836 réponses à ce sujet

[Panda]

Violence and killing in video games and entertainment hasn't really bothered me. You see that even in children games like Mario and so on so unless it's torture, sadistic, something really gory or sexual I don't care much. I guess some can think what violence and killing in video games does to real life people, I'm sure there is lot of studies of that as well and I have read some, but I don't really see it as sth bad or something that should go away. The bottomline is that violence and killing in video games does not seem to make people murderous nor violent, more than they usually are.

 

Also I wonder what makes it worse of killing someone nameless in the game than someone with name and backstory, it's opposite for me when I'm playing.

[Former_Fiend]

I never said that violence in games bothers me. I'm fine with violence in games. Some of my favorite games of all time earned their M rating based solely on the violence they contained.

 

What bothers me is the suggestion that in an M-rated game where we might accept graphic violence, nudity and harsh language are still going too far. That is what bothers me, not the violence itself.

[Elhanan]

I honestly believe that the dialogue, more than anything, is what makes or breaks the believably of a setting. Not all settings need to be believable; if they're fantastical enough or light-hearted enough or over the top enough, you can let belivability slide.
 
But with a setting like Mass Effect, I think a large part of the draw is belivability, and that's grounded in the characters and the way they talk. They talk like real people in the real world, by and large. And real people in the real world cuss. Real people in the real world don't care if you find their word choice crass, they don't care if they offend you. They don't care if you find it necessary, or immature, or a sign of a lack of education or intelligence. They speak the way they want to speak, and if you don't like it, you can take off. 
 
Of course, in the real world we can tell people what language we do and don't find appropriate to be used in our company and if someone doesn't comply with those boundaries, we can generally choose not to interact with them. The latter ability exists - you get just about everything you need to know about Jack's opinion on your opinion of her cursing after the first conversation, and can cut off contact after that. The former ability is a waste of the game's word budget. 
 
Point is, in real life, people cuss, and we either enjoy it and embrace it, or we avoid it when we can and endure it when we can't. And this is not an aspect of Mass Effect or Dragon Age I want to see removed.

But why should Asari, Krogan, Turians, etc use the same expletives as humans, esp when their mating is quite unique and different? Having Wrex make a ref to a quad is for more immersive to the setting than the profanity uttered by some other races (eg; Aria, some Salarians). After all, the time since first contact does not seem appropriate to alter speech much, Turians as the possible exception. For myself, it often breaks immersion.

[Exaltation]

I prefer M/AO.
Anything less is a game for kids.
The scene with Legion for example where a Geth is being deactivated while asking not to,and the Quarian turns off audio.
Send a man flying through a huge building's window just because i can!

[Former_Fiend]

But why should Asari, Krogan, Turians, etc use the same expletives as humans, esp when their mating is quite unique and different? Having Wrex make a ref to a quad is for more immersive to the setting than the profanity uttered by some other races (eg; Aria, some Salarians). After all, the time since first contact does not seem appropriate to alter speech much, Turians as the possible exception. For myself, it often breaks immersion.

 

I can think of dozens of reasons. First and obvious one being that Aria isn't actually saying "f*ck", she's using an Asari explative and our universal translator is roughly equating it to "f*ck". Alternatively she's actually speaking english and understands the connotations of the word and decided they were appropriate to get her point across to a human.

[KaiserShep]

But why should Asari, Krogan, Turians, etc use the same expletives as humans, esp when their mating is quite unique and different? Having Wrex make a ref to a quad is for more immersive to the setting than the profanity uttered by some other races (eg; Aria, some Salarians). After all, the time since first contact does not seem appropriate to alter speech much, Turians as the possible exception. For myself, it often breaks immersion.

 

Well, if you think about it, the exact same thing applies to tamer words like damn, hell, etc.. It's not really worth putting too much thought into. Insert harsh asari word and it gets reshaped by the ME babelfish. 

[Elhanan]

I prefer M/AO.
Anything less is a game for kids.
The scene with Legion for example where a Geth is being deactivated while asking not to,and the Quarian turns off audio.
Send a man flying through a huge building's window just because i can!

Not certain of the ratings, but had lots of time spent in entertaining titles like the old Gold Box games, and have seen that Planescape: Torment was rated Teen, and is a praised title.

