836 réponses à ce sujet

[themikefest]

In context; perhaps. But James Vega is not a worthy example (cursing a superior is a not a career builder, nor is attempting to kill the entire squad), so he stays benched. Much prefer the ME3 version of Jack over ME2. She strives to be more professional, as is confirmed by Kahlee Sanders; also makes a decent example of my point using profanity, too.

If you're going to talk about Vega swearing at a superior, I would blame Shepard for letting it happen since that exchange of punches would never of happened if Shepard reminded Vega that he/she is his superior when he says can you dance and talk.

[Elhanan]

I'm not surprised. Elhanan identifies himself as biblical scholar after all. 
 
And yet you never use it, despite mentioning it all the time. You told me you put me on ignore three times already and you still read and respond to my posts. 
 
High chance he also reported you for ... something. For a while he went through the DA:I forum and reported everyone using profane language.

I do have a B.A. in Bible, though I refrain from speaking of it on the forums much.

One may use Ignore, and still open and read the text. Options are generally a good thing.

I still report profanity used on the forums, as directed by the Site Rules. However, I do nor recall reporting anything about this poster; simply placed them on Ignore with others.

[Elhanan]

If you're going to talk about Vega swearing at a superior, I would blame Shepard for letting it happen since that exchange of punches would never of happened if Shepard reminded Vega that he/she is his superior when he says can you dance and talk.

Maybe, but my interaction in the military was more relaxed than some since we were always around high ranking Officers. However, while we could interact with superiors in a friendly way, there is no way we would have cursed at them and avoided discipline.

In game, I generally offer to be friendly towards the crew, but refuse to allow Vega to use nicknames for Shepard. In some sessions, have been harder on him, but generally only allow him to go on Reaper missions, if then.

[themikefest]

Maybe, but my interaction in the military was more relaxed than some since we were always around high ranking Officers. However, while we could interact with superiors in a friendly way, there is no way we would have cursed at them and avoided discipline.

There's no maybe at all. You should know that being in the military. No officer would condone to fighting with a fellow officer especially one who is of a lower rank. That was very unprofessional of Shepard. She/he should've told Vega to quit while he's ahead and go back to doing his duties.

[Elhanan]

There's no maybe at all. You should know that being in the military. No officer would condone to fighting with a fellow officer especially one who is of a lower rank. That was very unprofessional of Shepard. She/he should've told Vega to quit while he's ahead and go back to doing his duties.

Not fighting; sparring, or at least in my opinion. Vega was going from one form of exercise to another, and Shepard was invited to assist. When the infraction presents itself, I choose to allow N-7 training to help end the discussion.

Yes; fighting is not tolerated, but using open hand slaps seems to indicate something else, IMO.

[In Exile]

Still, I feel like "doing it right" in some circles translates into "not doing it". I'm not big on the Bioware romances, but I can't see how for example naked Ashley is really a problem from a moral stand point.

I agree. I just meant to illustrate the idea rather than endorse it.

[Former_Fiend]

There's no maybe at all. You should know that being in the military. No officer would condone to fighting with a fellow officer especially one who is of a lower rank. That was very unprofessional of Shepard. She/he should've told Vega to quit while he's ahead and go back to doing his duties.

 

Out of genuine curiosity, how do officers keep up with their hand-to-hand training if they can't spar with those of lower rank?

[DaemionMoadrin]

Out of genuine curiosity, how do officers keep up with their hand-to-hand training if they can't spar with those of lower rank?

 

Of course you can spar with those of lower rank, even with NCOs ... but that's an entirely different situation. For starters, you don't spar without protective gear and equipment. You don't decide that your duty can wait so you can have some fun either. You also don't start by being disrespectful to your superior officer.

[shodiswe]

Who runs this ESRB thing anyway? some kind of Church or religious cult? It seems to run hand in hand with those special kids with religious parrents who bring letters to school that they shouldn't participate certain parts of normal education.

[Former_Fiend]

Of course you can spar with those of lower rank, even with NCOs ... but that's an entirely different situation. For starters, you don't spar without protective gear and equipment. You don't decide that your duty can wait so you can have some fun either. You also don't start by being disrespectful to your superior officer.

 

Well, was always clear to me the "fight" with Vega was just an impromptu "friendly" sparring match that Vega got a little too worked up during due to his issues.

 

Bioware could have felt that the flow of the scene might have been broken by a fade to black, get the training gear on cut, especially with the framing of it being Vega saying, "I'm kind of in the middle of a work out right now; if you want to talk, join in."

 

As for the duty thing, I've always assumed that when Shepard's just walking around and chatting with the crew - which is what this is - it's part of their off-duty hours after mission reports have been filed and whatever else they had to get done.

