782 réponses à ce sujet

[Jock Cranley]

It could be as classy as Far Cry Blood Dragon:

 

[Battlebloodmage]

I like the "slow building" relationships. If the game is again a trilogy, I would like having romances start from the second game too, like Tali and Garrus. As long as the "new" romances added later in the game are already known characters, even better if companions of the first game. As much as I liked Jack, I have to admit she lack the build up of characters like Liara, Garrus and Tali.

 

And there is one thing I can a little understand (understand, not share) about the girls who didn't like kaidan revealing he is BI. Is a little of jelousy, I think. MaleShep is so special that make even characters became gay for him, other than having already basically all the ladies minus one, and not having to be humiliated by one drunken night stand (one not even consensual from the player) cheating (with remind of the almost sure barren state of FemShep) and inavoidable death of the LI. Sometime I have the feeling ME3 was written by insensible fratboys, if Garrus wasn't in the game.

 

I see mostly a "recycled romance" with Kaidan, the "let's make him BI as we thought in the first game but scrapped, so we don't have to make another gay character". But for many the effect may seem "MaleShep is better than FemShep".

To be fair those prefer gay romance doesn't care about the female LIs they have, and most of the dialogues and scenes are copy and paste from Femshep with less scenes in between, so they're a lot shorter because the scene is originally for Femshep but changed to fit Maleshep. ME doesn't care about gay romance or females. It's pretty straight male centric. I'm wondering how this game will go in term of romance distribution.

[Felya87]

To be fair those prefer gay romance doesn't care about the female LIs they have, and most of the dialogues and scenes are copy and paste from Femshep with less scenes in between, so they're a lot shorter because the scene is originally for Femshep but changed to fit Maleshep. ME doesn't care about gay romance or females. It's pretty straight male centric. I'm wondering how this game will go in term of romance distribution.

Point of view of (some, I think few) female players. That I don't agree with.
As I said, I agree about the fact that Kaidan gay romance is, sadly, the recycled female romance. But I can see how someone who play mostly femshep can feel, with all the bad stuff happening in the straight female romances, as if Kaidan is "taken away", as stupid as it sound. Or as maleshep having a "Magic D" while femshep is the most unwanted female by any male around. ^_^'

[Battlebloodmage]

Point of view of (some, I think few) female players. That I don't agree with.
As I said, I agree about the fact that Kaidan gay romance is, sadly, the recycled female romance. But I can see how someone who play mostly femshep can feel, with all the bad stuff happening in the straight female romances, as if Kaidan is "taken away", as stupid as it sound. Or as maleshep having a "Magic D" while femshep is the most unwanted female by any male around. ^_^'

To be fair, at least you have LIs from the beginning, M/M doesn't have one until the third game, and the option is an NPC who grief over his husband and a recycled Femshep option. Those with MShep who prefer M/M romance doesn't care about how many options female LI they have, and they basically go without an option for 2 games with shoo-in options in the third games with an NPC and an inferior option (copy and paste with less scene). How do you think they feel?

[Felya87]

To be fair, at least you have LIs from the beginning, M/M doesn't have one until the third game, and the option is an NPC who grief over his husband and a recycled Femshep option. Those with MShep who prefer M/M romance doesn't care about how many options female LI they have, and they basically go without an option for 2 games with shoo-in options in the third games with an NPC and an inferior option (copy and paste with less scene). How do you think they feel?

Have I said I agree with this kind of thinking? Because I've said many times I don't agree with it. So, or I have written it differently that what I intended, or you are misinterpreting it.
I was happy about (finally!) the integration of gay romances in ME3. But that doesn't take away how many playes who prefer playng a straight female shepard have felt like slapped in the face many times in just one game. I think having choices taken away is worse than not having them at all.
At least, there isn't the feeling of having played two games for nothing. Thing that happened to me playng a femshep who let kaidan on virmine and romanced thane. I still haven't played that run in ME3, since I don't want my shep a "forever alone", and I don't want to make her BI, since I always envisioned her as straight.
As sad as the feeling of a recycled Kaidan is, at lest gay shep have always cortes. He may not be ideal, and not a companion, but he is there without metagaming.

[Panda]

I don't see problem with recycled romance scenes? Or is this about lacking romance scenes in comparison to other gender's romance with same character? Cause I don't think any bisexual character from Bioware has had different scenes when romanced with PC that is male or female.

