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[Gaia300]

After my first and recent DAO playthrough this still bluff me.

Why she doesn't mention the US to the Warden,it has passed an entire year,and unlike FLemeth i'm sure that she was aware that the new Wardens were ignorant about the matter.

It was not her duty of course,but still that is a pretty low thing to do ,especially for high friendship status or during a relationship.

Now in my recent first playthrough of DAO ,my female dalish elf agreed with AListair to kill Loghain

(sorry Riordan i was unaware about everything,i did not see Loghain values as a GW)

then decided to let Anora rule,because unhardened AListair doesn't wish to be king

(yep i was unaware about the possibility to harden him in his quest)

At redcliffe my Warden asked to Morrigan this,and she responded something on the line

"would you have believed me ? I have my doubts"

Now honestly what kind of excuse is this?

Why should i have not believed her about this? With high friendship status and coming from a Flemeth daughters,which is basically important (her mother) for the dalish.

So since Anora was the queen and Alistair willingly decided to sacrifice himself, i agreed with the Warden commander ending,because spare and old god for a dalish especially with the limited knowledge of my warden,who still believe into the dalish tales(no Solas in this game) in DAO and convince AListair to do something that he doesn't wish to do(just for player agency),was a firmly no,no.

Now basically,i could have saved him if only that witch was not so self absorbed with her secretive plan,the more i think about it,the more i believe that she hidden this on purpose,to better further her plan.

I don't mind the Dark ritual,afterall it was impossible for her to know that my warden would have go so far in the battle against the blight still it bluff me that she has not revealed the US,truly ,it was to difficult for her?

Or she as just decided to play her cards close to her chest and willingly not allow the Warden to be more prepared by recruiting more Wardens,including Loghain and Avernus

 of course with all this wardens reject the ritual would have been kind of a joke for most players and for sure AListair would have not protested so much.

[Akiza]

Perhaps she has hidden the info about the sacrifice on purpose

[sylvanaerie]

I remember reading on the boards once that Morrigan was actually hoping that more Grey Wardens would have been present at the end.  She really doesn't want to sleep with Alistair.  As for the plan, the PC doesn't know the price to pay for a long, long time.  Morrigan is afraid of not being believed, of being turned out of the group if the PC does learn prematurely, of any number of reasons, not all of which get voiced.  Considering how just about everything she says is either erroneous or a flat out lie, skewed by her very screwed up world view, she's not racking up a lot of credibility points.

 

My problem with her isn't her secrets, its that she just drops the warden like a hot potato if you refuse to go through with it.  "Sorry, I've been with you a year and now come to you with this whackadoo plan the night before you march off to do battle--and most likely die--but I was risking my skin all along for the chance at getting an old god baby.  I didn't sign on to actually fight at the end if you don't give me what I want, I'll take my ball and go home." The PC may be in a love affair with Alistair, may believe Morrigan is trying to steal him from her if she comes forward sooner or trying to break them up for the lulz because she hates Alistair.  Or that she just wants to stir up drama in the group.  Alistair is as much in the dark as the PC and would be the first to say Morrigan "Is lying and trying to stir up trouble" and he's been a grey warden longer than the PC has been.  When you follow the dialogue line about how to kill it, all Alistair says is "you chop it's head off".  Which technically is true, you just have to make sure you're a grey warden before you do that.
 

Ultimately, when things just don't add up I have to fall back on my mantra "It's in the script".  Had Morrigan come to the PC earlier in the story, it would have completely ruined that moment when Riordan drops his little bombshell late in the game.  The player believes Riordan because he's a senior Grey Warden, he has credibility.  And seriously, why would he lie about something like that?  He has nothing to gain personally in this.  Morrigan would be receiving a very powerful commodity--a child with an old god's soul--that she will even say she intends to raise on her own.  She's not going to stick her neck out regardless of what she thinks of the warden until she thinks she has the best chance of getting what she wants.  Early on in the game when the situation isn't quite as desperate, when the possibility of other wardens arriving--even as late as your arrival in Redcliffe after the Landsmeet you can ask Eamon about help from Orlais--is still a hopeful outcome and the prospect of dying is a far off happenstance isn't going to provide a good chance she'll get what she wants.

 

And right after you've heard the news, when you're still reeling from the shock/fear/despair, she offers her loophole to the whole Grey Warden deal.  The warden dies without the ritual, that's true, but she also manipulates that last night, pulls your romantic feelings for one of the companions (meaning Zevran, Alistair or Leliana) into the argument to tug at the heart strings, anything she can use to get that child, another manipulation tool she doesn't have earlier in the game.

 

If anything, her feelings for the warden (either love or friendship) just complicate the matter even further and serve to make the whole thing more personal for her.

