782 réponses à ce sujet

[Sartoz]

We're talking hundreds if not thousands of years in the future... why would any modern-day standard of "romance" be applicable? It's not like you can transport current "western" social trends, with regards to relationships or much else really, back 2000-3000 years and apply them in the same way.

 

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Now it may be true about the time frame of the story. But the game's working $$$ budget ought to tell you the limitations imposed on its development. Romance is a feature and not the core arc of the game. A bit of honey to attract the bees, so to speak.

 

Don't be surprised or disappointed, if we get same old, same old with romances. A Bio experimental romance was that of Bull in DAI. Why do I say that, you ask? OK, here goes. I never even contemplated romancing the character for one and only one reason. Bull talked and acted out of his alien persona. In other words, I saw him as a fake... and uninteresting. A total break with the previous Qunari Canon. 

 

What I'd like to see and explore is the alien romance. By that, I  mean an alien looking human female/male that talks like one. One whose cultural background has few common points with human cultural mores.  As an extreme example, the alien could be naked while in their ship cabin... a normal cultural thing for them, like breathing is to us. This would make for a very interesting character, like the Arishok in DA2.  An alien that talks differently, with alien perspectives, such as pointing out humans' odd behaviours or inhibitions or the fact that our lovely alien LI comes from  Matriarchical society... where females rule! Now how would us human males approach our LI, eh?

[daveliam]

I'm glad we agree on that. 

 

As for tricking someone into romance: Well, if the trans-person doesn't tell beforehand that he/she is trans then that would be tricking someone into romance.

 

As for the 2/2/2 quota that some people are talking about (including you I believe, but correct me if I'm wrong):

 

I think it's nonsense to hold BioWare to such quotas. Even if they would make 2 straight, 2 gay and 2 bisexual romance options then it still wouldn't be "fair" or please everyone.
For example some people aren't attracted to aliens, so making some of the romance options aliens would already strike out some of the options for some people.
Other people aren't attracted to black people. So if the only human romance option is a black person then the people who are neither attracted to aliens nor black people would be **** out of luck (point in case: femShep's romance options in ME2, which made a lot of people unhappy).

Basically my point is: you're never going to make all people happy, so if I was BioWare, I'd just not give a damn about quotas or representation or any such thing. I'd just write cool, well-written and believable characters and make some of them romance options but only if it fits their personality and character arc.

Tough luck for the people who don't have their perfect waifu or manfu as a romance option. Maybe those people should just play different games (e.g. dating sims or something along those lines) instead of trying to get their romance fix in an action-RPG.

 

I don't think that, if Bioware ever decides to include a trans romance, they would go the route of not telling the player until after the romance is complete.  That would please no one.  If they ever do add in a trans romance, I suspect that it will be the DA team that implements it first.  They seem to be less conservative than the ME team. 

 

I agree that you'll never make everyone happy with them.  And I don't support the 2/2/2 approach as a way to make everyone happy.  Because that's impossible.  I personally prefer the 2/2/2 approach because it seems as if it might be a nice way to mitigate the whole "[blank] got more options than I did" thing.  At least on an objective level.  There will still be people who try to use their subjective views ("I don't like this option, so I don't count them") as a basis for complaining.  Objectively, 2/2/2 would be the most fair.

 

That being said, I'm personally fine with any of the following options:

• No romances for anyone (the BG approach; although it wouldn't be my preferred choice; I could live with it if I needed to)
• Everyone gets one option (there's never been a game that went this way); either four romances (one straight guy/gal; one gay guy/gal) or two romances (one bisexual guy and one bisexual gal)
• Everyone gets two options (the DA2 vanilla approach; either all 4 bisexual romances or the 2/2/2 split; I'm good with either route)
• Everyone gets two options and some people get more options (the ME3, DA:I approach; fine, but it would be nice if the 'bonus' got split around more and it wasn't always the same demographics getting them)

What I don't want to see is:

• Some demographics get multiple options and others get no options (the BG2, NWN, KOTOR, ME1, ME2, SWTOR approach) because that sucks for those people to be left out
• Some demographics get multiple options and other get only one option (the JE, DA:O approach) because it sucks to have all of the content riding on one option when others get multiple options.  If you are going to give choice, give it to everyone.

That's really how I see it.

[Rykoth]

We obviously don't know the squad lineup. But here's the thing.

