836 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

Well, to use my favorite counter example, Avatar: The Last Airbender ran into this exact problem with its series finale. The creators had to introduce a contrived solution to circumvent the main character killing the Chief Antagonist. 

 

Granted, there's no official ratings involved here, but that's the same basic principle. Plot points/character development/dialogue potentially suffering from efforts to circumvent adult-rated content. 

 

Is it bad that I prefered this ending over Aang killing the villain?

[Il Divo]

It's not like the original series didn't have people getting killed either. 

 

Sure, technically. 

 

I believe the official list is: Admiral Zhao, Yue, Jet, Roku, his dragon, and Combustion Man. 

 

But for a series whose base premise relies on genocide and in which death is often threatened so casually, it's pretty bad how much the creators had to tiptoe. Jet in particular was a bitter point for them as I recall. 

[AresKeith]

it was pretty rare, more often than not bad guys limoed or crawled away rather than being shown dead.

Admiral Moonkiller is the only exception that comes immediately to mind

 

That's why MK benders >>>> Avatar benders

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Such as?

 

Again, I'd like a refresher on these things, and for a cogent case to be made for a T-rated Mass Effect game. 

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 comes to mind. 

 

Alright, here's a broad question: What makes Mass Effect an M-rated game to you, and what would be lost if they took the rating down a notch?

Nothing negative would be lost. 

[Former_Fiend]

Alright, here's a broad question: What makes Mass Effect an M-rated game to you, and what would be lost if they took the rating down a notch?

 

 

Great post, and a great start.

 

For me it just comes back to this four letter word; tone.

 

These games have a very adult tone. They deal with adult fear, adult hate, adult love. 

 

And I think if you take away a lot of the elements that help make the world that way; the sexual content and themes, the language, the alcohol, then at best what you can do is turn out a fairly well written story that just does not feel true to life because it doesn't have a voice to it. It becomes something that has to be constructed around the limitations of it's rating and doesn't feel real. It doesn't feel true to life.

 

In the other thread, when we're talking about swearing, the claim is made that you can use non-swear words to convey the same emotions as swear words, just making them unnecessary. To an extent that is true in that it is physically possible, but it also isn't very true to life. You can write a character who can get all their points across with words that are going to send your audience to thesaurus.com as well as they could with a tirade of expletives, but the tirade of expletives is going to have something the more verbose character wouldn't; they're going to feel authentic.  It could give you something like Michael Pena's character in Ant-Man, which works for a comedy but doesn't work with a more serious tone.

 

That's just one example. The point is, these games need to be rated M to maintain a mature, adult tone. That's where the believably of the series comes from. It isn't in the ridiculous technology fueled by unobtanium. It's in the authenticity of the characters, and that comes from things that they couldn't get away with on a T rating.

[AresKeith]

Sure, technically. 

 

I believe the official list is: Admiral Zhao, Yue, Jet, Roku, his dragon, and Combustion Man. 

 

But for a series whose base premise relies on genocide and in which death is often threatened so casually, it's pretty bad how much the creators had to tiptoe. Jet in particular was a bitter point for them as I recall. 

 

And Zhao could technically still be alive from what we saw in LoK

[dreamgazer]

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 comes to mind.

Which scenario is analogous to Virmire in that one to you?

Let's also take it up a notch and discuss the Ascension-human dilemma.
 

Nothing negative would be lost.

Elaborate.

[Former_Fiend]

Is it bad that I prefered this ending over Aang killing the villain?

 

I hate that Lion Turtle. I hate it so much.

[AresKeith]

I hate that Lion Turtle. I hate it so much.

 

If the Lion Turtles were mentioned early in the show I wouldn't have hated it either 

[Steelcan]

And Zhao could technically still be alive from what we saw in LoK

Trapped in a pit of Madness in the Spirit World isn't life man

[byne]

I hate that Lion Turtle. I hate it so much.

 

Lion Turtle was better than ghost Aang showing up and solving all of Korra's problems.

[byne]

If the Lion Turtles were mentioned early in the show I wouldn't have hated it either 

 

They were actually shown a few times, just never actually mentioned. I think there were paintings of them in the library and Piandao's house.

[ForgottenWarrior]

BioWare's already gone back in that direction with Star Wars: The Old Republic, after all.

yeah, and SWTOR doesn't have a sex scenes, and assuming that most of the audience plays BW's games to get laid at least there - that would be a huge loss.

[Steelcan]

Lion Turtle was better than ghost Aang showing up and solving all of Korra's problems.

which in turn was better than not!Hitler seeing the error of her ways and promising to be good

[AresKeith]

Lion Turtle was better than ghost Aang showing up and solving all of Korra's problems.

