245 réponses à ce sujet

[Aren]

@Qis sorry but i just think that suggest the killing of others or to sold them on slavery when they are guilt of nothing

(Even if they are not parents,no need to play a city elf to do the right thing) is just evil,and whoever try to find justification to this isn't' so sane for my standard.

Morrigan of DAO is more evil than grey.

They tried to make her more pitiful in Witch Hunt and in that non canonic comic of Aimo

(which doesn't even make sense in 99% of the possible redcliffe scenario i already explained why),in both she is OOC=Out of character just a pitiful character.

[Secret Rare]

@Qis sorry but i just think that suggest the killing of others or to sold them on slavery when they are guilt of nothing

(Even if they are not parents,no need to play a city elf to do the right thing) is just evil,and whoever try to find justification to this isn't' so sane for my standard.

 

yup like that moron of Loghain who i spared for the archdemon not before to adress him for his crimes.

[Secret Rare]

German Soldier, The only time Morrigan has left the group was in my first two games is when I refused to do the DR other then that she was by my side during  the AD battle in the last 11 play throughs.

 

 

If you completed the game 2 times   without her this is just proof that she is not necessary,i killed the dragon without her and without allow the old god to survive.

[Illegitimus]

If you completed the game 2 times   without her this is just proof that she is not necessary,i killed the dragon without her and without allow the old god to survive.

 

Nobody was claiming that she was "necessary", (after you reach Lothering).  I do however claim that it's wrong to kill when you can save.  

[Tidus]

Secrete Rare, That's correct but,a good mage can be handy during the battle of the Alienage because of that  pesky  darkspawn mage with the knockback spell..

[Qis]

@Secret Rare

 

In medieval time everything is defined by justifications, what is good and what is bad is depoend on justification. For example the Crusades, you guys today might have own thoughts about Crusades, but in medieval time it is a right thing to do, taking arms and march against infidels to free the Holy Land. You today can say it is all religious BS seeking justification to invade someone else country for wealth and power, but peoples in medieval time didn't say so, they see it as holy and good thing to do.

 

I already said before that every choices in this game have own justifications, it is not a matter of right and worng but how you justify your action. As you see my justifications to choose what you call as evil choices, you did the same in justifying the choices you made. It is all about how you justify it.

 

To say Morrigan is evil because the way she see things differently is short sighted and judgmental. Morrigan never do any evil act, it is you who make choices, she may like it and she may not, but she's not the one who decde. So are you judging people by their views on things and by their agreement and disagreements?

 

Is Sten evil because he agree most of what Morrigan agree with?

[Qis]

 

This whole post is just a contrived justification to senseless cruelty and suffering which is what often Morrigan suggest alias she was stupid evil in DAO,just as this post.

Point by Point:

 

1)Pointless explanation full of stupidity to try to justify Morrigan,sorry but you are alone here.

Just because you don't know someone this doesn't mean that you are allowed to go full genocide mode and then try to justify you by saying "i couldn't trust them so i killed them all" that's insane beyond any level that i can fathom.

The werewolves are little if nothing capable to control themselves,they are dangerous beasts who carry a mortal disease,whoever get infected by them become one of them or die.

Put in the same camp dangerous and infectious beasts is stupid beyond any level,the Warden army isn't more strong with werewolves is just more unstable.

What will think the others department such as the dwarves,the mages,the soldiers of Redcliffe of the werewolves during the battle?

Why they should trust dangerous and infectious beasts,who carry a disease poisonous as the taint?

A General and a commander like the warden must thank to these things,balance is necessary for coordination and power effectiveness.

Morrigan is stupid she is not capable to think on "long term" benefit this is why she suggest only the "immediate gain" without think to the consequences,this is the same stupid mistake she did with the ritual,underestimate her mother who she knew one day would come back to gain the price.

This choice and i think most will agree with me, is on a right/wrong binary,there is no grey here,help both by reediming Zathrian is the absolutly best choice.