 

I want it to be portrayed right. The courting that DAI had, but with the kind of interaction the first ME and 3rd ME had. I also say, don't shy away from male or female nudity in the love scenes. Keep it tasteful, but don't be afraid of displaying it. DAI was a step in the right direction. I want to feel like I'm playing an R-Rated Science Fiction Epic, and quite frankly, dry humping makes it seem childish and juvenile. If you're gonna display parts of the love scene, do it right. Otherwise, keep it fade to black, and show them under the sheets if you plan on hiding the bits rather than already clothed and standing up again.

[Lumix19]

I don't think that, if Bioware ever decides to include a trans romance, they would go the route of not telling the player until after the romance is complete.  That would please no one.  If they ever do add in a trans romance, I suspect that it will be the DA team that implements it first.  They seem to be less conservative than the ME team. 

 

I agree that you'll never make everyone happy with them.  And I don't support the 2/2/2 approach as a way to make everyone happy.  Because that's impossible.  I personally prefer the 2/2/2 approach because it seems as if it might be a nice way to mitigate the whole "[blank] got more options than I did" thing.  At least on an objective level.  There will still be people who try to use their subjective views ("I don't like this option, so I don't count them") as a basis for complaining.  Objectively, 2/2/2 would be the most fair.

 

That being said, I'm personally fine with any of the following options:

• No romances for anyone (the BG approach; although it wouldn't be my preferred choice; I could live with it if I needed to)
• Everyone gets one option (there's never been a game that went this way); either four romances (one straight guy/gal; one gay guy/gal) or two romances (one bisexual guy and one bisexual gal)
• Everyone gets two options (the DA2 vanilla approach; either all 4 bisexual romances or the 2/2/2 split; I'm good with either route)
• Everyone gets two options and some people get more options (the ME3, DA:I approach; fine, but it would be nice if the 'bonus' got split around more and it wasn't always the same demographics getting them)

What I don't want to see is:

• Some demographics get multiple options and others get no options (the BG2, NWN, KOTOR, ME1, ME2, SWTOR approach) because that sucks for those people to be left out
• Some demographics get multiple options and other get only one option (the DA:O approach) because it sucks to have all of the content riding on one option when others get multiple options.  If you are going to give choice, give it to everyone.

That's really how I see it.

Sounds reasonable to me. Plus 2/2/2 I feel helps in terms of diversification of roles and story arcs. Having straight/bi/gay relationships cut out limits our choices and some people really enjoy playing different roles and experiences.

[Gramorla]

I dislike the ME2 romance options more because of there "final win snusnu scene" character. And many of the NPC (esc. Tali, Garrus and Thane) had so littel to say, regardless if there where are LI or not.

 

Somehow Legion had a lot more "talks" after missions, what you can miss completely when you hadn't enough mission "left" after picking him up. Or Samara. I have count it.

 

It feel better in ME3 with the littel banters (at least better than "Calibrations, Calibrations ...").  I really like it who the NPC chance her positions and/or chat together via com.

It would by nice if you find the LI somtimes in your cabin, (sleeping, reading, watching movies, or occupy the bathroom (if there is something like that in ME:A), etc.. doing things they wouldn't do if there where "just" friends.

[Quarian Master Race]

Military environment? Yeah somewhat. But the Normandy houses an illegal AI, is commanded by a Spectre who was imprisoned a few weeks ago and the squad consists of some alliance soldiers, a quarian admiral, a turian special advisor, an asari with a doctor in archaeology and the prothean avatar of vengeance. Oh and the ship AI. Joker checked and there are no regulations about relationships with the ship AI (what a surprise ). Donelly and Daniels pursue their relationships only with the commander´s blessing. Leaves Ash and Vega at the party. Ah well she is a Spectre so who cares. Tough luck for Vega if his commanding officer cares about that.

 

The Normandy never was a warship run according to miltary standards. You have a quarian working on the super secret drive in ME 1 and several squaddies, who aren´t part of the military. Ok you are a Spectre and this ship is on loan to the council or whatever explains the messy double loyalties.

