782 réponses à ce sujet

[Panda]

I think what could be done is a system where you have 4 'main'romances (2 per gender and heterosexual) and a small subset of other characters that you can meet, court quickly, then screw (all aliens and LGBTQ options included here). Sort of how the Witcher does it, honestly. I also think that the romance should be better integrated into your character, making it more of a central part of the story, similar to how KotOR handled it. As for what the romances should be... well, I think you need the standard BW fare of romances as far as characters go:

 

The two females: One that fits the more girl-next-door/nice girl/down-to-earth/Betty type (passionate, good-natured, grounded, hot-blooded, kinder, often more virginal, more spiritual, empathetic, etc. are tropes that tend to apply here, and as for characters, think Ashley, Leliana (in DA:O), Merrill, Tali, etc.), while the other female LI is the more mysterious ice queen (rational, colder, exotic, darker, more overt sexuality, femme fatale, and enigmatic are the tropes that apply here, with good character examples being Miranda, Morrigan, and Bastila). A good non-BW comparison of romances would be Triss Merigold and Yennefer of Venderberg from the Witcher.

 

The two males: One that is more of the traditional good guy/champion (chivalrous, nice, more naive, etc. with character examples being Carth, Kaidan, Cullen, and Alistair), and the one that is more of a rogue/scoundrel/bad boy (suave, dashing, sarcastic, darker, more experienced, etc. with examples being Zevran, Iron Bull, Dorian, Fenris, and, to an extent, James.) Non-BW example would be Luke and Han.

 

None of the tropes are mutually exclusive of course. As Dragon Age goes on for example, you can harden Leliana to be more from the bubbly nice girl to the more aloof darker femme fatale.

 

On the side, you have more secondary sexual interests that aren't romances per se, but fulfill other options that can be taken. IMO, this is where the LGBTQ and alien romances should be. 

 

As well, I do believe that the series shouldn't shy away from nudity of either gender (nothing explicit like what I get on xvideos or Pornhub). I think the romances (the primary romances) should be, as I said, more integral to the story, and to offer more than what a person who played without romances would get.

 

I quite much all over disagree with this. Witcher is very bad example, because it has fixed protagonist who is straight man. ME does not. You make your own character and your character can be what sexuality you want them to be and so not having romance in main romances would suck. Also LGBT+ content is also playable by everyone who plays the game, it isn't away from anyone, it is content for everyone. That notion also goes against Bioware's way of doing romances so luckily I don't think they are even thinking of doing that.

 

Also this is scifi game and shouldn't have only boring humans as main romances.

 

I think that all romances should have similar content and top of them there could be flings if Bioware wants to write them.

 

Also what becomes being entitled.. you call others entitled when they want LGBT+ options, but here you are asking at least 2 main romances for yourself while wanting some people to get only flings? So it's quite clear to me who here feels more entitled than others.

[The Heretic of Time]

^

This fighting over who should get what and how many waifus we should have in a videogame if f*cking ridiculous. These dumb arguments are the reason why BioWare should throw romances out of the window, or just make a set protagonist with a set canon romance interest (like The Witcher). 

[Panda]

^

This fighting over who should get what and how many waifus we should have in a videogame if f*cking ridiculous. These dumb arguments are the reason why BioWare should throw romances out of the window, or just make a set protagonist with a set canon romance interest (like The Witcher). 

 

Or Bioware could do 2/2/2 with everyone have similar content. 

 

I don't really know how set protagonist is even related to this even that's not game Bioware is doing.

[The Heretic of Time]

I don't really know how set protagonist is even related to this even that's not game Bioware is doing.

 

Because that way BioWare can give the protagonist and the romance interest some background and history, flesh it out a little bit, do something new, instead of doing the same shallow romance arcs that they have always done so far.

[BabyPuncher]

Or Bioware could do 2/2/2 with everyone have similar content. 

 

I don't really know how set protagonist is even related to this even that's not game Bioware is doing.

 

Even if even that was the best solution, that still leaves out all kinds of groups for one reason or another.

 

What about the people who want a dedicated asexual romance? Or a transgendered romance option? How often do those groups need to be 'represented'? If gay people deserve the same amount of dedicated romance options as straight people in every game, why not them?

[Panda]

Because that way BioWare can give the protagonist and the romance interest some background and history, flesh it out a little bit, do something new, instead of doing the same shallow romance arcs that they have always done so far.

 

Maybe new IP is going to be like that then. I just wonder if that would automatically mean that the main character has to be white heterosexual man or would players be okay with female lead, lead that is not hetero or lead that is not white, just taking accord that Bioware has been quite forerunner in gaming field in term of not making characters everyone else is making.

 

Even if even that was the best solution, that still leaves out all kinds of groups for one reason or another.

 

What about the people who want a dedicated asexual romance? Or a transgendered romance option? How often do those groups need to be 'represented'? If gay people deserve the same amount of dedicated romance options as straight people in every game, why not them?

