67 réponses à ce sujet

[Chealec]

I like the idea ... even though I suspect, in my game, every NPC team would be led by a space-Mabari and would result in the retrieval of bones ... or dog biscuits!

 

Would be nice for different outcomes as well depending on the squad skills and success rating of the mission; from ending up needing med-evac through to discovering "secret" locations, stashes or caches; perhaps with rare instances of finding locations of sub-quests that you might otherwise miss.

 

<comms open> "Sir, we found an electrical signal emanating from deep within a cave system but we had to bug out as the place was overrun with mutant space badgers - requesting assistance!"

 

<reply> Oki Jones, you and the other red-shirts hold tight, we'll be there shortly!

[Grieving Natashina]

I like the idea ... even though I suspect, in my game, every NPC team would be led by a space-Mabari and would result in the retrieval of bones ... or dog biscuits!

Okay, the thought of a varren doing little doggy "fetch" quests is one of the most adorable ideas I've read over the last few days.  Heck, they are very trainable.  They could bring back a few key parts for side quests for something like that.  It would also be fun to see the squad interact with one. 

[Chealec]

Okay, the thought of a varren doing little doggy "fetch" quests is one of the most adorable ideas I've read over the last few days.  Heck, they are very trainable.  They could bring back a few key parts for side quests for something like that.  It would also be fun to see the squad interact with one. 

 

Oooooh Varren companion like the Mabari warhound ... there's a petition I could get behind!

 

 

"Good fishddog ... nice fishdog ... now give the nice man his leg back!"

[Grieving Natashina]

Oooooh Varren companion like the Mabari warhound ... there's a petition I could get behind!

 

 

"Good fishddog ... nice fishdog ... now give the nice man his leg back!"

Glad you liked it.  

 

I do think that a new thread should be started with that topic idea so this one doesn't get derailed.  

[Chealec]

Glad you liked it.  

 

I do think that a new thread should be started with that topic idea so this one doesn't get derailed.  

 

Just done it as I couldn't resist </derailment>

[Grieving Natashina]

Just done it as I couldn't resist </derailment>

Thanks!  

[themikefest]

This is a stupid complaint.

No its not.

 

In Jack's case she doesn't perform to her full potential because a building wasn't blown up. Because of that not happening another squadmate is killed if she is maintaining the barrier. Or she will die when fighting the baby reaper. So much for the tough human biotic, right?

 

If the squadmates can't put aside their problem for one mission, would you want them on your squad? 

 

Now I like that Bioware put in the loyalty missions, but to tie them in with deciding if the squadmate lives or dies, I don't agree with. If anything I would have it effect their relationship with Shepard for not helping them

[Former_Fiend]

I found the loyalty system in ME2 was really misnamed. What it really represented was focus. Whether the person's mind was really on the mission or not. 

 

Some of the excuses were flimsier than others, and the Miranda/Jack Tali/Legion arguments don't really work under that interpretation though.

 

So I think the ultimate conclusion is that it had some kinks to work out.

[Linkenski]

Suicide Mission was a bit of a one-hit-wonder. In Witcher 3 they took the same idea but added it into the mid-late campaign but when I got there my reaction was "oh, it's like ME2's suicide mission" and it actually got too predictable and it suffered from the same "completionist victory" issue as well.

I think ME1 set the bar for how to make immersive and cinematic interactive narrative. ME2 is an example of reward and player agency (and completionism) and Witcher 2 was a good example of choice and consequence altering the critical path of the main campaign.

Witcher 3 copied Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Inquisition copied Witcher 2 but in both cases the copied version was no better than their source.

Therefore I hope ME:A has a new trick up its sleeve rather than simply walking in its predecessors' footsteps.

[Sidney]

No its not.
 
In Jack's case she doesn't perform to her full potential because a building wasn't blown up. Because of that not happening another squadmate is killed if she is maintaining the barrier. Or she will die when fighting the baby reaper. So much for the tough human biotic, right?
 
If the squadmates can't put aside their problem for one mission, would you want them on your squad? 
 
Now I like that Bioware put in the loyalty missions, but to tie them in with deciding if the squadmate lives or dies, I don't agree with. If anything I would have it effect their relationship with Shepard for not helping them

I agree if these were professionals but let's face it Jack isn't a mountain of mental stability and strength anyways. I can see her getting "off her game". Zaeed is similarly a "pro" but a pro whose cheese has slipped off the ****** a bit.

Yeah they are sub-optimal from a SEAL Team 6 by the numbers standpoint but what Shep is doing is basically a massive gamble where you need that ability to win big so you take some questionable types who might be able to go above and beyond. To use an American football metaphor you want Brett Favre not Tom Brady on your squad.

[themikefest]

I agree if these were professionals but let's face it Jack isn't a mountain of mental stability and strength anyways. I can see her getting "off her game". Zaeed is similarly a "pro" but a pro whose cheese has slipped off the ****** a bit.

Yeah they are sub-optimal from a SEAL Team 6 by the numbers standpoint but what Shep is doing is basically a massive gamble where you need that ability to win big so you take some questionable types who might be able to go above and beyond. To use an American football metaphor you want Brett Favre not Tom Brady on your squad.

Where would you fit Garrus? He was ex military, but if his loyalty mission isn't completed he falls apart as a fireteam leader and gets killed for it

[Sidney]

Where would you fit Garrus? He was ex military, but if his loyalty mission isn't completed he falls apart as a fireteam leader and gets killed for it

..and and that same logic means that for people like Garrus, Thane and especially Legion the logic doesn't work as well. I always wanted Thane to be less putting his mind at ease than finding a temporary cure and with Legion upgrading him for example.