You are assuming I am okay with the illegal AI as well. I'm not. It should not have been forced upon the ship. The option should have been given to either reprogram its "shackles" or turn it into the Alliance. It is incredibly dangerous to allow it the freedom it has over the lives of everyone on the ship, (and by extension of the ship's mission everyone in the galaxy) when it could serve its cyberwarfare purposes just fine without walking around in a disturbing sex toy body and being given full access to every critical system on the ship (including life support, for example). However, the writers were more interested in pushing transhumanist nonsense than actually allowing the player to think for themselves when it comes to AI's so unfortunately it stays.

Allied foreign officers serving on ships is not unheard of in the real world, so I don't know how you cite that as an example of it not being run to military standards. These officers are subject to the same regs as whatever CoC they are serving under. A German naval officer can't just shag an American crewman in the gun battery or the engine room if she is serving on a foreign ship and expect to get away scot free, so that isn't an excuse. The Alliance clearly has regs against that sort of behavior because both Ashley and Kaidan mention them, and that would apply to anyone serving on the ship.
http://www.navy.mil/...?story_id=82904

Yeah, Joker said there's no regulation against the ship's AI, because that totally makes it okay. Nevermind that the implication on crew performance is exactly the same even if we are taking for granted that EDI is analogous to a lifeform (which according to Council law it isn't), something analogous to a declaration like that in the real world would get one thrown in a mental asylum. You don't just go and tell your commander that you want to stick your dick in your computer's diskdrive, because that's pure insanity. I wanted to put that delinquent in a goddamn straightjacket and lock him in the brig, but unfortunately I could simply discourage his weird urges (but not actually call him out on it). 

Donnely and Daniels wasn't as egregious. You could side with the sensible Donnely (who was simply trying to do his duty) and it went nowhere, but Daniels shouting the kind of crap she was in full view of her commander should have been grounds for an invocation of whatever the Alliance analouge to Article 80 is. Ashley/James is similar in this regard, though in fairness they were inebriated and you can discourage them successfully. Added to that it only happens in Citadel, which is a sort of fanservice joke that isn't supposed to be taken entirely serious anyway.

Tali/Garrus is utterly stupid simply for the health reasons (especially for the former). What's gonna happen if I need one of their technical skills for a mission but they are too busy pissing blood and puking (or worse) in the damn med bay because of cross species snu snu related complications or diseases? What happens if said mission fails and people die because the mission was relying specifically on their expertise in their MOS? What happens if they put each others lives over that of their more important Commander at a critical moment and doom the entire war effort? The fact that they then tried to hide it after being caught is grounds for discharge and disciplinary action in and of itself. It's one thing for a Shepard to form such a relationship with one of them, it is after all his/her ship, and responsiblity for the mission thus falls on them as would the consequences should anything go wrong. Ultimately, that is the captain's call to make (even if it is a bad one) given the authority invested in them. It is an entirely different story when two subordinates go behind their commander's back, engaging in fraternization that isn't simply dangerous for the typical reasons but also has grave health concerns that could easily impact the success of the mission. All that, and we weren't even given the option to disapprove or discourage it in any way (other than kill or bang one of them ourselves), let alone kick them off the damn ship back to their respective fleets and replace them with professionals who won't put getting their rocks off over the lives of potentially every sapient being in existence.

That doesn't even get into how these forced relationships are totally OOC in many cases. The actions or sudden, inexplicable character derailment of Joker, Garrus and Tali in particular make no sense given previous characterization (hatred of AI's, racism against quarians and a supposed culturally ingrained concern for crew safety at the expense of oneself respectively), but that is another discussion entirely. It's a losing battle either way, as clearly a majority of the fanbase doesn't want these games to be taken seriously. I like the jokes and lighthearted humour like Citadel in appropriate doses, but ME3 tended to far in the direction of pantomime silliness even in the main game when the ship becomes the SSV Loveboat. I'd rather they didn't continue that trend. I can suspend disbelief for the player, but not for half of the ship acting like unprofessional morons. At least always include an option to disapprove or discourage.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

We obviously don't know the squad lineup. But here's the thing.

 

I want it to be portrayed right. The courting that DAI had, but with the kind of interaction the first ME and 3rd ME had. I also say, don't shy away from male or female nudity in the love scenes. Keep it tasteful, but don't be afraid of displaying it. DAI was a step in the right direction. I want to feel like I'm playing an R-Rated Science Fiction Epic, and quite frankly, dry humping makes it seem childish and juvenile. If you're gonna display parts of the love scene, do it right. Otherwise, keep it fade to black, and show them under the sheets if you plan on hiding the bits rather than already clothed and standing up again.