[Elhanan]

Who runs this ESRB thing anyway? some kind of Church or religious cult? It seems to run hand in hand with those special kids with religious parrents who bring letters to school that they shouldn't participate certain parts of normal education.

From the ESRB site:

"The ESRB rating system was devised in 1994 after consulting a wide range of child development and academic experts, analyzing other rating systems and conducting nationwide research with parents. ESRB found that what parents really want from a rating system is both age-based categories and, equally if not more importantly, concise and impartial information regarding content. Parents felt strongly that a rating system should inform and suggest, not prohibit, and should reflect the product overall rather than quantifying every instance of potentially objectionable content.

Today game consumers play games on a variety of platforms and devices, and parental concerns go well beyond content to include other elements like user interactions or the sharing of a user's location and personal information. In fact, parents today tend to place equal importance on upfront guidance about interactive elements as they do the actual content in a game...."

[Former_Fiend]

Switching gears back to nudity for a moment, and copy/pasting what I put in the other thread, a thought occurs to me. 

 

I wonder if, for those here who don't want nudity included in the games and don't like romance scenes that feature nudity, if the problem isn't a lack of immersion. If you don't feel like one of the characters in the scene and instead feel like a voyeuristic observer, and that is part of what makes you uncomfortable. Or, perhaps the awareness that millions of others are playing these games and seeing the same scene, just on that basic knowledge, takes you out of it and it becomes less personal.

 

I mean, presumably everyone here is alright with the idea that our character and their love interest see each other naked, whether that happens on camera or off. I know there are some who would like a "wait until marriage" option but aside from that the only real complaint here is that once the sex is over and the camera fades back in, the characters haven't hurriedly rushed back into their clothing.

 

So, am I near the mark here? Is the problem with it that you just feel like a third party to these scenes?

[Fast Jimmy]

It's a discussion worth having, actually.

Can Mass Effect survive without the things that earn it an M-rating currently, since there seems to be a demand for it?

No. Once romance addicts see boobs and butt in a Bioware game, they'll never go back.

[Fast Jimmy]

Switching gears back to nudity for a moment, and copy/pasting what I put in the other thread, a thought occurs to me.

I wonder if, for those here who don't want nudity included in the games and don't like romance scenes that feature nudity, if the problem isn't a lack of immersion. If you don't feel like one of the characters in the scene and instead feel like a voyeuristic observer, and that is part of what makes you uncomfortable. Or, perhaps the awareness that millions of others are playing these games and seeing the same scene, just on that basic knowledge, takes you out of it and it becomes less personal.

I mean, presumably everyone here is alright with the idea that our character and their love interest see each other naked, whether that happens on camera or off. I know there are some who would like a "wait until marriage" option but aside from that the only real complaint here is that once the sex is over and the camera fades back in, the characters haven't hurriedly rushed back into their clothing.

So, am I near the mark here? Is the problem with it that you just feel like a third party to these scenes?

I think it is the exact opposite - video games allow for a different level of immersion than passive mediums like movies or books. There, you observe two characters interact and its fine to watch that happen for most people.

For video games, you often become your character, or you are roleplaying that character and in their head. And, in a sense, Bioware is putting you into a situation where you are simulating a romance with a fictional, virtual character that culminates in sex with said virtual, fictional character.

In that sense, Bioware has created a piece of fiction for you to have sex with. That's really kind of creepy when you think about it.

[Former_Fiend]

I think it is the exact opposite - video games allow for a different level of immersion than passive mediums like movies or books. There, you observe two characters interact and its fine to watch that happen for most people.

For video games, you often become your character, or you are roleplaying that character and in their head. And, in a sense, Bioware is putting you into a situation where you are simulating a romance with a fictional, virtual character that culminates in sex with said virtual, fictional character.

In that sense, Bioware has created a piece of fiction for you to have sex with. That's really kind of creepy when you think about it.

 

I do generally agree with the idea that video games are the more immersive medium, but I find what I'm able to become immersed in and what others are able to be immersed in aren't always the same thing; several pages ago Elhanan mentioned Aria dropping f-bombs broke his immersion but it didn't harm mine at all, for example.

 

And I can see where your coming from and how the problem may be at the opposite extreme I posited. 

[FKA_Servo]

No. Once romance addicts see boobs and butt in a Bioware game, they'll never go back.

 

This is probably true.

[Gramorla]

The age rating contains in many countries not only shown nudity and violenc.

A huge theme is also the handling of serious story content like genozide, violence against childrens, dead childrens, morally difficult situations with no true good side .... This things don't habe to shown to rate a medium high. It's enough that its in some way contain in the told story.

