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Why Morrigan?


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#126
Tidus

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Illegitimus,Allow me to pick up on this.. That happen to me in the 8th play through and it seems Morrigan  realizes she has a feeling  she has never felt before- love and she doesn't know how to handle it since its against everything Flemeth has taught her and she feels weak  and I dare say she may even be frighten of it.

 

Here's the thing that bugs me.. In every game Morrigan get jealous when my warden starts wooing Leliana and at one point during the banter between Morrigan and Leliana  it sounds like they are about to square off and have a go at it even though Morrigan made it very clear she did not want to impose upon my warden's independence and he should be aware of that or they could end their "misadventure".

 

My personal thought.

 

I have  wondered if Morrigan hates Leliana because of her religious views or is it because  Leliana is something Morrigan hates or maybe  longing  to be.. A woman capable of love and caring and yet when that chance comes she's frighten of it and asks the warden to dump her.


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#127
Vlada47

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Might be combination of all of those things. The way I saw it, when she was explaining how things will work between her and the Warden, you have freedom in that you can go after whatever girl you wish, you just have to explicitly end the relationship with her... Basically she won't stop you if you go elsewhere, but you have to let her know that you are ending it with her, not go after Leliana without sorting this out. Believe it or not, even relationships should have some order and some clear rules.



#128
Tidus

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Vlada47,What you say is very true and I would do so in real life but, ahem! I kinda enjoy the banter between Morrigan and Leliana  since both give as much as they take in these battles of words.. :lol:   As we know there is no love between those two. :(

 

Does Morrigan like anybody in the group besides the   GW? :unsure:



#129
Vlada47

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Morrigan and Leliana come from polar opposites, they both represent pretty much what the other girl hates/fears, so it's kinda unlikely they would like each other. I agree that the banter between them is really spicy if your Warden tries to romance both of them at the same, so it may be a reason game-wise to do this.  :D

 

And Morrigan liking others? You can pretty much tell, she sort of gets along with members that are more on the practical side of things. She initiates conversations with Sten not in a way like for example Alistair, you can tell she is a little curious about the qunari. From what I heard in the game, she is at OK status with Shale and despite her conversation in the camp with the dog, she's also fine with him being around (she even feeds him, when he starts to beg for food during one banter)... at the end of Witch Hunt she even seemed glad to see him. Others not really, no. 



#130
Aren

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This is weird. This seemed like a different character to me from the Morrigan I knew I my playthrough. 

Indeed i had the same impression.
The comic is a later addiction that doesn't imho paint properly Morrigan in Redcliffe.
It doesn't work in 90% of scenario of Redclieffe,but only one in a very questionable way.


#131
Illegitimus

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Illegitimus,Allow me to pick up on this.. That happen to me in the 8th play through and it seems Morrigan  realizes she has a feeling  she has never felt before- love and she doesn't know how to handle it since its against everything Flemeth has taught her and she feels weak  and I dare say she may even be frighten of it.

 

Here's the thing that bugs me.. In every game Morrigan get jealous when my warden starts wooing Leliana and at one point during the banter between Morrigan and Leliana  it sounds like they are about to square off and have a go at it even though Morrigan made it very clear she did not want to impose upon my warden's independence and he should be aware of that or they could end their "misadventure".

 

My personal thought.

 

I have  wondered if Morrigan hates Leliana because of her religious views or is it because  Leliana is something Morrigan hates or maybe  longing  to be.. A woman capable of love and caring and yet when that chance comes she's frighten of it and asks the warden to dump her.

 

There's no mystery there.  Morrigan is just driven by conflicting desires.  She "knows" that anything she has with the Warden is doomed to end fairly soon.  She fancies at the start that she can make it painless by making it just good sport, but would find it humiliating to become part of a harem.  She doesn't want a commitment she'll inevitably break but she wants to be special for as long as it lasts.  She doesn't want to admit it when she's fallen in love because her mother has taught her that love is weakness and folly but will contentedly adore you as you don't force her to say it or tell you that you love her.  



#132
mistermutiny1989

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Morrigan hides these facts on purpose in which the outcome of my play through could bleed through all the way into Dragon Age 4 for all I know.