 

 

You aren't playing an R rated game though, you're playing an M rated game. That likely won't change.

 

I agree they should find a way to portray romances so they don't come off as awkward or formulaic. Talk, talk, talk, bang before the final mission seems to be how they design their romances, at least in previous games. DAI was better, so hopefully they will continue to make improvements.

 

As for making people happy with 'equal representation', well that will never happen because you can't possibly make everyone happy, as noted in other posts above.

[Dantriges]

Allied foreign officers serving on ships is not unheard of in the real world, so I don't know how you cite that as an example of it not being run to military standards. These officers are subject to the same regs as whatever CoC they are serving under. A German naval officer can't just shag an American crewman in the gun battery or the engine room if she is serving on a foreign ship and expect to get away scot free, so that isn't an excuse. The Alliance clearly has regs against that sort of behavior because both Ashley and Kaidan mention them, and that would apply to anyone serving on the ship.
http://www.navy.mil/...?story_id=82904

 

Funny that you mention the german military. You can shag within the same service group, same rank, outside your rank or whatever as long as it´s not on duty, an intrusion into a marriage or registered partnership of a fellow comrade or if you are secretly doing it with your direct superior.

 

So Ash and Vega would be ok as it´s off duty and none of your business and IMO spectre rank should supersede any previous held rank anyways as the whole point of it is "rulings don´t apply as long as you get the job done, enjoy the perks, you don´t get paid anyways. If someone besides the council says different you are free to gun him down."

 

Well it seems that alliance regulations are more strict than the german ones but they don´t have to be a direct copy of US regulations.

 

In Tali´s and Garrus case you could make say that it´s on duty but well no idea how Tali and Garrus fit into a military command structure anyways. Garrus is what? A civilian contractor, friend who joined because you asked him?

The quarian navy probably doesn´t have any regulations in that area because it´s a hassle to actually get into physical contact on duty and their military and civilian structures are tightly entangled.

Anyways even if you want to go all alliance regulations on their relationship, the answer would be "So what you wanna do Shep? Your navy is a ragtag band commanded by the one dude who didn´t get killed, we are en route to a likely horrible death on Earth and so yeah did make out one time before we die. Do you want to throw us in the brig now?"

 

But actually i agree, these feeble attempts trying to tell a military war story were a joke. We don´t even know exactly how these spectre-commander thing actually works in a military command structure. In ME 1 it was "Hi, here´s Hackett, I know I can´t order you but could you pretty please," in ME 3 it was "Commander your mission is xy." ME 2 ah well, "terrorist Shep reporting for duty TIM until/unless we doublecross each other."

[Chealec]

...

 

Don't be surprised or disappointed, if we get same old, same old with romances.

 

...

 

I won't be as that's pretty much what I'm expecting anyway.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Tali/Garrus is utterly stupid simply for the health reasons (especially for the former). What's gonna happen if I need one of their technical skills for a mission but they are too busy pissing blood and puking (or worse) in the damn med bay because of cross species snu snu related complications or diseases?

 

Garrus would be fine, he won't have an allergic reaction to Tali. A turian is safer for Tali than a human, too. Except for the chafing.

[N7Jamaican]

Garrus would be fine, he won't have an allergic reaction to Tali. A turian is safer for Tali than a human, too. Except for the chafing.

 

I want to see Fleet & Flotilla now.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I want to see Fleet & Flotilla now.

 

Skip the musical numbers though.

[N7Jamaican]

Skip the musical numbers though.

 

Wouldn't it have been awesome to see maybe like a 2-3 minute cinematic of Fleet & Flotilla though? Cause I freaking love the ME universe.

[Quarian Master Race]

 

Funny that you mention the german military. You can shag within the same service group, same rank, outside your rank or whatever as long as it´s not on duty, an intrusion into a marriage or registered partnership of a fellow comrade or if you are secretly doing it with your direct superior.

 

So Ash and Vega would be ok as it´s off duty and none of your business and IMO spectre rank should supersede any previous held rank anyways as the whole point of it is "rulings don´t apply as long as you get the job done, enjoy the perks, you don´t get paid anyways. If someone besides the council says different you are free to gun him down."

 

Well it seems that alliance regulations are more strict than the german ones but they don´t have to be a direct copy of US regulations.

