Not ignored; not necessary as it was not mentioned in the previous post of which I replied. This factor made it a Mature title; not the aforementioned swearing and nudity, and set standards for sales in a cRPG.
That was meant with regard to the idea of Skyrim being "made with more restraint in its content".
I'd say it doesn't get more unrestrained than allowing mass murder.
Well, like I said, I'm not attributing the success of DAI or ME2 to the explicit content. Just saying that it isn't hurting them when compared to the sales of their other games.
And SWToR's financial success is based off of subscriptions and microtransactions, things that won't significantly factor in to a game like MEA.
No. It should look to The Witcher 3 and learn how to properly utilize it's M rating. DA: I went in the right step somewhat, but let's keep pushing forward.
Well, like I said, I'm not attributing the success of DAI or ME2 to the explicit content. Just saying that it isn't hurting them when compared to the sales of their other games.
And SWToR's financial success is based off of subscriptions and microtransactions, things that won't significantly factor in to a game like MEA.
MP
That was meant with regard to the idea of Skyrim being "made with more restraint in its content".
I'd say it doesn't get more unrestrained than allowing mass murder.
Based on posts seen from other games, this is often the choice of certain gamers anyway, as they slaughter merchants and other NPC's on a whim. And self restraint was made in both swearing and nudity; context is important.
Still have not chosen to become a cannibal in Skyrim; dismantling the cult is more appealing to me.
I'm curious as to whether or not you honestly believe it's more admirable for a game to show restraint in regards to language and nudity than it is to show restraints in regards to violence.
I love Skyrim, but I lost count of how many people I decapitated in that game. The violence in Bethesda's games is on a different level than the violence in Bioware's games; DAO is the only one that comes close in that regard(DA2 being more comical and cartoony in the way the enemies would explode).
Not to mention the easily moddable nature of Bethesda's games essentially saying, to their PC audience at least, "we're not going to include nudity, but feel free to do so, yourselves."
Based on posts seen from other games, this is often the choice of certain gamers anyway, as they slaughter merchants and other NPC's on a whim. And self restraint was made in both swearing and nudity; context is important.
Still have not chosen to become a cannibal in Skyrim; dismantling the cult is more appealing to me.
Not sure that matters. Your gameplay preferences aside, the swearing/nudity is often optional restricted to either romances or certain characters. Even when it's not, I could point this out in regard to other topics too: breaking and entering, the Dark Brotherhood, random assault, Vampirism in general, all of which is fueled by a jailing system often designed to encourage players to experiment with this sort of content.
The "content is more restrained" defense completely breaks down. If I were concerned about objectionable content, Bethesda should probably be removing all those aspects from their games.
I'd also point out that Fallout: New Vegas(which was not actually made by Bethesda but was published by them) contained significantly more swearing than any Bioware game, and that swearing wasn't contained to a few characters - quite a few random NPC's would through around F-bombs in casual conversation.
For the record, New Vegas also out sold any individual ME game.
No. It should look to The Witcher 3 and learn how to properly utilize it's M rating. DA: I went in the right step somewhat, but let's keep pushing forward.
Not sure some of the BioWare fanbase is ready for aborted fetuses brought back to life and consumed war-orphan children. 
That was meant with regard to the idea of Skyrim being "made with more restraint in its content".
I'd say it doesn't get more unrestrained than allowing mass murder.
Allowing "mass murder" is one thing. That can be achieved in T-rated games by running around attacking every enemy available and LARPing a psychopath. Encouraging mass murder with a guild that rewards the activity, and role-playing in that head-space, is another.
Same goes for cannibalism and, perhaps to a lesser extent, vampirism.
I would say Bioware needs to continue to embrace the M rating like in DAI. Bioware needs to continue down that path but only have the stuff where it is meant to be, I would fine it really unrealistic if everyone on my ship was suddenly walking in the nude lol.
Allowing "mass murder" is one thing. That can be achieved in T-rated games by running around attacking every enemy available and LARPing a psychopath. Encouraging mass murder with a guild that rewards the activity, and role-playing in that head-space, is another.
Same goes for cannibalism and, perhaps to a lesser extent, vampirism.
