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Doesn't anyone know how to detonate?


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#1
steamcamel

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It seems like the concept of combos and detonation is lost on most players.

 

I'm racking up groups of sleeping and paralyzed enemies for a nightmare/discharge combo, but the semi-conscious tanks and rogues with impact/precision detonators just ignore it and mash buttons on something else, even though their detonators are clearly not on cooldown.

 

Is it because you find detonations useless? Or do you just not grasp the concept?

 

Come on, let's see some fireworks. Combos are fun :)



#2
Yallegro

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Some combos are awesome

 

Other combos are meh

 

It is also impossible for a player to predict if combo detonation is going to be actually good without a FAQ

 

Good combos (may be overgeneralizing as I don't have the faq in hand)

 

-Precision Twin Fangs, Ambush on frozen

 

-Eldritch on sleep/stun

 

-Rupture on sleep/stun

 

Rather weak combos

 

eldritch on paralyzed

 

eldritch on frozen (doesn't seem to do anything for Spell Purge on the templar)

 

Impact Stonefist on frozen

 

 

On the whole I also think triggering shatter with Shield Bash or other on frozen is a waste of incapacitation seconds (except when done leetly)



#3
Aetika

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I can´t grasp the concept. Far too much informations for me to remember. The best I can do is shatter frozen targets, sorry :blush:


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#4
Texasmotiv

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My least favorite thing is when I am running templar and I WoH a group and the katari comes in and mighty blows. Now the group is at 3/4 health when if he had just waited two seconds they would all be dead when I purge.


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#5
MGW7

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Detonators and pries in this game are not really defined, and lack visual umph.

 

Biotic combos, fire bursts, tech bursts, and cryo blasts were very obvious explosions that you could hardly ignore, and as such people learned to set them up for bonus damage.

 

In this game they are a slight extra bit of damage, and one of the many floating words you see while in combat. There is no big thing that tells you that you are actually achieving anything, and shatter tends to look more like you've just freed a trapped enemy. Nobody sees the combo happen, and the game never gives an explanation for what they are, or how to make them happen. A friend of mine has played through the entire campaign 3 times, and had no idea what I was talking about by combo detonations, so it's not like they give you a big heads up in the campaign, let alone the multiplayer.

 

The combo system even as I know it is a rock paper scissors system.

magic>physical>mental

But at no point is this ever explained in game.

 

If the detonations had a visual effect that brought them to the forefront, and made you see it, and if there was some explanation in game that wasn't subtle and hidden out of the way, we might actually see people figuring out and using them more.


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#6
steamcamel

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Detonators and pries in this game are not really defined, and lack visual umph.

 

Biotic combos, fire bursts, tech bursts, and cryo blasts were very obvious explosions that you could hardly ignore, and as such people learned to set them up for bonus damage.

 

In this game they are a slight extra bit of damage, and one of the many floating words you see while in combat. There is no big thing that tells you that you are actually achieving anything, and shatter tends to look more like you've just freed a trapped enemy. Nobody sees the combo happen, and the game never gives an explanation for what they are, or how to make them happen. A friend of mine has played through the entire campaign 3 times, and had no idea what I was talking about by combo detonations, so it's not like they give you a big heads up in the campaign, let alone the multiplayer.

 

If the detonations had a visual effect that brought them to the forefront, and made you see it, and if there was some explanation in game that wasn't subtle and hidden out of the way, we might actually see people figuring out and using them more.

 

I suppose that's true. Except for the discharge, which always makes my day :) I liked combos better in Dragon Age Origins, where they were not only powerful, but more satisfying, because they were so hard to pull off. They also made more sense. It's a bit strange that you can hit an electrically paralyzed enemy and then unleash a big lightning explosion. It makes no sense.
 



#7
CremeDelight

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Most good combos rely on multiple characters of different class using certain skills, and it is actually harder in MP because of the low amount of skills slots, lag, these crappy wild animals that are supposed to be neutral yet redirect all aggro at players, status immunities and other variables.

 

It might be good to add something to the Proving Grounds for this, perhaps? I could use a hands-on lesson about it, too.

 

It is probably better to treat it as a bonus for well-coordinated and balanced teams, and not a requirement.


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#8
ErySakasegawa

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Didn't know about combo's until I started playing the multiplayer part. Even then, only after reading in the forums. Still can't remember most of the combos. The visuals are just too bad to make proper combos, imo.


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#9
llandwynwyn

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Combos in DA2 were implemented better. Hell, even DAO. Most players have no idea, and I think they did little to no dmg on DAI release? At least on SP, I remember trying and being disappointed.



#10
capn233

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I thought an eldritch was something they wore in Orlais. *shrug*


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#11
TheThirdRace

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The thing is, combos should happen naturally.

 

ME3MP made it pretty easy with a full tech or full biotic squad, but it was "hard" to pull off as a team because tech and biotics were getting in the way of each other.

