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Should BioWare make the move to "T for Teen" with Andromeda?


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#251
Feybrad

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I honestly wouldn't care.

 

I don't give much of a Shyte about how much Blood and Gore and Stuff is displayed, I can totally live without it.

I also don't think constant swearing adds much to a Character and if it has to be, you can just as easy use made-up words and tell everyone that's Future-Slang.

And finally (keep in Mind, this is only a personal and not entirely rational Opinion) I feel it has more Class, if they don't show Nudity and just fade to black.

 

And - voilá, there's a T-rating with the Game's Story not in any significant Way influenced, enabling BioWare to sell more of their Games, making more Money, which enables them in Turn to make more of their Games I have all enjoyed thus far.

 

So, I'm indifferent or even slightly positive to the Idea of making a T-rated BioWare Game.



#252
SnakeCode

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So even with rating T the game would still have adult themes and heavy and disturbing content.. but toned down sex scenes with underwears on, no blood after you brutally kill person and no cuss words?

 

That's what I have concluded from this thread and discussion about ratings.

 

:huh:

 

That usually seems to be the case, but there are exceptions. Arkham Knight is 'M' rated for example, but contains neither sex scenes nor profanity. It explores some dark, adult themes, but I wouldn't say more so than Arkham Asylum and Arkham City. Both of which are 'T' rated.

 

 

As for the thread topic overall, I think devs, especially one's working from original IPs, should attempt to see their artistic vision through. Create the game they want to make, with the story they want to tell, then just kinda let the chips land where they may with regards to the rating.


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#253
Majestic Jazz

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To be fair, nobody in the world except for you thinks Bioware should be looking to GTA for pointers on how to do anything.


Who said anything about Bioware copying Rockstar or GTA? Please find where I said that.

I only used GTA5 as an example to show that unlike movies where PG13 is needed for mass appeal, in videogames many games that ar rated M sell millions of units and their M rating and its content doesnt decrease sales.

Get it now? Or is that too much for you to comprehend?

#254
LinksOcarina

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I say go for M still. It might as well be regarding the themes of Sci-Fi that can exist.



#255
goishen

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Honestly, if Jack hadn't been in the game...   I'm not sure how I would'a felt about it.  I say say keep in an M rated game. 

 

I mean, that opening conversation you have with her is supposed to shock you...     And it made me sit up and go, "Wait, what did she just say?"



#256
Majestic Jazz

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Trying to appease what may be the most prudish person in the world makes no sense, just build the game, and take what ever arbitrary rating you get. I will buy it one way or the other if it is good.


I agree but that wont happen cause a lot of people here like to play the victim/prude card and demand that Bioware makes a game that specifically appeals to their moral standards.

I do not like to overly sexualized or racialized themes in many Martin Scorsese films but you dont see me complaining. If I dont like the art style/tone then I dont play it or watch it.

If ME4 being M is too much for someone or the sexual or violent themes is too much, then who is forcing that person to play it?

#257
Giant ambush beetle

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I say no to this because I've never been a fan of limitations for no good reason. Watering it down to a Teen rating would result in no gains whatsoever, it  would only hurt the game. 



#258
FKA_Servo

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Get it now? Or is that too much for you to comprehend?


Not to worry. Nothing you've written was too difficult for me to understand, I promise you.

Let's dig in and find where I supported Bioware reverting to T rated games only while we're scavenging around.

#259
marcelo caldas

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a36c59149d93ec29b358edfa157f9c90.jpg

Nudity, sex, profanity, and excessive violence seem to be sore spots with a segment of this fanbase for a number of different reasons. What better way to restrain these things, and open up new revenue opportunities, than to aim for a T rating as a benchmark for any and all content? BioWare's already gone back in that direction with Star Wars: The Old Republic, after all.

Would you be bothered by this? Why or why not? Do the things you enjoy about Mass Effect demand a MATURE rating?


Meh

#260
Suketchi

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Think about it, though. Think about the expanded audience the rating will cover an the comfort level of parents buying this for their kids.