[Elhanan]

I can think of dozens of reasons. First and obvious one being that Aria isn't actually saying "...", she's using an Asari explative and our universal translator is roughly equating it to "...". Alternatively she's actually speaking english and understands the connotations of the word and decided they were appropriate to get her point across to a human.

Reasons perhaps, but hardly immersive, esp as humans are often in the minority, and she is not always using it to address Shepard. And was not aware that the Alliance had Federation tech.

Still prefer not to have it, and then options to restrict it if included. If not, choose pass on the game itself.

[Il Divo]

Reasons perhaps, but hardly immersive, esp as humans are often in the minority, and she is not always using it to address Shepard. And was not aware that the Alliance had Federation tech.

Still prefer not to have it, and then options to restrict it if included. If not, choose pass on the game itself.

 

That was mentioned in an ME1 codex, I believe. It also wouldn't matter whom she was addressing since it would translate to Shepard all the same. 

[Il Divo]

But why should Asari, Krogan, Turians, etc use the same expletives as humans, esp when their mating is quite unique and different? Having Wrex make a ref to a quad is for more immersive to the setting than the profanity uttered by some other races (eg; Aria, some Salarians). After all, the time since first contact does not seem appropriate to alter speech much, Turians as the possible exception. For myself, it often breaks immersion.

 

In the context of Wrex, you're probably right. But that's part of the problem here, because this argument works in reverse: people should use dialogue that fits within their culture. Wrex using our slang/expletives probably doesn't make sense. 

 

But then, even if he's not using our profanity, it's still endorsing the use of profanity. See Star Wars and use of the word "Schutta" hence why language is dynamic.  

[Former_Fiend]

Reasons perhaps, but hardly immersive, esp as humans are often in the minority, and she is not always using it to address Shepard. And was not aware that the Alliance had Federation tech.

Still prefer not to have it, and then options to restrict it if included. If not, choose pass on the game itself.

 

It's not immersive to you and strictly to you as far as I can tell. I didn't break my immersion at all. Honestly, a made up expletive may have broken my immersion more since it would have taken me out of the scene for a second as I figured out what exactly she was trying to say.

 

But, alright, for the sake of argument I'll entertain your perception of immersion and have the alien characters not use any cursewords, but how do you feel about the human characters cursing? Can you deny that's realistic and immersive or is your argument based entirely on the idea that you personally do not want to hear cursing?

[Former_Fiend]

Not certain of the ratings, but had lots of time spent in entertaining titles like the old Gold Box games, and have seen that Planescape: Torment was rated Teen, and is a praised title.

 

While I agree there are plenty of good T and below rated games, I find it somewhat hypocritical of you when you try to convince someone of that while yourself dismiss critically acclaimed M-rated games such as the Fallout series as you "not missing anything". 

[Elhanan]

While I agree there are plenty of good T and below rated games, I find it somewhat hypocritical of you when you try to convince someone of that while yourself dismiss critically acclaimed M-rated games such as the Fallout series as you "not missing anything".

I am not; the point I make. The aggravation of having such content included in a game (often out of any context) is not worth my purchase. So I skip titles like Fallout series, the Witcher series, etc, and hopefully will enjoy other selections like Skyrim and SkyWind, as I have not played Morrowind; a praised older game.

[Il Divo]

While I agree there are plenty of good T and below rated games, I find it somewhat hypocritical of you when you try to convince someone of that while yourself dismiss critically acclaimed M-rated games such as the Fallout series as you "not missing anything". 

 

Not to mention, that Planescape still allows the player to perform far more messed up actions than some games with swearing/nudity. More and more, I'm really disliking our rating system. 

[Former_Fiend]

Not to mention, that Planescape still allows the player to perform far more messed up actions than some games with swearing/nudity. More and more, I'm really disliking our rating system. 

 

Agreed. Honestly, having never played Planescape: Torment, myself, but having read a bit about it and what it contains, I'm honestly surprised it isn't rated M.

 

 

I am not; the point I make. The aggravation of having such content included in a game (often out of any context) is not worth my purchase. So I skip titles like Fallout series, the Witcher series, etc, and hopefully will enjoy other selections like Skyrim and SkyWind, as I have not played Morrowind; a praised older game.