Help only the Dalish is the 2nd best choice,help those beasts guided by a dangerous spirit is the worst choice,the stupid choice that only AListair in the darkspawn chronicles Dlc did,probably because he is not a good comunicator and he doesn't know on how to understand and talk with people and he didn't discover Zathrian's past and suffering.

THis is way the Warden is always the best,capable to understand others and made the better decision.

 

2)The only party members who suggest to abandon Redcliffe are:

Sten because he is not from Thedas and he doesn't care about the fate of Theodosian,but then again i have a low opinion and don't give a #### of someone who murdered an entire family who was only guilty of helping him to not die.

Stupid Morrigan as well.

Help redcliffe provide a series of advantage,there is the possibility to obtain more proofs against Loghain at the tavern one of his letters,there is the possibility for the Warden to improve his/her ability as a commander,a test to improve personal capacity of coordination of a small army,there is the possibility to gain more allies more soldiers for teh army (the villages as well as some knights) there is the possibility to gain more resources and to become more popular for the landsmeet.

Pretty much there is only to gain here,Morrigan who obviously doesn't know how things works in the outside world and is only concerned about the OGB toy doesn't care.

Then again i couldn't care less of her stupidity she is not a tactical mind and neither she is practical..

 

3) Again stupid choice corroborated by a contrived thoughts who use disadvantageous condition which are not mandatory in order to justify the sacrifice of the mother of a child.

I will talk from the worst possible scenario in order to lock that stupid way of thinking which is

go to Redcliffe and met Connor before to do teh circle quest.

Again the intelligent solution is to go to the circle of mages.

a) The Warden who is not a moron already know that the circle is in a bad situation since that there are rumors pretty much everyone about demons rampaging on the tower yet this si the intelligent solution,go to them instead to kill Isolde.

Why?

First sooner or later you need to do the circle quest regardless so is not even an extra effort,second you do not have any time limit to do that,the Warden do not have to care about Connor in redcliffe,is something will go wrong in the castle before of teh Warden arrival,there already the Knights as well as many other soldier in the castle who can kill Connor as soon as he show some sign of possession.

Then again if instead to listen to whatever Morrigan as to say you bother to gain information,more accurate informations the warden can go and speak to Connor,to understand that the demon or "lady" inside of him remain dormant in him if the boy is not threatened,she will only come if the boy is in danger.

So the deomn is not always capable to understand what's going on in the mortal realm,she only percieve the boy feeling,the more Connor is in his serenity the less chance the demon will come.

in DAI if the demon remained inside of him it remain dormant for 10 years,this proof that the demon is danger especially when you harm the child.

Kill the mother or the child without not even attempt to gain the lyrium first is the evil and  stupid chice end of teh story,from all possible scenario or pointeview.

 

4)

if they can give you power, why not? Their death will not be wasted.

4)As actually anyone beyond me read this line from this user,are you serious or is this a joke?

First,who are you to decide what is worth to sacrifice for your own ends?

This is absolutely and unequivocally evil,exactly what that shrew of Morrigan suggested.

First you are trusting a mage that tried to kill you in his last attempt to survive after the crime that he committed,he try to save his ass by sacrifice the life of others,he need to learn that in Ferelden we don't want evil slavers.

Caladrius which was injured by the warden was not capable to perform any effective magic ashe even say,he will use his last strength,meaning that the magic is useless and with poor effective +1 Constitution.

For 1 constitution you are trying to justify the murdering of all of those people?

Are we fuc**** serious?

Sometime i don't even even understand as for why people want to justify what is evil and try to protrait it as a different thing...

 

 

5)That's just show on how incompetent you are about the characters.

Wynne isn't pro chantry as she said many times in banter with leliana,and she don't even believe that Andraste is a prophet,just an historical figure.

And kill people just because their lifestyle doesn't fit with your view of life is folly and whoever think like that need only to be put in straitjacket.

Seriously Morrigan suggest to kill those mages because she,and only she see them as not worthy to live,that's insane and whoever agree with her is insane too.

Also No need to find convoluted excuses here,she is a walking contradiction,first she want to see the mages dead for her bitterness then complain with Gregoir if this is done,she is stupid evil and doesn't even know what she want.