[Battlebloodmage]

I don't see problem with recycled romance scenes? Or is this about lacking romance scenes in comparison to other gender's romance with same character? Cause I don't think any bisexual character from Bioware has had different scenes when romanced with PC that is male or female.

There are many scenes that were cut off in the MShep romance with Kaidan like during the love scene, the hand to face interaction, the butt scene, the Citadel entering, etc. Yes, it's copy and paste with less scenes. I'm ok with making the scenes different but it's basically cut off certain scenes that make MShep look feminine which would make it obvious that it's from FShep. Instead of making new scenes which make it different but equal, they cut out scenes without replacing it, making the romance inferior. I don't even think they want t add it in the first place, but it's more likely pressures from Bioware higher up and EA. 

[Panda]

There are many scenes that were cut off in the MShep romance with Kaidan like during the love scene, the hand to face interaction, the butt scene, the Citadel entering, etc. Yes, it's copy and paste with less scenes. I'm ok with making the scenes different but it's basically cut off certain scenes that make MShep look feminine which would make it obvious that it's from FShep. Instead of making new scenes which make it different but equal, they cut out scenes without replacing it, making the romance inferior. I don't even think they want t add it in the first place, but it's more likely pressures from Bioware higher up and EA. 

 

That sucks. However in general I don't think bisexual romances should have different scenes for different sexes and I haven't really seen any BW game to have things like that.

[Battlebloodmage]

That sucks. However in general I don't think bisexual romances should have different scenes for different sexes and I haven't really seen any BW game to have things like that.

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't have different scenes. I'm saying that instead of cutting scenes, they should make different scenes instead, otherwise, keeping all the scenes and make them equal.

 

One of the thing about bisexual scenes is that the model and actions are very gender neutral. Poses and actions and everything. It's very evident if you switch Cullen's scene with inquisitor for a male. He would sway back and forth and very feminine or the scene with Garrus for a male which has the same result. That's the main reason why many of Kaidan scenes were removed because it makes MShepard very feminine. It seems that with bisexual scenes, all the poses and actions are kept to be very gender neutral. That's why actions that make male characters feminine are often being reduced or avoided. While bisexuals don't have to be different, I would be in favor of making it a bit more gender specific because a person would have different reactions when being around male or female.

[karushna5]

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't have different scenes. I'm saying that instead of cutting scenes, they should make different scenes instead, otherwise, keeping all the scenes and make them equal.

 

One of the thing about bisexual scenes is that the model and actions are very gender neutral. Poses and actions and everything. It's very evident if you switch Cullen's scene with inquisitor for a male. He would sway back and forth and very feminine or the scene with Garrus for a male which has the same result. That's the main reason why many of Kaidan scenes were removed because it makes MShepard very feminine. It seems that with bisexual scenes, all the poses and actions are kept to be very gender neutral. That's why actions that make male characters feminine are often being reduced or avoided. While bisexuals don't have to be different, I would be in favor of making it a bit more gender specific because a person would have different reactions when being around male or female.

 

That makes sense, but some of those scenes you mentioned were gender neutral, and Kaiden and f!shep had several times they said they loved each other, while M!Shep and kaiden I don't think have any? But yeah, if they cut one part, make a new scene but different, but not every scene. I will admit annoyance when I romanced Josephine and realized all the proportions were off in cutscenes for every race because the programming was made for the male characters, so it being the same, OR 2 seperate scenes would be nice.

[Charoleia]

 

I'm all for less LIs. One hetero, one bi and one homosexual per gender is fine. Or go full bi like in DA2, I would love it. Also, I would prefer less squadmates. DAI gave me too many. It's hard to get to know all 9 characters when half of them is in banters.

 

 

 

I loved DA2. Happy to see someone else who does too

What I hated the most in DA2 though were the LIs. Not the romance themselves which were fine, but the fact that everyone and their uncle swung both ways and - apart for Isabela - for no reason. Especially Anders who was the worst : if Hawke is a woman, he's straight. If Hawke is male, Anders is gay. Changing the sexuality of a character depending of the gender of the PC ? That is terrible, terrible writing.

Never again, please.

 

I wish too that romances could be more like in DA:O : sex doesn't have to be the ultimate reward, it's just part of the romance.

 

In ME1, it made sense for Kaidan and Ash : they are soldiers, they are rules against fraternization, so if it wasn't for the suicide

mission/impending death it would probably never have happened. At least, not on the ship, and not on duty hours

For Liara, meh.