BTW the word censored in my previous post was crack er......seriously?

[Former_Fiend]

Suicide Mission was a bit of a one-hit-wonder. In Witcher 3 they took the same idea but added it into the mid-late campaign but when I got there my reaction was "oh, it's like ME2's suicide mission" and it actually got too predictable and it suffered from the same "completionist victory" issue as well.

I think ME1 set the bar for how to make immersive and cinematic interactive narrative. ME2 is an example of reward and player agency (and completionism) and Witcher 2 was a good example of choice and consequence altering the critical path of the main campaign.

Witcher 3 copied Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Inquisition copied Witcher 2 but in both cases the copied version was no better than their source.

Therefore I hope ME:A has a new trick up its sleeve rather than simply walking in its predecessors' footsteps.

 

I'm certainly not against MEA having a new trick. I don't think this should be the gimmick the game hangs it's hat on. 

 

I just see potential in the mechanic and think it's kind of been going to waste.

 

And the majority of the squad twiddling their thumbs on the ship/in camp/skyhold is a huge pet peeve of mine that I want to see addressed and done away with forever. 

[Sidney]

I'm certainly not against MEA having a new trick. I don't think this should be the gimmick the game hangs it's hat on. 
 
I just see potential in the mechanic and think it's kind of been going to waste.
 
And the majority of the squad twiddling their thumbs on the ship/in camp/skyhold is a huge pet peeve of mine that I want to see addressed and done away with forever.

No I like having James twiddling this thumbs on the Normamdy. It allows me to imagine I've grounded his dumb self for annoying me too much.

[dreamgazer]

ME2 is an example of reward and player agency (and completionism)

 

Reward? Eh, sure. Again, relying on daddy issues as a determining factor for not getting someone killed in the process is rather silly, though.

 

Player agency? Not really, no. Choices don't actually matter there at all.  You could simply not give a crap about any (all) of the characters and their loyalty missions, select whomever for whatever chore, and the story outcome is the exact same. Even the FailShep run, deemed non-canon, accomplishes the exact same things. 

[dreamgazer]

No its not.

 

In Jack's case she doesn't perform to her full potential because a building wasn't blown up. Because of that not happening another squadmate is killed if she is maintaining the barrier. Or she will die when fighting the baby reaper. So much for the tough human biotic, right?

 

If the squadmates can't put aside their problem for one mission, would you want them on your squad? 

 

Now I like that Bioware put in the loyalty missions, but to tie them in with deciding if the squadmate lives or dies, I don't agree with. If anything I would have it effect their relationship with Shepard for not helping them

 

Exactly. The "conflict" of personal missions and the repercussions of contrived loyalty mechanics are two different things. 

[Former_Fiend]

No I like having James twiddling this thumbs on the Normamdy. It allows me to imagine I've grounded his dumb self for annoying me too much.

 

Well, someone has to stay behind and guard the ship.

[dreamgazer]

Well, someone has to stay behind and guard the ship.

 

Wish someone would've told that to ME2. 

 

[Former_Fiend]

Wish someone would've told that to ME2. 

 

 

I love Miranda, but that was not her finest idea.

[Grieving Natashina]

Wish someone would've told that to ME2. 

 

For the sake of Fiend's thread, I shall keep my ranting and raving about the contrived setup for the SM out of here.  I have a post in the Basic Mistakes thread, in case anyone is curious.  I will simply say that I agree with you, and I hope that we don't have something that forced to kick the main plot back into high gear again.  Otherwise, it's late (for me) and I'm not up for ranting at the moment.  

 

Thankfully, with some of the ideas I've seen bouncing around in the thread, that doesn't seem to be an idea that most people are supporting. 

[Sidney]

Wish someone would've told that to ME2. 
 

That contrivance to have all the people who mattered off the ship was awful.

[SerriceIceDandy]

What I'd like to see implemented from the suicide mission is the impending and looming feeling of consequence that the mechanics brought on. If it was your first time going in, and you didn't know the criteria, there was that feeling of 'I really have to choose carefully'. That's what I'd like to see. 

And if there's a loyalty system, I'd prefer it to be similar to Dragon Age's approval system. If they respect you based on your actions, it makes more sense than 'Well, you've resolved my relationship issue with [family member], I'm quite prepared to die for your cause now'. 

Edit: But throw in Ashely vs Kaiden situations. Because sometimes the best outcome just isn't achievable and not everybody survives. And make it unavoidable.

[MegaIllusiveMan]

If this is a new Trilogy coming up, then no...  Otherwise, we'll get the same problem we had when importing ME2 to ME3... "Too many variables! Too many variables!"

 

But if they are actually planning on those variables in the future, so why not?

[Sidney]

Reward? Eh, sure. Again, relying on daddy issues as a determining factor for not getting someone killed in the process is rather silly, though.
 
Player agency? Not really, no. Choices don't actually matter there at all.  You could simply not give a crap about any (all) of the characters and their loyalty missions, select whomever for whatever chore, and the story outcome is the exact same. Even the FailShep run, deemed non-canon, accomplishes the exact same things.

This is always true. Malek always fails, Harbinger always dies, the Arch Demon is always defeated. There are no "wrong" choices because there are two states victory or death. There is no Harbinger half wins outcome.

[dreamgazer]

Thankfully, with some of the ideas I've seen bouncing around in the thread, that doesn't seem to be an idea that most people are supporting. 

 

I agree with the mechanics of Fiend's idea, wholeheartedly, but the dramatic storytelling aspect is something that comes into the equation, too, and it frequently gets overlooked when talking about the awesomesauce of the rather flawed Suicide Mission.