43 réponses à ce sujet

[Wavebend]

IMO she's fine as it is. You won't find underpromoted players roll through NM on demons, while NM FC on demons can nearly be soloed on an AW. 

 

She has good survivability? Good. However she only has WH as a CC and that makes her subpar for teamplay on HB (unless you have an insane amount of promotes).  The AW however has Dispel, PotA, Blinding Horror, SF as detonator/stagger, etc. and can trigger sleep/nm combos via Weakened + passives 

 

Any dedicated DPS in a team requires a lot of sacrifices in terms of teamplay  (e.g. need for a barrier monkey like the virtuoso, sacrificing many CC opportunities)

[TheThirdRace]

Reaver is just fine. Yes she's very strong, but she can still die in 2 seconds in NM even with BiS gear and 75+ promotions on each stats (2000 HP). She does very well against certain types of enemies, but she can be vulnerable to other types like Mages and Despair demons.

 

We asked for ages to have some uses for Warriors, now that we actually have 1 that can deal damage and survive, you want to nerf it? Sorry but no. All the spotlight has been on the Mages since the beginning of the game, now it's time we let it shine a bit on Warriors, I'm still waiting for a couple buff on Rogues so they can have their moment too.

 

Here's my list of "strong" characters on NM:

Reaver

Legionnaire

Archer

Duelist

Arcane Warrior

Elementalist

 

Everything else is missing something to actually excel in NM. Not saying they aren't good, a lot of them are, but they're usually not the reason you clear a match.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Reaver is just fine. Yes she's very strong, but she can still die in 2 seconds in NM even with BiS gear and 75+ promotions on each stats (2000 HP). She does very well against certain types of enemies, but she can be vulnerable to other types like Mages and Despair demons.

 

We asked for ages to have some uses for Warriors, now that we actually have 1 that can deal damage and survive, you want to nerf it? Sorry but no. All the spotlight has been on the Mages since the beginning of the game, now it's time we let it shine a bit on Warriors, I'm still waiting for a couple buff on Rogues so they can have their moment too.

 

Here's my list of "strong" characters on NM:

Reaver

Legionnaire

Archer

Duelist

Arcane Warrior

Elementalist

 

Everything else is missing something to actually excel in NM. Not saying they aren't good, a lot of them are, but they're usually not the reason you clear a match.

You can add templar to that list. It does require a somewhat unorthodox build though. Other than that you're on the money, Necro is doable but requires a lot of self revives that can put you in a tight spot if you mess up. Hunter and Alchemist are only really effective in certain situations/certain team builds. The Avvar is dramatically weakened because of the elemental immunities enemies have, and the Katari's playstyle just doesn't jibe well against the wave composition in NM. Keeper and virtuoso have their place, but unless you have full BiS and a ton of promotes you aren't going to carry groups with them.

[K_A_Rnage]

Here's my list of "strong" characters on NM:
Reaver
Legionnaire
Archer
Duelist
Arcane Warrior
Elementalist

Everything else is missing something to actually excel in NM. Not saying they aren't good, a lot of them are, but they're usually not the reason you clear a match.

Agree. Some of the others in the right hands do well too but this is def top six.

[Parachromis]

I totally agree. I think the Reaver is right where it needs to be. The problem I see is the disparity in difficulty, along with some deficiencies with certain classes. Routine is lol, threatening is joke, perilous is a minor challenge, and nightmare is a ****** (for the under-promoted anyway). How much so? I have low promotes and can easily facetank anyone on perilous with an assassin with basic attacks. I would not dare bring her into NM. The Templar is almost there but is seriously lacking. It literally took a Hakkon weapon to make her semi-viable. Seriously? She can either block, or attack, but not both with any kind of effectiveness. Either significantly expand the radius of the wombo combo and/or give her a passive that makes her immune to knockdown. Furthermore, spell purge kinda sucks on its own. It does NOT dispel all barriers.

 

The bottom line is every class should be able to, at some point, be viable in any difficulty level. However, it shouldn't take 1000 hours to do it.