 

In Tali´s and Garrus case you could make say that it´s on duty but well no idea how Tali and Garrus fit into a military command structure anyways. Garrus is what? A civilian contractor, friend who joined because you asked him?

The quarian navy probably doesn´t have any regulations in that area because it´s a hassle to actually get into physical contact on duty and their military and civilian structures are tightly entangled.

Anyways even if you want to go all alliance regulations on their relationship, the answer would be "So what you wanna do Shep? Your navy is a ragtag band commanded by the one dude who didn´t get killed, we are en route to a likely horrible death on Earth and so yeah did make out one time before we die. Do you want to throw us in the brig now?"

 

But actually i agree, these feeble attempts trying to tell a military war story were a joke. We don´t even know exactly how these spectre-commander thing actually works in a military command structure. In ME 1 it was "Hi, here´s Hackett, I know I can´t order you but could you pretty please," in ME 3 it was "Commander your mission is xy." ME 2 ah well, "terrorist Shep reporting for duty TIM until/unless we doublecross each other."

German regs are irrlevant, because we know what the Alliance ones are, and those are what the Normandy and anyone assigned to it would be operating under.

Throw them in the brig? Possibly not, but I damn sure wouldn't want people who displayed such blatant lack of respect for regulations, professionalism and respect for their Commander (due to trying to hide their on duty fraternizing) anywhere near important roles on the ship or in the squad, because they clearly aren't suited for it. Send them back to their own fleets and get replacements who are going to take their jobs seriously in the middle of a war.

Garrus would be fine, he won't have an allergic reaction to Tali. A turian is safer for Tali than a human, too. Except for the chafing. 

Actually, It could potentially be worse due to the fact that they share chirality and can supposedly contract diseases from one another, rather than Tali simply having hypercytokinemic reactions to a levo species. Think about how easily human populations can be wiped out simply by the introduction of diseases from other humans that they haven't been exposed to. Raan mentions being sick for a week just for syncing suits with another quarian, so a different D-acid species with unfamiliar diseases would likely be much more dangerous. Another example is the Fleet and Flotilla film where the quarian actress supposedly was supposedly down and out for 3 weeks due to filming a scene with a turian. Garrus is potentially at less risk from quarian microbes, but that doesn't mean none at all. Either way it is an utterly stupid risk to take in the middle of an extremely important mission for the sake of what is supposedly a "fling", and it makes them both look like brainless, horny teenagers instead of what are supposed to be professional soldiers.

But this is biower so that is all irrelevant. They simply ignore logic and their own lore when it gets in the way of feels, jokes or rule of cool, and Garrus/ Tali get derailed into acting OOC like juvenile schoolchildren as a result because "aww team dextro soo cute."

[N7Jamaican]

I thought the whole Garrus and Tali relationship was a bit weird, but expected.  If Tali wasn't romanced, you could see something developing between those two in ME2.

 

But no relationship ME series was any weirder than Garrus and FemShep... Awkward!

[Quarian Master Race]

 

I thought the whole Garrus and Tali relationship was a bit weird, but expected.  If Tali wasn't romanced, you could see something developing between those two in ME2.

 

But no relationship ME series was any weirder than Garrus and FemShep... Awkward!

I thought it was really last minute and lacked buildup. In ME1 they hate each other. Garrus makes outright racist comments toward Tali, while Tali makes impertinent gibes at Garrus's supposedly messed up priorities. In ME2 Tali gets annoyed when Garrus trolls her on the Citadel and there isn't a hint of sarcasm about it, otherwise they don't really speak at all in missions or unique dialogue on hubworlds. They then cram the whole of the buildup into a few radio conversations between the two in the last half of the last game. At least with Joker/EDI and Donnely/Daniels you could see them developing over the course of two games in repeated banter.

And yeah, turian-human romances don't make a lot of sense to me from a physicality standpoint. The species look nothing alike and there should be no biological programming working there, so FemShep making the kind of comments she does in ME2 almost completely focused on casual sex comes off as sort of creepy fetishism. I guess one could say the same for Tali considering that quarians are so humanlike in appearance. Just seems like the MEverse version of furrydom.