 

You're not what? Being hypocritical? Trying to convince someone of the merits of other games that they dismiss? Or are you again asserting that you aren't missing out with games like Fallout?

 

I'm not being facetious, here; I'm honestly not sure what you're tying to get across with that statement. 

[Jay P]

I'm down for you get a T for Teen version if they also make an X version.

I want the most hardcore language.

I want extreme violence.

I want explicit and pornographic sex scenes.

So if you want your version, I want mine also.

[Jay P]

Not to mention, that Planescape still allows the player to perform far more messed up actions than some games with swearing/nudity. More and more, I'm really disliking our rating system.

Planescape is the exception that proves the rule.

If it was remade today, it would me M. And hopefully they would finish the succumbs story line

[Panda]

I think there is also time that Tali curses and it's not translated. She says "boshket" or something similar angrily, the tone makes it sound like cursing at least to me.

[Former_Fiend]

I think there is also time that Tali curses and it's not translated. She says "boshket" or something similar angrily, the tone makes it sound like cursing at least to me.

 

I figured the implication there being that a lot of quarian words just don't translate well into English.

 

From context clues, bosh'tet is variously used to stand in for "b*tch", "bastard", and "sh*thead". 

[Elhanan]

Agreed. Honestly, having never played Planescape: Torment, myself, but having read a bit about it and what it contains, I'm honestly surprised it isn't rated M.
 
You're not what? Being hypocritical? Trying to convince someone of the merits of other games that they dismiss? Or are you again asserting that you aren't missing out with games like Fallout?
 
I'm not being facetious, here; I'm honestly not sure what you're tying to get across with that statement.

Have not yet played PS:T either, though I have it in my GOG files. And I mean that I am not missing anything out by skipping games like Fallout, whether or not they are the media's or majorities choice.

[Panda]

I figured the implication there being that a lot of quarian words just don't translate well into English.

 

From context clues, bosh'tet is variously used to stand in for "b*tch", "bastard", and "sh*thead". 

 

Yes it's probaply like that, some words are translated and some not, curse words included I think aliens having own curses in their own languages is good idea and adds immersion at least to me.

[Former_Fiend]

Have not yet played PS:T either, though I have it in my GOG files. And I mean that I am not missing anything out by skipping games like Fallout, whether or not they are the media's or majorities choice.

 

I wasn't necessarily saying that you are missing out on anything. As much as I enjoy the Fallout series, from this thread and the Open Letter thread, I can certainly see you would find no enjoyment there.

 

My point was that you espousing the virtues of T-rated games to Exaltation is no more valid than someone telling you that you're missing out with whatever M-rated game you refuse to play because of language. His opinions and preferences for games is every bit as valid for him as yours is for you.

[Guitar-Hero]

I love the fact that you seem to want Mass Effect to be CoD for teens, i respect your opinion but also subtly mock it.

[FKA_Servo]

Have not yet played PS:T either, though I have it in my GOG files. And I mean that I am not missing anything out by skipping games like Fallout, whether or not they are the media's or majorities choice.

 

Curiosity has gotten the best of me.

 

What's the point in censoring the media you consume like this? You're an adult. You're not in any danger of it influencing you in any way, considering how secure in your mindset you are. I presume you're not playing these games around young children, although that's something that can obviously be rectified easily enough.

 

Why pass on things you will most likely otherwise enjoy for some trivial reasons? For example, why pass on Bull and Blackwall? They're both fun characters to get to know. The number of f-bombs they drop between them are probably less than 5. When you romanced Cassandra, what did you do about the love scene? Why is it that you are unwilling to even suffer a single instance of salty language or relatively mild nudity or adult content?

 

It would be one thing if things were graphic or gratuitous - I would find spectacle for spectacle's sake tiring as well. But none of the content in any of the Bioware games is either graphic or gratuitous.

[Akrabra]

I can't quite relate to people beeing offended or having a problem with curse words. I do understand the need to not use them, after all i work with teaching children and i would never utter those type of words infront of them. But curse words are a part of our culture and history, and it is based on something and used for something. Whether the words are nice or not they are still part of our vocabulary, i can't imagine anyone turning away potentially great art because of a few words that actually adds to the depth of a culture and to that extent immersion.