47 réponses à ce sujet

[Mdizzletr0n]

I mean, outside of the bugs and animations, I really liked how I could approach things how I wanted. If I wanted to go in guns blazing, I could do that. If I want to be stealthy and use a melee (which I usually do in FO3) I can. It's a good platform to combine both Third Party Shooter and a more melee based style (which Bioware will probably leave out. Bastards) that they could take from in terms of gameplay.

Also, I prefer the RPG approach of FO as well. In ME, I felt that I was limited in the stats and skills. I would've liked to add points to things like dexterity, strength, endurance and so on while having the actual talents or skills be a separate thing and relative to your actual stats. For example, dexterity being relative to pistols, agility and smaller weapons or intelligence being related to your skill as an engineer and/biotic and what not.

Maybe these would work better for ME:A if the protagonist isn't forced to be an outright soldier from the jump.

Anyways, I think this would allow us to really REALLY mold who the protagonist is not just in terms of dialogue. Some could approach situations like Rambo, some like a ninja, and others with their Space Magic.

Just a thought.

[Cyonan]

With all the extra melee weapons they had in ME3 MP, I'm hoping they make melee a more viable build in ME:A.

 

As far as things like stats/skills go I don't think BioWare will go that route, but I wouldn't be directly opposed to it.

 

Just as long as the gun's bullet spread isn't dictated by your stats. I will always be directly opposed to that in an action based combat system that expects you to aim for yourself.

[RoboticWater]

I never liked Fallout's skill system, nor its combat system for that matter. Ultimately, it's a problem of scale. It's hard to make any aspect of Fallout's gameplay adequately polished when there's so many stats to keep track of. I've also never been a fan of "pure stat level ups," as they tend to be boring and unrewarding. Without decent perks to tide me over, I'd be completely underwhelmed by Fallout's leveling system.

 

I prefer my shooter combat to be 1:1, no RNG getting in between me and my shots. I like pure RPGs and shooters equally, but if they mix incorrectly, it can leave the whole game in shambles. So if you're going to put shooter mechanics in as the main gameplay loop, they should feel fun no matter how I spec into my skills. Mass Effect just isn't the kind of game that needs to get caught up in combat stat checks and the like.

 

Besides, Mass Effect already does a good job with customization via classes. The Rambos of the world can choose soldier or vanguard, the ninjas can be infiltrators, and wizards can be adepts. Each class is distinct and designed specifically to be fun with their abilities. Tailored classes are more balanced and offer more polished variety.

[Kierro Ren]

Wouldn't ME3's fitness be Dex, Str, and End?

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

I think basic attribute score typically provide an redundant layer of stats in skill-based games.

[Mdizzletr0n]

Wouldn't ME3's fitness be Dex, Str, and End?

Hmm kind of but not really. That just lumps them all into one ball but I suppose for this sort of game yea, it makes sense

[Mdizzletr0n]

I never liked Fallout's skill system, nor its combat system for that matter. Ultimately, it's a problem of scale. It's hard to make any aspect of Fallout's gameplay adequately polished when there's so many stats to keep track of. I've also never been a fan of "pure stat level ups," as they tend to be boring and unrewarding. Without decent perks to tide me over, I'd be completely underwhelmed by Fallout's leveling system.

I prefer my shooter combat to be 1:1, no RNG getting in between me and my shots. I like pure RPGs and shooters equally, but if they mix incorrectly, it can leave the whole game in shambles. So if you're going to put shooter mechanics in as the main gameplay loop, they should feel fun no matter how I spec into my skills. Mass Effect just isn't the kind of game that needs to get caught up in combat stat checks and the like.

Besides, Mass Effect already does a good job with customization via classes. The Rambos of the world can choose soldier or vanguard, the ninjas can be infiltrators, and wizards can be adepts. Each class is distinct and designed specifically to be fun with their abilities. Tailored classes are more balanced and offer more polished variety.

When I say like a ninja, I mean get from point A to B without firing a single bullet or using a single skill. Being hidden by the shadows not so much via cloak a la Kasumi. I mean you can kind of do it in ME, but not really all that well.

