782 réponses à ce sujet

[olnorton]

I think all LI's should be bisexual.
Not in the traditional sense, but if we have 6 squad mates (3 female,3 male)
They should all be attracted to the sex of the hero.
Femhero get 3 straight blokes & 3 lesbians to choose from.
If femhero is a lesbian herself, then early on in the piece she would be talking to a squadmate, point to one of her female squadmates & say " I'd like to be wearing those thighs as earrings " And from then on she could get all buddy buddy with the blokes without them coming on to her or becoming romance options.

This way everyone has at least 3 potential love interests to choose from.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Sorry I should have used the quote function, I was curious why you felt that ME's nudity was more questionable than DAI's?

I never said ME's nudity was more questionable than DAI's though. I didn't even mention nudity at all. I brought up DAI because I like how they finally made it so having sex in the romance could be either optional or left purposefully ambiguous so the player could decide how physical the relationship is, and I would like stuff like that in the Mass Effect romances. It has nothing to do with nudity, but how I like to roleplay my characters. I hope that helps clarify what I was saying. 

[Brass_Buckles]

Okay. I'm going to say this plain and simple.

 

Trying to drag in 'consent' into a virtual character having sex in a story written by someone else is really, really, really stupid. Don't do it.

 

I really don't want to get into all the reasons on why it's really, really stupid. So why don't we cut that short right here and now?

 

You can suggest that players can opt out of sex scenes. That has nothing to do with 'consent.'

 

Actually it does, in regard to what I want to do with my character, or what I don't want to do with my character.  For most of my characters, I'd be fine with a sex scene.  For some of them, maybe I wouldn't want them to have sex.  And yes, I am aware what lack of consent implies.  If I don't want my character to have sex, it does still apply; I am not given the opportunity to have my character deny that consent in any way other than breaking up with his or her romantic interest.  There is a problem with that.  Romance in a game (I am not naive enough to say this is true of real world relationships) should not hinge upon sex, and no one should be forced to play a sex scene to continue on with an in-game romance.  I repeat, consent matters.  Even in a game.

 

You are being rude and out of line in telling me what language to apply.

[BabyPuncher]

Actually it does, in regard to what I want to do with my character, or what I don't want to do with my character.  For most of my characters, I'd be fine with a sex scene.  For some of them, maybe I wouldn't want them to have sex.  And yes, I am aware what lack of consent implies.  If I don't want my character to have sex, it does still apply; I am not given the opportunity to have my character deny that consent in any way other than breaking up with his or her romantic interest.  There is a problem with that.  Romance should not hinge upon sex, and no one should not be forced to play a sex scene to continue on with an in-game romance.  I repeat, consent matters.  Even in a game.

 

You are being rude and out of line in telling me what language to apply.

 

I really hope you aren't suggesting that either you or your character are being raped unless a character has your personal approval as the player to do whatever is they do in the story.
 

Are you suggesting that either you or your character are being raped unless a character has your personal approval as the player to do whatever it is they do in the story?

 

Cause that's certainly what 'sex with a lack of consent' sounds like, doesn't it?

Modifié par BioWareMod07, 01 août 2015 - 10:41 .
Mod edit to remove inflammatory content.

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

If I don't want my character to have sex, it does still apply;

Romance in a game ... should not hinge upon sex, and no one should not be forced to play a sex scene to continue on with an in-game romance. 

So... er... you're basically just asking for at least one Josephine style romance then?  Or you want all of them like that with an added optional dialogue option to go into sex?

[Chardonney]

 

1. Breakups and deaths of LIs are fine if that needs to be part of their story, however, unavoidable breakups and deaths of LIs and/or betrayals should not ONLY happen to the female player character.

 

If there would be an breakup/betrayal/death of LI in ME:A, then it should not be unavoidable, no matter if you're playing male or female. You should be able to prevent that from happening with your actions or caused it to happen, which ever way one wants to go. I like that I was able to save Kaidan in ME1, to be able to sacrifice someone else so he can live. That's all I want; to make it optional.

 

Personally I don't like Solas - at all - but even if I did, I wouldn't romance him just because of the breakup. I wouldn't want to invest my time to a romance again (->Thane. Thank god for ThaneMod), just to get a slap in the face in the end.   

[Brass_Buckles]

I really hope you aren't tremendously stupid enough to be suggesting that either you or your character are being raped unless a character has your personal approval as the player to do whatever is they do in the story.
 

