Please... no fetch loyality quests...
No saving a princess from the NEXT castle either...
Companions loyality should be gained in more explicit way - you save their arse from dying, you back them up in crucial situation, you help them get a date as a side-kick ect...
No saving imaginary parents/sisters/brothers from generic domestic problems....
Samara/Morinth?
One of them is a battle hardened justicar who´s already part of the team, the other a hunted criminal who kills during intercourse. Sure she could be useful if she were able to sleep with Harbinger without getting indoctrinated
but for a (para)miltary operation? Never saw a reason to betray Samara just because her daughter made some vague promises.
Samara threatens Renegade Shepard and my femshep saw Morinth as a good BFF to go party and get high with. So there's reasons.
Morinth tried to kill you one minute ago and IIRC Samara tells you that later anyways.
Force us into difficult positions, really drive home the fact we are not an almighty hero who can save everyone. If Marine Bros little Sister dies because of us then it changes the whole dynamic of our relationship. Then again the Quarian dude will approve greatly and maybe that research pays off later (be it in another mission, or with new gear, or in the prologue, etc...).
Maybe that system would not work, but just decisions that cannot be negated by a "3rd option" and really force us to "choose" and face the consequences and benefits of our choices would be a addition in my opionion. Heys that ryhmes!
The question is specifically about Legion's loyalty mission because it perfectly shows what I'm asking for more of: A scenario where you are offered two choices where neither is the best answer and neither is a wrong answer.
Tali's trial on the other hand perfectly shows what I didn't like: A scenario where you are offered three choices, two of which are equal but different and the third is superior to the others.
I'm not asking for the "best" outcome to be more difficult to get. It would be more accurate to say that I am asking for the "best" outcome to be removed entirely from more choices in the game. There is no work or difficulty involved in making a dialogue choice, but it does make it more interesting if that choice doesn't have a "best" answer the majority of the time.
I have no idea where you're getting this idea that I think players should be working for anything. I play insanity because I enjoy the difficulty and that is all I need. I shouldn't get anything extra just because I played the game on a higher difficulty. The only thing I could ask for is that insanity in ME:A be a little bit more difficult, as I felt it was too easy in Mass Effect 3.
I don't see this as a very compelling objection. It was about time that a Paragon choice didn't automatically give you the best result, and I don't see the case for both sides of a choice always coming through with identical payoffs.
No saving a princess from the NEXT castle either...
Don't worry. The princess in in a different castle anyway.
Mario must have hated Toad.
Samara threatens Renegade Shepard and my femshep saw Morinth as a good BFF to go party and get high with. So there's reasons.
You can be mostly renegade without looking like an escaped mental patient. Ok haven´t done it in ME 1 but ME 2 and 3 are rather tame most of the time and Samara evaluates you because of your deeds in ME 2. You get renegade points from ME 1 but it´s not like they fill most of the bar or so.
A paragon Shepard can do more damage than a renegade Shepard depending on the playthrough.
Samara doesn't threaten renegade Shepard. She threatens a psycho, violent Shepard, which isn't the same thing. Frankly, that version of Shepard shouldn't have even made it out of an Alliance psych ward before ME1.
Lol, renegade Shep is a psychopath, but still, I wouldn't have it any other way I guess. I've come to expect the full range of roleplaying from Bioware games.
OT: the more I think about loyalty missions, the more they seem to fit neatly into the Bioware formula and I gotta say, I hope they don't make an appearance at all. I'd like to see specific missions, but not one's that are simply about gaining favor with your squadmates.
Samara doesn't threaten renegade Shepard. She threatens a psycho, violent Shepard, which isn't the same thing. Frankly, that version of Shepard shouldn't have even made it out of an Alliance psych ward before ME1.
Samara makes no distinction on what kind of renegade shepard one plays as AFAIK, it's all based on arbitrary points.
Lol, renegade Shep is a psychopath, but still, I wouldn't have it any other way I guess. I've come to expect the full range of roleplaying from Bioware games.
OT: the more I think about loyalty missions, the more they seem to fit neatly into the Bioware formula and I gotta say, I hope they don't make an appearance at all. I'd like to see specific missions, but not one's that are simply about gaining favor with your squadmates.
Renegade Shepard is pretty moderate actually, most of the choices are pretty sensible.
Now if you want to see a PC that can pretty dubious, there's the ones from Fallout like the courier...
Ah I know what her problem is. Asari value cooperation, diplomacy (and hiding stuff behind your back). Intimidating people is a sin in the eyes of the goddess and the codex, punishable by death.