 

6)Again preserve the anvil is the evil and stupid choice.

First his creator Caridin want that destroyed he understand it better than anyone

second Branka is an insane woman who betrayed her whole army by using them as bait for Caradin's traps who betrayed her friend into becoming a broodmother,and yet only a moron will trust her with the anvil of the void who is used also to enslave the will of others,this is evil and stupid.

Let us not forget that in order to defeat a blight make to may sacrifice and stupid choices will come back to bite you in the future,kinda like what the stupid wardens of the 4th blight did,they killed their own griffins in order to defeat the 4th blight and now they are gone.

Sorry but i believe that "the ends justify the means" is just the convoluted excuses used by losers.

Preserve the anvil and you will be no better than a genlock ,enslave the dwarves and you will be guilty to be responsible of slavery.

 

7)ah trust that shrew of Morrigan with an old god soul after all of her malicious suggestion? Never!

 

 

 

 

i. Is Zathrian evil or a hero? He let the curse for millenia, is he deserved to get redemption by simply ending the curse and die? He hate humans to the bones, you if not dalish only be tolerated there because you are a Grey Warden. The Dalish could kill you for no reason if you are other than Dalish. See Dalish Origin, it begin with you pointing your bow and arrow at some humans, you can kill them just like that...Dalish are not nice to outsiders especially human. They are not nice even toward City Elf, i have played City Elf and being treated like ****

 

We can see that werewolves have regain their mind, they can be reasoned with, they have their own leader the lady of the Forest. For how long they try to reasoned with the Dalish but being denied and killed. The real monster here is the Dalish, not the werewolves.

 

ii. Sten view things based on his belief in the Qun, for what happen to the village is demanded by the Qun. He don't share the same view as Morrigan. The village is pathethic, they cannot defend themselves and by right they should be left to crumble as demnded by the Qun. If they cannot defend themselves against undead how they want to defend against the Blight?

 

Saving the village didn't bring any advantage against Loghain whatsoever, yes this is metagame

 

iii. In that situation, if there is a solutio to end the problem fast, why not take it? There are more important things to do, the Blight is coming, we need to solve the problem as fast as we can. The mother is willingly to sacrifice herself, then do it. You don't know if the Circle will want to help or they are able to help at all, maybe the Templars will intervene and decide to kill Connor instead, you will never know. You don't know the Chantry policy and the Circle politic.

 

iv. You have no business with Tevinter, you are there just to seek evidence or whatever thing to against Loghain. You are not a slave liberator or a hero. So when the mage offer you something powerful, if you agree you get what you want anyway. You get what you are there for and you get power. Ofcourse if you are an Elf you have Elf sentiment, but you meet the Tevinter Elf before you fight Caladrius, she don't have the same sentiment as you...

 

v. Wynne is a Chantry tool, Morrigan is right calling her a cow. Circle mages who place themselves in such condition, and they accept their fate despite having all the power everyone can dreamed of. So their masters wish them death, why not just them? Clearly they are like cows, milked and when have disease, they are killed. What funny is the cow want to teach you about what is right and what is wrong.

 

Wynne is killed anyway in Asunder and the Circle purged, proving Morrigan is right

 

vi. Whatever Caridin is feeling is not important, whatever he struggle with is also not important, he's an ancient relic and he don't what is happening outside. Why he didn't go to the Assembly and ask all the Dwarves to destroy the Anvil? He trapped himself there for how long? That show that he is out of his mind, whatever he said cannot be taken seriously. And Dwarves believe him to be a legend anyway. If you return with the crown to the Assembly, what backing up your story? Carridin is an ancient legend and now he's gone, the anvil destroyed, what evidence to back up your story? Of course the game ignore that, but while making decision, the Warden might think about that.

 

v. I trust Morrigan than any of the companions

[Tidus]

Every one of your killings is needless even the humans at the beginning of the Dalish warden story. Speak to the keeper why the camp is leaving one of the reasons is the killing of the humans.