 

I view those two on the same level as tacked on scenes

[Il Divo]

Is it bad that I prefered this ending over Aang killing the villain?

 

Not necessarily.

 

I thought it was a great finale. But in spite of the Lion Turtle, rather than because of him.

 Some points that bothered me:

 

1) It was unnecessary. Aang could have simply defeated the Fire Lord and caged him. It's not exactly uncommon in the context of the series. Characters get "defeated" all the time without death being utilized. 

 

2) Aang's sudden realization a year after the start of his journey that "defeating" the Firelord might have to mean "killing" the Firelord simply because no one happened to use the term until this point. Yes, he's a kid, but Aang's had to deal with some pretty heavy themes at this point. In the context of the universe (where death is a frequent threat), the idea that Zuko mentioning killing Ozai so late in the series is what set off this emotional spiral is questionable.

 

3) Finally, it depicts Aang as being able to escape a struggle that's pretty essential to his status as the Avatar. The Avatar does not belong to any one nation. In context, Aang's conversation with his past lives is meant to establish the idea that his duty is not to his Air Nomad teachings, but that he has an obligation to the World itself (an Airbending Avatar points this out to him). At which point, the Lion Turtle enters the picture (with no build up) to save the protagonist from his last minute struggle. 

[Kabooooom]

Sex, drugs, and violence. More, plz.

These things have captivated our species since time immemorial. While partaking in them in reality tends to be antisocial or gets one a prison sentence, having a video game be escapist is generally considered a pleasurable experience.

Why? Because humans are like, a totally f*cked up animal. I mean, lets be honest. Look at Chimpanzees - they are equally as f*cked up as we are. The only difference is, we realize it.

So yeah, I prefer the mature rating to be honest. If I shoot someone in the face, I would expect the game would appropriately demonstrate the graphical consequences of that. If I bang an Asari (or two), then, similar expectation. I dont want such things cut out just to appeal to a wider audience.

[Sanunes]

 

Alright, here's a broad question: What makes Mass Effect an M-rated game to you, and what would be lost if they took the rating down a notch?

 
Great post, and a great start.

 

I agree a lot with Former_Friend and I think they articulated the reasoning much better then I ever could about how important the tone is to the game. 

 

Another thing that I believe that makes Mass Effect have a higher rating then a lot of other games is the amount of body horror which also falls into the tone of the game. It gives you your purpose for stopping The Reapers in the first three games and to me why there was a certain amount of dissatisfaction about Mass Effect 3.  I think reducing that would also remove what makes The Reapers into such a foe that Shepard is willing to break all the rules for stopping them.

[Former_Fiend]

While I have plenty of opinions to express about Avatar and Korra, in the interest of not derailing this thread further, I'll keep them to myself.

 

On topic; simply speaking, there is nothing to be gained by Bioware moving the games to a T rating and there is plenty that could go wrong in terms of quality, some of it being virtually guaranteed to take a downturn. 

 

Bioware needs to stay the course. It's the smart business decision, it offers them the most freedom in crafting their stories, and it's good for the genre of science fiction and roleplaying games as a whole.

[byne]

While I have plenty of opinions to express about Avatar and Korra, in the interest of not derailing this thread further, I'll keep them to myself.

 

>not derailing a thread

>BSN

 

pick one

[caradoc2000]

Better yet, make it EC rated: Sesame Street goes to Andromeda.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

I wouldn't say that doing so would place such a game 100% out of the running for me, but there's a very large chance that I would probably not buy it simply because the necessary concessions for such a rating would sacrifice the depth of storytelling and nuances that I have come to expect from Bioware RPG's. 

 

Quite honestly the RPG market is NOT the same as the Action Game market.  There's some small level of crossover but the powers at Bioware should be canny enough to realize by now that sacrificing a loyal core existing demographic in the HOPES of gaining a very fickle and attention-deficit teen market would be a poor business decision.

[Il Divo]

My bad. To try to move back towards the OP: my point is that sometimes the move to avoid exploring certain content ends up compromising the integrity of the characters and the plot.

 

I'd rather Bioware start with an M rated game, where they at least have the freedom to operate how they want, without restriction.  

[SnakeCode]

Absolutely. All gore, vulgar language and female nipples need to go. They distract from the overall theme of killing loads of baddies.

 

Cause remember folks, killing people is absolutely fine, it's only bad if you actually see blood.

[DaemionMoadrin]

While I have plenty of opinions to express about Avatar and Korra, in the interest of not derailing this thread further, I'll keep them to myself.

 

 

It would make for a better topic though...