I won't give away anything too big but I'll say that Flemeth.. Morrigan's mother is a very big and very old cog in the wheel that is Dragon Age lore and Morrigan's original purpose for joining lay with Flemeth's orders and master plan which if the sacrifice never happened and Morrigan's ritual is performed would see Flemeth in a way control an Old God.
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#133
Aren

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@mistermutiny i share your opinion she hide this on purpose,to   better suit her plans.
 
Finally i decided to complete this Dlc for the first time with my canon warden, despite the fact that there was literally no reason for me to pursue Morrigan
(she was auto dumped at Redcliffe,i wasn't there to give to her a reward for her efforts as the king of Ferelden,cause she did nothing at Denerim)
So when she asked of why my warden king was there,i picked the only valid Rp option for my warden (which was absolutely amazing to annoy her ) which was satisfaction,the satisfaction to have defeated the Archdemon (even the mother and or the Architect for all that matter) without never relying on her or her ritual.
I concluded that Dlc in my style

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#134
Secret Rare

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Morrigan hides these facts on purpose in which the outcome of my play through could bleed through all the way into Dragon Age 4 for all I know.

 

She withholds information on purpose in order to use the Warden and when i refused and stand up for the world, she run away.
Everything that her fans said in this topic and the others to justify her doesn't make much sense to me.


#135
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Gonna leave ya'll with a quote I feel fits some wardens:

 

"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."

Spare me Nietzsche.
Even if  the abyss should lie before me, I will march straight ahead without looking back.
 

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#136
Aren

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Even if  the abyss should lie before me, I will march straight ahead without looking back.
 

 

Well,personally i dislike her like few characters ever,but the anger of this post is very deep,never thought that someone could come to that,but however i still think that somehow the developers gave to us the possibility to take revenge.
For my new game i think that due to Metagame i will dismiss her immediately at Lothering,she will not even exist in my world state from now on aside from her annoying return at Redcliffe as you said and mandatory DAI ,......auch oh well... i guess that i have to suffer a bit


#137
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For my new game i think that due to Metagame
I play games only once so i don't use metagame,but had the game provide the possibility to realize what Morrigan intended to do from the start,i would have dumped her immediately


#138
Tidus

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Secrete Rare,I'm not a big fan of Morrigan but,she is needed as a combat mage. I also do the DR simply because (looking through my character eyes)  I don't think my city elf would throw his/her life away to save Shems since they have abused and killed his/her kind for centuries and the only reason he/she is a warden is because he/she killed a Arl's son after raping her/his cousin and was conscripted by Duncan -both of my characters wanted to find the Dalish instead of becoming a GW.. Nor is my female elf  stupid enough to believe Ferelden would accept a elf as queen.

 

As far as Alistair..What can I say?  He's not the brightest light bulb in the building and he can't see beyond the GW brainwashing and how hopeless the situation is.

 

I do feel sorry for Alistair.. He's been mislead to believe his mother was a servant  when in all truth she was a elf mage that King Meric had a affair with -see "The Calling" Dragon Age  book.

 

As a side note.When a shem and elf have a child the child looses their elven features and this is why elven/shem relationships is frown on by the elves in general...  Again see "The Calling".



#139
Secret Rare

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Secrete Rare,I'm not a big fan of Morrigan but,she is needed as a combat mage. I also do the DR simply because (looking through my character eyes)  I don't think my city elf would throw his/her life away to save Shems since they have abused and killed his/her kind for centuries and the only reason he/she is a warden is because he/she killed a Arl's son after raping her/his cousin and was conscripted by Duncan -both of my characters wanted to find the Dalish instead of becoming a GW.. Nor is my female elf  stupid enough to believe Ferelden would accept a elf as queen.

 

 

The Warden  don't need her since it's one of the most powerful skilled person of the DA supported by valid companions,she isn't vital


#140
Vlada47

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Even if  the abyss should lie before me, I will march straight ahead without looking back.
Immense is my hate,this is the Abyss Sylvanaerie i will fall into the deepest darkness of it if this  means to let Morrigan fear me, untill
I will have my Vengeance.
This amv dedicated to Gon capture my Warden and my hate towards Morrigan,and the power that gives is magnificent.
Don't joke ever again, with this immense hate that i carry,now you know on how intense it is
 

 

 

 

Umm, do you really mean it? If so, then...  :lol:

 

On more serious note, it's weird, how you claim all those Morrigan fans just don't make any sense and then you come out with something like this.  :)



#141
Tidus

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Secret Rare, That's cool and I can understand that since my male elf only trusts the shem he loves-Leliana.. To my female elf Leliana is her BFF.

