836 réponses à ce sujet

[Natureguy85]

USA, or rather the big industrial and financial groups want the liberalization of all european markets, like power grids, natural ressources, distribution, mail network, telecommunications; infrastructure, health insurance, etc...lots of areas of competence that were or still are public, are progressively being privatized.

 

Interesting. The opposite is happening here in America. The Federal Government is taking over more and more, most notably in health care, or regulating companies into the ground, most notably in energy. It's driving prices for both way up. That's why I questioned why you mentioned the US.

[Vapaa]

Interesting. The opposite is happening here in America. The Federal Government is taking over more and more, most notably in health care, or regulating companies into the ground, most notably in energy. It's driving prices for both way up. That's why I questioned why you mentioned the US.

 

I mentioned the US because the US administration is deeply implicated in EU matters...well also in the rest of the world, but  what they're doing in Europe is actually quite the novelty.

 

In Europe, rampant privatization only make things bad and more expensive.

[Natureguy85]

Interesting. I'll pm  you so we don't derail.

[N7M]

Not at all. It's simply calling a spade a spade. Virtually every person on here wants to think that their requests are unique or are important enough to merit investigating. Me, I absolutely despise romances, but I'm under no illusions that I'm going to be convincing Bioware to remove them simply because I could find a couple people in a thread to support my cause.

Some basic facts: David Gaider himself has commented on how these forums represent less than 1% of the fan base. Far as I recall, were you even able to get 30+ supporters in the last toggle thread? I recall maybe 10 people repeating the same desires in a thread of over 130 pages. Even if so, that's a minority of a minority even in this forum context.

Add on top of that, you had a Bioware developer popping in commenting in that very thread you referenced on how he doesn't think there is virtually any reason to implement this feature based on the support shown in the toggle thread. He saw your support and thought it was not indicative of anything.

In this forum environment, 30 posters (being generous here) is virtually nothing. It took the ME3 movement over 100,000 players signing a poll on the internet while mobilizing charity donations, amongst other things, to convince Bioware to add maybe 15 minutes of cut-scenes. While a toggle may be cheaper, if Bioware followed every request with minimal support, I can't say the end result would be positive, given the size of the fan base. This is what's led to the mistaken impression amongst some toggle fans that we need to "compromise" so everyone can be happy. If you're not interested in T-related content, from a game theory perspective, you have absolutely no reason to pursue a compromise.

After taking a look for your claimed dev post that a dev thought the toggle request in the explicit content thread "was not indicative of anything" and found there seemed to be no existence of this post. Perhaps, it was missed. Since you know of this post could you find it?

"If you're not interested in T-related content, from a game theory perspective, you have absolutely no reason to pursue a compromise."

And no reason to engage on the topic.

[Il Divo]

After taking a look for your claimed dev post that a dev thought the toggle request in the explicit content thread "was not indicative of anything" and found there seemed to be no existence of this post. Perhaps, it was missed. Since you know of this post could you find it?

"If you're not interested in T-related content, from a game theory perspective, you have absolutely no reason to pursue a compromise."

And no reason to engage on the topic.

 

p. 78 of the "an open letter to Bioware Regarding Explicit Content", Bryan Johnson:

 

"I May be the only one to respond, does not mean I am the only one who has read.

 

There is a lot of people that work here and lurk, we discuss things that happen on the forum or other medium all the time.

 

Also as was indicated by Helios you are not going to go to the polls for every little thing. If I had to guess someone in our focus tests would have brought this up as something they wanted if there was a significant portion of the audience that actually wanted it.

 

Will we fund a poll/survey explicitly for this? I see that as very unlikely. I believe the onus is on you to prove there is a market for it.

 

 

Note, by far that is not the only time he expresses this view point, this is simply the first one I found. Intermittently, he goes into this quite a bit regarding the cost/lack of market.

 

Regarding the latter bit: then what you're asking for would be more similar to an echo chamber. Granted, there've been some pretty unfair comments made about the request, but forums are not really designed for closed off comments in isolation. If somebody says "I want X", saying "I don't want X" is a pretty fair counter.
 

[The Hierophant]

^Agreed. If the hypothetical change in rating has the potential to negatively impact my enjoyment of the game then i'll continue to voice my disproval of said change.

[Natureguy85]

p. 78 of the "an open letter to Bioware Regarding Explicity Content", Bryan Johnson:

 

 

Also note the line about "not going to go to the polls for every little thing." While there is something to be said for giving fans what they want, and as much as I criticize their pompous "artistic vision" statements about ME3, I do want them to have a plan when they design a game and not to ask the audience about every design decision.

[KevTheGamer]

I don't get why the original trilogy wasn't rated T already. What because of some ass and side boob? They claimed nudity but it was really tame might as well make the ip rated T and call it a day. 