But I hear what you're saying. I just never felt that ME was ever equal parts Shooter and RPG especially as the series went on. More of a Shooter that just so happens to have skill points. I feel that more RPG like stats makes for a far more customizable build. Even if taken more from DA than Fallout. All I'd really like is more versatility and options in play style. I don't really see how that would stop making Mass Effect what it is. But then again, I'm speaking as far more of an RPG fan than a Shooter fan so... I may be slightly biased. Lol

[Sylvius the Mad]

I would love to see MEA move in this direction.

Especially given how ME3 eliminated class restrictions on weapons.

[Mdizzletr0n]

With all the extra melee weapons they had in ME3 MP, I'm hoping they make melee a more viable build in ME:A.

As far as things like stats/skills go I don't think BioWare will go that route, but I wouldn't be directly opposed to it.

Just as long as the gun's bullet spread isn't dictated by your stats. I will always be directly opposed to that in an action based combat system that expects you to aim for yourself.

Speaking of which, how far is this in the future again? Why are we still using bullets and against world enders like the reapers no less? That always kind of made me scratch my head.

[RoboticWater]

When I say like a ninja, I mean get from point A to B without firing a single bullet or using a single skill. Being hidden by the shadows not so much via cloak a la Kasumi. I mean you can kind of do it in ME, but not really all that well.

But I hear what you're saying. I just never felt that ME was ever equal parts Shooter and RPG especially as the series went on. More of a Shooter that just so happens to have skill points. I feel that more RPG like stats makes for a far more customizable build. Even if taken more from DA than Fallout. All I'd really like is more versatility and options in play style. I don't really see how that would stop making Mass Effect what it is. But then again, I'm speaking as far more of an RPG fan than a Shooter fan so... I may be slightly biased. Lol

I think Mass Effect is shooter/RPG in equal parts in a different way than Fallout or other RPG hybrids. It's more of a shooter with RPG bits (powers, customization, story choices, etc.) layered on top. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective) that's a necessity of the game design. The core gameplay loop of Mass Effect is third person shooting, so that's what BioWare has to focus on. If the simple act of shooting doesn't feel right, then the game's not going to be that fun. For me, It's hard to get back into Fallout because the controls just seem awkward, effectively working against me. I don't want to be gimped by dice rolls and have my innate skill sold back to me in the form of level ups.

 

I agree about the stealth/gameplay variety bits, but with the caveat that making those bits are tough to do well. Unless the game is built from the ground up as an optional stealth experience like Deus Ex, which is no small feat, and then the end result can still be unbalanced, unrewarding, or just not fun. That's why a lot of people found DX:HR's combat to be lacking and the AI to be a bit stupid. Now that ME3 has shown how well the core combat has improved, I think BioWare has room to improve variety. More powers, passives, and classes would be welcome as long as they enhance rather than restrict the core gameplay. 

 

Maybe one day it'll be feasible to give players a wide range of gameplay options when AI and level design pipelines become quicker, but right now I think it's a bit too much to ask for, especially considering that BioWare wants to focus on the scale of the universe.

 

 

Speaking of which, how far is this in the future again? Why are we still using bullets and against world enders like the reapers no less? That always kind of made me scratch my head.

No, they're actually mass accelerated bits of metal. The same principal, but cooler.

[Pasquale1234]

Speaking of which, how far is this in the future again? Why are we still using bullets and against world enders like the reapers no less? That always kind of made me scratch my head.

The technology introduced in ME1 was pretty creative, and it was balanced with the overheat mechanic. The addition of thermal clips in ME2 was a giant leap backwards, imho. I think it was done to make the combat more shooter-like and introduce an ammo management mechanic.

I'd ask why we still have to target manually - I mean, Fallout has the VATS system - but I think we know the answer to that, too.

[Cyonan]

Speaking of which, how far is this in the future again? Why are we still using bullets and against world enders like the reapers no less? That always kind of made me scratch my head.

 

They're future bullets, which are basically a piece of metal the size of a grain of sand fired at insanely high velocities. Our "ammo" is the heat mechanic mentioned above, as guns in Mass Effect don't really run out of metal to fire.

 

Although some weapons, like the Arc Pistol, don't actually use bullets.