What do you say to the best outcome being available not through a persuade option but rather through making a series of prior choices? For example, for Tali, you have to save Kal'Rheagar and Veetor and incite the crowd?
It seems to me that if those other options have their own negative consequences (for example, sending Veetor back gives you less intel on the collectors at a crticial moment, or saving Kal'Rheagar requires you to abandon pursuing some Intel on the geth that might have some other useful purpose) it seems like having a "best" ending for this quest is OK.
Ultimately my issue is this: when every choice comes down to a binary between two unsavoury choices each with their own pros and cons the whole thing starts to feel artificial.
It's a more interesting way of providing the option to have a best outcome, basing it on a variety of previous choices.
I'm not necessarily against a "best" outcome as much I mostly just don't care much for the magic "fix everything" button that is most paragon/renegade dialogue options. I'd actually rather them remove that system entirely and use Dragon Age's approval system instead as a "morality" system.
I wouldn't mind having loyalty missions dropped altogether. I like the fact companions are integral to the story, I just don't like the fact that every companion has their own mission. The whole thing feels symmetrical and artificial instead of immersive. Just have different companions have more dialogue within the various missions. For instance Liara was found in one mission, she has heavy influence on the mission with her mother and the cipher. But none of it requires her. I feel having all the companions blend in like that will get away from the game feeling like it was written to strictly adhere to the Bioware story formula.
Screw loyalty missions, this time I don't want to babysit whiny cadets, this time it's whole settlements, tribes and nations that are gonna owe humanity a big favour. And I am going to remind them.
Any crew that comes whining about how mean mummy has been to them will be out the airlock in no time.
Funny thing about Loyalty Missions is that they are actually not about loyalty. Shepard didn't need their loyalty, they already were doing everything he says. It's companions who needed to embrace Shepard's Light in order to survive.
Anyway, companion missions are a good practice, no doubt they'll get enough attention in MEA.
But I'd like it possible to have them end badly for your relationship with the companion;
Like even worse then they were before? So it's better not to do it at all? That screams like bad game design.
Funny thing about Loyalty Missions is that they are actually not about loyalty. Shepard didn't need their loyalty, they already were doing everything he says. It's companions who needed to embrace Shepard's Light in order to survive.
Anyway, companion missions are a good practice, no doubt they'll get enough attention in MEA.
Like even worse then they were before? So it's better not to do it at all? That screams like bad game design.
Why is it bad design? I see the companion centred quests as being about the relationship between the PC and the companions. At this point we've come full circle to my original point. I want the possibility of the companion quests making the PC's relationship with the companions worse - based on the choices that the player makes.
I don't see these quests as a means of raising your approval with the companion, but as playing through the PC and the companions stories.
P.S. I liked: It's companions who needed to embrace Shepard's Light in order to survive
Funny thing about Loyalty Missions is that they are actually not about loyalty. Shepard didn't need their loyalty, they already were doing everything he says. It's companions who needed to embrace Shepard's Light in order to survive.
Anyway, companion missions are a good practice, no doubt they'll get enough attention in MEA.
Like even worse then they were before? So it's better not to do it at all? That screams like bad game design.
In Zaeed and Tali's case, your relationship with them can end up worse than before in certain outcomes where the mission isn't failed (letting Vido escape and turning over the evidence to the Board respectively). I thought they had the two best designed LM's for that specific reason...well other than the fact that you can completely circumvent the negative consequences by yelling in blue/red. I'd have liked more outcomes like that (Thane and Samara's missions can also end without their loyalty, but you have to intentionally fail them).
How about more loyalty missions with no combat involved? Samara's as probably the best example. Gain the attention of Morinth and make her believe that you're the kinda guy she wants
How about more loyalty missions with no combat involved? Samara's as probably the best example. Gain the attention of Morinth and make her believe that you're the kinda guy she wants
For that matter, I'd like more missions of any sort with no combat (or at least the option of no combat).
For that matter, I'd like more missions of any sort with no combat (or at least the option of no combat).
Ghosting the whole game as an option? 
You are supposed to be a pathfinder which tends to imply reconnaissance after all.
How about more loyalty missions with no combat involved? Samara's as probably the best example. Gain the attention of Morinth and make her believe that you're the kinda guy she wants
Thane's loyalty mission had no combat
How about more loyalty missions with no combat involved? Samara's as probably the best example. Gain the attention of Morinth and make her believe that you're the kinda guy she wants
I think there should definitely be a few missions, even if not centered on your squadmates, that aren't combat-based. I loved the portions in the lab during the Leviathan DLC.
I loved the portions in the lab during the Leviathan DLC.
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