16 réponses à ce sujet

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Ok I must be going crazy but I have no other answer how I did 828 spirit damage. I miss clicked and used revival on a corpse and it either 1 shot it or did 800 spirit damage. Considering I have no other answer I was curious if this has been tested before? I'll keep doing it (good luck NOT finding corpses in the plains) but can anyone else repeat it?

[andy6915]

That would be very interesting. I know that healing spells hurting undead is something used quite often in Final Fantasy, but it would be extremely weird yet cool to see that in a DA game. Of course it's used in more than just FF games, but that was just the first example to jump to mind. A good sized list is on tvtropes.

 

http://tvtropes.org/...viveKillsZombie

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

So I actually can confirm that revival hurts "corpse"'s at the very least. It didn't one shot but it did over 900 to a corpse and cole hit it with hidden blades killing it. Not sure if upgraded will increase damage.

[andy6915]

So I actually can confirm that revival hurts "corpse"'s at the very least. It didn't one shot but it did over 900 to a corpse and cole hit it with hidden blades killing it. Not sure if upgraded will increase damage.

Now that is amazing. How did that stay unknown to the fanbase for so long?

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Now that is amazing. How did that stay unknown to the fanbase for so long?

IT also works on arcane horrors. considering revenants are so rare testing that might take a while. I grabbed life ward so we will see if that increases it's damage (I'm noting 900-999). And I imagine because who would use revival to damage them? And how many times do you really face undead? Although it does lead me to wonder what else it might be able to damage. Red templars? shades?
I went ahead and edited the wiki at least. I'll keep updating it if I find something else but it might just be undead. By the by my weapon deals 33 cold damage. So 900+ is like...wow? 27x 29x weapon damage? ish? That's...amazing?
It seems like life ward doesn't help. I used it on a higher level corpse sure but it's spirit damage. I doubt it would have mattered much. So now with 39 fire damage and +6 magic revive is dealing 1.1k spirit damage.
I found my new favorite spell.

[PapaCharlie9]

IT also works on arcane horrors. considering revenants are so rare testing that might take a while. I grabbed life ward so we will see if that increases it's damage (I'm noting 900-999). And I imagine because who would use revival to damage them? And how many times do you really face undead? Although it does lead me to wonder what else it might be able to damage. Red templars? shades?
I went ahead and edited the wiki at least. I'll keep updating it if I find something else but it might just be undead. By the by my weapon deals 33 cold damage. So 900+ is like...wow? 27x 29x weapon damage? ish? That's...amazing?
It seems like life ward doesn't help. I used it on a higher level corpse sure but it's spirit damage. I doubt it would have mattered much. So now with 39 fire damage and +6 magic revive is dealing 1.1k spirit damage.
I found my new favorite spell.

Are you assuming the spell's damage is based on base weapon damage? I'm not saying it isn't, and it's a safe guess since most spells are, but we have to hold open the possibility that it might not be. If you can set up a battle against the same target, save/reload and swap out the 33 for the 39 staff, and record at least 3 examples of each, that would be pretty positive proof. Don't change anything else. If you change both a magic buff and the base damage of the weapon, you don't know which one contributed to the 1.1k higher number.

Why three examples? There is a +/- 5% random variance in all weapon-based damage. You want to smooth out that variance with as many trials as you can stomach. I chose 3 arbitrarily, the more the better. That said, really low base weapon damages, like 33 and 39, contribute less to the total damage variance. Even if the spell does 30x base damage, that's only +/- 60 points of damage max, all else being equal.

BTW, there is a location in the Exalted Plains that is guaranteed to spawn a Revenant. It's a bit tedious, but you get both an Arcane Horror and a Revenant, in the same location, but in separate battles, ideal for doing testing. Confirmed with level 10 IQ.

