245 réponses à ce sujet

[Tidus]

Illegitimus, Morrigan does try  to intimidate the warden candidates but, by using the other answers you can show her you are not afraid-unlike  Daveth and Jory that shows their fear.. She may even been a tad frighten of you since she watched your journey through the wilds.This will come out later in the game.

[Tidus]

Aren, Morrigan is only evil if the warden goes on a killing spree by killing everybody or if he or she agrees to use Jowan's blood magic.

 

My warden is in full charge and won't kill without just reasons this make Morrigan helpless because she can't do those evil deeds. solo..She can suggest to do evil until the chickens come to roost and she can disarove until the cows come home and that means very little to my warden.. 

[Aren]

 

 

I was really tempted to keep the Anvil, because imagine the potential of golem army against the Darkspawn, but I wasn't convinced Branka or any of the dwarves currently in power would use it sensibly. Sacrificing Isolde would be my choice, if I couldn't get to the Tower and bring the magi, she had a pretty big part in what happened there and she agreed on the blood ritual, so pretty viable solution in my book. Some other stuff... well I think Morrigan is looking for a easy way out of things... my Warden would probably always want to go extra way to spare as many people as he can, but I won't blame her for thinking that way.

Morrigan advices doesn't make sense because she is not capable to see the long term benefit (she would be a bad investor really lol),as you said for the anvil of the void,the only way to use it is to trust Branka,which is a mad woman or Bhelen which is also not so trustworthy or Harrowmont which is no better than Bhelen.

The rule of DAO is that the good choice is also the smartest one in the long run,destroy the anvil and you not only will help many casteless dwarves who will not be enslaved to it,but also prevent everything from Branka,Bhelen or Harrowmont.

As for Isolde German soldier already answered,the smartest choice is the potential good one,you try with the lyrium but in the meantime a part o f your member will be with Tegan and Isolde,if Connor will go full crazy mode he will be killed o Isolde will be used,otherwise you use lyrium,why waste a life if you can resolve thing just with a travel mmmmmm fresh air is always good no?

Werewolves also a dangerous they can potentially infect your entire party if one of them will go crazy,and you will basically become one of them,and with Zathrian dead,no hope for salvation.

I blame Morrigan for being stupid,in this life the easy way out is often the less appropriate.

I will call the Warden as an invstor who prefer to see the long term benefit of the choice.

Also for the ritual don't do it and as benefit Flemeth didn't gain something.

Loghain spare him and as a benefit he is the sacrifice,is just an investment (Loghain isn't dangerous anymore when defeated he can't do anything he is just one man in oyur campwatched by all of your army,he is more like a prisoner really)

[Illegitimus]

 

 

As for Isolde German soldier already answered,the smartest choice is the potential good one,you try with the lyrium but in the meantime a part o f your member will be with Tegan and Isolde,if Connor will go full crazy mode he will be killed o Isolde will be used,otherwise you use lyrium,why waste a life if you can resolve thing just with a travel mmmmmm fresh air is always good no?

 

Honestly, the lyrium approach is really risky.  You can't count on the members you are in theory leaving behind to watch Connor, because the demon can control minds.  Killing Connor or Isolde is the prudent approach despite the game handing you a victory if you take the paragon approach.  

[Tidus]

lllegitimus, Back when I was new at playing DA:O I dreaded the fade so,I took the easy way out and killed Conner and felt bad about it each time due to  Isolde's emotional outburst and pleading  and after forcing a showdown between me and the fade I no longer need to kill Conner. The thought of using Jowan's blood magic with the need to kill Isolde never cross my mine as a good option.

 

Again my warden won't kill without just cause-well my mage warden does threaten to kill Jowan as soon as they meet but, that's a personal thing between my mage and Jowan for what happen at the tower..

[Vlada47]

German Soldier - I think my Warden can take being separated from his son (I can imagine worse trauma), when he decides to go search for him and Morrigan, he will go... I'm really not describing it from the point of meta-gaming. 

