27 réponses à ce sujet

[A-T-R-A]

I'd like to send this person a strongly worded letter.

 

 

[Jeniva]

tactics suck in this game

[Sidney]

No one person did...I'm willing to be the cause was an accumulation that 90+% of the players didn't use the the tactics and so if no one uses it is it worth spending the resources to build it for us few devoted types that do love it?

[Jeniva]

i used to use tactics : (

[devSin]

You mean rebuilding the AI in Lua and not having enough time to get to everything before the game needed to ship?

I'm not sure I'd call that a "decision". Tactics were a casualty of the engine switch. Hopefully the next game will be better.

[PapaCharlie9]

You mean rebuilding the AI in Lua and not having enough time to get to everything before the game needed to ship?

I'm not sure I'd call that a "decision". Tactics were a casualty of the engine switch. Hopefully the next game will be better.

Ha! I was going to post a joke along the lines that they had actually tried to improve on DAO tactics by allowing you to write your own Lua scripts, but too many beta testers found exploits and gave themselves god mode invulnerability and infinite damage weapons.

Either way, Lua must be at the bottom of it!

[Bayonet Hipshot]

We have. Accordingly, we have also sent this note to them.

 

[CorniliuS]

I don’t have money for all yours crappy dlc. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career of gaming. Skills that make me a pro on nightmare difficulty. If you implement tactics now, that’ll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don’t, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will write you a strongly worded letter.

[MagicalMaster]

No one person did...I'm willing to be the cause was an accumulation that 90+% of the players didn't use the the tactics and so if no one uses it is it worth spending the resources to build it for us few devoted types that do love it?

 

Frankly in both DA:O and DA2 I simply disabled every tactic and handled everything manually (Nightmare difficulty).  I doubt I was alone either, like you say.

[JediMindTrix]

No one person did...I'm willing to be the cause was an accumulation that 90+% of the players didn't use the the tactics and so if no one uses it is it worth spending the resources to build it for us few devoted types that do love it?

Is there a source on this statistic?

[Cheviot]

As someone who spent far too long on the tactics screen in Origins, I find I can get just as much control over the AI by using a mixture of the Tactical Camera and the character menu.

[capn233]

As someone who spent far too long on the tactics screen in Origins, I find I can get just as much control over the AI by using a mixture of the Tactical Camera and the character menu.

 

How would you characterize that mixture?  Is it mostly TacCam?

 

The tactics in DAI are pretty pitiful IMO.  It is basically "use whenever off cooldown and you have enough mana/stamina," "use if there isn't a higher priority talent whenever off cooldown and you have enough mana/stamina," or "don't use."

 

With actual simple tactics implemented in "if-then" format, the squadmates would be hugely more intelligent.  For instance:

 

Cassandra

 

Self: Surrounded by 3 or more enemies -> Wrath of Heaven

Target: Stunned  -> Spell Purge

 

Yay, nonstop wombo combos with no intervention on my part.

 

Also the "follow / defend" behaviors are crappier than the "passive," "aggressive," or "ranged" setttings in DAO.  Especially wrt the archer companions who seem to want to do boneheaded things if you don't manually hold them in a specific spot.

[holdenagincourt]

How would you characterize that mixture?  Is it mostly TacCam?

 

The tactics in DAI are pretty pitiful IMO.  It is basically "use whenever off cooldown and you have enough mana/stamina," "use if there isn't a higher priority talent whenever off cooldown and you have enough mana/stamina," or "don't use."

 

With actual simple tactics implemented in "if-then" format, the squadmates would be hugely more intelligent.  For instance:

 

Cassandra

 

Self: Surrounded by 3 or more enemies -> Wrath of Heaven

Target: Stunned  -> Spell Purge

 

Yay, nonstop wombo combos with no intervention on my part.

 

Also the "follow / defend" behaviors are crappier than the "passive," "aggressive," or "ranged" setttings in DAO.  Especially wrt the archer companions who seem to want to do boneheaded things if you don't manually hold them in a specific spot.

 

I want tactics back as well, but that AI logic existed in Origins and was nowhere near foolproof. At least half the time the intended behavior did not occur at all or occurred suboptimally (e.g. the AI recognizing enemies 10 meters away as "surrounding" and then using a PBAOE spell that hit nothing).

 

I think the AI in Inquisition is actually better than most people here give it credit for, but I still want tactics back to customize certain things. Highly important spells with long cooldowns like Wrath of Heaven and Spell Purge though, I would still personally keep disabled and trigger manually.

[Dieb]

As someone who spent far too long on the tactics screen in Origins, I find I can get just as much control over the AI by using a mixture of the Tactical Camera and the character menu.

 

First of all, kudos for your avatar.

 

Secondly, to me the purpose joy of Tactics was actually to create the perfect autonomous combat AI for every character. The strategy mode is good enough for giving orders by hand, but it was the possibility to automatise a routine for every possible situation that I sorely miss.

 

That and the fact that the basic combat routines are just awful. Mages don't run away when getting struck in melee combat, DW rogues only ever flank by mistake, 2H warriors soak up damage and have no script that makes even near sufficient use of the very well existing, actually rather cool parry mechanic. That's the thing which grates me: Every class has an interesting way to evade & avoid damage, but the AI is quite unaware of that.

 

Specifically, the invention of Guard, IMO, was a very  last resort, and a clumsy one at that, to not make those shortcomings game breaking. The fact that the best Unique dagger in the game's most special ability is Guard build up, is the ultimate declaration of defeat.