 

True, it's hard to represent everyone and also draw lines. I think that is best solution I can think of right now, one that doesn't involved big bunch of LI's. Though asexual and transgender romances aren't really something that can't be included in 2/2/2 in my opinion, since character can be both asexual and heteroromantic for my knowing and transgender character would still have gender and sexuality. Also I think that opportunity of make asexual/demisexual protagonist who doesn't have to have sex in the romances in games is fine with many so this goes with the talk of having optional sex in the romances.

[The Heretic of Time]

Maybe new IP is going to be like that then. I just wonder if that would automatically mean that the main character has to be white heterosexual man or would players be okay with female lead, lead that is not hetero or lead that is not white, just taking accord that Bioware has been quite forerunner in gaming field in term of not making characters everyone else is making.

 

I can only speak for myself, but no, I don't mind whether the protagonist is male, female, white, black, yellow, blue, straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual or whatever, as long as he/she is cool, attractive and well-written.

 

Believe it or not, but aside from the generation-Y hippies, surprisingly few people actually care about the gender, color or sexual orientation of the protagonist in a videogame.

[Seboist]

just taking accord that Bioware has been quite forerunner in gaming field in term of not making characters everyone else is making.

 

lolwut? There have been female, non-white, non-human,etc protagonists since the 80s(if not sooner). The notion that Bioware is some kind of pioneer in this is flat out absurd.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I only read the first post and skimmed the first ~5 pages, so I apologize if these ideas came up already:

 

1. Let us decide if and when we even want sex in our relationship. I don't need to be rewarded with softcore porn for bringing the relationship to the next level, there are other ways to show intimacy, too.

 

2. Don't end the dialogue between potential LIs and the protagonist once we make clear that we're not interested romantically. Give us the option to develop it into a friendship. Also, lesbians make the best wingmen for straight guys.

 

3. I wasn't 100% happy with Iron Bull's BDSM relationship but don't be afraid of going unconventional ways again. Maybe try polyamory next?

 

4. Avoid stereotypes please. And ffs, don't add some ridiculous "weakness" to your strong women so they can appear vulnerable.

 

5. Don't let the relationship happen in a vacuum. People need to acknowledge it, the LI could move into your cabin, maybe they initiate things now and then instead of waiting for you to come and talk to them. Give us the option to just spend time together.

 

6. Allow casual flings. Not everyone wants a commitment, maybe people just need to have fun.

 

7. Make sure the relationship fits into the context, people hooking up left and right on a warship is a bit odd.

 

8. Flirting is fun, even if it leads nowhere. Example: Aveline.

[karushna5]

Even if even that was the best solution, that still leaves out all kinds of groups for one reason or another.

 

What about the people who want a dedicated asexual romance? Or a transgendered romance option? How often do those groups need to be 'represented'? If gay people deserve the same amount of dedicated romance options as straight people in every game, why not them?

 

This is confusing gender identity with sexual attraction. We do need more Trans characters, and I am so glad Krem and Maevaris are already part of the world. I hope that Trans characters will become more common and we will romance them, and josephine could already be seen a bit as an asexual romance. These can be part of the 2/2/2. I hope they become part of the 2/2/2. But they don't work aggainst 2/2/2

 

But one thing many people are saying against LGBT romances are forgetting 1 thing. Straight people love them. I have several friends, and when Inquisition came out, my lady friends (some bisexual, some not) made guys and romanced dudes. Most of my male friends (some bisexual some not) rolled up ladies and romanced Sera. Point being? We may be a minority, but the number of people who enjoy that content are not. I have never heard some of my friends squee over characters to the same length as their gay romances of the opposite sex.

 

Relegating LGBT content to hookups would be taking away from players across the board. The minority, are those that don't like them.

[The Heretic of Time]

8. Flirting is fun, even if it leads nowhere. Example: Aveline Dorian (as a female Inquisitor) and Vivienne.

 

Fixed that for you.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Fixed that for you.

 

Well, Aveline is still a good example but I agree with the other two, too.

[Panda]

lolwut? There have been female, non-white, non-human,etc protagonists since the 80s(if not sooner). The notion that Bioware is some kind of pioneer in this is flat out absurd.

 

So you are okay with black lesbian main protagonist then. I'm pleased to know there is no opposition for protagonist who is not white, male nor straight.

[The Heretic of Time]

Well, Aveline is still a good example but I agree with the other two, too.

 

I thought she was quite boring but fair enough.


Reading your post again I feel I need to reply to this too:
 

4. And ffs, don't add some ridiculous "weakness" to your strong women so they can appear vulnerable.

 

I think any character should have weaknesses, both male and female characters. A "strong" character without any weaknesses or vulnerabilities is not really a strong character at all.

[Seboist]

So you are okay with black lesbian main protagonist then. I'm pleased to know there is no opposition for protagonist who is not white, male nor straight.