[Elhanan]

I don't get why the original trilogy wasn't rated T already. What because of some ass and side boob? They claimed nudity but it was really tame might as well make the ip rated T and call it a day.

Language certainly plays a part in the last couple of titles.

[Natureguy85]

I don't get why the original trilogy wasn't rated T already. What because of some ass and side boob? They claimed nudity but it was really tame might as well make the ip rated T and call it a day. 

Language certainly plays a part in the last couple of titles.

 

On that note, I always hated the "Don't F**k with Aria" line in ME2 because the camera zoomed in on her mouth and she emphasized the F-bomb, which screamed "Hey, look how edgy we are. We had a character say 'f**k.'" I hate that crap.

 

Then Aria sits on a couch and does nothing. What a waste of an intro and character.

[Il Divo]

^I still have not touched the Omega dlc. The intro for Aria put me off enough that I'm not sure I will.

[VelvetStraitjacket]

T rating? Ew, no thank you.

[N7M]

p. 78 of the "an open letter to Bioware Regarding Explicit Content", Bryan Johnson:

 

 

Note, by far that is not the only time he expresses this view point, this is simply the first one I found. Intermittently, he goes into this quite a bit regarding the cost/lack of market.

 

Regarding the latter bit: then what you're asking for would be more similar to an echo chamber. Granted, there've been some pretty unfair comments made about the request, but forums are not really designed for closed off comments in isolation. If somebody says "I want X", saying "I don't want X" is a pretty fair counter.
 

 

That quote from Bryan Johnson on page 78 doesn't read the same as "he saw the support and doesn't think it indicative of anything" unless someone wants it to be read that way. The support stood out enough that it warranted being discussed behind the scenes. Although, as indicated, it won't likely lead to anything being implemented but maybe those discussions around the concept of content were enough to prevent the game from becoming more explicit.

 

^Agreed. If the hypothetical change in rating has the potential to negatively impact my enjoyment of the game then i'll continue to voice my disproval of said change.

 

Voicing disapproval once isn't enough? My friend has a pet that barks a lot to get attention when my friend has company over. If outside the dog gets all the neighborhood dogs barking. There have been a few comments that many of the posts in the explicit content thread are repetitive. While the desire for more explicit content is up to the individual and making or supporting a thread to promote that stance is a good thing. Perhaps, continually interrupting the advancement of a discussion one has no interest in is disruptive, misdirected and unnecessary.

[Il Divo]

That quote from Bryan Johnson on page 78 doesn't read the same as "he saw the support and doesn't think it indicative of anything" unless someone wants it to be read that way. The support stood out enough that it warranted being discussed behind the scenes. Although, as indicated, it won't likely lead to anything being implemented but maybe those discussions around the concept of content were enough to prevent the game from becoming more explicit.

 

 

Only if we're going for an extremely obtuse interpretation. The support for this feature is so low that he doesn't think it would be worth any effort to continue exploring. Hence the request to prove that there is a market for this feature. That's a pretty fitting definition of "minimal support", unless you're trying to be intellectually dishonest.

 

But if you genuinely think that a single thread of 10 people or so is enough for Bioware to seriously consider altering their game direction, that's going to require a bit more than misinterpreting their direct statements to support. My interpretation is directly supported by that quote as well as well as quite a few others. Your interpretation is not supported, in this instance. Bioware discussing these ideas easily could refer to them discussing how incompatible they are with their current direction.

 

Voicing disapproval once isn't enough? My friend has a pet that barks a lot to get attention when my friend has company over. If outside the dog gets all the neighborhood dogs barking. There have been a few comments that many of the posts in the explicit content thread are repetitive. While the desire for more explicit content is up to the individual and making or supporting a thread to promote that stance is a good thing. Perhaps, continually interrupting the advancement of a discussion one has no interest in is disruptive, misdirected and unnecessary.

 

 

If we're going to play this card, then that works in reverse too. Voicing approval once is enough and shouldn't justify a 130+ page thread of repetition, especially given the weak nature of many of these suggestions, which ignore many of the hard realities of game development.
 

[The Hierophant]

Voicing disapproval once isn't enough? My friend has a pet that barks a lot to get attention when my friend has company over. If outside the dog gets all the neighborhood dogs barking. There have been a few comments that many of the posts in the explicit content thread are repetitive. While the desire for more explicit content is up to the individual and making or supporting a thread to promote that stance is a good thing. Perhaps, continually interrupting the advancement of a discussion one has no interest in is disruptive, misdirected and unnecessary.

I think you're a little confused. Us putting forth opposing viewpoints is predicated by the thread's premise...

 

 

 

 

Nudity, sex, profanity, and excessive violence seem to be sore spots with a segment of this fanbase for a number of different reasons. What better way to restrain these things, and open up new revenue opportunities, than to aim for a T rating as a benchmark for any and all content? BioWare's already gone back in that direction with Star Wars: The Old Republic, after all.