Case in point; Jak II of the Jak & Daxter series; was essentially a GTA clone where you could slaughter countless defenseless civilians if you wanted, but between the cartoony art style, lack of gore, and the fact that the game never really encourages you to do so, T rating.
I'm curious as to whether or not you honestly believe it's more admirable for a game to show restraint in regards to language and nudity than it is to show restraints in regards to violence.
I love Skyrim, but I lost count of how many people I decapitated in that game. The violence in Bethesda's games is on a different level than the violence in Bioware's games; DAO is the only one that comes close in that regard(DA2 being more comical and cartoony in the way the enemies would explode).
Not to mention the easily moddable nature of Bethesda's games essentially saying, to their PC audience at least, "we're not going to include nudity, but feel free to do so, yourselves."
Not sure that matters. Your gameplay preferences aside, the swearing/nudity is often optional restricted to either romances or certain characters. Even when it's not, I could point this out in regard to other topics too: breaking and entering, the Dark Brotherhood, random assault, Vampirism in general, all of which is fueled by a jailing system often designed to encourage players to experiment with this sort of content.
The "content is more restrained" defense completely breaks down. If I were concerned about objectionable content, Bethesda should probably be removing all those aspects from their games.
Eh, to each his own, but I have to say, the perception that violence is some how more acceptable content to include in video games than language or nudity is something I find legitimately offensive and more than a little disturbing about our culture.
Eh, to each his own, but I have to say, the perception that violence is some how more acceptable content to include in video games than language or nudity is something I find legitimately offensive and more than a little disturbing about our culture.
Eh, to each his own, but I have to say, the perception that violence is some how more acceptable content to include in video games than language or nudity is something I find legitimately offensive and more than a little disturbing about our culture.
I think the idea is pretty terrifying too. Since it operates from the premise that we're influenced by the entertainment we consume, even sanitized violence has the potential to be far more dangerous than nudity/language ever could. Just look at how Storm Troopers firefights are treated in Star Wars. It makes violence out to be fun/entertaining when real combat is anything but.
Eh, to each his own, but I have to say, the perception that violence is some how more acceptable content to include in video games than language or nudity is something I find legitimately offensive and more than a little disturbing about our culture.
Yeah, I wouldn't say it offends me but it's a mindset I definitely don't understand and something I can't get behind. You even see it in threads where people are complaining about "objectification." People will happily kill a nation's worth of nameless people without batting an eye, but the moment the camera lingers on someone's butt for too long, or a female character shows a bit of cleavage, everybody is up in arms.
Only speaking for myself, and with the knowledge that Skyrim is the only Bethesda title I have played to my recollection.
Personally chose to use the Adept setting for Difficulty, as higher settings only nerfed the PC and buffed the opposition. This is not my preference for adding a challenge. So when I started modding my game, additional mods were chosen to do this while keeping PC vs NPC on relatively balanced ground. I mention this because I also choose Melee perk options to increase damage; not increase instant kills. Those chosen are generally the base five Melee Weapon Perks and the one to boost Power Attacks; skip increased chances for crits.
Also not a fan of Mod Overhauls; prefer to tailor my game more specifically. Currently have around 90 mods, but only a few are to enhance combat (eg; Balanced Magic, Deadly Dragons, High Lvl Enemies, Ultimate Combat, and Better Vampires).
As for the Nexus, I choose the option to ignore the so called Adult content mods. Out of sight; out of mind and all that.
Personally, profanity is a larger peeve than the others, as it cannot be avoided as much as the other ESRB content. I prefer to purchase games that are rated Teen to avoid such content, but prefer choice and options in some Mature titles. However, I have chosen to skip the FO series due to unavoidable language, and will stick with TES titles for Bethesda, I guess.
You my friend are missing out on great games with Fallout series. I don't agree with cussing and nudity being wrong in games but only when its over the top. I know I don't like stuff where everyone is always cussing or running around naked because I like that stuff to be done in a tasteful manner.
Just remember in Elder Scrolls games when you have no armor on you are in the nude, the game doesn't show the nudity but covers it with undergarments but the reaction from the NPCs when you do it tell the story that you are naked. Some the sayings the guards do in Skyrim I am sure can be sexual innuados because I know the phrase "I used to be an adventurer like you until I took an arrow to the knee" that actually means marriage. He was adventuring like us but then he fell in love and got married now he needs a more secure job that brings in the payment on a regular basis type thing. Just because somethings are plainly spoken doesn't mean its not there in another form.