 

As for werewolves - valid point about the infection, but I still can't decide on who I would trust more - them or Dalish.

Isolde - yes, the Circle variant is best, but that's why I wrote "what if the option wasn't there". What would you choose in that situation? You either sacrifice Isolde or kill Conor... Isolde even suggest that sacrifice should be her (never got, why we couldn't butcher a cow there or something... blood is blood right?  ).

 

Also - thanks for all those spoilers from Inquisition...   Could you, please, put them in that "spoiler box" next time? I mean... we are still in Origins section of the forum, right?

[Tidus]

Vlada47, If the Circle wasn't a option.. My warden would elect to kill Conner since he/she doesn't trust Jowan...  My female mage might elect to kill Morrigan for the  needed lyrium. 

[Vlada47]

Eh? How killing Morrigan gives you lyrium?   

 

Hmm Loghain, Jowan... man, you see those enemies everywhere. 

[Aren]

Honestly, the lyrium approach is really risky.  You can't count on the members you are in theory leaving behind to watch Connor, because the demon can control minds.  Killing Connor or Isolde is the prudent approach despite the game handing you a victory if you take the paragon approach.  

It isn't, mages like Wynne can resist easly to the demon,also all the evidence point out that the demon act only when Connor is in danger,otherwise he is remain dormant.

[Tidus]

Vlada47,Jowan isn't a enemy, he's not just not trust worthy this is according to the possible questions you can select. Remember he lied about not being a blood mage in the Circle.

 

Remember?

 

My mage.. Are the rumors true about you being a blood mage?

 

Jowan: No..I was sneaking around to see Lilly and they may think that I am.

 

My poor trusting mage helps Jowan only to land in hot water for helping a blood mage escape.

 

 

 

The required Lyrium can be obtain through killing a person...So,why not Morrigan? .

[Aren]

Aren, Morrigan is only evil if the warden goes on a killing spree by killing everybody or if he or she agrees to use Jowan's blood magic.

 

 

It doesn't matter,the point is that her philosophy is just an excuse for pointless evil,that your warden is there to make a sort of leash on her does not change this.

When your warden is not present let's see what she did...

Deceive and stole a book from a clan(and in doing so endanger the life or Ariane who was forced to leave the clan to search this book),killed an elf to steal his legacy.....yeah 

[Tidus]

Morrigan stole that book after the group broke up and went their separate ways. My warden is more likely roaming around with Leliana  (that's my normal game finish) and could care less what Morrigan does. Zevran probably a hired assassin some where.

 

Give Morrigan some credit.. She waited and  return the book at the mirror before entering the mirror.. She could have easily entered the mirror with the book and disappeared...

 

The warden I use in WH is not the Hero of Ferelden. I suspect the Grays is looking for him due to the trouble at  Vigils Keep.

[Illegitimus]

It isn't, mages like Wynne can resist easly to the demon,also all the evidence point out that the demon act only when Connor is in danger,otherwise he is remain dormant.

 

...I must have missed the evidence that showed that the demon sent it's walking dead followers out to attack the village because Connor was in danger.  And that Morrigan and Wynne can allegedly resist mind control (well they probably can due to their high magic stat) doesn't mean the other companions and the knights can.  The knights that were behind at when the possession happened certainly couldn't and neither could Teagan.  Yes I rationalized my decision to go the paladin route by figuring that I was going to leave Morrigan and Alistair behind with instructions to kill the little monster if it looked like the demon was acting up again but it was still a big risk.  My character couldn't know that he wouldn't return to find the castle in flames and Connor having gone full abomination.  

[Akiza]

German Soldier - I think my Warden can take being separated from his son (I can imagine worse trauma), when he decides to go search for him and Morrigan, he will go... I'm really not describing it from the point of meta-gaming. 