 

As I mention elsewhere my elf is not as forgiving. Let's look through my elf warden eyes and see what they see.

 

While building a army to fight the blight  and save Ferelden my warden learns  he is branded a traitor, has a bounty on his head, had a hired assassin on his trail, a knight wanted to kill him,learned  the shems purge the Alienage and upon his/her visitation to see what the problem was in the Alienage he/she finds the elves is being taken by slavers and to top that off in the battle of Demerim they wanted to write the Alienage off because the elves was a lost cause.

 

And now they want him/her to die by making the fatal blow on the AD?    

 

The biggest worry my female elf has since she broke up with Alistair is, can she con him into doing the DR? Ok.. That's my elf's private thought that's not in the story. :lol:



#142
Aren

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But the worst offence is,as fan of the franchise who use to buy also related books,the fact that i have to suffer her presence again,and again and again and again in this franchise,even suffer her as the narrator in DAI.

I don’t like her, but I like the idea of her, that they put such a rotten person in your party.

Still, her dialogue was some of the most frustrating writing I’ve ever seen in a game, almost every question goes along the lines of ...

“What’s your name?”

“Ah, but what is a name? Tis a silly human construction, used to label that which they don’t understand, you know me as a witch of the wilds, an apostate, an abomination, and Morrigan. Call me what you will”

OHMYGODSHUTUPMORRIGAN!

 

Yep, it's like a stupid 15-year-old that thinks they're deep. It was pretty unbearable. It'd be great if she was written as a try-hard teenager who thinks they're clever and "get it", but no - she's meant to be an adult with a unique perspective on the world.

 

 

Can't stop laughing,this is supposed to be a complex character?

this is more likely what i will define as a mess of a mental state

 

 

@ One thing only don't touch Neferpitou she is my Li,it's a shame that she is not of Thedas


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#143
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On more serious note, it's weird, how you claim all those Morrigan fans just don't make any sense and then you come out with something like this.  :)

The process of delving into the black abyss is to me the keenest form of fascination.
So i would take the abyss as a compliment


#144
Tidus

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Aren, That about sums Morrigan up.. :lol:

 

I have a love/hate relationship with Morrigan.. I love her powers as a mage once she starts leveling up and skills are added.. I hate the way she runs her  motor mouth. When I'm playing as a mage she stays in camp once Wynne  joins. but, I'm not all that crazy about Miss Self Righteous and her constant "You have responsibilities" and her therefore you can't have natural feelings because everybody comes before you..

 

I better shut up before I get off on Wynne and get way off topic.  No wonder my poor female elf says she needs a drink.



#145
Aren

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Aren, That about sums Morrigan up.. :lol:

 

I have a love/hate relationship with Morrigan.. I love her powers as a mage once she starts leveling up and skills are added.. I hate the way she runs her  motor mouth. When I'm playing as a mage she stays in camp once Wynne  joins. but, I'm not all that crazy about Miss Self Righteous and her constant "You have responsibilities" and her therefore you can't have natural feelings because everybody comes before you..

 

I better shut up before I get off on Wynne and get way off topic.  No wonder my poor female elf says she needs a drink.

Aside from Shale and Dog  ,Companions of DAO   tend to be too heavily slanted towards 'This is the characters who embodies X issue' and end up feeling very one note after a while.



