168 respuestas en este tema

[Calister68]

Ok, let's start a new thread about my sewer tileset !

Why a sewer tileset ? Well, I must say sewers are one of my favorite place for a good old dungeon crawl, and I don't think I ever made a module without at least a sewer area.

I know there already exists several sewers tileset for nwn2 (3, as far as I know). Among these, the RWS deep sewers is probably my favorite, with its nice old-roman sewers design. I used it a lot in my modules. Tupoun's tileset has certainly the most impressive graphics, but it suffers from some problems, especially a performance issue. In addition, I always found this tileset too... well, clean, for a sewer !

So I decided to build my own sewers, using some of Tupoun's (or more exactly, Bethesda ?) textures, and taking inspiration from some of the features one can see in Oblivion's imperial city sewers.

 

For the moment, I only made a few tiles, but I think it's enough to have a glimpse of this wet and stinky place

 

Screen 1

Screen 2

 

I hope you like it !

[rjshae]

An aspect I enjoyed with the sewer systems in both Oblivion and Witcher is the degree verticality; there are some nice side stairs up to street level, as well as cross-overs and low passages down in the sewer channels.

[MokahTGS]

I'd echo the above idea and also like to point out that the Witcher sewers had a lot of skylights that made them feel much more connected to the upper world instead of just being a world unto themselves.

[PJ156]

Me three The most interesting areas for me are ones which connect intelligently with the areas around them. So sewer opening in the ceilings and perhaps a full sized opening to outside would make a good set for me. RWS did this though I find that set small.

 

I like sewers too. They are the urban dungeon and if, like me, you like a little low fantasy in your module creation they are a perfect hideout for the bad guys.

 

What I think RWS got right is that a sewer is not a place for people to walk round. Only the very largest channels would have walk ways and then these are for maintenance, not for large groups of critters to stand and watch the poo go by. Nine times out of ten the party should be up to their knees in water and detritus. As well the passages should get smaller as you move away from the main areas until they become unavailable for all but the huge rats. I have not done a city that could have an operating sewer but I have thought about this. I would use placed sounds to indicate where the player was. Market sounds or bell sounds that filter through the grate with shafts of light.

 

There is also some nice role play for the party when the channels get smaller. There can be areas that cannot be accessed without shrinking first? .... I digress.

 

I know you did not ask for opinion here but a perfect sewer set for me would have:

 

A good height range

Less use of walkways and thought about how you get from the walkway to the channels

Lots of channel only tiles

A half or 1/3 width corridor set that were channel only

Lots of places where the outside can be inferred via light or ladders.

 

For placeables:

 

Large soil piles

Gratings that cover channel so that grate is the walk way

Wooden fabrications that form large walkable areas over the channel. these would form Islands on which bad guys could congregate.

Sticks and detritus

 

Other

 

A walking sound for wading, so the footstep sound can be changed when the PC enters the channel.

 

Sorry, this is your project I know. I just get carried away when the thought of a new tile set coming especially one as important as the sewer set. I hope there are some useful seeds of ideas in the lists and I am really looking forward to seeing some new screens.

 

PJ

[Calister68]

Thank you all for your suggestions. Concerning the open skylight, I thought to build a tile like that, though I'm not sure how to handle the lighting. With some lights and placeables, I can build some interesting things with the tiles I've already done.

 

PJ, I don"t remember having seen a tile in the RWS tileset with an opening to outside. Do you have a picture of this one ?

 

I'll also try to make large channels tiles, where the adventurers can experience a good bath in murky waters.

[rjshae]

I find it's probably best to leave lighting effects to the visual effect placeables. A few builders didn't like it when I added a glow map to some tiles.

[PJ156]

Sorry Calister, my bad use of punctuation. RWS did a connection to a cave tile iirc but they had the holes in the ceiling to allow access to the street.

 

I like the light through the grating but I agree with RJS to leave the lighting to the user so they can set their own ambiance.

 

As I said before, I am really excited to see this project. Thank you for sharing and good luck with the rest of the build.

 

PJ 

[kamal_]

I find it's probably best to leave lighting effects to the visual effect placeables. A few builders didn't like it when I added a glow map to some tiles.

Correct, there's no need to make the daylight effect part of the tile. A builder can use my tintable tile blocks to make any color for the outside they want.

[kamal_]

I know sewers are a rpg trope but sewers remind me of how terribly dumb rpg city urban planners are. Every sewer continent wide is filled with kobolds, trolls, gigantic spiders, bandits/murderers, wererats, and other nasties, always preying on the populace above. Just a bit of proper planning like thick grates where the sewers empty as well as between sections, choke-points too small for people to get through, etc and they could make sewers safe. If the only point where you can get down into the sewers is in the middle of town or the ruler's castle, no one's going to be hiding in the sewers.

 

/that's why Crimmor has no visitable sewers, they have proper planning. They also burn their dead, so no undead armies raised by necromancers.

[Claudius33]

Well, you can use sewers as an alternate way to break into a fortress or escape from a prison. Putting nasty beasts or guards depend on the scenario of course.

[Tchos]

Correct, there's no need to make the daylight effect part of the tile. A builder can use my tintable tile blocks to make any color for the outside they want.

Or as I would use, a self-illuminated sky/environment map, surrounded by vegetation.

[kamal_]

Well, you can use sewers as an alternate way to break into a fortress or escape from a prison. Putting nasty beasts or guards depend on the scenario of course.