 

And then think about them choosing which of two well-drawn characters they must kill.

 

Virmire asks the player to consider which of two lives is more important to the individual, which one is expendable, and to pull the trigger.

 

Such as?

 

Again, I'd like a refresher on these things, and for a cogent case to be made for a T-rated Mass Effect game. 

 

In Infamous there were decisions like that. You had to choose between saving doctors, or saving Cole's love interest. It's a T-rated game. 

 

In a lot of ways, Infamous was even worse about those decisions: a lot of them aren't even necessary. You have to choose between sharing provisions with other citizens, or killing them off simply to keep the provisions for yourself, with no consequences to game-play or story depending on your choice. In Mass Effect, decisions are a necessity to the plot. It isn't just senseless violence, and you can approach ruthless actions with some degree of morality. With how these elements of game-play are handled in a T-rated game, I can't see that part of Mass Effect changing if it were to lose it's M-rating. The decisions would just involve less graphic and adult content, which would be more about a change in tone than in the actual decision-making process itself.

 

...That being said, I agree that Mass Effect should remain an M-rated series (Which makes my arguing the T-rated decision process rather counterproductive. I blame it on too much coffee ice-cream). It's adult themes and dark tone are a part of it's identity, and that identity would be lost if it were to become T-rated. That would be like if they made a TV-14/TV-PG Strawberry Shortcake or Mr. Roger's series. 

 

Mass Effect has been M-rated for three games. They already have a target audience. The game has been successful among that audience. To change the rating would be to present the product to an entirely new audience, and would put the success of the product at risk. Bioware would have nothing to gain from that transition, especially when teens are already playing the games, adult content or no. 



#261
Sir Froggie

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I think they would be better off releasing a new T-rated ip, than trying to change one of their already existing ones. In truth I would welcome it, I think their writing style is better suited to lighter fare anyway.



#262
Brass_Buckles

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I honestly wouldn't care.

 

I don't give much of a Shyte about how much Blood and Gore and Stuff is displayed, I can totally live without it.

I also don't think constant swearing adds much to a Character and if it has to be, you can just as easy use made-up words and tell everyone that's Future-Slang.

And finally (keep in Mind, this is only a personal and not entirely rational Opinion) I feel it has more Class, if they don't show Nudity and just fade to black.

 

And - voilá, there's a T-rating with the Game's Story not in any significant Way influenced, enabling BioWare to sell more of their Games, making more Money, which enables them in Turn to make more of their Games I have all enjoyed thus far.

 

So, I'm indifferent or even slightly positive to the Idea of making a T-rated BioWare Game.

 

Well, actually, we would lose some things most likely.  For one, most T-rated games?  You wouldn't get sex with your LI at all, not with all of the other aspects of the game that would push at the limits of what is acceptable for a T-rated game.  Not just "fade to black," but "nothing more than a kiss." I would kind of be okay with that, myself, because I think "sex is a reward and the end goal" is a bit... off, in terms of what romance actually should be, which is making the player feel particularly connected to that romanced character.

 

As others have said, you probably wouldn't be making decisions where you shove someone out a window etc.

 

I have nothing against Teen rated games.  I've played a lot of them, mostly JRPGs and Okami etc.  Some of them are great, actually.  Others less so.  And in some cases, you could argue that the things that make certain games rated Mature, actually make the content of the game very immature.  There was a time that, because of my mistaken impression of what an M-rated game actually was, I would have refused to play one.

 

I don't think ME or DA would lose much if they were reduced in rating, but as others have said, it would limit the developers' freedom more.  Think of what you can do in a PG-13 movie, vs. a movie that is rated R.  That's the difference between Rated T and Rated M--although I think a rated R movie can actually get away with more than a rated M game can, likely due to concerns about games' interactivity.