[N7Jamaican]

 

 

I thought it was really last minute and lacked buildup. In ME1 they hate each other. Garrus makes outright racist comments toward Tali, while Tali makes impertinent gibes at Garrus's supposedly messed up priorities. In ME2 Tali gets annoyed when Garrus trolls her on the Citadel and there isn't a hint of sarcasm about it, otherwise they don't really speak at all in missions or unique dialogue on hubworlds. They then cram the whole of the buildup into a few radio conversations between the two in the last half of the last game. At least with Joker/EDI and Donnely/Daniels you could see them developing over the course of two games in repeated banter.

And yeah, turian-human romances don't make a lot of sense to me from a physicality standpoint. The species look nothing alike and there should be no biological programming working there, so FemShep making the kind of comments she does in ME2 almost completely focused on casual sex comes off as sort of creepy fetishism. I guess one could say the same for Tali considering that quarians are so humanlike in appearance. Just seems like the MEverse version of furrydom.

 

 

I've felt Tali/Garrus felt more like a brother and sister, than... boyfriend and girlfriend.

[Dantriges]

 

German regs are irrlevant, because we know what the Alliance ones are, and those are what the Normandy and anyone assigned to it would be operating under.

Throw them in the brig? Possibly not, but I damn sure wouldn't want people who displayed such blatant lack of respect for regulations, professionalism and respect for their Commander (due to trying to hide their on duty fraternizing) anywhere near important roles on the ship or in the squad, because they clearly aren't suited for it. Send them back to their own fleets and get replacements who are going to take their jobs seriously in the middle of a war.

 

I mentioned them because not every military is following american procedures and well we only know that Alliance personnel is forbidden from fraternizing not what the rules are for non military personnel on board the ship. As far as we know it´s acceptable on turian warships* and no clue what quarians do. it doesn´t matter anyways because they aren´t military personnel transferred from an allied fleet but friends with guns you invited over to kill some reapers. You asked them personally to join your squad, not their military to transfer them to your ship. So you want a replacement for the two friends you have an issue with, because they broke regulations of a military that went down in the opening salvos of this war?

You aren´t getting them because you broke proper military procedure by inviting freelancers on your ship and you are doing it since ME 1. No one issued a formal transfer document for them.

 

They probably didn´t even want to disrespect you, they know you from your time when you took Cerberus money, blew up the Collectors and turned yourself in only after your rampage through the Terminus systems (including killing 300k civilians if you played Arrival). How should they know that you are now upholding regulations. 

 

Proper military procedure flew out of the window in ME 1 and never came back.

 

*No we don´t actually know but Garrus didn´t mention that his fling with his sparring partner was forbidden and considering that full contact is allowed along with several other activities to blow off some steam.

[BioWareMod01]

Hello everyone. Please keep it on topic and civil so the thread can remain open. Thank you.

[Quarian Master Race]

 

I mentioned them because not every military is following american procedures and well we only know that Alliance personnel is forbidden from fraternizing not what the rules are for non military personnel on board the ship. As far as we know it´s acceptable on turian warships* and no clue what quarians do. it doesn´t matter anyways because they aren´t military personnel transferred from an allied fleet but friends with guns you invited over to kill some reapers. You asked them personally to join your squad, not their military to transfer them to your ship. So you want a replacement for the two friends you have an issue with, because they broke regulations of a military that went down in the opening salvos of this war?

Too bad, you aren´t getting them because you broke proper military procedure by inviting freelancers on your ship and you are doing it since ME 1. No one issued a formal transfer document for them.

 

They probably didn´t even want to disrespect you, they know you from your time when you took Cerberus money, blew up the Collectors and turned yourself in only after your rampage through the Terminus systems (including killing 300k civilians if you played Arrival). How should they know that you are now upholding regulations. 

 

Proper military procedures in ME, that´s an even bigger joke than the big dump Shepard can make on proper law enforcement. I am a spectre I can legally shoot a dude already in police custody or punch him until he talks.

 

*No we don´t actually know but Garrus didn´t mention that his fling with his sparring partner was forbidden and considering that full contact is allowed along with several other activities to blow off some steam.