 

You could've typed about space bats from Pluto and it would've had as much relevance to what I had said as what you just wrote.

[Panda]

You could've typed about space bats from Pluto and it would've had as much relevance to what I had said as what you just wrote.

 

Umm what? I thought we were agreeing

[The Heretic of Time]

You could've typed about space bats from Pluto and it would've had as much relevance to what I had said as what you just wrote.

 

Pluto in Andromeda? Thoughts?

[DaemionMoadrin]

I think any character should have weaknesses, both male and female characters. A "strong" character without any weaknesses or vulnerabilities is not really a strong character at all.

 

Yeah, true. I just can't stand it when a previously capable female character is suddendly unable to defend herself because the male protagonist is supposed to do it for her. Happens more in movies than in games but still... annoying.

 

What I was also talking about was BioWare giving their strong warrior women a penchant for poetry or something like that. It always felt weird to me, as if the writer wanted to say, "Look, she has a soft side, too!" as if we'd too intimidated otherwise.

[The Heretic of Time]

Yeah, true. I just can't stand it when a previously capable female character is suddendly unable to defend herself because the male protagonist is supposed to do it for her. Happens more in movies than in games but still... annoying.

 

I honestly don't mind when that happens, at long as it makes somewhat sense from a narrative standpoint. It also happens the other way around plenty of times, where a female character helps out a helpless male protagonist to achieve his goals, but somehow people don't pay attention to that.

 

Characters relying on each other and having weaknesses is what makes characters and stories interesting.

[Fade9wayz]

Yeah, true. I just can't stand it when a previously capable female character is suddendly unable to defend herself because the male protagonist is supposed to do it for her. Happens more in movies than in games but still... annoying.

 

What I was also talking about was BioWare giving their strong warrior women a penchant for poetry or something like that. It always felt weird to me, as if the writer wanted to say, "Look, she has a soft side, too!" as if we'd too intimidated otherwise.

And in movies (especially animated ones), they always, always have to trip over some root or something when running... Ghaaaa!

[daveliam]

A few things we already know:

 

• PCs will be customizable male/female humans
• There will be romances
• There will be non-human romances

 

So the 'suggestions' for set PCs and human only romances are out of touch. 

 

Also, people still can't tell the difference between sexuality and gender identity?  Asexuality and trans characters can still be included if they do the 2/2/2 approach.  You can be straight (or gay or bi) and asexual.  You can be straight (or gay or bi) and transgender.  They aren't mutually exclusive concepts.

[BabyPuncher]

Also, people still can't tell the difference between sexuality and gender identity?  Asexuality and trans characters can still be included if they do the 2/2/2 approach.  You can be straight (or gay or bi) and asexual.  You can be straight (or gay or bi) and transgender.  They aren't mutually exclusive concepts.

 

In practical terms, they are. This isn't a textbook.

 

If BioWare put in a transgender "female" character for straight male protagonists to romance, I can guarantee you that male players would largely not be including "her" as a straight option.
 

Likewise, if you have a character that's asexual, players are going to be unhappy and conclude they've had one of their options taken away from them.

[daveliam]

Just because people don't like a romance option, doesn't mean that they don't count.

 

"I have been given options but I don't like them" =/= "I was given less options"

 

You were trying to explain away including LGBT content using a slippery slope argument and were wrong.  That's really the point.

 

Besides, according to some people in this thread, it doesn't matter if a romance is trans or asexual as long as they are well written.  In fact, they'd be happy with a trans or asexual romance if it were well written, even if they were the only romance provided.

[BabyPuncher]

It does mean that. If BioWare wants their romance content to be successful, players need to like it. If they don't, it's not going to work.

 

This isn't some obscure minority. The majority of players would be angered at the implication that a transgender romance is an acceptable substitute for a normal one. And if players really were in a position of "I don't care what the gender/sexuality/blahblahblah of this character is so long as they're well written,' we wouldn't be having this conversation because none of this would be an issue in the first place if people really didn't care.

[daveliam]

No.  There is a fundamental difference between "I don't like my options" and "I was not given options".  You are equating the two because on an individual level, a person might feel that way.  But they are not the same thing.  Regardless of how many times/ways you try to say it.  Not liking your options is not the same as not being given options.  Since you are incredibly pedantic in most cases, you surely should be able to see this, right?

 

Note:  I'm not arguing whether or not the majority of people would enjoy a trans or asexual romance in a Bioware game.  Because, frankly, we've yet to have one so I have nothing but speculation to base it on.  I'm pointing out that your slippery slope argument about how we shouldn't bother including two options for gay and lesbian characters, under the guise of 'concern' for people who want a trans or asexual romance, is both transparent and incorrect, given that, unlike gay and lesbian options, trans and asexual romance options could be part of straight (or gay or bisexual) options already present in the game.  There is no need to add them in as a separate category.