[CorniliuS]

Solve a puzzle witch one is tactics and witch one is pathetic parody.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

First of all, kudos for your avatar.

 

Secondly, to me the purpose joy of Tactics was actually to create the perfect autonomous combat AI for every character. The strategy mode is good enough for giving orders by hand, but it was the possibility to automatise a routine for every possible situation that I sorely miss.

 

That and the fact that the basic combat routines are just awful. Mages don't run away when getting struck in melee combat, DW rogues only ever flank by mistake, 2H warriors soak up damage and have no script that makes even near sufficient use of the very well existing, actually rather cool parry mechanic. That's the thing which grates me: Every class has an interesting way to evade & avoid damage, but the AI is quite unaware of that.

 

Specifically, the invention of Guard, IMO, was a very  last resort, and a clumsy one at that, to not make those shortcomings game breaking. The fact that the best Unique dagger in the game's most special ability is Guard build up, is the ultimate declaration of defeat.

Did you know DW rogues can use a skill called parry?
Cole sure doesn't.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

I really miss the DAO/DA2 Tactics screen. 

 

That being said, I didn't find that the new (very limited) Tactics AI is that bad offensively, but it's painfully retarded when it comes to defensive decisions.  I think if they can manage to get a more detailed interface again, they'd make a LOT of people happy.

[capn233]

I think it is a big mixed bag, because warriors do defense fairly decently with Block and Slash, Shield Wall and Combat Roll, for example.  SnS is also pretty good at using Shield Bash for combos.  On the other hand, in their specs, Bull can't use Dragon Rage at all, Blackwall doesn't really do TTD or WF correctly, but Cassandra is ok with Spell Purge and WoH ignoring that she doesn't usually combo them effectively.

 

Rogues are just overall poor at nearly everything on autopilot.  Archers into melee range, stealth and evade not used correctly, DW can't flank on their own and don't seem to want to block or evade effectively.  The saving grace for Archery is the auto attacks and LS and ES do decent damage so it appears that they aren't completely stupid.  Granted, in DAO DW didn't really flank by themselves either (unless you used the Advanced Tactics flank option / cheat), but you could just keep buffing their dex and they couldn't get hit anyway.

 

Mages look ok on autopilot (for the most part) when there is only one of them.  Especially since the main use of a single mage is barrier-bot and that just requires them to use it whenever it is off cooldown.  AOE's get put in strange locations sometimes, and will be used against single units.  In DAO you had some control over that, although the only AOE I used with a tactic in that game was really Mana Clash, manual for all the other ones.  Did do paralysis combos on autopilot though, even though each single ability wasn't really AOE.

 

Sadly I doubt we see anything like tactics from DAO again since games are developed predominantly for console, and nobody with a controller likes to go through big, detailed menus apparently.

[A-T-R-A]

I just wish they would've at very least given us the:

 

surrounded by "x" enemies, use <blank> ability

 

or

 

"x" number of enemies clustered, use <blank> ability

 

I've seen people praise the AI in this game, but every time a brute buffs & does his multiple 360 attack my warriors just eat it.  I even gave them combat roll (upgraded) thinking they would roll out of the way...nope

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

I just wish they would've at very least given us the:

 

surrounded by "x" enemies, use <blank> ability

 

or

 

"x" number of enemies clustered, use <blank> ability

 

I've seen people praise the AI in this game, but every time a brute buffs & does his multiple 360 attack my warriors just eat it.  I even gave them combat roll (upgraded) thinking they would roll out of the way...nope

Your warriors eat it? Ha! Cole just dies. Badly.

[thewatcheruatu]

I was so disappointed when I discovered tactics weren't in this game in any meaningful sense. Actually, I've been disappointed by so many things in Dragon Age: Inquisition, but this was a big one. Before I started DAI, I had just done my playthrough of DA2, and I felt that by the end of it, I had gotten really decent AI routines for my companions. Even something as simple as always having a couple of my characters gang up on the characters with the lowest health was really useful.

 

I mean, even with good tactics in DA:O and DA2, the AI would still do dumb stuff a lot of the time, but it just feels like they're way dumber in Inquisition, and on top of other changes to combat and tactics, I'm just not loving this aspect of the game.

[A-T-R-A]

I miss being able to have my teammates target enemy by rank as well.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Sadly I doubt we see anything like tactics from DAO again since games are developed predominantly for console, and nobody with a controller likes to go through big, detailed menus apparently.

Forget menus.  I want an API.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Sadly I doubt we see anything like tactics from DAO again since games are developed predominantly for console, and nobody with a controller likes to go through big, detailed menus apparently.

 

The funny thing is that EA doesn't necessarily have any problem slinging menus and numbers at people. Madden, for example, has a ton of menus in the management / coaching side of the game. Lots of things crazy like stats to manage and team-building elements. Playbooks. Things like that.

 

Now when you head over toward Bioware..

 

I like to think someone just assumes that RPG players are incapable of doing things like feeding themselves, not sticking their toes in their mouths, or not setting themselves on fire. Because honestly, I'm not sure who the hell DAI is aiming at because it's so simplistic. I suppose if it had DAO's tactics system you could literally let the game play itself without any real input from the player other than "move" and "hit X to bypass conversation".

[KCMeredith]

Varric, get up on that hill!

 

Blackwall will block the path, Bull and I will charge in from the side. Got it? GO!

 

No...no Varric stay up there...Blackwall, guard that area, STOP running around oh awesome Bull is down.

 

 

- My nightmare playthrough in a nutshell