[Mdizzletr0n]

Ah yea... I did enjoy the arc pistol a little.

[Kabooooom]

I only recently started playing Fallout 3 after years of saying "maybe ill give it a try". I was skeptical that I would like it. Turns out, I LOVE it. It is amazing. The story sucks, but it more than makes up for it with how interactive the world is. You can literally do almost anything you want, in any situation. I was surprised by this at first. Like, it literally lets you straight up murder someone and then take their house and all their stuff, lol.

*****minor spoilers in the post below*****






And its been awhile since I played a game that made me say "oh holy ****!" out of surprise/fright lol. I played Fallout with no expectations. As soon I got out of the Vault, it was night. I stumbled into the run down Springvale town, thought "oh I can go check out that Elementary School and get my bearings, that looks like a safe place". O.O. Goddamn was I in for a surprise when I walked in and found bodies hanging from hooks and heard people shuffling in the next room. I snuck around steathily so they wouldn't find me right away, but quickly found myself having to kill every one of them - usually by killing one then stealing a weapon. The atmosphere in that game is AMAZING. Super well done. I was impressed.

The combat, while clunky (it sort of reminds me of ME1's clunkiness) is extremely versatile. I like that I can use strategy, like you said - and the strategy is entirely dependent on the situation, and every situation can be approached in multiple ways. The very first time I made it to the ruins of D.C., I didn't realize that you could set a destination on the map and use your compass to get there. I quickly ran out of bullets against raiders and ghouls, and was running around blind in the subways, meleeing everything I could just to stay alive. Barely made it out of there and to the destination. I learned to play the game smarter shortly after that, but lol, damn that was incredibly fun and memorable.

But honestly, Mass Effect is a totally different feel of game to me. I don't think what Fallout does would work with Mass Effect. It would make it feel like a totally different game. For example, to use the old trilogy to explain - you are role playing Shepard, but there are certain things that even Shepard can't do. You can't go around murdering people on the Citadel and then selling their body parts to people for cash, for example. There are many things that fly in Fallout's post-apocalyptic, lawless wasteland because, well, it is a lawless wasteland.

If all you want is a little more combat variety, then I am all for that. But I dont want the same level of Fallout's open and super interactive world at all. Fallout should stay Fallout and Mass Effect stay Mass Effect.

[Drone223]

I have no problem with Bioware taking inspiration from other games so they can improve their own, they however should always play to their strengths which is in their case writing interesting characters.

[Kabooooom]

I have no problem with Bioware taking inspiration from other games so they can improve their own, they should always play to their strengths which is in their case writing interesting characters.

I 100% agree with this. And Fallout's characters are extremely bland (although I hear New Vegas is better in that regard). Fallout does the open world, total freedom in interaction and character molding thing perfect - but I feel that is at the expense of story and characters. The latter exemplifies Mass Effect and Bioware games in general.

Taking inspiration is fine, but taking too much such that what you are good at actually suffers is not fine. Borrow too much and you aren't Mass Effect anymore.

It's why a lot of people are (unjustly, I think) mad about Halo 5: Guardians combat changes because they feel like it is copying CoD and doesnt feel like Halo anymore.

[Mdizzletr0n]

I only recently started playing Fallout 3 after years of saying "maybe ill give it a try". I was skeptical that I would like it. Turns out, I LOVE it. It is amazing. The story sucks, but it more than makes up for it with how interactive the world is. You can literally do almost anything you want, in any situation. I was surprised by this at first. Like, it literally lets you straight up murder someone and then take their house and all their stuff, lol.

*****minor spoilers in the post below*****






And its been awhile since I played a game that made me say "oh holy ****!" out of surprise/fright lol. I played Fallout with no expectations. As soon I got out of the Vault, it was night. I stumbled into the run down Springvale town, thought "oh I can go check out that Elementary School and get my bearings, that looks like a safe place". O.O. Goddamn was I in for a surprise when I walked in and found bodies hanging from hooks and heard people shuffling in the next room. I snuck around steathily so they wouldn't find me right away, but quickly found myself having to kill every one of them - usually by killing one then stealing a weapon. The atmosphere in that game is AMAZING. Super well done. I was impressed.

