836 réponses à ce sujet

[Navasha]

Don't usually care about ratings, but just as a test, I decided to look up what I consider to be the best games of all time.    Guess what?   They are all rated M.  

 

Dragon Age Series

Xcom: Enemy Unknown

Witcher series

Fallout series

etc. 

 

Sure there are a couple in there like Civilization series, but then, that is not even really a comparable genre to a Mass Effect game. 

 

I think that pretty much answers the question for me.   No, they should not limit themselves by targeting the game toward what a bunch of bureaucrats believe is 'acceptable' content for the teen-age mind. 

[Elhanan]

I wasn't necessarily saying that you are missing out on anything. As much as I enjoy the Fallout series, from this thread and the Open Letter thread, I can certainly see you would find no enjoyment there.
 
My point was that you espousing the virtues of T-rated games to Exaltation is no more valid than someone telling you that you're missing out with whatever M-rated game you refuse to play because of language. His opinions and preferences for games is every bit as valid for him as yours is for you.

Then I am misunderstood. I am missing nothing, but am fully aware that many such titles garnish praise in the gaming world; choose not to be one of them. GoT, the Sopranos, the FO series, TW series, etc all seem to be acclaimed by those that do not mind such content, but do not find them as alluring personally; skip them all.

In those cases where such content is extent, having methods to avoid such content is helpful; even sought beforehand. This is why I eventually chose to play ME3 after a lengthy wait. And with DAI, I was able to quickly discern ways to avoid such content in this new title. However, this is a factor in why I still prefer DAO, as it was more restrained to my own choice of standards.

[Elhanan]

I can't quite relate to people beeing offended or having a problem with curse words. I do understand the need to not use them, after all i work with teaching children and i would never utter those type of words infront of them. But curse words are a part of our culture and history, and it is based on something and used for something. Whether the words are nice or not they are still part of our vocabulary, i can't imagine anyone turning away potentially great art because of a few words that actually adds to the depth of a culture and to that extent immersion.

Much of the purpose of obscenity is to offend, thus why many still avoid usage around children. And I prefer phraseology in context like 'the King's Wiper', 'a quad', and 'Shave my back, and call me an Elf' to something out of our own environs.

[Former_Fiend]

Then I am misunderstood. I am missing nothing, but am fully aware that many such titles garnish praise in the gaming world; choose not to be one of them. GoT, the Sopranos, the FO series, TW series, etc all seem to be acclaimed by those that do not mind such content, but do not find them as alluring personally; skip them all.

In those cases where such content is extent, having methods to avoid such content is helpful; even sought beforehand. This is why I eventually chose to play ME3 after a lengthy wait. And with DAI, I was able to quickly discern ways to avoid such content in this new title. However, this is a factor in why I still prefer DAO, as it was more restrained to my own choice of standards.

 

While I do fully support your right to watch or not watch whatever you want - one of my primary beliefs on the subject when it comes to people complaining about content in games, tv, and movies is to say "If you don't like it don't play/watch it", I do find myself sharing TommyServo's curiosity as to why this content is so objectionable for you.

 

What about nudity and crass language offends you so much that you go to such lengths to avoid it? Is it a cultural or religious issue you have, or just a personal eccentricity? 

[Elhanan]

Don't usually care about ratings, but just as a test, I decided to look up what I consider to be the best games of all time.    Guess what?   They are all rated M.  
 
Dragon Age Series
Xcom: Enemy Unknown
Witcher series
Fallout series
etc. 
 
Sure there are a couple in there like Civilization series, but then, that is not even really a comparable genre to a Mass Effect game. 
 
I think that pretty much answers the question for me.   No, they should not limit themselves by targeting the game toward what a bunch of bureaucrats believe is 'acceptable' content for the teen-age mind.

And while I am a fan of the DA series and XCOM, have skipped the other cRPG's, and prefer NWN to them all; a Teen rated title. Good gaming to us both!

[Elhanan]

While I do fully support your right to watch or not watch whatever you want - one of my primary beliefs on the subject when it comes to people complaining about content in games, tv, and movies is to say "If you don't like it don't play/watch it", I do find myself sharing TommyServo's curiosity as to why this content is so objectionable for you.
 