You my friend are missing out on great games with Fallout series. I don't agree with cussing and nudity being wrong in games but only when its over the top. I know I don't like stuff where everyone is always cussing or running around naked because I like that stuff to be done in a tasteful manner.
Just remember in Elder Scrolls games when you have no armor on you are in the nude, the game doesn't show the nudity but covers it with undergarments but the reaction from the NPCs when you do it tell the story that you are naked. Some the sayings the guards do in Skyrim I am sure can be sexual innuados because I know the phrase "I used to be an adventurer like you until I took an arrow to the knee" that actually means marriage. He was adventuring like us but then he fell in love and got married now he needs a more secure job that brings in the payment on a regular basis type thing. Just because somethings are plainly spoken doesn't mean its not there in another form.
Yeah, I wouldn't say it offends me but it's a mindset I definitely don't understand and something I can't get behind. You even see it in threads where people are complaining about "objectification." People will happily kill a nation's worth of nameless people without batting an eye, but the moment the camera lingers n someone's butt for too long, or a female character shows a bit of cleavage, everybody is up in arms.
Just remember in Elder Scrolls games when you have no armor on you are in the nude, the game doesn't show the nudity but covers it with undergarments but the reaction from the NPCs when you do it tell the story that you are naked. Some the sayings the guards do in Skyrim I am sure can be sexual innuados because I know the phrase "I used to be an adventurer like you until I took an arrow to the knee" that actually means marriage. He was adventuring like us but then he fell in love and got married now he needs a more secure job that brings in the payment on a regular basis type thing. Just because somethings are plainly spoken doesn't mean its not there in another form.
For me it just comes back to this four letter word; tone.
These games have a very adult tone. They deal with adult fear, adult hate, adult love.
And I think if you take away a lot of the elements that help make the world that way; the sexual content and themes, the language, the alcohol, then at best what you can do is turn out a fairly well written story that just does not feel true to life because it doesn't have a voice to it. It becomes something that has to be constructed around the limitations of it's rating and doesn't feel real. It doesn't feel true to life.
In the other thread, when we're talking about swearing, the claim is made that you can use non-swear words to convey the same emotions as swear words, just making them unnecessary. To an extent that is true in that it is physically possible, but it also isn't very true to life. You can write a character who can get all their points across with words that are going to send your audience to thesaurus.com as well as they could with a tirade of expletives, but the tirade of expletives is going to have something the more verbose character wouldn't; they're going to feel authentic. It could give you something like Michael Pena's character in Ant-Man, which works for a comedy but doesn't work with a more serious tone.
That's just one example. The point is, these games need to be rated M to maintain a mature, adult tone. That's where the believably of the series comes from. It isn't in the ridiculous technology fueled by unobtanium. It's in the authenticity of the characters, and that comes from things that they couldn't get away with on a T rating.
Based on your early comments, I was going to say that I agreed on wanting to deal with adult themes and issues but also was going to ask how that mattered to the actual rating when you look at the things that actually determine ratings. This is a pretty good answer to that question.
I honestly believe that the dialogue, more than anything, is what makes or breaks the believably of a setting. Not all settings need to be believable; if they're fantastical enough or light-hearted enough or over the top enough, you can let belivability slide.
But with a setting like Mass Effect, I think a large part of the draw is belivability, and that's grounded in the characters and the way they talk. They talk like real people in the real world, by and large. And real people in the real world cuss. Real people in the real world don't care if you find their word choice crass, they don't care if they offend you. They don't care if you find it necessary, or immature, or a sign of a lack of education or intelligence. They speak the way they want to speak, and if you don't like it, you can take off.
Of course, in the real world we can tell people what language we do and don't find appropriate to be used in our company and if someone doesn't comply with those boundaries, we can generally choose not to interact with them. The latter ability exists - you get just about everything you need to know about Jack's opinion on your opinion of her cursing after the first conversation, and can cut off contact after that. The former ability is a waste of the game's word budget.
Point is, in real life, people cuss, and we either enjoy it and embrace it, or we avoid it when we can and endure it when we can't. And this is not an aspect of Mass Effect or Dragon Age I want to see removed.
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