only mentioned ME1 because if I could that'd be the level I would personally like. 

It's not punishing. With them not devoting resources to the sex scene and the lead up and aftermath of it, that romance would be able to explore other aspects of the relationship, which could appeal to people. I've seen plenty of people here want deeper romances, and that's one way it could happen.

Agreed. 

I'd be fine even if it was available only in certain scenarios if it is too resource-costly to do it across the board. 

 

What is it that you think you're negotiating? This is capitalism and you're the consumer. Buy the product or play a game for children. I don't like Salt and vinegar potato chips but I can buy other chips. I'm not going to write angry emails about my taste buds being offended.

And yes, you can choose not to buy the game instead of forcing a ridiculous and unreasonably expensive toggle just to appease you. Bioware has already said they can't do it. How do you not get that?

I am thinking people would prefer to have a discussion that has purpose and can be beneficial by all sides chiming in and figuring out a cost-effective way to serve as many as possible. 

They said they can't do the toggle. I'm not asking for a toggle. I have stated this many times now. 

[wright1978]

 

It's not punishing. With them not devoting resources to the sex scene and the lead up and aftermath of it, that romance would be able to explore other aspects of the relationship, which could appeal to people. I've seen plenty of people here want deeper romances, and that's one way it could happen.

 

Of course its punishing the majority who would be denied any intimacy in those romances for the sake of a minority.

[FKA_Servo]

 

No. As I said earlier, they could also have it like DAI where there were some characters that swear/use profanity and others that don't, thus leaving options for each player since they can choose who they have in their party. I only mentioned ME1 because if I could that'd be the level I would personally like. 

 

Or who to have on your ship, flat out. You can refrain from recruiting Garrus and Wrex I think (something that's more or less walked back any way in subsequent games), but the only other way to cull your party is murder pistoling some or nuking others. Then in ME2, you're stuck with this giant, bloated cast of people who maybe you (or your character) don't want anything to do with.

 

We should be able to skip them. Most games like this (but especially ME2, god) would benefit from the ability to choose who you recruit as well as the ability to kick at will. I love Zaeed to an embarrassing degree, absolutely due to his salty demeanor. But if someone wants to tell him to go kick rocks right off the bat, I support them. That I can so often do this in DA is highly appreciated.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I actually do think this is a reasonable list of expectations and requests.

 

Language - obviously won't bother me, but also I foresee zero chance of a Mass Effect game, or any Bioware game, being clownishly gratuitous with it. Still think it's crucial to the characterization of some, but I also support the ability to refrain from recruiting, as well as flat out kick, companions if I so choose.

 

Nudity - Again, doesn't bother me broadly, and certainly not to the limited extent it would actually appear. That said, universally unskippable cutscenes are annoying, and a somewhat branching romance path is better for roleplaying and replayability. Plus, it's likely much more "doable" than any sort of toggle/censor bar/rescripting/etc.

 

Gore - Whatever, sure. Extreme stuff can wig me out, but I once again don't think a Mass Effect game will cross any major lines, honestly. Besides, consensus and evidence suggest that this is the easiest thing to "toggle" anyway.

 

The only thing I think would not work would be to provide non-lethal gameplay options across the board. There are some games that do do that obviously (I've never played Deus Ex, but doing it in Dishonored was very rewarding), but it wouldn't have been possible in the current trilogy without a massive re-imagining of the story (something it could benefit from but anyway...), and I don't think it would necessarily be believable going forward. Situationally, as in ME1... sure, but I think it would stretch both internal and external credibility if we're able to tranq or talk our way out of every hostile Andromedan encounter.

 

Some things just need shooting, too.

 

Basically, I don't want them to compromise their direction or their vision in any way, and I don't want them to burn zots chasing some insipid toggle, BUT I think it's perfectly acceptable to offer players a way to game around the majority of it if they so choose. The Dragon Age games have all done this to varying extent. It results in a more varied game, and I think that's something we all want.

 

Additionally, though, if the rare bit of meaty exposition necessitates some language or other objectionable content, I would hope everyone is gracious enough to just deal with it.

Thank you. I'm glad you think so. 

 

With language there's been a few times where it's been gratuitous, like Joker's constant swearing when we play as him in ME2, but for the most part I agree it has been either tame or reserved for certain characters thus easily avoidable by simply not using or talking to them. 

 

With nudity, I agree completely. It can certainly be useful, but there are ways around fully showing it outside the cutscene like with clever camera placement when there is dialogue to be had. And with there being a variety of romance paths even with the same LI, like you said it adds to the roleplaying and replayability value. 

 

With gore, Bioware has crossed the line a few times, but every time they have they have included a gore toggle so people who aren't for it can have the gore be more to their tastes. 

 

With violence, Dishonored is another great example. Like you said with how little we know of what will be happening in these games it's hard to say what their vision for it is. It could be that it fits their vision perfectly fine, or it fits in certain situations, or not at all. Like with the nudity, having the option either throughout the game or just in certain situations can be beneficial to the game by adding to the roleplaying and replayability of it. 