Are you tremendously stupid enough to be suggesting that either you or your character are being raped unless a character has your personal approval as the player to do whatever it is they do in the story?

 

Cause that's certainly what 'sex with a lack of consent' sounds like, doesn't it?

 

I'm not saying the game is raping my character, but I am saying it puts you into a really uncomfortable position if you want the relationship in the game but not the sex.  You should be able to say "No, I don't want sex," and then there's no sex.  If there is some other word for that other than granting or denying consent, then feel free to provide that proper language.  If you weren't too busy calling me stupid to pay attention to what I am actually writing, perhaps you would understand that.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

See the title.  This is a thread for suggestions and discussions.  No being rude, no bashing others for their opinions, please.

 

<skipped>

 

Whoa, there. No need to be that agressively feminist.

 

 

1. Equal numbers of romances, beginning to end, for male and female player character.  At least one option each for gay and lesbian player characters as well.

Good idea, I like it. Though quantity doesn't always mean quality.

 

Limit the number of romance options.  If the series follows one protagonist, allow romances to begin mid-series with the "base" romances from the first game.  If not, then you can have brand new romances every game and no one's going to mind that too much. 

 

Well, that's actually what ME developers usually do. Most romances are from the first/second game, with only a few short-term relationships.

 

If this is a series, rather than a single game, romances should build on the relationship through time, through ups and downs. 

 

I'd say a yes if not for the 'should' part. Variety is nice. Breaking up with a partner from the first game when playing a second sounds pretty  interesting for me. Specially if party members are going to change their attitude too much (just look what they've done to Leliana and Varric in DA:I).

 

1. It is very much not okay to take options away from straight women or LGBT people, while still leaving straight males with all of their options.

For now I can say that straight male gamers are the ones with LESSER choices to romance in last BW games. Specially if you take the Inquisition. Favoring female gamers or LBGT ones or prioritizing these groups over, let's say, straight male gamers is just about that wrong.

 

Equality doesn't mean YOU should have the privilege.

 

Breakups and deaths of LIs are fine if that needs to be part of their story, however, unavoidable breakups and deaths of LIs and/or betrayals should not ONLY happen to the female player character. 

 

Thanks. we got already that you're a female feminist one. Why don't you see that male gamers can lose LIs due to unavoidable breakups too? Miranda, maybe? Or Kelly Chambers? I liked her a lot, you know. 

Anyway, why focus on your particular group being offended if every group has some players not liking the sits? What kind of selfish is that?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So... er... you're basically just asking for at least one Josephine style romance then?  Or you want all of them like that with an added optional dialogue option to go into sex?

I would love if all future games have the romance format they used with Josephine for at least one of the love interests.

 

 

Thanks. we got already that you're a female feminist one. Why don't you see that male gamers can lose LIs due to unavoidable breakups too? Miranda, maybe? Or Kelly Chambers? I liked her a lot, you know. 

When does Kelly have an unavoidable breakup with Shepard? I've never had that happen.  

[Brass_Buckles]

So... er... you're basically just asking for at least one Josephine style romance then?  Or you want all of them like that with an added optional dialogue option to go into sex?

 

No.

 

I'm saying it would be nice if you could tell your LI you don't want sex, and then it doesn't happen, but you *GASP* don't break up with them over it.  It'd also be nice if you could *delay* the sex if you told them "not now" or something.  I know that's a lot of coding and unrealistic to expect that sort of effort put forth, so it's not likely to happen.  It's not a big deal to me personally but... yeah.  It'd be nice.

 

But barring that, at least one character for each orientation should just not have a sex scene, so people can imagine whatever.  I don't personally care one way or the other about the sex scenes.  I usually play having sex with the LI if that's how the story plays.  Doesn't bother me.  But it might be nice to play a character now and then who doesn't want to, and have that decision by me, the player, be respected in some way by the game.  As it stands, you don't have that option except with characters like Josephine or Solas, who just don't have sex scenes at all.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As it stands, you don't have that option except with characters like Josephine or Solas, who just don't have sex scenes at all.

Actually Dorian, Rainier, and Sera have their relationships being sexual as optional. I think I heard Cullen's is too.

The only romances in DAI where it isn't optional are Cassandra's and The Iron Bull's. 

[Panda]

So... er... you're basically just asking for at least one Josephine style romance then?  Or you want all of them like that with an added optional dialogue option to go into sex?

