Their rated T games like Baldur's Gate and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic disagree with you.
On this note I'd like to say that I am not opposed to the very idea of Bioware making another T-rated game. I just don't want them to take either of their M-rated properties and go in a T-rated direction with them.
If their new, top secret IP is T-rated, I'm fine with that. I just don't want to see Mass Effect or Dragon Age go down that road.
... Why would they? Teens are already buying this game, so...
On this note I'd like to say that I am not opposed to the very idea of Bioware making another T-rated game. I just don't want them to take either of their M-rated properties and go in a T-rated direction with them.
If their new, top secret IP is T-rated, I'm fine with that. I just don't want to see Mass Effect or Dragon Age go down that road.
I think what a lot of people miss is that the gaming climate isn't the same as it was 5-10 years ago. Even some of the ratings boards have changed. Games that could get away with a 'T' rating even just a few years ago wouldn't be able to today. We've seen this with the latest Arkham game. No swearing, no gore, no sexual content, yet it received an 'adult only' rating. Despite it being no darker than it's prequels.
With that in mind I don't think it's enough for people to say "Well BioWare have made 'T' rated games before and it was fine." First you need to ask yourself "would those games still be 'T' rated if they were released today?
on contrary I would like mass Effect Andromeda rated R or X -> for adults only. Kids may play Sims but ME should be for mature players. Game with so much violence is and should be for adults. Anyway, if it is shooter, one actually shoot ppl, it is for adult. I can not imagine head shot with T rating.
But if it is rated M,R,X whatever it should be really for adults. Dark, lot of mature decisions, violence, swearing and gore and of course sexual content that should not be as mild as in previous ME games but more explicit.
I think what a lot of people miss is that the gaming climate isn't the same as it was 5-10 years ago. Even some of the ratings boards have changed. Games that could get away with a 'T' rating even just a few years ago wouldn't be able to today. We've seen this with the latest Arkham game. No swearing, no gore, no sexual content, yet it received an 'adult only' rating. Despite it being no darker than it's prequels.
With that in mind I don't think it's enough for people to say "Well BioWare have made 'T' rated games before and it was fine." First you need to ask yourself "would those games still be 'T' rated if they were released today?
Batman Arkham Knight has an M rating. I found one article from a UK sight that says "Adults Only" in its headline, but the article itself still says "Mature."
On this note I'd like to say that I am not opposed to the very idea of Bioware making another T-rated game. I just don't want them to take either of their M-rated properties and go in a T-rated direction with them.
If their new, top secret IP is T-rated, I'm fine with that. I just don't want to see Mass Effect or Dragon Age go down that road.
Why? If Bioware has proven that their strengths wouldn't go down with a T rating, then what about ME or DA is objectively so important that they should keep it M?
I think what a lot of people miss is that the gaming climate isn't the same as it was 5-10 years ago. Even some of the ratings boards have changed. Games that could get away with a 'T' rating even just a few years ago wouldn't be able to today. We've seen this with the latest Arkham game. No swearing, no gore, no sexual content, yet it received an 'adult only' rating. Despite it being no darker than it's prequels.
With that in mind I don't think it's enough for people to say "Well BioWare have made 'T' rated games before and it was fine." First you need to ask yourself "would those games still be 'T' rated if they were released today?
I think its going the opposite direction. There are franchises whose games have been rated M in the past are now being rated T despite nothing in the games changing, like for example the Halo franchise having Halo 5: Guardians be rated T when it hadn't been toned down at all from previous Halo games which were rated M.
So yes, I think those games would still be rated T today quite easily.
Why? If Bioware has proven that their strengths wouldn't go down with a T rating, then what about ME or DA is objectively so important that they should keep it M?
I don't think objectivity has to enter into it. But if you're looking for a concrete reason, like anything else, characters like Jack would be much more limited in scope. For people who enjoyed (for example) the post ME1-romance scene with Ashley, that would also likely have to go.
It's true that Halo 5 was able to escape with a Teen rating. But that will not apply universally to all games. We'd need a comparison of what content Halo 5 changed relative to previous installments.