 

So yeah, the fact Bioware has already done everything I listed in the past supports the notion that there are ways they could appeal to as many people as possible without it being too costly resource-wise and can even possibly benefit the game itself as a whole, rather than just having a toggle which is more costly and doesn't bring any benefits to the game itself. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Of course its punishing the majority who would be denied any intimacy in those romances for the sake of a minority.

Sex =/= Intimacy. There are Bioware romances that have had intimacy without there being sex, and there has been sex that has no intimacy to it at all. 

 

Or who to have on your ship, flat out. You can refrain from recruiting Garrus and Wrex I think (something that's more or less walked back any way in subsequent games), but the only other way to cull your party is murder pistoling some or nuking others. Then in ME2, you're stuck with this giant, bloated cast of people who maybe you (or your character) don't want anything to do with.

 

We should be able to skip them. Most games like this (but especially ME2, god) would benefit from the ability to choose who you recruit as well as the ability to kick at will. I love Zaeed to an embarrassing degree, absolutely due to his salty demeanor. But if someone wants to tell him to go kick rocks right off the bat, I support them. That I can so often do this in DA is highly appreciated.

Well, you have to recruit either Garrus or Wrex since you need one to know about Fist working with Saren, but yeah the other one is completely optional at that point. But yeah, I'm all in support for having the player be able to choose who to have and the ability to get rid of party mebers.

[FKA_Servo]

With language there's been a few times where it's been gratuitous, like Joker's constant swearing when we play as him in ME2, but for the most part I agree it has been either tame or reserved for certain characters thus easily avoidable by simply not using or talking to them.

 

Joker's reaction to that whole situation would undoubtedly be my own as well. But - that's sort of precisely the situation I'm talking about where I would hope players could just put up with it. It's mandatory, yes, but the whole sequence only lasts a few minutes, and while I'll buy that they could have written it with no profanity, it's absolutely in character.

 

Though, you know what? If missing out on Joker's little string of profanity meant that we could avoid having literally everyone important on the Normandy taking that very convenient (read: contrived) little field trip, I'll take it.

[wright1978]

Sex =/= Intimacy. There are Bioware romances that have had intimacy without there being sex, and there has been sex that has no intimacy to it at all. 

 

Well, you have to recruit either Garrus or Wrex since you need one to know about Fist working with Saren, but yeah the other one is completely optional at that point. But yeah, I'm all in support for having the player be able to choose who to have and the ability to get rid of party mebers.

 

Well i'll disagree that they've done it well anywhere. The wider point however is i don't think you should be designing romances round small minorities. If that's the case every tiny faction should be able to demand their own personally crafted romances to suit their particular fetish.

 

Don't think the player should have ability to get rid of all party members. Don't think characterisation of mandatory squad members should be limited by a small minority.

[Il Divo]

 

 

 

I am thinking people would prefer to have a discussion that has purpose and can be beneficial by all sides chiming in and figuring out a cost-effective way to serve as many as possible. 

They said they can't do the toggle. I'm not asking for a toggle. I have stated this many times now. 

 

 

I'm not sure how your solution would be considered a compromise though. You're basically advocating for the Status Quo, what Bioware games​ have been doing (ME1, ME3, DA:I, ME2 aside). The OP's asking for a change to that status quo, via a language filter. In other words: he's not happy with the current set up.

[Il Divo]

The consumer does not need to explain their motives for making requests; mine are different than others, but I still support the idea. If enough folks become vocal and inquire about said features no matter their reasons, then one day we might get them.

 

That's not what I was getting at. Obviously you don't need the same motive to request the same features.

​

My point was that this approach has the potential to create false positives in terms of people advocating for the feature, thinking that Mass Effect would be kid-friendly without foul language. I suspect if you were to actually put the question to people, whether they'd prefer their kids to be exposed to foul language or have the ability to commit genocide in their games, the scales might tip in a different direction.  

 

Even something like Gears of War, with its language toggle, doesn't cross those sorts of boundaries in allowing the player as an active participant.

[wolfhowwl]

Or who to have on your ship, flat out. You can refrain from recruiting Garrus and Wrex I think (something that's more or less walked back any way in subsequent games), but the only other way to cull your party is murder pistoling some or nuking others. Then in ME2, you're stuck with this giant, bloated cast of people who maybe you (or your character) don't want anything to do with.
 
We should be able to skip them. Most games like this (but especially ME2, god) would benefit from the ability to choose who you recruit as well as the ability to kick at will. I love Zaeed to an embarrassing degree, absolutely due to his salty demeanor. But if someone wants to tell him to go kick rocks right off the bat, I support them. That I can so often do this in DA is highly appreciated.

Wouldn't this make it difficult to integrate the party characters with the plot?

[Elhanan]

That's not what I was getting at. Obviously you don't need the same motive to request the same features.
​
My point was that this approach has the potential to create false positives in terms of people advocating for the feature, thinking that Mass Effect would be kid-friendly without foul language. I suspect if you were to actually put the question to people, whether they'd prefer their kids to be exposed to foul language or have the ability to commit genocide in their games, the scales might tip in a different direction.  
 
Even something like Gears of War, with its language toggle, doesn't cross those sorts of boundaries in allowing the player as an active participant.