What about nudity and crass language offends you so much that you go to such lengths to avoid it? Is it a cultural or religious issue you have, or just a personal eccentricity?

Pls check my profile; may help in your comprehension.

[Former_Fiend]

Much of the purpose of obscenity is to offend, thus why many still avoid usage around children. And I prefer phraseology in context like 'the King's Wiper', 'a quad', and 'Shave my back, and call me an Elf' to something out of our own environs.

 

I do take some exception to this argument, however.

 

Firstly, as I explained in the other thread, swearing done solely for the purpose to offend represents only one part of why we swear. There are five types of swearing by purpose. Abusive swearing - that is, swearing with the intent to offend someone and hurt their feelings - is only a fraction of the picture. On the other end of the spectrum is idomatic swearing, which has the opposite purpose; it's swearing to demonstrate closeness, comfort, and a lack of formality. Swearing to represent friendship.

 

 

Secondly, a two of the examples you give exist only to appease censors and moral guardians. Many, many curse words, including the f and s words, date back over fifteen hundred years; they were very much in use in the middle ages where fantasy settings such as dragon age are inspired by. The only reason swearing in these settings may seem odd is because for so long these settings have been restricted to children's stories. 

[Dabrikishaw]

I think Elhanan once explained that his experiences in the military are the reasons he's against hearing swear words in his media. 

[Elhanan]

I do take some exception to this argument, however.
 
Firstly, as I explained in the other thread, swearing done solely for the purpose to offend represents only one part of why we swear. There are five types of swearing by purpose. Abusive swearing - that is, swearing with the intent to offend someone and hurt their feelings - is only a fraction of the picture. On the other end of the spectrum is idomatic swearing, which has the opposite purpose; it's swearing to demonstrate closeness, comfort, and a lack of formality. Swearing to represent friendship.
 
 
Secondly, a two of the examples you give exist only to appease censors and moral guardians. Many, many curse words, including the f and s words, date back over fifteen hundred years; they were very much in use in the middle ages where fantasy settings such as dragon age are inspired by. The only reason swearing in these settings may seem odd is because for so long these settings have been restricted to children's stories.

First, I said much; not all.

Second, these words may date back a time in our history; not Thedas or Thessia. And especially when the lore and language has a precedent without it.

[Elhanan]

I think Elhanan once explained that his experiences in the military are the reasons he's against hearing swear words in his media.

Partially the case. The military, as well as a few other surroundings were illustrations of hearing it more frequently. But other work and social environs were helpful and more pleasing to avoid it. Swearing is generally not helpful for business or social gatherings.

[Former_Fiend]

First, I said much; not all.

Second, these words may date back a time in our history; not Thedas or Thessia. And especially when the lore and language has a precedent without it.

 

About one fifth of swearing is done to offend. I suppose it's debatable whether or not that qualifies as 'much'. The rest is done to express, to emphasis, to relate, and to feel relief from pain.

 

And all words date back to a time in our history. Unless you want Bioware to completely craft new languages and have all characters in their games who aren't earth born humans speak with subtitles, that complaint is entirely invalid.

[Former_Fiend]

Partially the case. The military, as well as a few other surroundings were illustrations of hearing it more frequently. But other work and social environs were helpful and more pleasing to avoid it. Swearing is generally not helpful for business or social gatherings.

 

Your social gatherings, maybe.

[Elhanan]

Your social gatherings, maybe.

In my 25+ yrs in the Hospitality industry, swearing did not get one 'sent up the Meritocracy', so to speak. Nor was it tolerated much from co-workers, guests and clients. Also, this may be of interest to a few:


http://smallbusiness...cmp=sbcfeatures

[Elhanan]

About one fifth of swearing is done to offend. I suppose it's debatable whether or not that qualifies as 'much'. The rest is done to express, to emphasis, to relate, and to feel relief from pain.
 