[andy6915]

And right after you've heard the news, when you're still reeling from the shock/fear/despair, she offers her loophole to the whole Grey Warden deal.  The warden dies without the ritual, that's true, but she also manipulates that last night, pulls your romantic feelings for one of the companions (meaning Zevran, Alistair or Leliana) into the argument to tug at the heart strings, anything she can use to get that child, another manipulation tool she doesn't have earlier in the game.
 
If anything, her feelings for the warden (either love or friendship) just complicate the matter even further and serve to make the whole thing more personal for her.

Or maybe she really does want to save your life, did you think of that? Is it really manipulation? There was a time where the future child was all she cared about, but in a high approval friendship it's clear that saving your life has become even more important than having a god baby. Yeah, she is using emotional appeal... And? Is she wrong that Leliana and Alistair or Zevran would take your death badly, is she lying about that? No, she's absolutely right. It's not manipulative to point out that your loved ones would be utterly shattered to lose you, that's just her pointing out that you dying would affect more than just yourself and that maybe you should try everything possible to survive for them. And in high approval, she's one of the ones who would hate for you to die. Using emotional appeal to basically talk a friend out of killing themselves isn't manipulative, not unless suicide prevention is also bad thing to you. Emotional appeal isn't bad in every circumstance, especially when a life is on the line.

And she knows that feelings just made it harder. That's precisely why earlier in the game she says that "while [she] will not always prove worthy of your friendship that [she] will always value it". It's also why she considers a relationship with you a mistake. And not really because of the god baby thing, if anything being close to you makes it far easier to convince you. No, what feelings make more difficult is her leaving afterward. As for why she leaves if you don't do it, think about it. You just either proved to be someone she never liked to start with if you have low approval (so who cares about you anyway), or you just showed her that you don't trust her at all despite high friendship and knowing each other for a year. So in one case she is indeed just being a sore loser, but in the other you in effect just told her that she's still just some suspicious and evil witch to you. That probably hurt her so badly that all she could so as not to break down in front of you is to immediately transform and leave before she makes and embarrassed fool out of herself by being an emotional train wreck. I can't really blame her, you chose to distrust her after she thought you was friends and would in fact rather risk death than trust her... That is going to hurt, even someone strong like her.


Also, I would have trusted her. If she had said what it takes you kill an archdemon, I in fact would have trusted her about it. It's kinda obvious that the taint in you probably does have something to do with why ONLY a warden can kill it, you should have been expecting something like that from the beginning. But that was just her being scared of getting emotionally hurt to know you don't trust her, she would rather just not mention it. Mentioning it and you not believing her would have hit her right in the heart, so it was easier to just not bring it up at all. Of course, she ends up needing to confirm your trust anyway in the end... But she put that off for as long as she possibly could, out of fear of the answer.

Seems to me that you just didn't like her and didn't trust her, so you're seeing everything through a negative lens. I'm not saying I'm any less biased, I like her and so I of course see everything through a positive lens. But you do seem to be the exact kind of person she wouldn't particularly care if you trust her and doesn't care that much on a personal level whether you die or not.

[sylvanaerie]

Or maybe she really does want to save your life, did you think of that? Is it really manipulation? There was a time where the future child was all she cared about, but in a high approval friendship it's clear that saving your life has become even more important than having a god baby. Yeah, she is using emotional appeal... And? Is she wrong that Leliana and Alistair or Zevran would take your death badly, is she lying about that? No, she's absolutely right. It's not manipulative to point out that your loved ones would be utterly shattered to lose you, that's just her pointing out that you dying would affect more than just yourself and that maybe you should try everything possible to survive for them. And in high approval, she's one of the ones who would hate for you to die. Using emotional appeal to basically talk a friend out of killing themselves isn't manipulative, not unless suicide prevention is also bad thing to you. Emotional appeal isn't bad in every circumstance, especially when a life is on the line.

And she knows that feelings just made it harder. That's precisely why earlier in the game she says that "while [she] will not always prove worthy of your friendship that [she] will always value it". It's also why she considers a relationship with you a mistake. And not really because of the god baby thing, if anything being close to you makes it far easier to convince you. No, what feelings make more difficult is her leaving afterward. As for why she leaves if you don't do it, think about it. You just either proved to be someone she never liked to start with if you have low approval (so who cares about you anyway), or you just showed her that you don't trust her at all despite high friendship and knowing each other for a year. So in one case she is indeed just being a sore loser, but in the other you in effect just told her that she's still just some suspicious and evil witch to you. That probably hurt her so badly that all she could so as not to break down in front of you is to immediately transform and leave before she makes and embarrassed fool out of herself by being an emotional train wreck. I can't really blame her, you chose to distrust her after she thought you was friends and would in fact rather risk death than trust her... That is going to hurt, even someone strong like her.