 

Would you be bothered by this? Why or why not? Do the things you enjoy about Mass Effect demand a MATURE rating?

This discussion isn't a hug box for fostering pro censorship discussion, but rather the discussion of differing viewpoints on the subject.

 

If you'd like you can start up a Pro T rating fan thread so that you wouldn't have to continually defend your stance amongst like minded posters

[N7M]

 

 

Only if we're going for an extremely obtuse interpretation. The support for this feature is so low that he doesn't think it would be worth any effort to continue exploring. Hence the request to prove that there is a market for this feature. That's a pretty fitting definition of "minimal support", unless you're trying to be intellectually dishonest.

 

But if you genuinely think that a single thread of 10 people or so is enough for Bioware to seriously consider altering their game direction, that's going to require a bit more than misinterpreting their direct statements to support. My interpretation is directly supported by that quote as well as well as quite a few others. Your interpretation is not supported, in this instance. Bioware discussing these ideas easily could refer to them discussing how incompatible they are with their current direction.

 

 

If we're going to play this card, then that works in reverse too. Voicing approval once is enough and shouldn't justify a 130+ page thread of repetition, especially given the weak nature of many of these suggestions, which ignore many of the hard realities of game development.
 

 

 

I didn't put any meaning on anything Bryan Johnson said. I only pointed to the possibility that BioWare devs discussing the idea of content control may have affected things through raised awareness.

 

Today's N7 video makes me hopeful that the new game will be an amazing journey that explorers of all ages can enjoy. Maybe those who have had concerns about content need not have worried at all and that the toggles would be completely unnecessary.

[Ryuzetsu]

No..just,no.

[NUM13ER]

Ideally the creators should only focus on the story/themes they want to showcase and then let the ratings board quibble over the rating. Mass Effect was only rated a "12 and up" in Ireland and the UK with the sequel being an 18 or over. No-one seemed to notice or care.

Besides when it comes to games, having a higher rating just isn't as big a deal as it would be with movies. In fact for many games it's arguably a strong selling point.

[Il Divo]

I didn't put any meaning on anything Bryan Johnson said. I only pointed to the possibility that BioWare devs discussing the idea of content control may have affected things through raised awareness.

 

Today's N7 video makes me hopeful that the new game will be an amazing journey that explorers of all ages can enjoy. Maybe those who have had concerns about content need not have worried at all and that the toggles would be completely unnecessary.

 

It's possible, definitely. But that's not necessarily the same as probable, in this context. While Bryan was more than polite, keep in mind most of his comments in that thread were made in the context of either "this is will be too expensive" or "we currently don't see enough support for this feature". For that interpretation to work, I think his comments would have been directed less towards why these suggestions are difficult to implement and more towards describing how they've gone about reconciling those perspectives.

 

I personally haven't seen today's N7 video (didn't actually know there was one). I'll have to check it out and see the latest news.

[Hudathan]

It doesn't have to be M rated to be a good game, but it would be more detailed.

[wolfhowwl]

The language in Mass Effect was very, very, very mild for people serving in the military.

[Elhanan]

The language in Mass Effect was very, very, very mild for people serving in the military.

Yes and No, at least from my experience. During private banter between comrades in the barracks, the language overheard could be quite offensive. But I cannot recollect a time during my service where a lower ranked soldier used such language to a superior, as is the case in ME2 and ME3. Contextually, it seems incorrect to me, and excessive.

Also disliked watching Shepard saluting a broadcasted image all the time, too. Once nearing the end could possibly be more impactful, IMO. But that is for another thread.

[Lady Artifice]

Voicing disapproval once isn't enough? My friend has a pet that barks a lot to get attention when my friend has company over. If outside the dog gets all the neighborhood dogs barking. There have been a few comments that many of the posts in the explicit content thread are repetitive. While the desire for more explicit content is up to the individual and making or supporting a thread to promote that stance is a good thing. Perhaps, continually interrupting the advancement of a discussion one has no interest in is disruptive, misdirected and unnecessary.

 

What makes your opinion more worthy of being repeated than someone else's?

[wolfsite]

The latest European Trailers have it listed as PEGI 18

 

PEGI 18
The adult classification is applied when the level of violence reaches a stage where it becomes a depiction of gross violence and/or includes elements of specific types of violence. Gross violence is the most difficult to define since it can be very subjective in many cases, but in general terms it can be classed as the depictions of violence that would make the viewer feel a sense of revulsion

 

 

[Savber100]

Why is this even a hard question? 

If the game wants to delve in to mature topics for a mature audience...

Then no. Let the game be rated M

If the game simply want to solely delight in the glories of exploration and growth while avoiding difficult subjects...

 

Then yes. Let the game be rated T. 

The developers should just make a product they want to make. I don't care what it's rated as long as the vision of the developers are not limited or forced by the rating.