Spoiler

Travel to the Dalish camp in the Exalted Plains. Talk to the Keeper. Obtain the quest to remove the angry spirits from Var Bellanaris. Set active and follow the quest marker. Dispatch the spirts (optional, return to the Keeper to complete the quest, then travel back to Var Bellanaris). Pick up a new quest, The Spoils of Descration, by destroying and looting all of the elven grave markers. This gets you a key that opens the crypt at the back of the area. Loot the area, saving the tall elven container in the last room (up the stairs) for last. It is the container by a crypt that has a burning torch. Don't touch the loot until you are ready. Make your save here. Then loot the container. The torch goes out and an Arcane Horror plus some adds spawn. Defeat them. Make a new save. Go downstairs and a Revenant will spawn from the three stone coffins, plus 2 adds. Defeat them and save again. Now reload the first save and repeat twice more with the same 33 staff. Then reload and repeat 3 times with the 39 staff.

Finally, the Fallow Mire is a perfect place to do repetitive testing against Corpses. You can spawn them at will just by getting your feet wet. The mobs are relatively isolated, so you can target just one with each spell cast.

Thanks for the discovery, the testing you have already done, and any you decide to do in the future! The whole community benefits.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Are you assuming the spell's damage is based on base weapon damage? I'm not saying it isn't, and it's a safe guess since most spells are, but we have to hold open the possibility that it might not be. If you can set up a battle against the same target, save/reload and swap out the 33 for the 39 staff, and record at least 3 examples of each, that would be pretty positive proof. Don't change anything else. If you change both a magic buff and the base damage of the weapon, you don't know which one contributed to the 1.1k higher number.

Why three examples? There is a +/- 5% random variance in all weapon-based damage. You want to smooth out that variance with as many trials as you can stomach. I chose 3 arbitrarily, the more the better. That said, really low base weapon damages, like 33 and 39, contribute less to the total damage variance. Even if the spell does 30x base damage, that's only +/- 60 points of damage max, all else being equal.

BTW, there is a location in the Exalted Plains that is guaranteed to spawn a Revenant. It's a bit tedious, but you get both an Arcane Horror and a Revenant, in the same location, but in separate battles, ideal for doing testing. Confirmed with level 10 IQ.

Spoiler

Travel to the Dalish camp in the Exalted Plains. Talk to the Keeper. Obtain the quest to remove the angry spirits from Var Bellanaris. Set active and follow the quest marker. Dispatch the spirts (optional, return to the Keeper to complete the quest, then travel back to Var Bellanaris). Pick up a new quest, The Spoils of Descration, by destroying and looting all of the elven grave markers. This gets you a key that opens the crypt at the back of the area. Loot the area, saving the tall elven container in the last room (up the stairs) for last. It is the container by a crypt that has a burning torch. Don't touch the loot until you are ready. Make your save here. Then loot the container. The torch goes out and an Arcane Horror plus some adds spawn. Defeat them. Make a new save. Go downstairs and a Revenant will spawn from the three stone coffins, plus 2 adds. Defeat them and save again. Now reload the first save and repeat twice more with the same 33 staff. Then reload and repeat 3 times with the 39 staff.

Finally, the Fallow Mire is a perfect place to do repetitive testing against Corpses. You can spawn them at will just by getting your feet wet. The mobs are relatively isolated, so you can target just one with each spell cast.

Thanks for the discovery, the testing you have already done, and any you decide to do in the future! The whole community benefits.

I can do some testing against corpses real quick but I was hoping to go on to here lies the abyss. I can remove the + magic on my staffs and go ahead and do some testing there. The revenants are going to be a pain though as I'm only level 12. Not the best of players after all
Gah if only I didn't finish the sulivien blade quest on my other file I could go and grab a tacticians and give it a go.
I'll edit when I finish some preliminary corpse testing.

Edit: So here's what I got. I have a 29 fire damage and 33 electricity damage weapon. Time to test on level 12 corpses.

29 damage fire staff results: 878, (970, 957 I hit both at once. Maybe matters?), 878 (das odd ), 878, 934 hit them at the same time again.

33 elec staff: 1023, 1423 crit, 970, 1040, 993, 993

So weapon damage definatly seems to be an increase. But I'm too hungry for math q.q
Edit 2: So it seems like it is 30x ISH. I say ish because corpses have a spirit vulnerability. So it might be more like 25x

Modifié par AnUnculturedLittlePotato, 02 août 2015 - 12:36 .