What it comes down to: starting from an M rating means that the writers can design the game with fewer restrictions in terms of content. If the game (conveniently) lands a T rating, that's great. But starting from the point of a T rating means greater restrictions in mind.
Correct me if I'm wrong too, but I believe the ESRB can also award an "M" rating for aspects like gore/disturbing images, which could limit things like the DA:O brood mother encounter, which has been highly praised in the past. Or the Grey Warden murder/blood rituals of DA:I. That kind of stuff, which should probably be earning an M rating anyway.
Batman Arkham Knight has an M rating. I found one article from a UK sight that says "Adults Only" in its headline, but the article itself still says "Mature."
Under PEGI there's no real direct equivalent to the ESRB 'AO' rating... if a UK site says a game is for "Adults Only" that doesn't have the same connotations as the 'AO' rating even it if it's kinda the same thing, it just means it's got an 18 rating. There's no special PEGI rating for gambling/porn games which is pretty much what 'AO' equates to... so Strip Poker Prostitutes 7 (no, I don't know whether that exists) would have the same rating as Mass Effect 3.
I think its going the opposite direction. There are franchises whose games have been rated M in the past are now being rated T despite nothing in the games changing, like for example the Halo franchise having Halo 5: Guardians be rated T when it hadn't been toned down at all from previous Halo games which were rated M.
So yes, I think those games would still be rated T today quite easily.
Not in the UK it's not - since the BBFC was replaced with the pan-European rating system (PEGI), age ratings have gone up for the same content.
Mass Effect 1: BBFC 12 -> PEGI 18
Mass Effect 2: BBFC 15 -> PEGI 18
Mass Effect 3: BBFC 15 -> PEGI 18
Batman Arkham Knight has an M rating. I found one article from a UK sight that says "Adults Only" in its headline, but the article itself still says "Mature."
There's no real distinction in the UK. There's no alternative to 'AO' here. A PEGI 18 rating is as close to an 'Adult Only' rating that we've got.
The Terminator, Alien, Aliens, Braveheart, Saving Private Ryan, and many more are are all overwhelmingly critically acclaimed movies rated R. There's an audience for both hardcore gritty scifi and family-friendly environments. Mass Effect fits into the former. The Misadventures of Tron Bonne (look it up) fits into the latter. Both are good games. What's wrong with that?
Why? If Bioware has proven that their strengths wouldn't go down with a T rating, then what about ME or DA is objectively so important that they should keep it M?
I think its going the opposite direction. There are franchises whose games have been rated M in the past are now being rated T despite nothing in the games changing, like for example the Halo franchise having Halo 5: Guardians be rated T when it hadn't been toned down at all from previous Halo games which were rated M.
So yes, I think those games would still be rated T today quite easily.
I didn't say I'd play a T-rated game they released. Just that I'm not opposed to one existing.
I don't think objectivity has to enter into it. But if you're looking for a concrete reason, like anything else, characters like Jack would be much more limited in scope. For people who enjoyed (for example) the post ME1-romance scene with Ashley, that would also likely have to go.
So the immature reasons are the reasons people think it should stay M for 'Mature'? How ironic. 
I don't think objectivity has to enter into it. But if you're looking for a concrete reason, like anything else, characters like Jack would be much more limited in scope. For people who enjoyed (for example) the post ME1-romance scene with Ashley, that would also likely have to go.
So the immature reasons are the reasons people think it should stay M for 'Mature'? How ironic.
I'll cop to never having romanced Ashley, so I don't even know what the scene is. But... assuming it's just a bit of conversation/basking in the afterglow, a la Cass' scene in DAI... how is that immature per se? Would you really characterize Cass' scene as immature or prurient? Again, that seems like precisely the most sensible or reasonable place to put something like that.
I'll cop to never having romanced Ashley, so I don't even know what the scene is. But... assuming it's just a bit of conversation/basking in the afterglow, a la Cass' scene in DAI... how is that immature per se? Would you really characterize Cass' scene as immature or prurient? Again, that seems like precisely the most sensible or reasonable place to put something like that.