 

I think easiest way for Bioware would be make sex optional in romance and if your romance chooses not to have sex, most likely via dialogue option, the romance scene would either play differently (alternative romance scene would need to be animated) or simply end for kiss and couple words (little alternative content, but the scene without sex scene would lack in comparison). These should be rather viable, for example in DAO this would have been easy if only romance achievements weren't locked with sex scenes since otherwise you can say no to sex and still remain in relationship - though this option didn't have alternative scene.

[BabyPuncher]

I'm not saying the game is raping my character, but I am saying it puts you into a really uncomfortable position if you want the relationship in the game but not the sex.  You should be able to say "No, I don't want sex," and then there's no sex.  If there is some other word for that other than granting or denying consent, then feel free to provide that proper language.  If you weren't too busy calling me stupid to pay attention to what I am actually writing, perhaps you would understand that.

 

You certainly need to be using a smarter word than 'consent' when talking about this sort of thing. 

 

You, as the player, have absolutely no call whatsoever in whether your character gives sexual consent. None. Zero. If BioWare decides to write your character as someone who shags a hundred different people and gave consent for every one, that's what happened and that's the end of it, no matter how much you hate that as a player.

 

There is an ocean of difference between the very similar sounding statements of "I consent to my character having sex" and "I consent to sex." I would suggest you avoid the diction entirely.

[Fade9wayz]

Bha, make the Ark an orgy ship and be done with it. We're supposed to ensure the continuity of civilization after all

[Drone223]

No.

 

I'm saying it would be nice if you could tell your LI you don't want sex, and then it doesn't happen, but you *GASP* don't break up with them over it.  It'd also be nice if you could *delay* the sex if you told them "not now" or something.  I know that's a lot of coding and unrealistic to expect that sort of effort put forth, so it's not likely to happen.  It's not a big deal to me personally but... yeah.  It'd be nice.

 

But barring that, at least one character for each orientation should just not have a sex scene, so people can imagine whatever.  I don't personally care one way or the other about the sex scenes.  I usually play having sex with the LI if that's how the story plays.  Doesn't bother me.  But it might be nice to play a character now and then who doesn't want to, and have that decision by me, the player, be respected in some way by the game.  As it stands, you don't have that option except with characters like Josephine or Solas, who just don't have sex scenes at all.

I think rather reasonable for the PC to tell their LI that they don't want to have sex yet, in fact it could perhaps add some variety to how the romance between the PC and LI develops.

[Feybrad]

1. It is very much not okay to take options away from straight women or LGBT people, while still leaving straight males with all of their options.

For now I can say that straight male gamers are the ones with LESSER choices to romance in last BW games. Specially if you take the Inquisition. Favoring female gamers or LBGT ones or prioritizing these groups over, let's say, straight male gamers is just about that wrong.

 

Equality doesn't mean YOU should have the privilege.

 

Breakups and deaths of LIs are fine if that needs to be part of their story, however, unavoidable breakups and deaths of LIs and/or betrayals should not ONLY happen to the female player character. 

 

Thanks. we got already that you're a female feminist one. Why don't you see that male gamers can lose LIs due to unavoidable breakups too? Miranda, maybe? Or Kelly Chambers? I liked her a lot, you know. 

Anyway, why focus on your particular group being offended if every group has some players not liking the sits? What kind of selfish is that?

 

Okay.... okay... have to comment about that one.

 

No one here argues for one Group to have more Options than any other. This is literally the first Point mentioned in the Opening Post, I believe.

 

Secondly, only straight Women had more Options than the other Groups in Inquisition. LGBT People had the exact same Amount of Options as straight Men.

 

No Romance for a Player Group other than straight Females have ever experienced an unavoidable Breakup. The unavoidable Breakups/Deaths were Jacob, Solas and Thane, all of which were only available to straight Women. Miranda was not a mandatory Breakup, it is entirely possible to stay with her and keep her alive.

Kelly Chambers was never an actual full-fledged Romance as she didn't grant the Achievement. However, if you actually count her as a full-fledged Romance, then yes, that's the only "mandatory Breakup" that can be experienced by straight males (and everyone else, too.)

 

So yes, s/he did focus on that Group, because so far, only that Group had experienced that kind of Story. No other Group did. That's why it's specifically mentioned.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Kelly Chambers was never an actual full-fledged Romance as she didn't grant the Achievement. However, if you actually count her as a full-fledged Romance, then yes, that's the only "mandatory Breakup" that can be experienced by straight males (and everyone else, too.)