You weren't paying much attention then. They aren't "freelancers" unless you count an exiled Tali and they certainly aren't "friends with guns you invited over". Both are members of their respective militaries in the middle of a war, so you can be damn sure they aren't going anywhere that hasn't been explicity approved if those organizations operate with any sort of formality. Do you not remember that Rael'Zorah sends an email informing Shep of approving Tali's transfer request in ME2 and informing you that additional duties to the Fleet may be required? Do you think that Admiral is somehow a civilian position? Tali's position is unquestionably a military one. Now, Garrus's exact position in ME3 isn't elucidated, but people in the military CoC up to the rank of General salute him which shouldn't at all be taking place were his position a civilian one. His team created by Fedorian is called a "Task Force", a term invented by the US Navy and used primarily in NATO militaries. Further, we see that he takes his orders directly from Victus and observes military protocol in relations with him. He answers directly to the Turian Military. Anyway, this is all pretty much irrelevant given that there is really no such thing in Turian culture as a "civilian" outside of client races and children as described in the codex, of which Garrus is neither.

Just because we aren't taking a few hours after Menae and Rannoch fliing the paperwork and they didn't discuss it due to it being pretty much a plot irrelevant formality doesn't mean that we can assume that Garrus and Tali just decided to go AWOL. That's utterly ridiculous. No, it isn't explicitly written anywhere that foreign officers serving on an Alliance vessel would be subject to the same regs as Alliance personnel, but it is a reasonable conclusion considering that it would defeat the purpose of said regs in the first place if they could be circumvented in such a manner, which is why it doesn't happen that way in actual militaries (such as the German officer in the US Navy that I gave as an example). Moreover, this all misses the point entirely. Even if it somehow weren't against regs it would still be highly unprofessional for potentially jeopardizing the outcome of the mission, which is the real issue I have with it.

Shepard doesn't actually "ask" either of them as you are claiming, they impose themselves. You are given no choice in the matter (except killing them), and they aren't necessarily "friends" unless you want them to be. In fact, you can even state "she's not my friend" to Chambers, act completely business with or even like a total douche to Tali at pretty much every oppourtunity, and at one point she can even refuse to talk to you as a result of it.  Garrus doesn't get the same range of options, no (bad design IMO), but can be ignored entirely outside of his forced recruitment mission in ME2. I don't see why such choices should stop (at least in the former's case) simply because the writers assumed I would find their interactions cute, and especially given that you can do so in other similar situations during the game.

Comparing the easily justifiable actions of ME2 and Arrival (which Shepard is rightfully disciplined for upon turning themself in, mind you) in stopping the Reapers and allowing the plot to progress, to an irrelevant fling that has literally no importance to anything and is not justifiable in any way given the mission is a bit silly. Shepard was technically no longer part of the Alliance military upon his/her death, and wasn't reinstated until the beginning of ME3 anyway, so the point you're making would be moot even if it existed. Further, insulting the concept of Specter authority isn't going to help you, because no one on the ship but the protaganist (and later Ash/Kaidan) has it so it doesn't at all apply here. I don't see how that is relevant to the situation being discussed at all apart from attempting to discredit my argument through another red herring aimed at your perception of the inauthenticity of the setting. Fraternization is treated as an issue in ME1 yet by ME3 we can't even protest against our subordinates doing it as the Commander of the vessel. It is inconsistent writing.

[Gramorla]

When playing DA:2 again last year, i realized that my dislike for all romances in this game came from the characteristics of the NPCs.

 

That all of them are BI is second-rate confusing. But that all of the possible LI in DA:2 appear to be mental unstable is deterrent ... in my opinion. Isabella is the most balanced of them, the borderline misantroph pirat with relationship phobia.

 

Maybe the Garrus romance is so populare because he seem to be stable and supportive.

[ffejita]

More romance options, have characters go on actual dates. Hell, I wouldn't even mind putting in some dating sim elements. It'd be more realistic and engaging than just talking to the characters and having them automatically fall for you

[Chealec]

More romance options, have characters go on actual dates. Hell, I wouldn't even mind putting in some dating sim elements. It'd be more realistic and engaging than just talking to the characters and having them automatically fall for you

 

Hmmm with the notable exception of one gay couple I know, most people who've been in long-term relationships (over a decade) have got there from friendships that have just sort of evolved rather than from any kind of artificial situation like "dating" - talking and going out just sort of evolves from going out as mates to going out as a couple. Then again, I spent years on the Goth/EBM club scene in the UK where relationships tend to be ... shall we say, varied... and often complicated - but when they work, they tend to last (the couple that plays together, stays together as the saying goes)

 

Mass Effect kind of attempts that but there's always some kind of "issue" that you have to resolve along the way.