[Theghostof_timmy]

. Furthermore, spell purge kinda sucks on its own.

 

Wrong. Get the upgrade, wait for enemies to buff each other in a group, fire it off. Cheaper than wombo combo, and possibly just as effective while also affecting unstunnable (is that a word?) enemies like the RT Knight. You'd be surprised at how well it works, I've played with leaderboarders on NM and they thought I was wombo comboing when I actually don't even spec into WoH. And that's just with the Bitter Axe, I can just imagine the power of the Hakkon sword.

 

Edit: you know what, I'm going to post my build in a new topic. Luke, if you nerf her because of this I will hate you forever.

[Wavebend]

Wrong. Get the upgrade, wait for enemies to buff each other in a group, fire it off. Cheaper than wombo combo, and possibly just as effective while also affecting unstunnable (is that a word?) enemies like the RT Knight. You'd be surprised at how well it works, I've played with leaderboarders on NM and they thought I was wombo comboing when I actually don't even spec into WoH. And that's just with the Bitter Axe, I can just imagine the power of the Hakkon sword.

 

Edit: you know what, I'm going to post my build in a new topic. Luke, if you nerf her because of this I will hate you forever.

 

Very useful on HB as well, although on low promotes I had to make room for more stuff

[Parachromis]

Wrong. Get the upgrade, wait for enemies to buff each other in a group, fire it off. Cheaper than wombo combo, and possibly just as effective while also affecting unstunnable (is that a word?) enemies like the RT Knight. You'd be surprised at how well it works, I've played with leaderboarders on NM and they thought I was wombo comboing when I actually don't even spec into WoH. And that's just with the Bitter Axe, I can just imagine the power of the Hakkon sword.

 

Edit: you know what, I'm going to post my build in a new topic. Luke, if you nerf her because of this I will hate you forever.

 

Oh no bro, I'm not talking about that. I use it a lot for just for that very reason...it is very handy. I think I'm the only person I've seen use it on dragon fights to get rid of the elemental effects of dragon breath, such as DoT fire/chill effect from frost dragon. All I said was that it doesn't dispel all barriers like it's supposed to.

 

My main gripe is that the Templar has no good way to gain/maintain guard. It's possible, but you sacrifice waaaaay too much in order to do so.

[Wavebend]

My main gripe is that the Templar has no good way to gain/maintain guard. It's possible, but you sacrifice waaaaay too much in order to do so.

 

Ever used SW or Unbowed+?

[Theghostof_timmy]

Oh no bro, I'm not talking about that. I use it a lot for just for that very reason...it is very handy. I think I'm the only person I've seen use it on dragon fights to get rid of the elemental effects of dragon breath, such as DoT fire/chill effect from frost dragon. All I said was that it doesn't dispel all barriers like it's supposed to.

 

My main gripe is that the Templar has no good way to gain/maintain guard. It's possible, but you sacrifice waaaaay too much in order to do so.

Hah, it would be OP as F*ck if it actually dispelled all barriers, the poor VC would be absolute garbage. I've found unbowed + 2 max guard passives + flow of battle to be sufficient to maintain guard on NM. It does take up a slot and a couple of points of course, but they can be spared if you think creatively. See my build post.

[Parachromis]

Ever used SW or Unbowed+?

 

I use SW all the time and like it, but that saps way too much stamina. I'd love to spec Unbowed, but I find WoH/SP more effective...sort of. You either go offensive or defensive with the Templar. If I wanted to play defensive, I would play the Lego, as he's much better at it.

[MagicalMaster]

I totally agree. I think the Reaver is right where it needs to be. The problem I see is the disparity in difficulty,

 

The larger problem is the fact that Reaver is concerned with damage thresholds.

 

Let's assume we have a Reaver who is played fairly poorly -- the only thing the player knows how to do is this cycle:

 

Dragon Rage

Dragon Rage

Dragon Rage

Devour

 

Repeat infinitely.  The question now becomes "Will the Reaver take enough damage between Devours to actually kill the Reaver?"  Well, the amount of damage that would require is what, slightly over half her HP?  If she takes less than that amount, she will never ever die and can fight indefinitely.  If she takes more than that amount then she's toast.