Also, I would have trusted her. If she had said what it takes you kill an archdemon, I in fact would have trusted her about it. It's kinda obvious that the taint in you probably does have something to do with why ONLY a warden can kill it, you should have been expecting something like that from the beginning. But that was just her being scared of getting emotionally hurt to know you don't trust her, she would rather just not mention it. Mentioning it and you not believing her would have hit her right in the heart, so it was easier to just not bring it up at all. Of course, she ends up needing to confirm your trust anyway in the end... But she put that off for as long as she possibly could, out of fear of the answer.

Seems to me that you just didn't like her and didn't trust her, so you're seeing everything through a negative lens. I'm not saying I'm any less biased, I like her and so I of course see everything through a positive lens. But you do seem to be the exact kind of person she wouldn't particularly care if you trust her and doesn't care that much on a personal level whether you die or not.

 

Actually, I love Morrigan.  She's my third favorite character in the game (after Alistair and Zevran).  That doesn't change that I can see she's lying and manipulating the warden from day one.  And the fact is, she doesn't trust you in the beginning either, or she would have been more forthcoming.  I get that.  She doesn't know you, nor do you know her.  Trust isn't something you just give to someone, so no I wouldn't have just taken her word initially.  She's right.  Later, when she grows closer to me, I can't say.  Without corroboration from a more senior Grey Warden, it would then depend on my individual wardens. Some were more trusting and liked her more, others were less so.  She won't even elaborate on what she plans to do with the child unless you press the issue.  If you tell Alistair what exactly she has planned (a baby) she will comment that honesty wasn't the tact she would have used.  I get that she's referring to him, but it makes me wonder how honest she's being with the warden.  The warden doesn't have a crystal ball, he/she has to judge from his own experience if giving Morrigan what she's asking for is worth the potential price to pay later. 

 

Spoiler

Morrigan will also tell you Flemeth wants to possess her body (something Morrigan truly believes I think), but she's wrong about that too.  She's not infallible but at that point, you've either attempted to kill Flemeth or have tricked Morrigan into thinking she's dead (however temporarily) and Morrigan is going to have her mother coming after her.  The warden has that to consider too, what if something were to happen to Morrigan, what would become of the Old Gold Baby then?

There is the child to consider in this as well and boils down to what the player believes about life, the afterlife etc.  Does life (the soul) start at conception, or later with a heart beat? Or still later when higher brain function begins?  What happens to the original soul when the AD's goes into the fetus? 

 

I get that high friendship/love means part of the reason she's doing this is to save your life (as a friend, or lover) or to save Alistair's (if he is a friend or lover to the warden) and to spare your loved one from the pain of the loss.  That doesn't change the fact that I also see her saying "Think of Alistair (Leliana/Zevran), how will they feel to lose the woman/man they love?" as manipulative.  I'm not stupid, I know that they would grieve, she doesn't have to point that out.  Perhaps she's even putting some of her own feelings into that query if she has high approval with the warden. That doesn't make what she says any less manipulative.  Even things that are for your own good like suicide prevention can still be "manipulative" it doesn't have to be something evil, such as when someone is trying to talk someone away from a ledge.   Wouldn't you say anything to keep them listening and not leaping?  I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I still recognize it's manipulative. 1001 Arabian Nights is classic manipulation, turned to good, but it works out in the end to a happy ending because it saves the life of a good and faithful woman (Scheherazade).  Morrigan's can be perceived as either good or bad, depending on how much emphasis you put on her motives.  Is she being genuine and caring, or trying to get something from the warden?  It's open to interpretation and may vary from game to game with how you roleplay your warden.

 

Some people never give her the child, feeling she is manipulating and lying to get something powerful for power's sake, preferring to sacrifice their warden or Loghain, or Alistair because they just don't trust her.  I've never known those who only did the DR, but that doesn't mean there aren't some out there who do, or consider that their canon (my canon warden does).  And the dialogue allows for that kind of open play.  It's one of Origins' strong points, this fluidity of play.

 

Spoiler

And at the time of Origins, when she agrees to her mother to go through with the ritual and is offering it to the warden, there is a lot of self interest and an intent to use the power she would gain from control of that ancient soul for her own motives.  That she alters this stance later in Inquisition doesn't change her motives when she made the offer in the first place.  I like that they made her very complex, very human.  She's not all good, not all bad, she's simply "Morrigan" which makes her a believable and interesting character.

And lastly, I usually take the DR ending, mostly because I do like Morrigan, and because it's the only way you're going to get a happy ending at the end of the game.

Spoiler

 And I know that it all turns out alright in the end and Morrigan experiences some really good character growth in Inquisition, particularly if she was romanced and the warden follows her through the looking glass in WH.  She becomes a good, caring mother who wants what's best for her son, and is willing to offer up her own life for him.