And all words date back to a time in our history. Unless you want Bioware to completely craft new languages and have all characters in their games who aren't earth born humans speak with subtitles, that complaint is entirely invalid.

Not when set in the DA series, or like this one in ME:A; the purpose of this forum.

[In Exile]

Ehm, no?

It's the twisted, perverted view that somehow killing is fine, while most of us will never kill a person, but sex, somehow, is the bigger evil. While almost everyone of us will end up having sex.




Ceterum censeo omnem religionem delendam esse.

But that's exactly why there's so much of a focus on sex, once you actually accept the moral position that lots of stuff related to sex is bad. Most of us aren't murders or will murder, so our system of punishment for it can be pretty off to the side. But most of us will have sex or want to have sex, so lots of energy has to be dedicated to getting us to do it "right".

[jtav]

It would help if I knew what the lines were. Sometimes it feels like almost anything can get you an M rating. So here's what I want: a story for grown-ups, with nudity that's tasteful rather than titillating. No excessive sexualization. If they deal with mature themes, they need to deal with them and not just have them so they can pat themselves on the back for being edgy. I want to feel comfortable as a female gamer. I do not want to lose my lunch because of the gore level.

I think you absolutely can tell a mature story in a T game. The IE games and KOTOR2 are definitely for adults in terms of themes and subject matter, but I think the rating system was looser then.

[von uber]

Partially the case. The military, as well as a few other surroundings were illustrations of hearing it more frequently. But other work and social environs were helpful and more pleasing to avoid it. Swearing is generally not helpful for business or social gatherings.

 

Are you actually Ned Flanders?

[Elhanan]

Are you actually Ned Flanders?

Had to search for that ref, as I skip The Simpson's, too. Just another gamer, but one with varied choices than others, so like everyone else.

[FKA_Servo]

Not when set in the DA series, or like this one in ME:A; the purpose of this forum.

But Mass Effect is full of humans, with human vocabularies, and informed by human history and sociology. It's not out of place at all to find a human with a dirty mouth in Mass Effect.

Had to search for that ref, as I skip The Simpson's, too. Just another gamer, but one with varied choices than others, so like everyone else.

I'm sorry to hear that. Your delicate sensibilities made you miss out on what was one of the sharpest satires on TV.

[Elhanan]

But Mass Effect is full of humans, with human vocabularies, and informed by human history and sociology. It's not out of place at all to find a human with a dirty mouth in Mass Effect.

I'm sorry to hear that. Your delicate sensibilities made you miss out on what was one of the sharpest satires on TV.

In context; perhaps. But James Vega is not a worthy example (cursing a superior is a not a career builder, nor is attempting to kill the entire squad), so he stays benched. Much prefer the ME3 version of Jack over ME2. She strives to be more professional, as is confirmed by Kahlee Sanders; also makes a decent example of my point using profanity, too.

Do not miss the opportunity at all.

[Il Divo]

But that's exactly why there's so much of a focus on sex, once you actually accept the moral position that lots of stuff related to sex is bad. Most of us aren't murders or will murder, so our system of punishment for it can be pretty off to the side. But most of us will have sex or want to have sex, so lots of energy has to be dedicated to getting us to do it "right".

 

Still, I feel like "doing it right" in some circles translates into "not doing it". I'm not big on the Bioware romances, but I can't see how for example naked Ashley is really a problem from a moral stand point. 

[von uber]

For some reason, Elhanan, you made me think of this:

 

[Elhanan]

And I am reminded this site does have an Ignore function; recommended.

[von uber]

And I am reminded this site does have an Ignore function; recommended.

 

Blimey, you are a sensitive soul.

[DaemionMoadrin]

For some reason, Elhanan, you made me think of this:

 

*snip*

 

I'm not surprised. Elhanan identifies himself as biblical scholar after all.

 

And I am reminded this site does have an Ignore function; recommended.

 

And yet you never use it, despite mentioning it all the time. You told me you put me on ignore three times already and you still read and respond to my posts.

 

Blimey, you are a sensitive soul.

 

High chance he also reported you for ... something. For a while he went through the DA:I forum and reported everyone using profane language.