The combat, while clunky (it sort of reminds me of ME1's clunkiness) is extremely versatile. I like that I can use strategy, like you said - and the strategy is entirely dependent on the situation, and every situation can be approached in multiple ways. The very first time I made it to the ruins of D.C., I didn't realize that you could set a destination on the map and use your compass to get there. I quickly ran out of bullets against raiders and ghouls, and was running around blind in the subways, meleeing everything I could just to stay alive. Barely made it out of there and to the destination. I learned to play the game smarter shortly after that, but lol, damn that was incredibly fun and memorable.

But honestly, Mass Effect is a totally different feel of game to me. I don't think what Fallout does would work with Mass Effect. It would make it feel like a totally different game. For example, to use the old trilogy to explain - you are role playing Shepard, but there are certain things that even Shepard can't do. You can't go around murdering people on the Citadel and then selling their body parts to people for cash, for example. There are many things that fly in Fallout's post-apocalyptic, lawless wasteland because, well, it is a lawless wasteland.

If all you want is a little more combat variety, then I am all for that. But I dont want the same level of Fallout's open and super interactive world at all. Fallout should stay Fallout and Mass Effect stay Mass Effect.

Definitely for the combat variety. I'd rather a smaller less expansive focused world with a great story than what Bethesda does. They're good for what they are though.

[Drone223]

I 100% agree with this. And Fallout's characters are extremely bland (although I hear New Vegas is better in that regard). Fallout does the open world, total freedom in interaction and character molding thing perfect - but I feel that is at the expense of story and characters. The latter exemplifies Mass Effect and Bioware games in general.

Taking inspiration is fine, but taking too much such that what you are good at actually suffers is not fine. Borrow too much and you aren't Mass Effect anymore.
 

It is possible to have both an expansive world and interesting characters (the witcher 3) Bioware can pull off such a thing but its a matter of finding the right amount of content for both of those aspects.

[SolNebula]

But then it wouldn't be ME. Play Fallout for a Fallout experience and leave ME to what is known for. Plot and characters.

[Mdizzletr0n]

And what makes ME, ME specifically? Outside of the lore and character design? Its not companions, whom you can have relationships with. Nor is being a TPS with minor RPG sprinkles. Its not the hours of storyline. Other games also do these things. Hell, ME ITSELF changed over 3 games.

I look at it like this, There's Battlefront and there's KOTOR. Are either of them NOT Star Wars?

[Drone223]

But then it wouldn't be ME. Play Fallout for a Fallout experience and leave ME to what is known for. Plot and characters.

Exploration and good story/characters don't have to be mutually exclusive.

[Mdizzletr0n]

It is possible to have both an expansive world and interesting characters (the witcher 3) Bioware can pull off such a thing but its a matter of finding the right amount of content for both of those aspects.

Very true, but I think the Witcher having mainly one predetermined character without any recruitable companions gives them more space to focus on the others. I still haven't played W3 since I'm not yet on Next Gen but from playing Witcher 2, CDPR is looking like the next big WRPG force. Let's just hope EA doesn't catch them in their poisonous net.

[Nitrocuban]

Fallout and ME are on opposite ends of the gameplay spectrum.

Open world vs. storydriven - going mor ein one direction means taking away from the other.

Imho Fallout and ME should meet somewhere in the middle.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

I look at it like this, There's Battlefront and there's KOTOR. Are either of them NOT Star Wars?

I'd make the argument that neither of them are Star Wars.  They just happen to have brand licensing slapped on a box. 

 

But for my part, I am sick to death of the misconception that "Open World" somehow means there's more depth to the playing experience.  In my experience, it is the exact opposite.  Mass Effect should stay Mass Effect.

[Mdizzletr0n]

Fallout and ME are on opposite ends of the gameplay spectrum.
Open world vs. storydriven - going mor ein one direction means taking away from the other.
Imho Fallout and ME should meet somewhere in the middle.

Just to clarify, this isn't about open world v. Story driven. But more about RPG mechanics and gameplay options in terms of style of play.

That said, FO4 seems that it may be heading in a more story driven direction. Maybe not Bioware level but more so than usual. Even has a voiced protagonist! Say whaaaa?