 

But what of those wardens who don't like the idea of what she's doing, who feel no one should have that kind of power, or worry that something bad will come of this, even with the best intentions, or worry that it just won't work and gets fouled up by something worse?  It may have nothing to do with 'thinking she's an evil, lying witch'.  There is more than one way to look at it.  She should respect that as well, but her 'survival/power at any price' mentality doesn't encompass a self sacrificing viewpoint.  She calls you a fool and walks out if refused.  That could be partly she doesn't want to stick around and watch you die (high approval), but with Riordan and Alistair/Loghain around that's not a guaranteed thing, nor is she willing to assist you at this point to ensure you don't die.  I don't always agree to do everything my friends want, that doesn't mean they just walk away and never call me again.  Just because my friends are all jumping off a cliff doesn't mean I'm gonna get in line too. Seems to me she's not being a good friend at that point.  

Unfortunately, the dialogue options are pretty limited at that point.  It's yes, or no basically, no in between.  Unfortunately as well (at least on PC) her dialogue is bugged all to hell in that conversation and she still refers to Alistair as "the future king" even if he's just another warden, and she tries to use that in her argument as well, really muddling the issue if you intend Anora to rule after.

 

And as the OP asked why Morrigan waits to tell you about the ritual till it's almost too late, I was offering my perspective on the character.  By no means is this intended as a definitive character assessment, it's just my perspective on her.  Her behavior fits a low approval Morrigan who isn't that emotionally invested in the warden.  The only issue I got with her is the departure if refused on a high approval warden.  I could even get she leaves if she loves the warden because she doesn't want to watch him die, but it seems like a cowardly act to me, something I never thought of Morrigan as being.  I should think she'd try to stick around and do everything she can to ensure someone else kills the AD instead of her love. This is not so clear cut if she's just a friend.  I don't see Morrigan getting all 'mushy and emotional' if the warden is just friends with her.  That seems very out of character to me, as her own self interest/practicality would make 'becoming an emotional train wreck' not very likely.  Seems more to me like she's cutting her losses and disconnecting emotionally from the warden, friend or not because she has wasted the last year planning for something she's not going to get.

 

If the romanced PC still has her gift (the ring), her ending slide says you can feel her regret (for leaving? with or without the child), and I'm glad WH gives those who romanced her closure for their relationship.  But this slide is only available for a warden who romanced her.  Morrigan unromanced and childless is an enigma post Origins for me as I didn't do that ending often.  I don't like WC or Redemption and US is just too unhappy.  Beautifully tragic, but unhappy.

 

I've known friends who actually stabbed her at the mirror on a couple of wardens for her 'betrayal' but I've never seen it as betrayal, just "Morrigan being Morrigan".

 

She's lovely and complex and one of the more interesting of Bioware's creations, and I loved her story arc in Inquisition as she really seems to grow from who she was in Origins.  May I note I haven't created a world state with a dead warden in it to import into DAI, so she's always been a mother in Inquisition for my games.  I have yet to see what--if any--kind of character growth she experiences if she's still childless.

[andy6915]

Actually, I love Morrigan.  She's my third favorite character in the game (after Alistair and Zevran).  That doesn't change that I can see she's lying and manipulating the warden from day one.  And the fact is, she doesn't trust you in the beginning either, or she would have been more forthcoming.  I get that.  She doesn't know you, nor do you know her.  Trust isn't something you just give to someone, so no I wouldn't have just taken her word initially.  She's right.  Later, when she grows closer to me, I can't say.  Without corroboration from a more senior Grey Warden, it would then depend on my individual wardens. Some were more trusting and liked her more, others were less so.  She won't even elaborate on what she plans to do with the child unless you press the issue.  If you tell Alistair what exactly she has planned (a baby) she will comment that honesty wasn't the tact she would have used.  I get that she's referring to him, but it makes me wonder how honest she's being with the warden.  The warden doesn't have a crystal ball, he/she has to judge from his own experience if giving Morrigan what she's asking for is worth the potential price to pay later. 

 

Spoiler

Morrigan will also tell you Flemeth wants to possess her body (something Morrigan truly believes I think), but she's wrong about that too.  She's not infallible but at that point, you've either attempted to kill Flemeth or have tricked Morrigan into thinking she's dead (however temporarily) and Morrigan is going to have her mother coming after her.  The warden has that to consider too, what if something were to happen to Morrigan, what would become of the Old Gold Baby then?

There is the child to consider in this as well and boils down to what the player believes about life, the afterlife etc.  Does life (the soul) start at conception, or later with a heart beat? Or still later when higher brain function begins?  What happens to the original soul when the AD's goes into the fetus? 