 

In ME2, meh for all. Why just before the suicide mission ? If anything, I thought my Shep had better things to do than banging 10 min before going all Valkyrie on the Collectors but maybe that's just me ? x_x

 

Same for ME3. Even though in the case of Kaidan, I always thought it was implied it happened "off-screen" a few times even before the actual "love-scene". So in his case, it was just a last "comfort-scene". Which was perfect.

But with Garrus.... I don't know... I could nearly hear my Shep asking if it would always take a suicide-mission-against-a-galaxy-threatening-enemy- to get him in her bed

 

And even though I'm all for tasteful scenes like in ME1, I would not mind a LI with no love-scene. Whether it is implied and not showed, or simply never happened, why not if it's well written ?

 

I remember Sebastian was never considered a romance in DA2. Because there was no love-scene. Funny, because I felt he was as much a romance as the others... the only thing missing was a comfort scene when Hawke's Mom went RIP

But the banter with a romanced Sebastian when Bethany is around (especially in MoTA and Legacy) is so priceless ! ("Bethany ... ? "Yes, sister ?" "BACK OFF !" :'D)

 

So that's what I 'd want for ME:A :

 

- If someone is bisexual, he/she is. No straight/gay depending of the gender of the PC (but I'm sure those days are over and were a consequence of time running out during the development of DA2 - but still, I needed to say it out loud x_x)

 

- If sex happens, not just/only before the final mission, please (Or not just after the one before last mission either v_v)

 

- Banteeeerrr !! I want some of the other squadmates to acknowledge the romance, whether they approve or not. Maybe not all of them, but.... banteeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr !!!! And yeah. Squadmates jealous/envious. And not necessarily over the PC ^^

[Charoleia]

Garrus got a lot more sexy time with femShep than Kaidan. Garrus and femshep have been sleeping in the same bed for a longer time period (pre-Citadel coup/before Kaidan can even join the crew) and he comments on her using her flexibility to show him more sexual positions from vids (app message). They got it on at the top of the Citadel after the shooting match (heavily implied), and they definitely did after that tango ("it gets even better in bed" or something like that). 

 

Ah my bad then, I did not remember that :x

Well I romanced Garrus once and Kaidan... I can't count how many times actually ^^ 

[Kakistos_]

I like a lot of what the OP said. I enjoyed the Mass Effect romances and in my opinion the Dragon Age romances had more content geared in that direction, particularly Origins. The difference between the DA and ME romances is that the DA romances felt more present. When they were initiated they colored the game from that point forward while I would say that the ME romances only colored the game at regular intervals along the way. That's my opinion.

 

My main experience with gaming romances has been in the DA and ME series. Is number 10 "Breakups and deaths of LIs are fine if that needs to be part of their story, however, unavoidable breakups and deaths of LIs and/or betrayals should not ONLY happen to the female player character." a trope I have missed or is this specifically referencing Solas? I can only speak to my experience in the DA series but if so, both male and female player characters can be similarly betrayed by multiple LI.

[HuldraDancer]

I like a lot of what the OP said. I enjoyed the Mass Effect romances and in my opinion the Dragon Age romances had more content geared in that direction, particularly Origins. The difference between the DA and ME romances is that the DA romances felt more present. When they were initiated they colored the game from that point forward while I would say that the ME romances only colored the game at regular intervals along the way. That's my opinion.

 

My main experience with gaming romances has been in the DA and ME series. Is number 10 "Breakups and deaths of LIs are fine if that needs to be part of their story, however, unavoidable breakups and deaths of LIs and/or betrayals should not ONLY happen to the female player character." a trope I have missed or is this specifically referencing Solas? I can only speak to my experience in the DA series but if so, both male and female player characters can be similarly betrayed by multiple LI.

 

I believe that one was more or less directed at that in ME3 two LIs you could carry in from ME2 leave you. One dies and the other cheats on you and it is unavoidable. The third one you can get from the second game you can't start a romance with them in the third game so in the third ME game it's very possible for a straight female shepard to have zero LIs, if they kill off a certain companion in the first ME and then don't romance the only loyal LI from the second ME game. I could be wrong but since this is a thread in the ME forum I assume that might be what they are talking about.

[Kakistos_]

I loved DA2. Happy to see someone else who does too

What I hated the most in DA2 though were the LIs. Not the romance themselves which were fine, but the fact that everyone and their uncle swung both ways and - apart for Isabela - for no reason. Especially Anders who was the worst : if Hawke is a woman, he's straight. If Hawke is male, Anders is gay. Changing the sexuality of a character depending of the gender of the PC ? That is terrible, terrible writing.