#146
Vlada47

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The process of delving into the black abyss is to me the keenest form of fascination.
Speaking of the abyss that amv show exactly on how serious the matter is for  both my Warden and myself.
Since here in the forum i often saw this kind of approach, of people who continue to laughing and be judgmental when it is not the case.
I hate Morrigan,her character and everything that is related to her and tha amv capture those sentiments,to just use some frivolous face smile like you used to address my post, isn't the way in which i take things.
If you wish to joke don't do it with me or my posts and i'm done here.
i'm not in here to take into consideration people who want to analyze my psyche like some kind of psychologists .
As i said neither of those fans used facts just their vision on her behaviour
Facts>of your  psycho mental construction
On more serious note goodbye

 

 

No, no... what was funny to me was the amount of say... mental effort you put into the hate of a non-existent character (you mention, how you can't stand her in any Dragon Age title, be it a game or a book, or just her being there). How do you put up with some real person you hate for some reason (like schoolmate or co-worker for example)?  :)

 

From those last posts you made here it really seems to me that you base your interactions with Morrigan on your hate of her as a person, not on a solid reason. Plus it seems like you're more focused on philosophical implications (all that talk about the "Abyss" and what not) rather than practical ones (what would really happen). Therefore it's weird to me that you say about people, who defend Morrigan to some degree, they use some psycho-mental construction instead of logical facts (they might be, but you're doing the same here).



#147
Secret Rare

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From those last posts you made here it really seems to me that you base your interactions with Morrigan on your hate of her as a person, not on a solid reason. Plus it seems like you're more focused on philosophical implications (all that talk about the "Abyss" and what not) rather than practical ones (what would really happen). Therefore it's weird to me that you say about people, who defend Morrigan to some degree, they use some psycho-mental construction instead of logical facts (they might be, but you're doing the same here).

nvm


#148
Aren

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he was portraying Morrigan as a non manipulative when she try to use your companion as a potential tools to convince you,and as Sylvanerie said,The Warden is not stupid the protagonist do not need that she remind to them that their life is in danger or that others may suffer for the protagonist death,but the way in which she continue to act,as if she is the one who knows things better than anyone,then leave and tell to you to live in regret ,and after all of this, (Andy candy,candy which is a fanboy) keep continue to say that she is not using manipulation
no matter


#149
Tidus

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Morrigan is self centered, dishonest  and wants the OGC for herself, we know that we according to the story line.

 

However, performing the DR is left up to the player and that choice is simple.. Do you want your warden to die or to live? Sure, you can allow that asp of a man Loghain to live and make the final blow but, I find that 's a very hard pill to swallow seeing all of the crimes he has committed and IMHO it would have been similar to allowing Hitler's henchmen to live regardless of  the crimes they committed.

 

At any rate we have to make the choice that fits our personal views and the way we want the story (game) to end.

 

My ending is simple..My elf will not sacrifice his/her life nor will he/she allow Loghain  to live due to his many crimes.

 

Besides that's the best ending for Morrigan's continuing story especially in DA:I where we finally meet this OGC..



#150
Aren

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Morrigan is self centered, dishonest  and wants the OGC for herself, we know that we according to the story line.

 

However, performing the DR is left up to the player and that choice is simple.. Do you want your warden to die or to live? Sure, you can allow that asp of a man Loghain to live and make the final blow but, I find that 's a very hard pill to swallow seeing all of the crimes he has committed and IMHO it would have been similar to allowing Hitler's henchmen to live regardless of  the crimes they committed.

 

At any rate we have to make the choice that fits our personal views and the way we want the story (game) to end.

 

My ending is simple..My elf will not sacrifice his/her life nor will he/she allow Loghain  to live due to his many crimes.

 

Besides that's the best ending for Morrigan's continuing story especially in DA:I where we finally meet this OGC..


Let Loghain join isn't moronic, is what a character who live under the Warden philosophy would do.
Let Loghain live was the best and intelligent decision that i could have made,in totally resonance of the belief of the GW and an immensely rewarded trust over Riordan.
As for th life vs death argument it doesn't work with me because it's not tempting at all,the ritual has nothing to offer to me
not even a strategic advantage since Gaider confirmed that with it or not a GW is the only one who can negate to the AD to rebirth,it is an help for the old god not for me.
Morrigan may well believe the ritual does what she says it does, but the idea comes from Flemeth.
 And if you are not a mage, you are in no position to judge whether or not Morrigan is a particularly good mage.
 I am saying precisely because you have no idea whether or not it will work, and the fact that if it does you have just saved the essence of something that could cause a blight again, there is not much temptation.
 