 

I get that high friendship/love means part of the reason she's doing this is to save your life (as a friend, or lover) or to save Alistair's (if he is a friend or lover to the warden) and to spare your loved one from the pain of the loss.  That doesn't change the fact that I also see her saying "Think of Alistair (Leliana/Zevran), how will they feel to lose the woman/man they love?" as manipulative.  I'm not stupid, I know that they would grieve, she doesn't have to point that out.  Perhaps she's even putting some of her own feelings into that query if she has high approval with the warden. That doesn't make what she says any less manipulative.  Even things that are for your own good like suicide prevention can still be "manipulative" it doesn't have to be something evil, such as when someone is trying to talk someone away from a ledge.   Wouldn't you say anything to keep them listening and not leaping?  I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I still recognize it's manipulative. 1001 Arabian Nights is classic manipulation, turned to good, but it works out in the end to a happy ending because it saves the life of a good and faithful woman (Scheherazade).  Morrigan's can be perceived as either good or bad, depending on how much emphasis you put on her motives.  Is she being genuine and caring, or trying to get something from the warden?  It's open to interpretation and may vary from game to game with how you roleplay your warden.

 

Some people never give her the child, feeling she is manipulating and lying to get something powerful for power's sake, preferring to sacrifice their warden or Loghain, or Alistair because they just don't trust her.  I've never known those who only did the DR, but that doesn't mean there aren't some out there who do, or consider that their canon (my canon warden does).  And the dialogue allows for that kind of open play.  It's one of Origins' strong points, this fluidity of play.

 

Spoiler

And at the time of Origins, when she agrees to her mother to go through with the ritual and is offering it to the warden, there is a lot of self interest and an intent to use the power she would gain from control of that ancient soul for her own motives.  That she alters this stance later in Inquisition doesn't change her motives when she made the offer in the first place.  I like that they made her very complex, very human.  She's not all good, not all bad, she's simply "Morrigan" which makes her a believable and interesting character.

And lastly, I usually take the DR ending, mostly because I do like Morrigan, and because it's the only way you're going to get a happy ending at the end of the game.

Spoiler

 And I know that it all turns out alright in the end and Morrigan experiences some really good character growth in Inquisition, particularly if she was romanced and the warden follows her through the looking glass in WH.  She becomes a good, caring mother who wants what's best for her son, and is willing to offer up her own life for him.

 

But what of those wardens who don't like the idea of what she's doing, who feel no one should have that kind of power, or worry that something bad will come of this, even with the best intentions, or worry that it just won't work and gets fouled up by something worse?  It may have nothing to do with 'thinking she's an evil, lying witch'.  There is more than one way to look at it.  She should respect that as well, but her 'survival/power at any price' mentality doesn't encompass a self sacrificing viewpoint.  She calls you a fool and walks out if refused.  That could be partly she doesn't want to stick around and watch you die (high approval), but with Riordan and Alistair/Loghain around that's not a guaranteed thing, nor is she willing to assist you at this point to ensure you don't die.  I don't always agree to do everything my friends want, that doesn't mean they just walk away and never call me again.  Just because my friends are all jumping off a cliff doesn't mean I'm gonna get in line too. Seems to me she's not being a good friend at that point.  

Unfortunately, the dialogue options are pretty limited at that point.  It's yes, or no basically, no in between.  Unfortunately as well (at least on PC) her dialogue is bugged all to hell in that conversation and she still refers to Alistair as "the future king" even if he's just another warden, and she tries to use that in her argument as well, really muddling the issue if you intend Anora to rule after.

 

And as the OP asked why Morrigan waits to tell you about the ritual till it's almost too late, I was offering my perspective on the character.  By no means is this intended as a definitive character assessment, it's just my perspective on her.  Her behavior fits a low approval Morrigan who isn't that emotionally invested in the warden.  The only issue I got with her is the departure if refused on a high approval warden.  I could even get she leaves if she loves the warden because she doesn't want to watch him die, but it seems like a cowardly act to me, something I never thought of Morrigan as being.  I should think she'd try to stick around and do everything she can to ensure someone else kills the AD instead of her love. This is not so clear cut if she's just a friend.  I don't see Morrigan getting all 'mushy and emotional' if the warden is just friends with her.  That seems very out of character to me, as her own self interest/practicality would make 'becoming an emotional train wreck' not very likely.  Seems more to me like she's cutting her losses and disconnecting emotionally from the warden, friend or not because she has wasted the last year planning for something she's not going to get.

 

If the romanced PC still has her gift (the ring), her ending slide says you can feel her regret (for leaving? with or without the child), and I'm glad WH gives those who romanced her closure for their relationship.  But this slide is only available for a warden who romanced her.  Morrigan unromanced and childless is an enigma post Origins for me as I didn't do that ending often.  I don't like WC or Redemption and US is just too unhappy.  Beautifully tragic, but unhappy.