 

Can think of it this way if you'd like: imagine a character that regenerates 1/6 of their HP per second.  They'd be gods in Routine.  Even in Threatening it'd be hard to kill them.  In Perilous you start getting worried in certain cases (hi Fire Wraiths/Desire Demons/etc).  And in Nightmare you can very, very easily faceplant.

 

Perhaps it'd be better if the Reaver's healing scaled differently depending on difficulty (meaning say, less on difficulties below Perilous and possibly slightly more on NM or Heartbreaker, but the important part is "less below Perilous") -- you still have your Heal on Kill/Heal on Hit stuff, improved armor, and bonuses from Promotions to help.

 

If Devour/Rampage healed for 40% of their current value on Routine and 70% of their current value on Threatening, for example, I think the Reaver would still be quite fine.  She doesn't *need* to heal as much because she's taking less damage in the first place.

 

That said, I'm not even sure it's worth changing...but it's the incoming damage vs healing done ratio that's the problem (at least for people without Dragon/Hakkon weapons and 30% HoK or something) in terms of her survivability, at least.

[Parachromis]

Read your post Timmy. It was exactly what I was thinking, however, I don't have the promotes yet. I can see the transition in my head, but atm, WoH/SP/SW/SB is most effective at my level. I really enjoy playing the Templar, but I can't justify sacrificing any of these abilities for Unbowed just yet. She still needs immunity to knockdown imo. It wouldn't hurt my feelings any if she were added to the OP list.

[Wavebend]

I use SW all the time and like it, but that saps way too much stamina. I'd love to spec Unbowed, but I find WoH/SP more effective...sort of. You either go offensive or defensive with the Templar. If I wanted to play defensive, I would play the Lego, as he's much better at it.

 

Depends.

 

The Lego is a one man army who relies on taunting, while the Templar is arguably more friendly in terms of teamplay (even more when fighting demons).

• Passives: Champions of the Just, There is no Darkness, The Last Sacrifice
• Actives: Horn of Valor (+0.5 to damage_multiplier to all team members when upgraded), Bodyguard

If you ever plan on beating HB, you may want to try a Bodyguard templar. [SW, Bodyguard+, Unbowed+, Horn of Valor+] is one of my favorite builds for teamplay. If you haven't tried something similar then you're severely underestimating the value of the Templar in a team

 

But yeah, it totally depends on whether you're playing with a coordinated group or pugging. In the latter case I'd prefer a lego because of better soloing capabilities.

 

My point is: You shouldn't expect all classes to function perfectly on their own. E.g. You won't solo NM on a Necro because she's a controller, but bring a DPS in the team who benefits from those sources of control (shatter combos and auto-crits on panic) and now we're talking

 

 

She still needs immunity to knockdown imo.

 

lol

[Parachromis]

 

That said, I'm not even sure it's worth changing...but it's the incoming damage vs healing done ratio that's the problem (at least for people without Dragon/Hakkon weapons and 30% HoK or something) in terms of her survivability, at least.

 

This is the problem I have with the Reaver, that and the insane blocking by the venatori. It blows my mind every time I hit a venatori scrub 10x with dragon rage and they take no damage. Then one wrong misstep and 2 arrows later you're dead. You couldn't kill, therefore you couldn't heal. Meh. I respect those who can play the girl.

[MagicalMaster]

This is the problem I have with the Reaver, that and the insane blocking by the venatori. It blows my mind every time I hit a venatori scrub 10x with dragon rage and they take no damage. Then one wrong misstep and 2 arrows later you're dead. You couldn't kill, therefore you couldn't heal.

 

Tip: they cannot block Devour or War Horn and (weirdly) you can also break the block with a normal melee swing (or two, something like that).

 

And the point I'm making is that she doesn't NEED to heal to kill -- Devour is what can sustain her indefinitely for people without HoK/HoH (and Rampage when it's up, of course).