The post-romance scene with Ashley I don't see why it was used as an example, since it doesn't have anything M-rated in it. All it has is some suggestive dialogue and she is not wearing a shirt but the camera is looking at her back, showing us only her shoulder and upper back, which would result in a T rating. I was speaking in a more general sense, since the reason the poster was saying it should be M is so they still have immature things like language, idiotic blood and gore( as opposed to realistic which would get T), and titillation. As for Cass' scene in DAI, yes I would characterize it as immature and prurient. It had no reason to be in the game as it was other than to show nudity.
immature things like language
What, profanity and swearing? You mean those things that are confined primarily to adult use and consumption in most cultures. Your definition of immature is rather arbitrary and nonsensical. I don't remember very much "language" in my children's cartoons (RIP Ren and Stimpy), for instance, and those are aimed at immature audiences for the most part.
idiotic blood and gore( as opposed to realistic which would get T)
Just no.....
Pray tell, how many gunshot, fragmentation, or high explosives victims have you seen? If anything, ME is very sanitized with its ragdoll effects, as opposed to what actually happens when squishy things are subject to forces measured in the kilo and megajoule range. If you want visual evidence, I can provide it, but you are categorically incorrect here.
and titillation.
You do know human beings (and by extension presumably "alien" cultures based on them) are born without clothes and by and large tend to perform certain cultural and social activities without them, right? good
The post-romance scene with Ashley I don't see why it was used as an example, since it doesn't have anything M-rated in it. All it has is some suggestive dialogue and she is not wearing a shirt but the camera is looking at her back, showing us only her shoulder and upper back, which would result in a T rating. I was speaking in a more general sense, since the reason the poster was saying it should be M is so they still have immature things like language, idiotic blood and gore( as opposed to realistic which would get T), and titillation. As for Cass' scene in DAI, yes I would characterize it as immature and prurient. It had no reason to be in the game as it was other than to show nudity.
This is all a case of extremely personal interpretation. I don't think explicit language is inherently immature, and it can be very useful for conveying a character's personality. As for nudity, whether there's something remotely wrong with doing it for it's own sake is debatable. In the case of Cassandra specifically, I would argue that it added to the sense of openness and intimacy of the scene, which is a big deal for that character. She is a closed person, generally, but she was entirely vulnerable in that moment. It served a purpose.
What, profanity and swearing? You mean those things that are confined primarily to adult use and consumption in most cultures. Your definition of immature is rather arbitrary and nonsensical. I don't remember very much "language" in my children's cartoons (RIP Ren and Stimpy), for instance, and those are aimed at immature audiences for the most part.
Just no.....
You mean the thing that most people in authority positions don't use while addressing others to appear more respectable? If there is no negative connotation on swearing and profanity, then why purposefully avoid using it in those cases?
Just no.....
Pray tell, how many gunshot, fragmentation, or high explosives victims have you seen? If anything, ME is very sanitized with its ragdoll effects, as opposed to what actually happens when squishy things are subject to forces measured in the kilo and megajoule range. If you want visual evidence, I can provide it, but you are categorically incorrect here.
Quite a few. I also know that is a false equivalence since those people weren't equipped with armor and especially shields that were designed specifically to stop that. If they wanted to be realistic, the only thing that would happen if you head shot an enemy would be the inside of their helmet would get messy, not have it and the helmet pop like a water balloon.
You do know human beings (and by extension presumably "alien" cultures based on them) are born without clothes and by and large tend to perform certain cultural and social activities without them, right? good
And if Bioware ever decides to show the miracle of birth in one of their games, I will accept that as an appropriate and mature use of nudity. Other than that, I don't see a scenario where it is needed other than titillation.
The post-romance scene with Ashley I don't see why it was used as an example, since it doesn't have anything M-rated in it. All it has is some suggestive dialogue and she is not wearing a shirt but the camera is looking at her back, showing us only her shoulder and upper back. I was speaking in a more general sense, since the reason the poster was saying it should be M is so they still have immature things like language, idiotic blood and gore( as opposed to realistic which would get T), and titillation. As for Cass' scene in DAI, yes I would characterize it as immature and prurient. It had no reason to be in the game as it was other than to show nudity.
I disagree with so much of this categorically.