 

For ME and DA, though, I think they actually genuinely are mature games.  Some 13-year-olds could handle them, but it's pretty clear that isn't the intended audience.  You've got grown-up protagonists (30+ years old, even!), who deal with grown-up situations and enter into grown-up relationships (and we're not just talking about romance, but also friendships, comeraderie, etc.).  While the protagonist and surrounding cast could probably stay the same age even if the game were to be given a lower rating, their behavior would have to be toned down to a level acceptable by parents of 13 year olds.

 

Some examples of things you probably wouldn't be able to have in a teen rated game:  Exotic dancers, Chora's Den, sex with your LI unless heavily censored (still surprised Sims games' sex doesn't bump them to an M rating, but they are nonviolent...), heavy use of profanity, exploding heads from headshots, persistent gore, active murder of your enemies (or non-enemies).

 

I'm not sure about this, but they might also not be able to include LGBT romance options, were the game's rating reduced to Teen.  So, you MIGHT only see straight love interests in a game that's rated Teen.  A lot of times, I think that LGBT content can bump up the ratings.  But again, I'm not sure about that.

 

I don't need sex scenes, and I don't need gore to prove that I'm grown up.  I don't particularly enjoy the strip club scenes (seriously, Bioware, where are the nearly-naked male dancers????) and I don't hire the asari consort or spend my hard-earned gold at the brothels in Dragon Age games.

 

Nevertheless, I think a lot of that M-rated content does set the tone for the worlds the games are set in, and I think the Mature rating is important to give the developers free rein to make their game worlds/universes the way they want to.  And, the average gamer is now in their 30s.  I'm pretty sure that most of us can handle the Mature-rated content--granted, I could live without a lot of it, but I can also live with it.  Sometimes we need to be taken out of our comfort zones, and a game is a safe way to do that.

 

While I think it's important that there are games for younger audiences available, I also think it's important to have games that are actually made with adult players in mind--games that can contain this kind of gritty content and treat it seriously and treat things like relationships and sex seriously, too.  Yeah, I know that BioWare games aren't 100% serious 100% of the time.  They are, after all, games, which we play for fun.  But they are games with a lot of material to think about, in their lore and in their plots and side quests.

 

So no, even though I'm fine with "cleaner" content, I would prefer that Dragon Age and Mass Effect both remain Mature rated.

 

I'd be okay with some new IP of theirs being more teen-friendly though.  And I'd probably still play it.


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#263
DebatableBubble

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Ugh. NO. 



#264
Suron

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Probably wouldn't get too much less.  I present, from a T-rated game:

 

4948442198_43d7584e59_b.jpg

Good point.  Not that I want ME to go Teen.

 

If you played her in B:AC....I doubt even a gay man didn't get turned on a little by how they animated a lot of her "movements" lol



#265
Asari Goddess

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oh hell to the no it'll be another destiny game filled with a mixture grown ups and babies. I don't want them to baby down the game just because they want a wider range of audience. tbh most teens only like to run and gun like call of duty style. Mass effect is a little bit more then just gunning,



#266
goishen

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Good point.  Not that I want ME to go Teen.

 

If you played her in B:AC....I doubt even a gay man didn't get turned on a little by how they animated a lot of her "movements" lol

 

 

 

"That can't be sanitary..."

 

"Not THE POINT, MAN!"

 

EDIT :  And believe it or not, this is the first time I've ever heard this entire conversation.  

 

*sigh*, four years later and I'm still finding out things I didn't know about ME.

 

*wipes tears away from eyes from laughing*



#267
Mcfly616

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 Nudity, sex, profanity, and excessive violence seem to be sore spots with a segment of this fanbase for a number of different reasons.  What better way to restrain these things, and open up new revenue opportunities, than to aim for a T rating as a benchmark for any and all content? BioWare's already gone back in that direction with Star Wars: The Old Republic, after all.
 
Would you be bothered by this? Why or why not? Do the things you enjoy about Mass Effect demand a MATURE rating?

 

336_4.jpg


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#268
RINNZ

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Why the hell did Arkham Knight even get an M rating? I'm almost done the game and I have yet to see anything extreme.

Well, there is the *insert spoiler* scene, but that was just an interrogation.

