129 réponses à ce sujet

[Killroy]

If the thread title isn't clear enough, I mean what if Andromeda focused on fleshing out the new setting rather than telling a story that happens to be set in the Andromeda galaxy? The trilogy fleshed out the Milky Way as it went, and that's still entirely possible for Andromeda across a new trilogy, but we were kind of thrown headlong into the setting and the lore and the story and the characters all at once. A big chunk of the groundwork was done in text as a prologue( ). It might not have felt particularly overwhelming or inadequate to many, but the Milky Way is obviously a much more familiar setting than Andromeda. 

 

So how would you feel about ME:A having no traditional structure(beginning, middle, end; act 1, act 2, act 3) and instead be about exploring our new setting, with character building and skirmishes along the way to set the stage for future titles to tell more structured and "epic" stories?

 

[Kabooooom]

Honestly, I would prefer an even balance of both world building and story telling.

I feel like Mass Effect 1 had that balance. The only problem was the pacing.

[Broganisity]

Both is better than focusing on only one.

[dreamgazer]

Yeah, a better-paced version of what ME1 accomplished and more exciting exploration sounds about right.

[KaiserShep]

¿Por qué no ambos?

[pdusen]

It could turn out well, but it isn't really what I expect, or want, from Mass Effect.

[BabyPuncher]

No.

[RoboticWater]

BioWare works best within structure, but I'd consider the move to open world (ish) a waste if there wasn't a good deal of world building narrative.

 

Ideally the game would be broken down like ME1: its acts divided into sectors which can be completed in any order. Side content/world building would just reinforce those major narrative arcs.

[AlanC9]

You mean something like Skyrim, where the game just rattles along until you get bored and give up?

[RoboticWater]

You mean something like Skyrim, where the game just rattles along until you get bored and give up?

Environmental storytelling can work. Skyrim just has lame gameplay, unoriginal lore, and poor presentation.

[Sir Froggie]

Morrowind would be a better example of world building than either Skyrim or Oblivion.

[wolfhowwl]

BioWare works best within structure, but I'd consider the move to open world (ish) a waste if there wasn't a good deal of world building narrative.

 

Ideally the game would be broken down like ME1: its acts divided into sectors which can be completed in any order. Side content/world building would just reinforce those major narrative arcs.

 

Honestly I thought the narrative design that ME1 and several other BioWare games used isn't very good.

 

The game stalls out while the player goes through the (usually four) separate plot coupon episodes that can't build on each other or often even interact much because the player can complete them in any order. It also has the effect of making it difficult to integrate the characters with the plot.

[AlanC9]

What's an example of this done right?

[silverserfer28]

To me this next mass effect looks like he was watching the planets like a security guard uses his camera screen to catch crooks,
So im guessing we,us the gamer are a security patrol unit who help planets when a threat possesses that planet or galaxy we try to eradicate it as a protection of such maybe ,
Im only going off the video i seen on andromeda but it looked like that to me in my personal opinion.

[Killroy]

To me this next mass effect looks like he was watching the planets like a security guard uses his camera screen to catch crooks,
So im guessing we,us the gamer are a security patrol unit who help planets when a threat possesses that planet or galaxy we try to eradicate it as a protection of such maybe ,
Im only going off the video i seen on andromeda but it looked like that to me in my personal opinion.

 

 You're way off.

[RoboticWater]

Honestly I thought the narrative design that ME1 and several other BioWare games used isn't very good.

 

The game stalls out while the player goes through the (usually four) separate plot coupon episodes that can't build on each other or often even interact much because the player can complete them in any order. It also has the effect of making it difficult to integrate the characters with the plot.

Good point. Maybe gate off the second two arcs so that they can build off of the first two. That should leave enough room for both exploration and a developing story.

[N7Jamaican]

If I wanted to only explore, world build then I'd buy No Man's Sky.  I love Mass Effect for their gameplay, story, and exploration.  

[Killroy]

If I wanted to only explore, world build then I'd buy No Man's Sky.  I love Mass Effect for their gameplay, story, and exploration.  

 

Why would focusing on world building rather than a single "epic" story preclude gameplay or storytelling?

[Hiemoth]

Good point. Maybe gate off the second two arcs so that they can build off of the first two. That should leave enough room for both exploration and a developing story.

 

But even with this, the essential problem remains. Let's call the story arcs 1A, 1B, 2A and 2B. With this structure there is very little room for character arcs, as nothing in 1A can really refer to 1B as the game has no knowledge in what order things happen. The same with 2A and 2B, which leaves the pacing really loose. This is a fundamental problem with games which focus on exploration and concurrent hubs, as seen in ME1 and DAO, and to some degree DAI. ME3 had character arcs, but it really forced the pacing which allowed them to do that.

 

For me, the ideal would perhaps be DA2 structure. Three or four larger storyarcs, but while forcing the pacing in the storyarcs, also allow for exploration and sidequests.

[Killroy]

But even with this, the essential problem remains. Let's call the story arcs 1A, 1B, 2A and 2B. With this structure there is very little room for character arcs, as nothing in 1A can really refer to 1B as the game has no knowledge in what order things happen. The same with 2A and 2B, which leaves the pacing really loose. This is a fundamental problem with games which focus on exploration and concurrent hubs, as seen in ME1 and DAO, and to some degree DAI. ME3 had character arcs, but it really forced the pacing which allowed them to do that.

 

For me, the ideal would perhaps be DA2 structure. Three or four larger storyarcs, but while forcing the pacing in the storyarcs, also allow for exploration and sidequests.

 

What about a system where going to specific places and doing specific things will trigger story/character missions and scenes? Like going to a specific moon triggers a story mission that seems one-off but hints at something larger, to be dealt with in a later game, and the way you deal with that mission triggers scenes on board your ship that develop a character or characters further? And the more of these individual things you trigger the more content you get, in terms of gameplay, lore, character interaction and character development?

It rewards exploration in immediately tangible ways and long term ways.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I strongly support the OP's suggestion.

[Steelcan]

No, BioWare has been doing a very poor job of building their worlds recently (when they're not abandoning them for the nearest celestial body)

[Sylvius the Mad]

No, BioWare has been doing a very poor job of building their worlds recently (when they're not abandoning them for the nearest celestial body)

That suggests to me that they should devote more resources to it.

[Steelcan]

That suggests to me that they should devote more resources to it.

I think its something that doesn't play to their strengths at all and instead leaves them open for their most consistent errors.

They're resources are better spent building characters, relationships, and trying to improve their woefully mediocre main story lines rather than trying to build a world that will inevitably be riddled with lore inconsistency, half assed details, and a generally sanitized approach that leaves much of the setting more lifeless than my social status in Junio High

[Killroy]

No, BioWare has been doing a very poor job of building their worlds recently (when they're not abandoning them for the nearest celestial body)

 

I disagree. I think Thedas is the most interesting game world going and I loved the Mass Effect "world" as well. I think BioWare puts more time and thought into world building than any other RPG maker right now. They build in layers of complexity right from jump and in the case of Thedas/Dragon Age they clearly had many, many games' worth of lore built up before Origins even hit shelves.