 

I've known friends who actually stabbed her at the mirror on a couple of wardens for her 'betrayal' but I've never seen it as betrayal, just "Morrigan being Morrigan".

 

She's lovely and complex and one of the more interesting of Bioware's creations, and I loved her story arc in Inquisition as she really seems to grow from who she was in Origins.  May I note I haven't created a world state with a dead warden in it to import into DAI, so she's always been a mother in Inquisition for my games.  I have yet to see what--if any--kind of character growth she experiences if she's still childless.

 

I... See. It seems I misread you as a Morrigan hater, when you're anything but. I apologize. And there's nothing in the quoted post that I can actually say I disagree with.

[sylvanaerie]

Gaider wrote and Aimo illustrated a lovely short comic strip about the conversation Morrigan has with Alistair right before she goes to speak to the warden on that night that really captures a lot of what a high approval Morrigan is experiencing before making her offer.  The one on the bioware blog only shows the first page, the other links are broken to the other pages.  This one on the artist's blog is complete.

 

http://momochanners....ry-single-brick

[andy6915]

Gaider wrote and Aimo illustrated a lovely short comic strip about the conversation Morrigan has with Alistair right before she goes to speak to the warden on that night that really captures a lot of what a high approval Morrigan is experiencing before making her offer.  The one on the bioware blog only shows the first page, the other links are broken to the other pages.  This one on the artist's blog is complete.

 

http://momochanners....ry-single-brick

 

I've actually already seen that, but thanks anyway .

[Secret Rare]

My canon is the Redemption ending,so far i see Loghain to be by far more honorable than Morrigan,but most of all he can pay for his crimes.

Morrigan character have lost all credibility to me

(Female city elf and she was with high friendship) when she started to act mindless evil into the alienage,(you can call it bad writing,i don't care i don't want to find any justification to this,it is Morrigan doing).

Suggest to sell on slavery my parents and my friends really, really Morrigan?

Have you not realized in 1 year that my warden is an elf,a city elf,have you not recognize that the people into the alienage were close friends? No?

She first suggest to sell them all on slavery

(even pay 100 sovereign to the magister),yes i know some Morrigan defenders will come and will say to me is only because she care about my Warden,she care so much that she wish to avoid a pointless battle ok,however later on when the magister Caladrius is defeated,she insist to sacrifice them all ,that is not grey is mindless evil.

I removed her permanently from the party after that, and married Alistair to Anora and spared Loghain 

(yes i was afraid that AListair was destinated to share the same  destiny of Cailan,dejavu),at least i can work with Loghain try to understand him,at that point i was more interested into know him, rather than kill him without adress him for his crimes and so far i saw him to be a redeemable character and most important he can pay and he wish to pay an honorable man.

Then lovely Morrigan return without my cosent at Redclieffe,and finally reveal her double game

(try to convince me or Loghain at that point was futile,Loghain doesn't even know her and my warden despise her),so now my warden has not only suffered because of her for the event at the alienage but now she has the proof that she was manipulating her the whole time,she revelaed this only because it was her last chance,despite the fact that i sent her away she followed me  to Redclieffe

(because she loves me yes Andy? Please!),for her OGB chew toy,the soul of a being that is the simbolic enemy for the elves

Worshipped by the same empire who is supposedly the nation who gievs the final blow to the elves? A being that is capable to trigger a blight? Ridiculous!

(yes they kill themselves, but the empire ruined them later for the next generations)

I reject her and as she said

"seek my out at your own risk and peril" at that point we were mortal enemies and so yes in WH it was a matter of vengeance for my warden,vengeance pure and simple,a vengeance that doesn't need any justification,a vengeance for which my warden has waited for too long.

IN DAI peoples say that she is changed,not in my worldstate,she is the same stupid,arrogant and manipulative character,especially to the well of sorrow quest.

Try to  argue about elven knowledge with  Abelas,and even be ready to stab him if he rightfully  wish to destroy the well that belongs to his peoples? Really,Really?

Murderer others for power was not beyond her,and it is still not beyond her.

For my Lavellan inquisitor perspective who agreed to destroy the well of sorrow,only to see an elf being stabbed by her for the well,really i would have appreciated an option to fight her at that point,but she is protected by plot armor, like in WH,were if you didn't noticed yet the Eluvian was still functional. 

[Akiza]

Pretty much this,my perspective however comes from a female warden mage.

She suggested to kill them all into the tower,children included not because they may be abominations,like Gregoir believed (which is imho still despicable),but because their lifestyle doesn't fit with her point of view,Morrigan is mindless evil there.