Same problem. The fortress/prison wants to keep people out/in, why rely on guards when you can prevent access completely for all but the highly magic powered (who would defeat your guards anyway) ?

[rjshae]

As the saying goes, today's solutions become tomorrow's problems. Sewers may be constructed during a particular ruler's reign in order to fix one problem--raw sewage in the streets--but without consideration for the other problems it may introduce. Those rulers who follow may not want to pay to eliminate the minor nuisance it creates.

 

Anyway, urban planning was pretty rare during the late middle ages.

[Claudius33]

 

Same problem. The fortress/prison wants to keep people out/in, why rely on guards when you can prevent access completely for all but the highly magic powered (who would defeat your guards anyway) ?

 

 

It depends on the story . In a semi realistic mod, you may have alternate ways such as sewers.

 

Samples in 16 Cygni ;

Spoiler

In Part II, entrances of a town were heavily guarded. The only way to leave the town was to go through sewers. There you met strange critters in accordance with the scenario.

 

In Part III, you had to free someone from a prison. You had to go through forgotten undergrounds to get in the prison ... 

 

In a highly magical world why wouldn't guards use magic too (at least some of them)?

 

Sewers do not necessarily mean : hey guys I've lost my sword in the sewers infested by spiders / rats / undeads, could you retrieve it?

[Dann-J]

 

 

Anyway, urban planning was pretty rare during the late middle ages.

 

So were sewer systems in general (well planned or not).  Any sort of sewer system would seem to be out of place in a setting based largely on mediaeval Europe. Yet they were reasonably common in much older civilisations (like the Romans, Greeks, Minoans and Egyptians, for instance). The Dark Ages have a lot to answer for.

 

Releasing a few otyughs into your sewer system is one way to keep the riffraff out. They're intelligent enough to be reasoned with, so they could pay for their 'food' with an agreement to attack anyone who isn't wearing a specific insignia and who doesn't know a code word. The city planners also get an unclogging service out of the bargain.

 

Smart adventurers merely have to steal a maintenance uniform and overhear the code word (or pay big money for both via the black market) in order to traverse the sewers safely. If they get lost, they can simply ask the nearest otyugh for directions.

[rjshae]

Releasing a few otyughs into your sewer system is one way to keep the riffraff out. They're intelligent enough to be reasoned with, so they could pay for their 'food' with an agreement to attack anyone who isn't wearing a specific insignia and who doesn't know a code word. The city planners also get an unclogging service out of the bargain.

 

Maybe some day we'll have one for NWN2... still hoping.

[Hellfire_RWS]

Maybe some day we'll have one for NWN2... still hoping.

they would be easy to convert to NWN2 if the animations ever got finished

[PJ156]

 

Anyway, urban planning was pretty rare during the late middle ages.

 

As were sewers

 

Ooops! DannJ got there first ....

 

PJ

Editado por PJ156, 31 julio 2015 - 05:46 .

[Claudius33]

Well, medieval cities built on top of a Roman city such as Paris or London had underground sewers, but mostly fallen into oblivion, so rather appropriate for intrigue ...

 

Besides, why more sophisticated Elves (assuming some live on ground) and more craftier Dwarves wouldn't have sewers?

[Tchos]

Besides, why more sophisticated Elves (assuming some live on ground) and more craftier Dwarves wouldn't have sewers?

 

That was the backstory of the Vizima sewers, in The Witcher -- remnants of an older elven civilisation.

[Happycrow]

We use sewers extensively, so I'm all kinds of keen to see how these come out (our PW is based in Phlan, which is sort of like 1980s Beirut -- a place that was once the local pearl of civilization and learning, and is currently trying to get permanently out of lots of rubble and unsought-for adenturing happening" status).  So for a setting like ours, sewers are GREAT.

 

One thing I'd like to see is really nice transition tiles in order to handle the "subterranean thing broke in HERE and HERE and HERE, and in THIS place the system has degraded but you can see how the water has dug a channel into the limestone, opening up on caverns HERE...."  =)

[kamal_]

We use sewers extensively, so I'm all kinds of keen to see how these come out (our PW is based in Phlan, which is sort of like 1980s Beirut -- a place that was once the local pearl of civilization and learning, and is currently trying to get permanently out of lots of rubble and unsought-for adenturing happening" status).  So for a setting like ours, sewers are GREAT.

 

One thing I'd like to see is really nice transition tiles in order to handle the "subterranean thing broke in HERE and HERE and HERE, and in THIS place the system has degraded but you can see how the water has dug a channel into the limestone, opening up on caverns HERE...."  =)

Have you seen the Calister's Pits and Entrances pack? It's got a number of nice transition tiles.

[Happycrow]

Yup. They seriously are.

[Calister68]

I'm glad to see this tileset is so much anticipated !

I'll try to satisfy as much demands as I can, but I'm not sure my skills will be good enough to meet the needs

 

Currently, I'm doing some lighting tests (with a new basement window - I think I'll rename this set "the basement windows tileset")...

 

Screen 1

Screen 2

 

Next thing to do : a large channel ! (with a lot of slime ?)...

 

edit : and this is the original tile.

[kamal_]

That was the backstory of the Vizima sewers, in The Witcher -- remnants of an older elven civilisation.

Remnants of an older civilization that was eaten by the things living in the sewers...