Right now I seek folks that will back the feature for whatever reason they wish. Personally would not allow children to watch or play M rated games, but also am keenly aware of the energetic nature of kids and the lack of energy in many parents in trying to keep them contained.

And personally, am not a fan of stats; they can be made to dance many ways. A poll on this forum would likely have different results elsewhere. It would take several polls on several like sites to produce results, and even then it would not yield objective results.

And personally, would generally prefer games to remain in Teen rated materials. But this thread is about the option to allow me to play M rated games with a filter; an idea that I rather like.

[FKA_Servo]

Wouldn't this make it difficult to integrate the party characters with the plot?

 

It might. It doesn't have to be everyone, you can have a core group of unkickables. I don't know if there's a good solution to it necessarily. But I appreciate being able to do this to some extent in DA games. It lets me tailor my company to the character I've devised, and is satisfying for RP.

 

Besides, if someone says that every character in ME2 is the least bit plot relevant, I'm going to call them a liar.

[Il Divo]

Right now I seek folks that will back the feature for whatever reason they wish. Personally would not allow children to watch or play M rated games, but also am keenly aware of the energetic nature of kids and the lack of energy in many parents in trying to keep them contained.

And personally, am not a fan of stats; they can be made to dance many ways. A poll on this forum would likely have different results elsewhere. It would take several polls on several like sites to produce results, and even then it would not yield objective results.

And personally, would generally prefer games to remain in Teen rated materials. But this thread is about the option to allow me to play M rated games with a filter; an idea that I rather like.

 

And this is still mostly irrelevant to my point. My suggestion was that parents, under current rating systems, don't actually have accurate information regarding what their kids are exposed to. I would add though that if you're still looking to garner support for this, polls are going to be the go to option. Posting "I hope they include it" ad infinitum is unlikely to generate much support.
 

[Elhanan]

And this is still mostly irrelevant to my point. My suggestion was that parents, under current rating systems, don't actually have accurate information regarding what their kids are exposed to. I would add though that if you're still looking to garner support for this, polls are going to be the go to option. Posting "I hope they include it" ad infinitum is unlikely to generate much support.

As many have stated, the ratings will not change, so the games with M rated content will still so sold as such. But the filter may persuade some parents that have their rig in a high traffic area to utilize the feature.

I do not seek motives why folks want the feature, and do not plan on using deception; simply with to help promote the option.

[prosthetic soul]

“Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it.”  -Mark Twain

[Elhanan]

“Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it.”  -Mark Twain

"The right word may be effective, but no word was ever as effective as a rightly timed pause." - Mark Twain

[prosthetic soul]

"The right word may be effective, but no word was ever as effective as a rightly timed pause." - Mark Twain

Uh...ok?

[Elhanan]

Uh...ok?

A pause sounds like a Toggle option for language to me....

[prosthetic soul]

A pause sounds like a Toggle option for language to me....

I'm pretty sure if Mark Twain were still alive today, he would confirm that quote was not to be used to condone the censorship of one of the most powerful tools at humanities disposal, and one in which he was very skilled in. 

 

Besides, that's a pretty big leap you're making there in connecting logic. 

[rashie]

Wouldn't this make it difficult to integrate the party characters with the plot?

It could. Alternatively they do it like dragon age did were optional companions do not play a central role in the story, the characters that could be perceived as a bit edgier could be made one of those optionals.

 

There are ways to make that work without really excluding the characters with a foul mouth.

[Cyonan]

“Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it.”  -Mark Twain

 

Nobody is telling you that you can't have steak.

[prosthetic soul]

Nobody is telling you that you can't have explicit language and/or violence and/or nudity

That's what censorship is babe. 

[Cyonan]

That's what censorship is babe. 

 

As per the quote, censorship is telling somebody they can't have steak because a baby can't chew it.

 

What is being asked for in this thread isn't removal of steak from the menu, but rather having a menu that isn't only 100% steak.

 

Steak still gets to be on the menu. Nobody is taking your steak away, but some people would like chicken instead.

[prosthetic soul]

As per the quote, censorship is telling somebody they can't have steak because a baby can't chew it.

 

What is being asked for in this thread isn't removal of steak from the menu, but rather having a menu that isn't only 100% steak.

 

Steak still gets to be on the menu. Nobody is taking your steak away, but some people would like chicken instead.

That's still a waste of time and money and resources towards quasi censorship that should not even be attempted.  How would that even work anyway?  it's a feature that's not implementable!  Let's say we go ahead with this pipe dream of yours and add in a "Language Filter."  I go into the Options Menu and select Explicit Language KIDDIE MODE.  So...instead of the protagonist saying....

 

"We're going to kick these Reapers in the ass and send them straight back to HELL!"

 

He somehow, inexplicably says THIS instead?

 

"We're going to kick these Reapers in the [Poorly acted dubbed over synthesized voice]Buttocks[/Poorly acted dubbed over Synthesized voice] and send them straight back to a terrible place of fire and brimstone!

 

Face it.  It would require far too much money, resources and time to implement such a feature.  Even then it would probably be impossible.  Each VA would have to re-record his lines or something.  It would be ridiculous.  Same thing for the violence and gore.