Actually, if you continue the romance from ME2 to ME3, Kelly will grant you the Paramour achievement for ME3.

And again, where does this mandatory breakup happen? I've romance Kelly and it has never happened for me. 

[BabyPuncher]

No one here argues for one Group to have more Options than any other. This is literally the first Point mentioned in the Opening Post, I believe.

 

I'm completely willing to argue that some groups should have more options avaliable to them than other groups.

[daveliam]

@Trev0s

 

Straight male games did not have 'lesser choices to romance in the last BW games" when compared to women and LGBT players.  That's absolutely incorrect.  The "last BW games" were DA: I, ME3, and SWTOR.

 

In DA: I, straight males had less than straight female humans/elves, but the same amount as LGBT players and straight female dwarves/qunari.

 

In ME3, there were 6 women that a male Shep could have been romancing in that game.  That's at least double than any other group. 

 

In SWTOR, straight males had eleven options.  More than straight women.  LGBT players had zero.

 

ETA:  Feybrad

[Brass_Buckles]

Whoa, there. No need to be that agressively feminist.

 

 

1. Equal numbers of romances, beginning to end, for male and female player character.  At least one option each for gay and lesbian player characters as well.

Good idea, I like it. Though quantity doesn't always mean quality.

 

Limit the number of romance options.  If the series follows one protagonist, allow romances to begin mid-series with the "base" romances from the first game.  If not, then you can have brand new romances every game and no one's going to mind that too much. 

 

Well, that's actually what ME developers usually do. Most romances are from the first/second game, with only a few short-term relationships.

 

If this is a series, rather than a single game, romances should build on the relationship through time, through ups and downs. 

 

I'd say a yes if not for the 'should' part. Variety is nice. Breaking up with a partner from the first game when playing a second sounds pretty  interesting for me. Specially if party members are going to change their attitude too much (just look what they've done to Leliana and Varric in DA:I).

 

1. It is very much not okay to take options away from straight women or LGBT people, while still leaving straight males with all of their options.

For now I can say that straight male gamers are the ones with LESSER choices to romance in last BW games. Specially if you take the Inquisition. Favoring female gamers or LBGT ones or prioritizing these groups over, let's say, straight male gamers is just about that wrong.

 

Equality doesn't mean YOU should have the privilege.

 

Breakups and deaths of LIs are fine if that needs to be part of their story, however, unavoidable breakups and deaths of LIs and/or betrayals should not ONLY happen to the female player character. 

 

Thanks. we got already that you're a female feminist one. Why don't you see that male gamers can lose LIs due to unavoidable breakups too? Miranda, maybe? Or Kelly Chambers? I liked her a lot, you know. 

Anyway, why focus on your particular group being offended if every group has some players not liking the sits? What kind of selfish is that?

 

If you would actually read the thread, you'd see that I pointed out I wanted equal options.

 

I am pretty sure Miranda doesn't actually break up with you in ME3, but I may be wrong; I never played her romance because I don't like Male Shepard's VA (and I didn't like her and her "I thought we should put a control chip in your brain" ways).  If she does, I'm sorry I didn't count her because I honestly had no idea that she broke up with male Shepard.  At least she's not pregnant with some other man's child though.  Or dead because Kai Leng.

 

Kelly Chambers is not a main, fleshed out romance, even if you did like her (I enjoyed talking to her but never had a fling with her), and she was also an LI for female Shepard so I guess a lot of ladies got dumped by her too, no?

 

You want to know who really has it rough?  Not you or I, but the gay guys who romanced Cortez.  They finally get a gay LI all their own and then he gets killed.

 

It was not possible for a male Shepard to start ME3 with zero romance options.  It was entirely possible for this to happen with a female Shepard (if she were straight).  No Kaidan?  Didn't romance Garrus?  Okay then hope you're a lesbian... otherwise you are out of luck, ladies...  While male Shepards still had their LIs from ME2 available to speak with, both Thane and Jacob were taken away.  One died, the other cheated on you and knocked someone up.  Did Miranda or Jack get pregnant with someone else's child?  No, of course not.  And even if Miranda broke up with you, at least she's still alive.