 

 

 

This doesn't change the fact that she demands that you will never be able to see this child,that she saw you since the start just as tool for an end,an instrument, i don't know honestly what are your feeling about that,but i do not allow to anyone to use me or manipulate me.

that she changed her mind after some years does not disqualify this,she is just using the Warden,she didn't even told to the warden about the sacrifice on purpose,to put them in a more difficult situation.

As for Alistair or Loghain yes do the ritual is indeed worse than having to just cut a friendship or a romance just for the moment with Alistair (if Loghain is spared).

And only a contrived logic from a female warden who romanced him can say otherwise,in order to maintain this selfish romance you force him to have a child with a woman that he despise.

Basically Alistair or Loghain has to have a child out for profit,just to use him to preserve something that i will define as a monster,and make Alistair basically into a second Maric who created another bastard without not even having come to know him.

Worse is with loghain,since he despise flemeth and everything that is related to her from the book.

As for the Op question,Morrigan no telling the sacrifice is just because she want to play her cards close to her chest,and use at her advantage a critical situation.

 Also with Alistai and Loghain i did considered the DR as a form of rape,which many did (http://forum.bioware...gb-was-nothing/ first page last comment)

She inserted herself only for the OGB(if you refuse she leave),these are facts not stupid comics that

make her look like out of character.

I'm also not willing to listen or speak with people like those two(in the first page) who said that Morrigan is their favourite because they are inevitably  full of bias( called my perspective even as the one of a monster),i judge her simply for what she did and she suggested to do in game (which were mostly evil deeds).

As i said she witholds informatons to try to use the Warden better in a critical situation,i took revange on her for that,and she leaving with that contrived excuse

(i didn't want to see you die) just No,have at least the balls to admit that you leaved because you didn't care about the blight or anyone only about the OGB.

[Akiza]

 

Give Morrigan some credit.. She waited and  return the book at the mirror before entering the mirror.. She could have easily entered the mirror with the book and disappeared...

 

 

Of course that my canon warden, a dalish elf who already despise her for leaving before the battle and because of her lies will not let her pass this,steal from his people?

This is just the icing on the cake.

She give the book because there is no need for her to keep it anymore,she used it already,and let Ariane risks so many dangers just for that book that she stole with manipulation and deceiving?

Ya kinda like what she did with the Warden,she inserted herself among the dalish only to gain the book without their consent and the steal it.

Which credit should i give to her exactly? At being an honest thief? A thief still remain as a thief,not to mention that she waited for you also to try to use you against Flemeth and blabber about world changing events against people's wishes.

had she do something like you said my warden will have hunted her for the eternity,in Orlais to the emperess and beyond.

 

[Aren]

 

 

 

 Also with Alistair and Loghain i did considered the DR as a form of rape,which many did (http://forum.bioware...gb-was-nothing/ first page last comment)

 

That post was great,in it represent what i genuinely believe about the Dark ritual in that specific scenario,which is indeed what i was referring when i commented at first page but Sylvanerie didn't understood what i meant ,my bad expressing of words maybe

[Tidus]

Sorry ,but,with two willing partners  its hardly rape since rape is forced and ugly and I don't recollect anybody being forced--even when my female warden conned Alistair into doing the DR he seemed willing. 

 

Maybe my experience in my youth taught me a vital lesson in life and I see dying for nothing means very little and that's why I do the DR.

I just can't bring myself to have my warden to die for nothing when there's a way out..

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Akiza, I can understand when a Dalish warden goes after Morrigan but,the book wasn't the reason the warden was looking for Morrigan.. The book comes up after the warden meets Ariane at Flemeth's old hut and they agree to join forces to hunt for Morrigan..

 

In a way Ariane uses the warden to gain access to the Circle. She even talks more to a Shem Mage during their quest then her own kind and that includes the Hero of Ferelden if one imports their Dalish character from DA:O.

 

The city Elf warden isn't even recognized as the Hero of Ferelden in WH. What's with that?  