 

You can not justify being evil--unless you are under one of Morrigan's  spell taught to her by her mother..

 

 

In game14 Morrigan will die at Redcliff that way I won't need to listen to her evil ramblings.

[Qis]

But the killing is never seen as evil things to do, the Keeper only warn about human reaction, the point is you can kill the human as Dalish, you are not guilty of a crime whatsoever in Dalish law/culture.

[Tidus]

The Keeper was not happy about the needless killings for good reasons.. The killing of unarmed Shems could bring a all out attack against the clan or the King could send his Army to deal with the murderers of unarmed Ferelden citizens. You do have a option of chasing off the Shems and that's exactly what I do. 

 

Ever notice when playing as a Shem you are told to leave instead of being shot on sight as you approach the Dalish camp?

 

Did you know as keeper Lanaya  will become a peace maker and a voice of reasoning between Dalish and Shems?

 

You can be stone cold toward your enemies and  yet show compassion for the ones in need.

 

Even my Dalish warden gives a lost child a silver so he can buy food and this was after he killed some bandits for robbing the refugees.

[Qis]

What the Keeper feel on why you should not kill is  irrelevent in this issue, killing the shems is not an evil act, period. The Keeper herself said they can raid the whole village if they want, the issue she adressed is not about right and wrong, good and evil, but profit. She argue that killing those shems don't bring profit but could bring trouble, that's all.

 

Lanaya was a City Elf, so she have different view on things, not like the others. She even tell you her struggle to be the first because she's not originally a Dalish.

 

Your Warden decision is your own and with your own justifications, your Warden do not represent everyone in your Warden race/culture/religion

 

That's the main point of this game choices, it is not about right and wrong, good and evil, it is all about justifications.

[Tidus]

There is no justification for killing everybody in the game and that's the point. Why would your warden kill needlessly? Morrigan would have you do just that since she is a pure evil woman and she may be far more evil then her mother. Even Flemeth won't kill needlessly and she even warns the Templars that was send after her and Morrigan to leave before she was forced to kill them in self defense .

 

Did you know Alistair's real mother was a Elven mage from Orlais and not a palace servant?  Goldanna is Alister's half sister.

 

Did you know Leliana met the city warden's mother in Leliana's Story? 

 

Did you know Wynne has a son about the same age as the warden?

 

 I see DA:O in a different light.. The game can be seen as a beautiful follow up story of the blight that King Meric was warned about in "The Calling". Even DA:A makes better sense after reading "The Calling".

[Qis]

Who Morrigan ask you to kill needlessly? NONE. That is a baseless accusation. She never ask you to kill anybody, period.

 

You guys hate her just because you guys hate her...that's all.

[Tidus]

We see Morrigan for what she is.. A very self serving pure evil woman that lacks any compassion-not even for the warden. I figured that out in the first game I played.

 

Its not a matter of hate either because I use her in my games but,its just knowing what Morrigan really is under that beauty a very cruel and evil woman that cares about no one.

[Illegitimus]

There is no justification for killing everybody in the game and that's the point. Why would your warden kill needlessly? Morrigan would have you do just that since she is a pure evil woman and she may be far more evil then her mother. Even Flemeth won't kill needlessly 

 

I believe the Chasind men she takes as lovers may disagree on that score.  Or at least their ghosts.  

[Tidus]

lllegitimus, That came from Morrigan to Leliana and we just know how much those two love each other..    Pass the salt Please!

 

After this discussion I'm not sure if I will use Morrigan beyond Redcliff.

[Secret Rare]

Nobody was claiming that she was "necessary", (after you reach Lothering).  I do however claim that it's wrong to kill when you can save.  

Yes but save who? The old god?

I don't even know what i'm saving and to what end.

Plus Morrigan don't tell to the warden why she want the soul,for all i know she may have planned with her mother something that she didn't want to tell me,   at redclieffe,like consuming the child or absorb the soul for herself by using the infant as a tool,

Spoiler

and ironically that's not even far from the truth since is more or less what Flemeth did.