 

Traditionally, also, if an LI is going to abandon you, betray you, or die, it's going to be a man romanceable by women (and also sometimes gay men).  If this is considered too painful for men to handle, or if it's considered somehow worse to have these things happen to, or done by, female LIs, then as I said in my original post, it shouldn't be done at all.  Otherwise, it should be happening with female LIs as often as it does with male LIs.

 

Nowhere did I say women should have more romances.  This happened in Inquisition.  I'm not going to lie and pretend I'm not glad it did, because I had and continue to have zero interest in either Blackwall or Iron Bull.  Do I wish guys had equal options for DAI?  Yes, yes I do. I know a lot of guys were unhappy with their options, and the only reason I had an option I was happy with was because they decided last minute to add him.  So believe it or not I can empathize, because I can imagine playing the game with no romance options I wanted to try.  It's a minor part of the game, but in a way the game feels lonely without playing a romance.

 

Traditionally however it has been men who have had the advantage, and Mass Effect was no exception to that--especially ME3.

 

I notice you were happy to quote my note to not be rude, but you decided to be rude anyway and attack me for my personal observations and opinions.  For the record, yes, I'm a woman and yes I'm a feminist, and no, neither of those are really insults despite the fact that you seem to think they should be.  If you speak to me reasonably, without attacking and making attempts at insults, I am perfectly happy to be reasonable right back.  For instance, the Miranda thing.  I actually had no idea she broke up with the player.  You assumed I knew and was ignoring the fact.

[daveliam]

To be fair, Steve, Kelly, and Miranda's death are all optional.  You can avoid them.

 

I've never romanced Kelly, but it sounds like there's not an explicit break up scene either.  Just a lack of closure (she doesn't show up to mourn Shep; she's not involved in the Citadel DLC plot).  So while she certainly has considerably less content, there's not a railroaded 'end' like there is with Thane and Jacob.

[Grieving Natashina]

I'll add some more thoughts later.  I'm going to dig up my responses from your romance thread from last year, Brass.

 

Something that bothered me more than possibly zero romances in ME3 for the ladies.  More than Steve dying, which only happens if you don't get him to the Citadel and to the point where he's at the Memorial.  Do that, regardless of whether or not you romance him and he'll survive London.  

 

That's all one thing. How about the fact that if you're a single FemShep, and if you choose the wild party option, the game has you wake up next to Javik.  No other player agency allowed.  It's strongly implied that they slept together, judging from the dialogue.

 

"There is one things primitives are good at."
"Not another word."

 

Ha Ha.  Not funny developers.   Cute "joke," but I'm betting money that they would not have done that with a Sheploo and a female version of Javik.  That wasn't cool.  Oh and I wouldn't want them to ever do that to the male PC, for that matter.  Don't mistake me there.  It's something I never want to see any PC have happen without their input ever again.  Regardless of gender, the player should have a choice in such things.

 

I don't mean any disrespect towards the ME team.  If I didn't respect them and the game experiences they gave me, I wouldn't be here.  So I ask them, please, please, don't do that again.  That was pretty insulting to any FemShep that wanted to have no romance, or otherwise unknowingly blew their chances with any romance because they didn't have a guide.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

I'm a woman and yes I'm a feminist

 

Which is as obvious as it could ever be. i state it again - equality doesn't mean your particular group should have benefits. And I don't mean neither 'female' or 'feminist' an insult, it's just a reality statement.

 

As for the rest - I'm fine with a fact that you have an opinion on complicated matters. I just don't like the very opinion.

[BabyPuncher]

That's all one thing. How about the fact that if you're a single FemShep, and if you choose the wild party option, the game has you wake up next to Javik.  No other player agency allowed.  It's strongly implied that they slept together, judging from the dialogue.

 

"There is one things primitives are good at."
"Not another word."

 

Ha Ha.  Not funny developers.   Cute "joke," but I'm betting money that they would not have done that with a Sheploo and a female version of Javik.  That wasn't cool.  Oh and I wouldn't want them to ever do that to the male PC, for that matter.  Don't mistake me there.  It's something I never want to see any PC have happen without their consent ever again.  Regardless of gender, the player should have a choice in such things.

 

Agreed. With the vomit emoticon used very appropriately for once. I would be pretty angry if that happened on a serious playthrough.

 

Although I think it might happen to either gender, and with James if Javik isn't there.

 

Also, as I said up above, you should avoid using the word 'consent' around this type of issue.