Let's start with the language. I disagree with the assertion that cursing is inherently immature. I'm not disputing that it can be immature - it's often immature. But that's in excess, in misuse. Someone trying too hard to sound cool or tough by throwing out a lot of swears isn't the same as a group of friends swearing casually or an expletive used to show genuine emotion.
More over, sometimes the point is to show an immature character who curses too much, or an emotionally stunted character who doesn't have another way of expressing themselves. By removing cursing, you remove avenues and character archetypes.
Secondly, nudity. Hanako, I don't know if it's a product of your upbringing, your religion, some personal trauma, or if it's just the way you are, but - and this is just my opinion - I think you have some very problematic, if not entirely uncommon, views on the human body and on relationships if you think the Cassandra scene is there for nothing other than titillation. Again, I'm not going to sit here and say that nudity isn't, can't, and never is used for titillation, just like I'm not going to sit here and try to argue that the sky is green. But to paint it all with the same brush, making gross generalizations, and labeling something that clearly wasn't titillation as such; I know you're smarter than that.
Thirdly, gore. I won't go into this one much other than to echo Quarian Master Race's statements; I've seen things reduce the human body to smears and paste. What ME neither what ME brings to the table or what a T rated game brings to the table are "realistic".
I'd really prefer to move past the taboos and baggage we place on the things culturally deemed explicit, than continue to build up a facade of decency in avoiding them. A lot of "bad language" has origins rooted in the old British class system, leading to us treating words associating with the upper crust as just dandy, and words associated with the less wealthy as a big no no.
Puritanical taboos around nudity also often lead to some weird story and game decisions.
You mean the thing that most people in authority positions don't use while addressing others to appear more respectable? If there is no negative connotation on swearing and profanity, then why purposefully avoid using it in those cases?
I didn't say there was no negative connotation, and nor would I want Shepard swearing profusely when given an order by Hackett (though doing so to his subordinates would be perfectly acceptable and in fact realistic). The negative connotation of the language is the point.
However, it doesn't make said language "immature" in any sense of the definition of the latter word. Your moral outrage at mean words is irrelevant.
Quite a few. I also know that is a false equivalence since those people weren't equipped with armor and especially shields that were designed specifically to stop that. If they wanted to be realistic, the only thing that would happen if you head shot an enemy would be the inside of their helmet would get messy, not have it and the helmet pop like a water balloon.
Than your "experiences" don't match my own working in MI and seeing the results of modern weaponry first and secondhand. Steel on skulls makes chunks, personal armor designed only to stop underpowered small arms or not.
And if Bioware ever decides to show the miracle of birth in one of their games, I will accept that as an appropriate and mature use of nudity. Other than that, I don't see a scenario where it is needed other than titillation.
I can. Realistic depictions of almost any sexual activity (including exotic performance arts such as the dancers seen), hygiene activities such as showering, or torture are all areas that would fit ME's tone and setting, and where nudity would be appropriately realistic without any intent for "titillation". Indeed, given the mature nature of the games, any less would be unnecessary prudishness.
Puritanical taboos around nudity also often lead to some weird story and game decisions.
Gotta love how those who don't care for nudity in their games get labeled "puritanitcal" all the time.
Seriously, is name-calling the only real argument that can be brought against it?
Gotta love how those who don't care for nudity in their games get labeled "puritanitcal" all the time.
Seriously, is name-calling the only real argument that can be brought against it?
I don't think that was name-calling directed at anyone here, so much as acknowledging the phenomenon.
And yeah, when it means that a given character ends up wearing more clothes than they normally do when the nasty happens, I would characterize that as a weird story decision. Fully clothed shower scenes, dark rituals, etc.
There are plenty of real arguments that can be brought against it, and have in fact been brought against it, repeatedly, in this thread and the other one. Around we go.
Seriously, is name-calling the only real argument that can be brought against it?
Plenty of arguments are there, the puritans simply refuse to acknowledge anything that doesn't fit their psychosis inflicted worldview, such as the undeniable fact that the vast majority of human adults living on Planet Earth in the year 2015 swear and engage in many activities (especially those of a sexual nature) in the nude, and therefore that depictions in entertainment aimed at said adults should logically do the same when displaying the appropriate examples of human relations.
Retour en haut