#269
Asari Goddess

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Why the hell did Arkham Knight even get an M rating? I'm almost done the game and I have yet to see anything extreme.

Well, there is the *insert spoiler* scene, but that was just an interrogation.

 

it's because they want a wider range of audience. ugh these cooperate fks



#270
Brass_Buckles

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Actually "rated T" should get the wider audience than "rated M," although I know parents will still buy their kids M-rated games without paying attention to what's actually in them.

Something I forgot to mention we wouldn't have in-game should the game go teen-rated:

 

Alcohol.

Also, drugs like red sand which Shepard never intentionally took (as far as I could tell) but which are a part of the background of certain areas that we visited in the series.

 

Cullen's lyrium addiction?  Would very much not have been present if DA:I were rated T.



#271
SnakeCode

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Why the hell did Arkham Knight even get an M rating? I'm almost done the game and I have yet to see anything extreme.

Well, there is the *insert spoiler* scene, but that was just an interrogation.

 

The only things I can think of that could be considered darker than the previous games is 

Spoiler
or maybe 
Spoiler
but it's hard to tell, because both Asylum and City covered some pretty dark themes as well.



#272
Asari Goddess

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The only things I can think of that could be considered darker than the previous games is 

Spoiler
or maybe 
Spoiler
but it's hard to tell, because both Asylum and City covered some pretty dark themes as well.

 

true did u hear the conversation the prisoners had when talking to catwoman i was like <.< this is rated what again



#273
HuldraDancer

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Actually "rated T" should get the wider audience than "rated M," although I know parents will still buy their kids M-rated games without paying attention to what's actually in them.

Something I forgot to mention we wouldn't have in-game should the game go teen-rated:

 

Alcohol.

Also, drugs like red sand which Shepard never intentionally took (as far as I could tell) but which are a part of the background of certain areas that we visited in the series.

 

Cullen's lyrium addiction?  Would very much not have been present if DA:I were rated T.

 

Bolded that part because I've played E rated games that have had booze in them yes they call them funny names to mask that but you still go to a bar to get them and you still get cut off after so many drinks. Even played a few where you can make cocktails too and either drink 'em yourself of give them to friends and make them like you :lol:

 

Not that I'm disagreeing with you at all just wanted to point out that part cause I find it slightly amusing about some of my E rated games having that.



#274
Grieving Natashina

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I'm not sure about this, but they might also not be able to include LGBT romance options, were the game's rating reduced to Teen.  So, you MIGHT only see straight love interests in a game that's rated Teen.  A lot of times, I think that LGBT content can bump up the ratings.  But again, I'm not sure about that.

 

Forgive the snip, but I can answer this.   It doesn't affect it at all.  I actually knew this one off of the top of my head.

 

Back in 2012, I wrote a large FAQ for same gender relationships for ToR.  In it, a poster had received a letter from the ESRB after asking about that themselves.  I didn't have a good link to the letter though, so I did some digging.  A link to the ToR boards isn't very conclusive.   :P

 

I'm very pleased to report that nothing has changed since 2012.  I found a link talking about Tomodachi Life, and the author had written the ratings boards to ask that very question.

 

http://www.giantbomb...yway/1100-4918/

 

This is from the ESRB:

"ESRB’s ratings criteria do not distinguish between heterosexual and same-sex content when it comes to addressing sexuality in games. Assuming no other changes were made to the game, the ESRB rating assignment would not be impacted."

 

 

This is from PEGI:

"No, this type of in-game content wouldn’t have altered the rating. PEGI doesn't take peoples sexual preferences into consideration when examining a game. We cannot judge who or why a character/human chooses to love. We look at the content of a game, not the context. There are a few questions in our questionnaire that deal with sex or nudity (Q4, 14, 15, 25, and 35). But as you can see, there’s no distinction between [edit: gay]- or heterosexual contact/relationships.

 


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#275
Drone223

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If the game is intended for a mature audience then it should be rated for a mature audience it'll be a waste of time and money to try and tone it down.