There is no point in killing Wynne and the mages,even from a practical point of view,Wynne can help your warden during the quest to kill Uldred,but then again,between this,the alienage,the dalish and pretty much every other quest of DAO Morrigan was always a mess,trust her with an OGB?

Are we serious?

For 1 life i risk to trigger another blight? I risk to play with Flemeth and be her pawn?

I have to use childbirth as currency? i have to convince Loghain which mother was raped by the orlesian,or AListair which father has abandoned him to share the moral burden when they prefer the sacrifice?

And i have to give to this little arrogant girl the soul of an Archdemon?

Not until i'm sober of course,maybe not even if i'm drunk.

and when she leave my warden was like 

 "cheers to Morrigan,best bioware character ever really"

"no not really kind of a coward who leaves because doesn't get what she want at the last place of my list Anders being the only one who surpass her in stupidity"

Sorry but i believe that Morrigan character requires a lot of patience from the Warden parts,and to work with her and to be nice all the time.

But my warden doesn't have the time to think or care about her, or change her my warden has a lot of things to do,if she cannot change herself alone then is her problem and not mine.

Complex character where? 

She is a teenager girl who wish to emulate her mother

(Gaider said this was Morrigan core when he created her)

Complex characters are others not Morrigan,neither Morrigan,neither Loghain are  complex character to me,they follow their path until they fail.

You wish to know a complex character of DAO Flemeth is not Morrigan, who is part of the trio that i define as

the joke (Alistair),the goth (Morrigan) and the cheerleader (Leliana),3 persons that can be shaped like clay by my wardens.

three unstable characters,i strongly prefer Wynne and Zevran to them,especially Zevran .

[Aren]

Loghain ending all the time,he doesn't die in that horrific way at the Landsmeet and i avoid the DR which is more a damage than a benefit

(using Kieran like an object? No thanks),a great trauma for most Wardens especially Alistair who is losing a child

plus the achdemon is destroyed for the eternity insted to  go to FLemeth

[sylvanaerie]

Wow, so if I'm reading this right, out of dislike for the woman, your wardens are willing to utterly and completely destroy a man's body and soul?

 

And Aren, if you spare Loghain, it kills the romance/friendship, so that's over anyway, doing far more trauma to it than one night with Morrigan does.  Not seeing the logic of your argument there.  Alistair doesn't leave the warden to go running after Morrigan and his baby.  I consider my canon (a female Surana who made him king and remained his mistress and had the DR) to be happy ending, not something some of the posters on the board would agree with but it makes me happy.  Sometimes you have to take your happy ending with a bit of bittersweet, and I find this just the right dose.  

 

Obviously the overall theme of Origins is "Sacrifice".  To resolve the issue of the AD, something must be sacrificed, either a man's soul or a man's innocence.

 

From what I read, the OP was asking why is Morrigan doing these things?  I tried to provide an answer in my posts.  I see subsequent posts just filled with "Morrigan vitriol" and a lot of one sided speculation into her characterization.  Not very helpful to OP from what I can see unless your intent was to commiserate about what a terrible and evil b*tch she is.

 

Gonna leave ya'll with a quote I feel fits some wardens:

 

"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."

[Aren]

And Aren, if you spare Loghain, it kills the romance/friendship, so that's over anyway, doing far more trauma to it than one night with Morrigan does.

A Romance or a friendship means nothing compared to the removal of the old god soul and the absoulte security of the world.
Force Alistair to do what he does not want to do(concieve a child ) is no better than cut his romance/friendship

[Illegitimus]

 

After my first and recent DAO playthrough this still bluff me.

Why she doesn't mention the US to the Warden,it has passed an entire year,and unlike FLemeth i'm sure that she was aware that the new Wardens were ignorant about the matter.

It was not her duty of course,but still that is a pretty low thing to do ,especially for high friendship status or during a relationship.

 

I don't really see the issue.  Morrigan is secretive and Morrigan has her own agendas.  Why would she tell the Warden this secret even if she adores him?  Everyone suspects Morrigan of having ulterior motives.  Everyone is right even if Morrigan loves the Warden like a husband or a sibling.  Loving the Warden only increases Morrigan's motivation to convince the Warden to do the Ritual, or get one of her companions to, but unless the Warden hears about the sacrifice from another source, Morrigan fears that the Warden will think it a tale to trick them into participating in the Ritual.  

[Secret Rare]

 

 

From what I read, the OP was asking why is Morrigan doing these things?  I tried to provide an answer in my posts.  I see subsequent posts just filled with "Morrigan vitriol" and a lot of one sided speculation into her characterization.  

 

"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."

Saving the world while not gambling it to an uncertain fate as well as not using a child as a mere tool for my own selfish interest is supposed to be what makes my warden a monster?

So sacrifice one man for a good cause instead to behead him to maintain a relationship (like you did) is suppose to make me a monster?