 

Keeping things professional should also be an option of course but if you want to evolve a relationship in-game it should happen organically rather than as some kind of reward for completing X, Y or Z side quest; through conversation events, fighting side-by-side (who you have beside you on mission), who you spend time with on shore leave... and so on. How technically feasible that is though... yeah, maybe not.

[Dantriges]

 

Comparing the easily justifiable actions of ME2 and Arrival (which Shepard is rightfully disciplined for upon turning themself in, mind you) in stopping the Reapers and allowing the plot to progress, to an irrelevant fling that has literally no importance to anything and is not justifiable in any way given the mission is a bit silly. Shepard was technically no longer part of the Alliance military upon his/her death, and wasn't reinstated until the beginning of ME3 anyway, so the point you're making would be moot even if it existed. Further, insulting the concept of Specter authority isn't going to help you, because no one on the ship but the protaganist (and later Ash/Kaidan) has it so it doesn't at all apply here. I don't see how that is relevant to the situation being discussed at all apart from attempting to discredit my argument through another red herring aimed at your perception of the inauthenticity of the setting. Fraternization is treated as an issue in ME1 yet by ME3 we can't even protest against our subordinates doing it as the Commander of the vessel. It is inconsistent writing.

 

 

Rightfully disciplined? Wrong address. In most cases you were a spectre unless you declined or blew up the council and chose Udina. And the proper council procedure would be to send another spectre to put a bullet in your head. If you actually paid Bioware extra to commit a war crime. Anyways, my point was, that Shep didn´t turn over his new ship, built using secret military design, until he was done. The Normandy never was a real warship following military guidelines. Wrex said it correctly, it´s a circus or freak show full of highly dangerous freaks armed to the teeth but still.

 

Are you really complaining about my "perception" of the inauthenticity  of the setting (actually I complain about the inconsitent writing) and complain about inconsistent writing afterwards?

 

Ah well Tali is admiral when you meet her, ambassador on the citadel and as I said it doesn´t have the same meaning anyways as civilian/military authorities are more entangled in quarian society. We also haven´t got a mail from anyone in ME 3 confirming her second transfer. So is this mail from daddy six months ago relevant?

 

I just find it a bit hard to follow that it´s such a big thing that two soldiers/friends/whatever violate possible regulations of a military, they don´t beong to, that doesn´t really exist anymore of a nation which doesn´t have any governmental structures left at that time and lost its homeland. The joint chiefs/general staff/defense committee are dead, the parliament is dead, the president, too. The government in exile, councilor Udina turned traitor and got killed, the seat of the galactic government where th last piece of Earth gov was located is in enemy hands. Shepard is pretty much the last one alive who was seen exercising governmental functions. If we look more closely, the Alliance Navy doesn´t really seem to be a military anymore but a resistance movement. Anderson putting up a fight on earth, Hackett doing fleet operations&magic lollipop construction and Shepard doing politics.

 

You are about to engage an enemy outnumbering you a 100 to 1 and they have far superior tech. At the eve of what could be the last sign of futile resistance two people look for comfort in each other´s arms. I´ll let it slide even if it was in violation of something I stopped caring about three years ago and which doesn´t exist anymore.

[KaiserShep]

 

 

I thought it was really last minute and lacked buildup. In ME1 they hate each other. Garrus makes outright racist comments toward Tali, while Tali makes impertinent gibes at Garrus's supposedly messed up priorities. In ME2 Tali gets annoyed when Garrus trolls her on the Citadel and there isn't a hint of sarcasm about it, otherwise they don't really speak at all in missions or unique dialogue on hubworlds. They then cram the whole of the buildup into a few radio conversations between the two in the last half of the last game. At least with Joker/EDI and Donnely/Daniels you could see them developing over the course of two games in repeated banter.

And yeah, turian-human romances don't make a lot of sense to me from a physicality standpoint. The species look nothing alike and there should be no biological programming working there, so FemShep making the kind of comments she does in ME2 almost completely focused on casual sex comes off as sort of creepy fetishism. I guess one could say the same for Tali considering that quarians are so humanlike in appearance. Just seems like the MEverse version of furrydom.

 

 

I'm gonna say right now that FemShep getting with Garrus would be like Wikus hooking up with Christopher Johnson. Chitinous body armor with mandibles and other not nice protrusions and pointy things. At least asari have the option of fondling their mates on a metaphysical level.