[PapaCharlie9]

I can do some testing against corpses real quick but I was hoping to go on to here lies the abyss. I can remove the + magic on my staffs and go ahead and do some testing there. The revenants are going to be a pain though as I'm only level 12. Not the best of players after all
Gah if only I didn't finish the sulivien blade quest on my other file I could go and grab a tacticians and give it a go.
I'll edit when I finish some preliminary corpse testing.

Edit: So here's what I got. I have a 29 fire damage and 33 electricity damage weapon. Time to test on level 12 corpses.

29 damage fire staff results: 878, (970, 957 I hit both at once. Maybe matters?), 878 (das odd ), 878, 934 hit them at the same time again.

33 elec staff: 1023, 1423 crit, 970, 1040, 993, 993

So weapon damage definatly seems to be an increase. But I'm too hungry for math q.q
Edit 2: So it seems like it is 30x ISH. I say ish because corpses have a spirit vulnerability. So it might be more like 25x

Nice work, and guesstimate looks good! I think all of the targets Revival would be effective against have spirit vulnerability (correct me if I'm wrong), it's safe to say its closer to 30x.

When you have a chance, copy these results to a reply to the GUIDE thread:

http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

and anywhere else (wiki) you think it would be useful. Thanks!

And by the way, the repeat of 878 is something I've seen as well in testing. I don't think the +/- 5% variance is linear. It's biased towards -5% in some way.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Yeah I've already put it up on the revival page on the wiki. Not sure where else it could go.

[PapaCharlie9]

Yeah I've already put it up on the revival page on the wiki. Not sure where else it could go.

Copy your test post and maybe the discovery part to a reply on this thread:

http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/
Nevermind, I should have checked the other thread first! Thanks.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Copy your test post and maybe the discovery part to a reply on this thread:

http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/
Nevermind, I should have checked the other thread first! Thanks.

I'm not sure when this will ever be useful tbh. It's a slightly smaller but more powerful immolate with limited targets.
It is nice though, I suppose.

[PapaCharlie9]

I'm not sure when this will ever be useful tbh. It's a slightly smaller but more powerful immolate with limited targets.

Combos. Consider a Fear demon hit with Mark of Death and then Revival ... heck, you might be able to one-shot kill Corypheus with that combo, in the last stage of that boss battle.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Combos. Consider a Fear demon hit with Mark of Death and then Revival ... heck, you might be able to one-shot kill Corypheus with that combo, in the last stage of that boss battle.

Well considering on normal I like 5 shot him in the last stage...(gotta love dragon weapons and hitting end game at level 24 ) It also looks like it's only undead. I tried shades so it's probably only corpses revenants and arcane horrors.

[PapaCharlie9]

Well considering on normal I like 5 shot him in the last stage...(gotta love dragon weapons and hitting end game at level 24 ) It also looks like it's only undead. I tried shades so it's probably only corpses revenants and arcane horrors.

Grumble ... the game plays fast and loose with canon. Undead are demons, so things that work against undead ought to work against demons. But that's just my wishful thinking.

Not that Coryphish is either. He's more darkspawn than anything else, so I stand corrected on both counts.

But the point about combos is still valid.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Grumble ... the game plays fast and loose with canon. Undead are demons, so things that work against undead ought to work against demons. But that's just my wishful thinking.

Not that Coryphish is either. He's more darkspawn than anything else, so I stand corrected on both counts.

But the point about combos is still valid.

Mark of death + flashpoint revival would probs 1 shot any arcane horror or revanant and considering how annoying/lethal those are your right. It is indeed valid.

[The Baconer]

Grumble ... the game plays fast and loose with canon. Undead are demons, so things that work against undead ought to work against demons. But that's just my wishful thinking.

 

I think the fast-and-loose aspect is Revival working like this in the first place. As you say, undead in Dragon Age aren't really "undead" in the conventional sense, so this seems more like a cute little nod toward old fantasy roleplaying tropes, even though it doesn't really make sense within the context of the lore.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

So I can confirm revival damages Revenants. Gonna edit the wiki and the combat mechanics :>