Never again, please.

I too loved DA2! And loved romancing Anders. Have to really. Hawke is my only canon protagonist that isn't single... Anyway I must contest your assertion that Anders' sexuality changes based on the PCs gender. To me it was always clear that he was bisexual. If your PC is female he doesn't mention to you that he and his Tranquil friend were once lovers but that doesn't mean that they never were. I also contest the argument others make that Anders' sexuality was changed from Awakening.

 

In Awakening Anders wasn't, nor were any of the new Wardens, romance-able but he did make several sexually charged comments on women. Of course that should not imply that he was ONLY interested in women, especially considering that he was not a romance option for either and was not as fleshed out as more prominent characters such as Leliana and Oghren. When we meet Anders again in DA2 his sexuality wasn't changed, it was expanded upon just like the rest of him. The same could be said of Merrill and Isabella who were both in Origins before being fleshed out in DA2.

[Kakistos_]

I believe that one was more or less directed at that in ME3 two LIs you could carry in from ME2 leave you. One dies and the other cheats on you and it is unavoidable. The third one you can get from the second game you can't start a romance with them in the third game so in the third ME game it's very possible for a straight female shepard to have zero LIs, if they kill off a certain companion in the first ME and then don't romance the only loyal LI from the second ME game. I could be wrong but since this is a thread in the ME forum I assume that might be what they are talking about.

OH! I forgot all about Jacob and Thane. #10 is very understandable. Thanks.

[BassStyles]

Thought I'd throw in my two cents on how I'd like romance handled.

Make it consistent and spread across evenly. What do I mean by that? If you are going to give the fan base someone who is romanceable, stay consistent with them if it carries across future installments.

Don't write it out because they weren't popular because if you advertised them as a potential partner, then you're going to have a fan base that will take you up on your offerings. I'm mostly thinking of Jacob and Jack from ME2 carrying over to ME3. I feel they got the shaft as far as content (pre-Citadel and even then for the Jacob fans)

Then spreading it across evenly kind of flows off what I just mentioned. Try and give everyone noticeable attention and detail to their relationships. You could argue that Liara had the most content, but Ashley was absent from two and most of three. Tali had good content but was absent from most of 3.

So essentially they should plan ahead and give everyone that they deem as romanceable quality screen time that is consistent across the series and if they do go a different route with a character in future installments, make sure it's written and integrated into the story in a way that won't irk some (can't please everyone) of those particular fandoms.

[Panda]

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't have different scenes. I'm saying that instead of cutting scenes, they should make different scenes instead, otherwise, keeping all the scenes and make them equal.

 

One of the thing about bisexual scenes is that the model and actions are very gender neutral. Poses and actions and everything. It's very evident if you switch Cullen's scene with inquisitor for a male. He would sway back and forth and very feminine or the scene with Garrus for a male which has the same result. That's the main reason why many of Kaidan scenes were removed because it makes MShepard very feminine. It seems that with bisexual scenes, all the poses and actions are kept to be very gender neutral. That's why actions that make male characters feminine are often being reduced or avoided. While bisexuals don't have to be different, I would be in favor of making it a bit more gender specific because a person would have different reactions when being around male or female.

 

The problem with Kaidan's scenes seem to be that they were first designed only thinking of female Shepard? If they were designed thinking of both Shepards I doubt there would have been need to cut scenes.

 

I don't really see problem with gender neutral scenes, they can be better than designing two different scenes. Cause two different scenes makes workload twice as big and this needs to be cut from somewhere. And same problem could happen than with having different walking animation for female and male character- outcome is very exeggarated and akward like with DA2 and DAI. So I think it's best to make same scene with both sexes.

[Kappa Neko]

I see mostly a "recycled romance" with Kaidan, the "let's make him BI as we thought in the first game but scrapped, so we don't have to make another gay character". But for many the effect may seem "MaleShep is better than FemShep".

Kaidan was made bisexual in ME3 because the gay community had been VERY vocal about it for years. It was simply fan service. Like Garrus and Tali.

And frankly, none of them are quite right for different reasons. I guess it's inevitable when developers add romances on people's request rather than go by how much sense they make.

 

On the one hand, it's nice that Bioware gave fans what they wanted, on the other hand, they did it with as little extra effort as possible in Kaidan's case. Whether one sees that as a good or bad thing is up for debate, I guess.