 

...but yes, I loathe those stupid blockers sitting at 2% HP saying "NANANANA CAN'T HIT ME!"  Thankfully Devour will simply kill them at that point (and heal me!).

 

Meh. I respect those who can play the girl.

 

I think this is another part of it -- you have to know how to play her and a bad Reaver is honestly probably worse than a bad Archer (at least a bad Archer usually has the courtesy to be in the back near other ranged characters versus rushing forward and aggroing everything).  I've seen level 20 Reavers who apparently don't realize that Dragon Rage or Devour exist and die constantly...in Threatening.  And you have to know how much damage you can take -- a main goal is to limit the amount of enemies you're engaging at any one point (assuming you're not facerolling a difficulty far below your capabilities).

[TheThirdRace]

You can add templar to that list. It does require a somewhat unorthodox build though. Other than that you're on the money, Necro is doable but requires a lot of self revives that can put you in a tight spot if you mess up. Hunter and Alchemist are only really effective in certain situations/certain team builds. The Avvar is dramatically weakened because of the elemental immunities enemies have, and the Katari's playstyle just doesn't jibe well against the wave composition in NM. Keeper and virtuoso have their place, but unless you have full BiS and a ton of promotes you aren't going to carry groups with them.

Actually, the Necro build introduced by Courtneth is pretty amazing in NM. She can deal a lot of damage, has a lot of crowd control and definitely can be the last one standing without even needing self-revive. She's one of the only character that benefit more from the staff of Raziekel than the Hakkon staff since she doesn't rely on critical damage. I personally spec her like this: http://da-skills.net...C10,110,000,000

[Sir Perkins]

Don't get me wrong I give major credit for Luke addressing the community concerns over class balance and making under used classes viable now. In his efforts though, I feel due to user complaints found in the multiplayer threads in regards to certain classes being unplayable or underpowered there's been a quick rush to roll out buffs that were not needed and excessive thus leading to the 'new cillian' or somewhat close to it.
Case in point is the reaver, because I never felt she was underpowered/underwhelming or needed major adjustments found in the last patch. In fact, she got nothing but direct and indirect buffs that now lead to her being heavily relied upon in the upper difficulty levels for burst dps/tanking class.
These are the exact changes she got:
1.) Reaver base heal 2% on hit and increased health per level.
2.) All armors were refactored for level to provide more armor rating.
Those changes are quite major since this class that is presumed to be designed as a glass cannon with major burst dps. But with the advent of dragon/hakkon weapons and the ability to craft high hok with base heal on hit, she has now has a strong defense/survivability to go with her ridiculously high dps from dragon rage that deals 150% weapon dmg and crits more often than not even with low to moderate promotions with flow of battle+rampage it literally turns to full heal and spammablity.
I'm going to rustle a few jimmies by saying this, but reaver is the new pre patch arcane warrior and dragon rage is the new spirit blade because there are no major negatives in abusing/spamming this ability that deals avg 2-3k a swipe with dragon maul/hakkon valor with bloodbath passive it's around 4-5k+. The only downsides are when it's blocked by mook gladiators,with upgraded war horn and fear passive it's hardly something I call negatives. Projectiles are easily negated through proper defensive tactics like combat roll, and los with cover.
The allure of this class has been lost in transition not due to the fact that seemingly everyone now has her in group for dps, but she has become the go to tank class like pre AW was, just with massive dmg output. She far excels over other warrior kits now and tears through all factions unlike Avvar since her dmg output doesn't rely on elemental weaknesses, it's purely physical. Crushing leap and lady's wrath isn't abusable on nm but dragon rage dishes out 150% weapon dmg across every single faction with no cool down. Imo, the only thing reaver needed was rampage being fixed but with the latest patch it just made her the new AW, yet other classes are still lacking in proper adjustments such as templar and assassin.
To this day, I see the katari and alchemists being the only actual two classes that were balanced right because with their buffs (guard on hit, elemental mines) the classes themselves never lost what they were designed to do in a team based environment. Reaver was never designed to be durable, and have some of the best dps out of all classes.

No..

[ruggie]

Personally I think she dies to much