[Akiza]

Sorry ,but,with two willing partners  its hardly rape since rape is forced and ugly and I don't recollect anybody being forced--even when my female warden conned Alistair into doing the DR he seemed willing. 

 

Maybe my experience in my youth taught me a vital lesson in life and I see dying for nothing means very little and that's why I do the DR.

I just can't bring myself to have my warden to die for nothing when there's a way out..

-------------------------------------------------

 

Akiza, I can understand when a Dalish warden goes after Morrigan but,the book wasn't the reason the warden was looking for Morrigan.. The book comes up after the warden meets Ariane at Flemeth's old hut and they agree to join forces to hunt for Morrigan..

 

In a way Ariane uses the warden to gain access to the Circle. She even talks more to a Shem Mage during their quest then her own kind and that includes the Hero of Ferelden if one imports their Dalish character from DA:O.

 

The city Elf warden isn't even recognized as the Hero of Ferelden in WH. What's with that?  

I read my previous posts i was a little bit too harsh my apologies Tidus.

As for the Dalish,i know that there are many clans and some of them are not even strictly in contact with each other,but this is not the case,Morrigan stole that book from the Dalish clan who was close to the one of the Warden,Arianne mention the origin of the Dalish elf as well as Tamlen and the broken eluvian,because she know my clan and i'm metagaming (but that's not even metagame is just offscreen) that my clan was close to the one of Arianne,and so the whole book thing just is one of the things to add to the list for that character actions against Morrigan.

As for dying for nothing,it isn't if a GW dies the Old god souls is destroyed forever,and Solas (which is basically the one who will bring havoc to the world) will not gain any access to it.same for Flemeth who seek revenge against the Enavuris and no one knows what she intend to do.

So Kill that traitor of Loghain at the same time with the Archdemon was surprisingly good for me,i don't see that as redemption just used his life for my personal gain.

Like Sten said in a Banter to loghain

We Qunari always make our enemies to work for us,this was with Loghain,i saved his life and he became a servant of mine. 

[Tidus]

Akiza,No worries or apology needed.. Unless its a all out personal attack I never take things personally.

 

I only use Sten once in the game and that's on the way to get the anvil so,I have no idea of  all his banters..

 

My city elf will not allow Loghain to live because of his many crimes, he allowed his friends and family to be taken in slavery,for sending hired assassins to kill him/her. 

 

I should mention by this time my warden is fed up as I would be.. While raising a army to save Ferelden, my warden finds out the Alienage was purged, there was a price on his/her head,he/she is branded a traitor and finally learns about the slavery..

[Aren]

 

 

My city elf will not allow Loghain to live because of his many crimes, he allowed his friends and family to be taken in slavery,for sending hired assassins to kill him/her. 

 

I should mention by this time my warden is fed up as I would be.. While raising a army to save Ferelden, my warden finds out the Alienage was purged, there was a price on his/her head,he/she is branded a traitor and finally learns about the slavery..

Do you believe that a "normal death" in a fantasy setting is comparable to soul destruction?

Loghain redemption is an ending that works in both ways:

1) If you like his character you give to him a redemption

 2)If you want that he pays the greatest punishment,then soul destruction works better than a simple death

It's the darkest revange

[Tidus]

Aren,I just can't allow that asp of a man to live due to his crimes.

 

He is guilty of treason, allowing murder, slavery, acts against humanity, attempted murder of a Arl ,imprisoning the Queen of Ferelden, hiring assassins to kill the two remaining Grays, labeling them  as traitors so he can cover his act of treason, placing a bounty on their heads and not the least of his crimes causing the rebellion at the Tower of Magi that caused many needless deaths. 

 

If I wrote the story line Loghain would be beheaded in the city square just like he was going to do my warden,Alistair and Arl Eamon had we not fought back. Yes, I really messed up the first two land meets by not being strong enough in persuasion.