 

When Bioware try to told a serious SiFi setting with complicated and adult storyline, there must be careful to don't restrict themself by setting a T rating.

[Sartoz]

 

Switching gears back to nudity for a moment, and copy/pasting what I put in the other thread, a thought occurs to me. 

 

I wonder if, for those here who don't want nudity included in the games and don't like romance scenes that feature nudity, if the problem isn't a lack of immersion. If you don't feel like one of the characters in the scene and instead feel like a voyeuristic observer, and that is part of what makes you uncomfortable. Or, perhaps the awareness that millions of others are playing these games and seeing the same scene, just on that basic knowledge, takes you out of it and it becomes less personal.

 

I mean, presumably everyone here is alright with the idea that our character and their love interest see each other naked, whether that happens on camera or off. I know there are some who would like a "wait until marriage" option but aside from that the only real complaint here is that once the sex is over and the camera fades back in, the characters haven't hurriedly rushed back into their clothing.

 

So, am I near the mark here? Is the problem with it that you just feel like a third party to these scenes?

 

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Personally, I see no problem with nudity. Also, romance without the brief nudity doesn't really work... Josephine in DAI, comes to mind.... yes, yes, some love it!  I see it as the exception, rather than the rule. And, no, I don't believe it's because there is a lack of immersion, for the complaint(s).

 

For one, it's a mature rated game and two those that are offended ought to be aware of that and furthermore, the game does warn about it's mature content.  Thus I find it rather amusing that complaints are put forward in an attempt to impose their beliefs on mature game content to the BSN users.  It's like these "decent folks" deliberately go to a strip club and demand that management tell the stripper to keep her clothes on while doing a lap dance.... to keep them safe.

 

Path of Exile is a good online and free MMO. Lots and lots of zombie and monster killings... lots of comic like violence... no nudity, no romance and I like it. It's designed without the romance feature and you accept that fact with no moaning or groaning and certainly no one writes to the PoE forums about the lack of nakedness. Not so, the other way around, for some reason.

 

Bio's games tell us a story. How we pursue that story is up to the individual. Yet, easily offended people want to dictate which path I should take or demand that characters in the game be neutered... a personality change, if you wish.  They want to go to heathen dancing clubs but also want to remain uncorrupted.

 

All very strange.

[Pasquale1234]

No. Once romance addicts see boobs and butt in a Bioware game, they'll never go back.

I don't know about that. Romance is about the whole relationship, not just the sex.

[Elhanan]

Also reminded me of why my male Shepard did not choose to have a romance with Ashley until ME3, as she was directly under his command. This was an immersion choice, though one that could have gone another way by simply ignoring the general rules of military conduct, like what occurs in RL. I chose her romance arc once further along in in ME3, but both Kaiden and Ash are emotional PTSD victims by then; romantic interaction is rather unappealing, IMO.

Still prefer Romance to virtual sex; Scout Harding and Aveline > any random virtual romp experienced thus far.

[Fast Jimmy]

I don't know about that. Romance is about the whole relationship, not just the sex.

Bioware romances are, by and large, "culminated" in the sex scene. It is often seen as the end of the romance towards the end of the game, or at least followed only by the afterglow "will we survive? What will we do?" type of conversations. It is portrayed as the "end" of the romance arc. That has heavy connotations about the nature of sex within Bioware romances.

[Nohvarr]

Bioware romances are, by and large, "culminated" in the sex scene. It is often seen as the end of the romance towards the end of the game, or at least followed only by the afterglow "will we survive? What will we do?" type of conversations. It is portrayed as the "end" of the romance arc. That has heavy connotations about the nature of sex within Bioware romances.

Josephine didn't go that route, and honestly it was refreshing to see.

[Pasquale1234]

Bioware romances are, by and large, "culminated" in the sex scene. It is often seen as the end of the romance towards the end of the game, or at least followed only by the afterglow "will we survive? What will we do?" type of conversations. It is portrayed as the "end" of the romance arc. That has heavy connotations about the nature of sex within Bioware romances.

Sure, but those sex scenes have frequently been fade-to-black or some other form of not entirely nude.

[Fast Jimmy]

Sure, but those sex scenes have frequently been fade-to-black or some other form of not entirely nude.

...until DA:I, which had topless and bottomless scenes. Like I said - now that romance fanatics have gotten a taste of nudity, there's no going back.

[Elhanan]

...until DA:I, which had topless and bottomless scenes. Like I said - now that romance fanatics have gotten a taste of nudity, there's no going back.

Fanatics perhaps, but romance may not have anything to do with it....