They don't tell me why they want this,they gain nothing from me,  because they proved to be insane at multiple times both Morrigan and sometime FLemth too,because come on send you only daughter to risk her life just to bang some strangers to save a lizard is crazy

[Secret Rare]

 

 

To say Morrigan is evil because the way she see things differently is short sighted and judgmental. Morrigan never do any evil act, it is you who make choices, she may like it and she may not, but she's not the one who decde. So are you judging people by their views on things and by their agreement and disagreements?

 

Is Sten evil because he agree most of what Morrigan agree with?

1)If someone is insane like Morrigan was ,this doesn't make me "short sighted" because i'm not insane like her.

yes in order to have the same view point of her one need to have some serious issues,exactly like her who was raised in that swamp by an abomination.

2)Sten is monster end of the story,anyone who is a cyborg under the Qun has serious issues,especially those who kill child and families because "they lost their sword",what a pathetic excuse

can't you just find another one?

No of course not because that sword (which wwas not even so impressive) was like a soul for him,was special....

This is way he is insane and stupid like a child he lost his favourite sword so he killed all those people,i cannot think of someone more insane than Sten really.

Yes i want to open a tpic about sten to see what others think of him.

[Qis]

 

1)If someone is insane like Morrigan was ,this doesn't make me "short sighted" because i'm not insane like her.

yes in order to have the same view point of her one need to have some serious issues,exactly like her who was raised in that swamp by an abomination.

2)Sten is monster end of the story,anyone who is a cyborg under the Qun has serious issues,especially those who kill child and families because "they lost their sword",what a pathetic excuse

can't you just find another one?

No of course not because that sword (which wwas not even so impressive) was like a soul for him,was special....

This is way he is insane and stupid like a child he lost his favourite sword so he killed all those people,i cannot think of someone more insane than Sten really.

Yes i want to open a tpic about sten to see what others think of him.

 

 

Is your Warden not insane? The Warden may come from traumatic life like being thug in Orzamar, got banished to the Deep Road, all family member killed, wedding got cancelled and nearly got raped, being tainted by mirror, and living in prison tower only to be fed by the Fade demon....the Warden is no dfference with Morrigan on that matter to be insane...

 

I don't like Sten, but i don't see him evil. He's just out of place, Ferelden is not his country, he from a different culture. He is willingly to die for his crime, and he regret his crime, he don't eat for two weeks... it is The Warden who release him remember? So when The Warden release him, he just assume his role as the Antaam, a spy...if you want to put blame, blame it on your Warden, not him

[Tidus]

Qis,My warden went through the same starts but, none of them become criminally  insane and kill everybody they see. As I mention they are stone cold toward their enemies but, still show passion to those in need.

[Secret Rare]

Is your Warden not insane? The Warden may come from traumatic life like being thug in Orzamar, got banished to the Deep Road, all family member killed, wedding got cancelled and nearly got raped, being tainted by mirror, and living in prison tower only to be fed by the Fade demon....the Warden is no dfference with Morrigan on that matter to be insane...

 

I don't like Sten, but i don't see him evil. He's just out of place, Ferelden is not his country, he from a different culture. He is willingly to die for his crime, and he regret his crime, he don't eat for two weeks... it is The Warden who release him remember? So when The Warden release him, he just assume his role as the Antaam, a spy...if you want to put blame, blame it on your Warden, not him

Be from a traumatic scenario doesn't have to transform me into an insane monster.

Compared to all the Warden origins Morrigan's life was flowers and roses,being raised and protected by Flemeth and live a relatively peaceful life,while spent most of her time with animals,that was more a boring life rather than a traumatic one,this is also what she said in her dialogue that her life was more boring than dangerous,all in all some stupid templar hunters were not a trouble for Flemeth..

Human noble,city elf,Dwarf commoner,Dwarf noble ecc.

each of them had a worst and traumatic moments than Morrigan  , so i don't understand as for why i must let her insanity pass freely,Flemeth is not so insane,she doesn't suggest the death of others for amusement and even comment on it like Morrigan does.