Kaidan's romance with male Shep was certainly half-assed, though I'm not sure that was the case because Bioware doesn't care about gay romances. Might simply have been budget reasons. If so,  including that option at all was nice of them...

 

I agree that Mass Effect was made with straight male gamers in mind. On the other, the only great romance in the game was Liara in the end for me - with femShep. Absolutely beautiful. Before ME3 I would have said Kaidan was by far the best romance, but then it  turned into such a disappointment. They turned him into a depressed mess...

 

At least Kaidan with male Shepard only suffered a lazy execution. Tali and Garrus are ridiculous romances that shouldn't have been possible. Yes, they are sweet, but should have been non-physical romances for obvious reasons. Tali could have died, it made Shepard look like a horny, irresponsible ass. Plus, the age gap made me feel like a pedophile. And Garrus with femShep is just creepy... I mean, how....? I really don't want to think about that. Plus, the sharp raptor teeth. That's nightmare material. Who would be attracted to THAT physically?? Seriously...

 

Then there's the issue with bodily fluids being toxic that I think they kind of retconned to cover up how utterly stupid those romances were.

I love Tali and Garrus, and yes, Garrus' personality is attractive. I would have been fine with an emotional romance only. But sex with either of them was the dumbest suggestion ever to me.

 

So I'm not sure fan service is a good thing. Get romances right from the start. Offer something PLAUSIBLE for everyone and be done with it.

[Charoleia]

I too loved DA2! And loved romancing Anders. Have to really. Hawke is my only canon protagonist that isn't single... Anyway I must contest your assertion that Anders' sexuality changes based on the PCs gender. To me it was always clear that he was bisexual. If your PC is female he doesn't mention to you that he and his Tranquil friend were once lovers but that doesn't mean that they never were. I also contest the argument others make that Anders' sexuality was changed from Awakening.

 

In Awakening Anders wasn't, nor were any of the new Wardens, romance-able but he did make several sexually charged comments on women. Of course that should not imply that he was ONLY interested in women, especially considering that he was not a romance option for either and was not as fleshed out as more prominent characters such as Leliana and Oghren. When we meet Anders again in DA2 his sexuality wasn't changed, it was expanded upon just like the rest of him. The same could be said of Merrill and Isabella who were both in Origins before being fleshed out in DA2.

 

I kind of disagree concerning Anders, but I respect your point of view

And I don't romance him anymore by the way. He and I don't really see each other in the eye after his little stunt on the Chantry, so... more Anders for you

 

Concerning female LI that leave and/or betrays the PC and/or die :

 

- DA:O : King Alistair dumps you or at best, agrees to keep you as his thing on the side ONLY if hardened (how romantic...) if you're not a female noble.

- DA2 : Sebastian leaves you (and swears revenge on you even) if you don't execute Anders.

- DA2 : Anders betrays you (let's call a shovel a shovel) and can even die. By your own hand.

- DA:I : Solas. What else.

- ME1 : Kaidan can die on Virmire.

- ME3 : Jacob dumps you and moves on while you are on custody on Earth.

- ME3 : Thane dies.

 

Male LIs :

 

- DA:O : Morrigan takes off. Unless you follow her in the Eluvian, she is lost on the Warden.

- DA2 : Anders, same as above.

- ME1 : Ashley can die on Virmire.

- ME3 : Tali can die on Rannoch.

 

I may have forgot something but I don't think so. But as you can see, there are more possibilities as a female PC to loose your LI than males.

[Charoleia]

And yes, I consider Alistair almost as an unavoidable break up if is King. The only way to avoid it is to say a specific line much earlier in the game. A specific line that I felt was pretty heartless and cruel if you are in a romance with him.

If you don't know that you have to say that specific line at that very moment, he will leave you if he is crowned, and there is nothing you can do about that.

[General TSAR]

Not including it? 

[Elhanan]

More variety in personalities, as I admired Eve a lot more than most females in ME3. Ashley had become a PTSD victim, Tali was an alcoholic co-ed, Liara was Dorothy from Kansas, Miranda was somewhat obsessive and homicidal, and EDI was off the market.

I prefer Aveline and Lace Harding as examples, too; friends first approach.

[Dantriges]

Tali was drunk two times and not really holding up well and she´s an alcoholic? That´s one more time than some of other the party guests.

 

Considering Shepard´s drinking habits (drinking hard shots in one go) and what s/he can drink and still function I would be more concerned about the commander him/herself.