 

In DAIMP, combos don't get in the way of each other, but it simply doesn't happen easily. You have to be coordinated like a hive mind to reliably do them the whole match. Sure, you'll get a couple here and there, but you can't base your strategy on them, at least not unless you're top 50 on the leaderboards.

 

Another thing ME3MP did that made combos more accessible was that every character could prime and detonate combos. This made it a very reliable source of damage. In DAIMP, it's the total opposite.

 

So does the combo concept is lost on players? I think not, but it's so freaking situational that the disadvantages greatly outweighs the benefits.



#12
TheSevered

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In ME3 combos could be done on any enemy and they would trigger a fairly large AOE explosion that stagger if not kill enemies in the vicinity. They could also be pulled off with a single kit making them easier to learn and when combined with the same or similar kit you could greatly increase the combos occurrence since the cool downs where shared across two players.

In DAMP you have status effects that can only be cast on certain enemies (and some only last for a couple seconds) that can almost exclusively be only detonated by a kit from a different class. There's little guarantee that the other players even spec'd into an applier or a detonator and it's even less likely that they're saving it for an opportune moment. When you do finally set off an explosion it doesn't seem to do any AOE damage or stagger at all. Though damage is alright, it's often wasted on the enemies with the lowest health pools because they're the ones vulnerable to the most status effects. You surely could use the combos to great effect, but they demand a well coordinated team and thats not a resource the majority of the player base has consistent acesses to.

I imagine it looked good on paper and in testing since the testers would likely have thorough knowledge of the mechanics. But it's turned out to be a less then optimal system for the real world. Especially with the lack of AOE they leave a lot to be desired.

#13
akots1

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Detonations, for the most part, do not scale with difficulty. So, they are not as good as ME3 combos. Also, there are too many enemies and people seldom switch targets and just continue attacking what they face because it is so natural and easier.



#14
Sothalor

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I think one contributor to the general lack of combo cooperation is how easy it is to miss the window of opportunity on them. Nostalgia may be tinting my perspective, but in ME3MP I remembered the combo primers lasting for quite a while - upwards of 8 or 10 seconds on a lot of them. They also had immediate visual feedback - biotic primers made their victims glow bright blue, fire primers set their victims on fire, etc. If you had eyes on target and it got hit with a combo primer, it was immediately evident - and the effects lasted long enough that if you had a detonator on cooldown, it would still be there by the time it refreshed.

 

 

Now contrast the combo primers in DAMP:

 

We have four primers, all of which incapacitate the target - Freeze, Stun, Sleep, and Paralyze. Of these, three of them typically have short durations - 4 seconds or less, as low as 2 seconds in the case of a paralyze from Static Cage. The other, Sleep, breaks when the target takes damage. This means you have a far shorter window of opportunity to take advantage of a combo primer. Now, this was never an issue for me in single player, where I could immediately pause after using a primer, take however long I wanted to select a character with a detonator, and queue up the pain, but in multiplayer where you not only cannot pause, but you're also at the mercy of latency and connection quality (with a distinct lack of dedicated servers, *ahem*), and this becomes a recipe for whiffed combos.

 

Also consider the visual feedback of the primers in DAMP: Freeze is probably the most visually distinctive and obvious, what with turning the victim white and shiny, but... that's about it. With Stun, Sleep, and Paralyze, the victims just sorta stand there. All the DAMP fights have a lot of visual clutter - player abilities, creature abilities, environmental effects, etc. In terms of visual design, these combo primers plummet right to the bottom of what attracts your attention. Yes, there are little scrawling text messages, but there's already tons of floating scrawly text in the middle of a fight, and it's not a good indication of how long an effect persists. What I would have personally done is make it so that while a combo primer is active on a target, put some kind of obvious glowy icon above their heads - like, a snowflake for Freeze, or the little orbiting stars for Stuns. Make them big and immediate, and make them last for as long as the effect persists, as a sort of "Use a Detonator on this guy!" sign.

 

 

Oh, another contributing factor I've noticed is that because the combo primers are tied to incapacitating effects, you end up with this non-intuitive mix of enemy types that are just immune to certain combos because of their immunity to that associated incapacitator. You do end up with a sense of what's immune/vulnerable to what after playing for a while, and you can check on enemy units while you're in the fade, but that information is very... obtuse for new players (and/or the less observant ones). This also results in a kind of strange (to my mind) set of interactions where the weakest grunts, by virtue of their vulnerability to the broadest spectrum of primers, are the ones that get hit with combos the most often (resulting in a kind of hilarious overkill), while the big targets, whom you'd think would be the prime combo targets, are immune to a bunch of things and hence people don't bother trying to set up combos on them.

 

 

With all that said, I do enjoy the combo system in the game. I think it adds an entertaining aspect of teamwork, but... I'm almost always playing with an old friend on a solid connection and we're on voice chat, calling out targets to set up for combos a priori. When I'm playing in a PUG, especially one with a shoddy connection, heh. Good luck.


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