Recall, our argument is how strong the temptation of the dark ritual is if all it does is save the life of the Grey Warden if the Grey Warden lands the final blow. 
And I am arguing it is very weak. 
 
I think taking anyone at face value wihout any basic understanding of what they do is stupid.
I'm not a doctor, but I have studied enough biology and chemistry can I can double check if my doctor is a quack. 
It is just absurd to make a choice on an area of expertiese taking someone whose competence you can't judge at face value. 
 
A Fair point about planning to kill her after, however. To that, though, I would simply have to say that my meta-game knowledge prevents me from considering it, since the game plays it straight that you let her get away and I don't write fan fictions. 
I would think it doesn't matter what Morrigan says. Even if you trust her, it's a matter of competence. 
I trust my best friend, but if tells me about how we could build a nuke toghether, I'm not inclined to listen to someone who's closest experience with science was a first year seminar.
 
Even if Morrigan is the sweetest angel on the planet that could not tell a lie and only wants puppies and flowers for everyone, she could very well be wrong. 
At the least she is asking you to save an old god, which according to someone ( the chantry and also Solas) is a false god.
 
So we've got two levels of blasphemy in the ritual: blood magic and saving an old god. 
 
What I am saying is as the player, you know nothing about what Morrigan is offering. Even if you are a mage, you have no understanding and no one of understanding the process. 
You are shooting blind. 
If you have Alistair (assuming that you as a male elf don't care about his fate or of Ferelden or about humans) There is a very reasonable chance that Alistair does not die, since you've overcome an insane amount of obstacles. 
You could have killed two dragons, a pride demon, a super-golem, a broodmother, not to mention effectively an army of soldiers, werewolves and darkspawn plus enough abominations to put the templars to shame.
 
Basically, if you suppose you as the Warden has awesome odds to survive, you have to suppose the same applies to Alistair. 
And if you think Alistair has a huge chance to die, then so do you.
 
So what I am saying is that her actual potential payoff is only if you are left alone, and the odds of that mattering are astronomicaly low in either possible case. 
What I am saying is simple: Alistair has no more of a risk to die than the Warden. If the risk for Alistair dying is enormous, it is the same for the Warden. So the dark ritual in that case is nothing but for the special scenario where the Warden lives and Alistair dies, which is incredibly unlikely beacuse all signs point to both dying. And if the odds of the Warden living are high, then the chance of Alistair doing the same is higher.
 
question
[ Morrigan argues that even if Riordan/Alistair/Loghain has agreed to take the final blow, it could still fall to your character. She approaches it purely from the angle of avoiding death in the event that you have to slay the Archdemon.]
 
response
But that's a stupid argument - you could very well get an arrow through the throat at the gate. It makes it no more likely you'd survive at all.
 
Effectively, if there is no payoff of true freedom, suddenly the relative cost of th dark ritual increases [b]enormously[.b], and in my view that relative risk is what acts to destroy the temptation.
The DR isn't give to you a benefit,it's a benefit for the Old god.
 You could have made Alistair King because you prefer him to Anora, which is very different.
 And it does not have to be Alistair; it could be Loghain. 
They are simply your spare Grey Warden. 
 
More importantly, there is a difference between caring about Alistair/Loghain and caring about Alistair/Loghain enough do die for them or summon Cthulhu.
I don't care about neither of them and for certain i will not revive an old god to save them.
 
 It only matters how likely you think your spare is to live relative to how likely you think the ritual is dangerous.
 And I am saying that the degree of temptation falls dramatically if the only thing that it does is remove your worry of your spare dying at the cost of saving the life of the false god.
 
Because seriously, this is what Morrigan is asking you to do: save the the false god life. 
If Hespith was one of the last 3 living beings that could become brood mothers, saving her untained soul isn't quite the good deed. 
We don't know whether or not the old god could return as an archdemon again. 
That is a risk that you are taking with the ritual, provided it does what it is designed to do (which ironically from DAI,it wasn't it's function was to spare the soul so that it could reach Mythal later).
As for Morrigan arch story for DAI,i don't really care since i never find her to be an intreasting character,and neither is Kieran given the fact that he was just a plot device,Solas arch was more entertaining for me.