What about Morrigan then that wanted to sacrifice 10 people?

If my warden is a monster o well what Morrigan and your Surana are then?

 

[Illegitimus]

 

Pretty much this Morrigan not telling the US,is simply because she is secretive and she is doing her own selfish interest,at the cost of gamble the world.

I don't buy her "would you have believed me?"

 

 

Well not telling the warden doesn't pose a risk to the world.  It doesn't make it less likely that the warden will kill the archdemon.  And why don't you buy it?  Do you trust Morrigan without question to never try to manipulate you with false claims or half truths?  I love Morrigan, but I don't trust her that much.  

[Tidus]

Here's my lopsided take.. I fully believe Morrigan is doing  Flemeth's bidding.

 

Why do I think that?

 

Flemeth saved the two gray wardens that Morrigan followed in the wilds--(spoiler alert) this comes out later in the game and when Flemeth comes after her grandson in DAI..

 

Another thought that crossed my mind..

 

Morrigan sees her ritual may be in danger when the PC starts wooing Leliana (if that story line is followed) and  she pretends to be jealous before saying make your mind up-me or Leliana. Her tone of voice lacks any real love for the warden through out this dialog.

 

You gotta like Morrigan for what she is.

[Secret Rare]

 

 

You gotta like Morrigan for what she is.

Exactly,if i do not like this sort of manipulative power mongering character who are madly in love with themselves and their supposed secretive agenda than is my business,if someone else love to be treated like a jerk by Morrigan and mocked for every good deed committed (DAO) than is their business

(i don't care on where she came from on how she was raised ,she has to take every responsibility for what she say).

[Illegitimus]

Here's my lopsided take.. I fully believe Morrigan is doing  Flemeth's bidding.

 

Why do I think that?

 

Flemeth saved the two gray wardens that Morrigan followed in the wilds--(spoiler alert) this comes out later in the game and when Flemeth comes after her grandson in DAI..

 

Another thought that crossed my mind..

 

Morrigan sees her ritual may be in danger when the PC starts wooing Leliana (if that story line is followed) and  she pretends to be jealous before saying make your mind up-me or Leliana. Her tone of voice lacks any real love for the warden through out this dialog.

 

You gotta like Morrigan for what she is.

 

Bear in mind, that scene has to cover more than one situation.  If her affection is somewhere in the low 50s, then no she probably isn't actually all that jealous and her reasons are somewhere on the range between "My plans are less likely to work if he falls in love in Leliana" and "I don't want to look foolish".  Whereas if it's in the 90s her emotions actually are involved, but she's keeping a tight lid on them and half hoping that he'll pick Leliana for the same reasons she asks the Warden to reject her.  

[Tidus]

Never thought of that and that makes perfect sense. Thanks!

[Gaia300]

Here my again, after a while.

SO basically what i have come to understand is that Morrigan at the beginning hide this because she doesn't trust me,and later because she believe that i would have seen her in a "bad light",still i do believe that it was possible for her to warn me during her personal quest when my warden asked to her why Flemeth sent her,in that moment she was half with my warden cause and half with her mother.

I have to reload the landsmeet and take Loghain,Alistair will be still in Denerim but off-screen,and for Morrigan ,well she leaves there is nothing that i can do about it, for my Dalish her principles are important i cannot save an old god.

Yes even with Solas meta knowledge i believe that they were the ancient ruler of Arlathan sealed by the dread wolf for a good reason

 

ps

Secret rare

"take it easy,Morrigan can also be adorable when she wants to"

[Secret Rare]

 

 

ps

Secret rare

"take it easy,Morrigan can also be adorable when she wants to"

 

I cannot

[Ferretinabun]

Gaider wrote and Aimo illustrated a lovely short comic strip about the conversation Morrigan has with Alistair right before she goes to speak to the warden on that night that really captures a lot of what a high approval Morrigan is experiencing before making her offer.  The one on the bioware blog only shows the first page, the other links are broken to the other pages.  This one on the artist's blog is complete.

 

http://momochanners....ry-single-brick

 

Wait, what??!!  GAIDER wrote this???

[German Soldier]

 

My problem with her isn't her secrets, its that she just drops the warden like a hot potato if you refuse to go through with it.  "Sorry, I've been with you a year and now come to you with this whackadoo plan the night before you march off to do battle--and most likely die--but I was risking my skin all along for the chance at getting an old god baby.  I didn't sign on to actually fight at the end if you don't give me what I want, I'll take my ball and go home.

I love this post,i know that you already said that you don't count her action as betrayal,but my Warden is very militaristic,she abandoned the army at a crucial moment,it doesn't morph in something else just because she didn't signed an official contract  in front of the king,for my Warden in this specific scenario this is betrayal from the group perspective and can be considered as such..