 

Another thing that bothers me is he will become a hero because he killed the arch demon or if he does the DR and lives and he may start a rebellion against King Alistair since he as already proven he can not be trusted.

 

I suspect my warden would need to keep looking back over his shoulder to ensure Loghain's henchmen  or hired assassins  isn't dogging his back trail or be forced into hiding with Leliana in Orlais or maybe Kirkwall.

[Akiza]

 

 

Another thing that bothers me is he will become a hero because he killed the arch demon or if he does the DR and lives and he may start a rebellion against King Alistair since he as already proven he can not be trusted.

 

 

Those are just the rumors of the DAO slides,which aren't canon,in DAI after the Redemption ending he is pretty much forgotten by everyone

(only a loyal ferelden soldier mention him,but this happen always regardless of the DAO ending)

The fact is that nobody know the way in which he died,for everyone he just dies because of the explosion or for injuries not because of a noble sacrifice,see the GW secrecy works on my behalf in this case,he is pretty much forgotten(and his soul even destroyed not in the fade),especially because lord Urthemiel unlike his siblings wasn't so famous since he died in just 1 year.

Most people in Orlais don't even believe that there was a true blight in Ferelden.

As for my dalish we treat our artifact seriously,you stole ,you pay.

 http://images2.fanpo...4-1600-1200.jpg

also they say that revenge is a dish best served cold,implies that there's great satisfaction in avenging an old grudge (between my Warden and Morrigan)--striking back maybe years after the incident has been largely forgotten. 

[Tidus]

Akiza,They also say revenge is sweet.. After what my warden does to Loghain I just can't see Loghain forgetting and fading into the land of nobodies since he would be on the same level as a brand or city elf-a mighty fall from where he once was-the regent of Ferelden and the hero of River Dane.

 

 I'm sure he would want payback even if it means nothing more then killing my warden or the lady he loves. It would be dangerous to allow Loghain  to live. After all he doesn't seem quite right in the head and shows no fear when he is talking to the warden in camp-I watched three different  videos on you tube covering this and in one it appears he shows no remorse for his crimes. I thought he was rather arrogant in toward the warden.

[Secret Rare]

Akiza,They also say revenge is sweet.. After what my warden does to Loghain I just can't see Loghain forgetting and fading into the land of nobodies since he would be on the same level as a brand or city elf-a mighty fall from where he once was-the regent of Ferelden and the hero of River Dane.

 

 I'm sure he would want payback even if it means nothing more then killing my warden or the lady he loves. It would be dangerous to allow Loghain  to live. After all he doesn't seem quite right in the head and shows no fear when he is talking to the warden in camp-I watched three different  videos on you tube covering this and in one it appears he shows no remorse for his crimes. I thought he was rather arrogant in toward the warden.

He show remorse has he admit in redcliffe and at Denerim at the end game,even if you try to save him twice both with the ritual or your personal sacrifice he immediately want to die,the fact that he seem cold in conversation is due to the fact that he was still on low approval.

At 40+ he change the dialogue options,Loghain isn't crazy just a man ho made bad decisions,once you put him on the right binary there are no more problems.

Plus from a gameplay perspective i got tired o Alistair to that point so have a new companion was refreshing,hell i would have substitute Alistair even with an Hurlock,his complaining for the entire game until the landsmeet gave me headache

[Tidus]

Secrete Rare, While I'm not a big fan of Alistair I would choose him over Loghain any time.

 

I might have to force myself to allow Loghain to live in my next game.. I could use the Shem since he would know Loghain and may be more forgiving then a Elf. 

 

However.

 

I would  still find it a mighty hard pill to swallow since Logain would still want my warden dead and without a doubt he ok'd Howe's betrayal to the Couslands. I just don't think Pup would let that slide.

 

I know I wouldn't.

 

I might spare Loghain  in game #14 to see what happens. I just finish Game #13 and started DA:I and Star Ocean-The Last Hope.