782 réponses à ce sujet

[Battlebloodmage]

I think Harding isn't a romance because she have few scenes. If she had more, and had a more prominent role story wise, probably she would have ended up as a LI. But implementing a romance with her character at the same point Solas and Cullen were, probably it would have meant creating more content non-romance related for her, to not make her only (apparent) role as a romance. Much work, for something that BioWare didn't felt the risks were woth it (at least, since she was a dwarf. Again, BioWare allergy at romancable dwarfs   even if they create such lovable dwarf characters)

I really hope for future dwarfes romances, expecially if they keep the race selection. Dwarf+Dwarf is the only romance pairing I miss in DA, and I'd really love to make it one day  expecially because I adore play as a dwarf (my first male Warden, and first male character created in a game with chances to play both sexes was a male dwarf who romanced Morrigan. And is my second canon world state for DA.)

 

I believe Harding will be a prominent character in future DA games.

I don't think it would really be that much. They said that there is a romance budget, so any extra scenes for romance would have been used toward her just like with Solas and Cullen. She herself chat with the Inquisitor very often throughout the game. People have already loved her, and there are already various flirt options to hit on her. Her interaction is already aplenty. Even with just adding 2-3 scens exclusive for romances like with Cullen and Solas, she could very well be an option. 

[Hiemoth]

Well I agree. Vivienne was pretty much off-limits unless devs wanted to change her story. Leliana was pretty focused elsewhere and might have romance ongoing with Warden. Scout Harding would have been easiest option to expand as I romance I guess, but she wasn't really inner circle as much as advisors and companions so that's probably reason you can only flirt with her. Not sure though.

 

It simply was easier to expand stories of Solas and Cullen than do romance with female character. Though if Bioware really wanted they could have changed story of characters a bit to make one more female LI if they wanted.

 

I agree completely with your last point, but it again goes to the initial disparity. Both Cullen and Solas were added in a late stage, which is also a reason they were race-gated, so doing a massive rewrite would have been pretty much out the question. The initial distribution of romances was fair, they just didn't have the options for expansion.

[HuldraDancer]

More precisely, she was in a threesome with an ethero couple. That doesn't make her BI.

I find curious how if a woman have a treesome with another woman and a man, she must be BI, but if are two man and a woman the man aren't considered BI...

 

By the way, I'd like to see the chance to different approaches to the same romance. Like, having the romance go "phisical" before becaming romantic, romantic and than ending in bed, or being only romantic without having sex. But this with the same character.

I still love the Alistair romance because you can basically have different approaches: my preferred one was having the friendship between my warden and him rise, and than a slightl flirt from my warden, and he would present himself to her later in camp. Or I could have my character make her advances obvious in a very direct way. It depended on the character I was playng, and I found that fun.

 

Sorry hate barge in and everything but I could have sworn Jack said that she had girlfriends in the past in a passing comment. I forget exactly what it was but I do remember her mentioning, boyfriends and girlfriends. Which is why I personally thought she should have been bi and why I had thought most other people thought she was bi or should have been bi. If my information is wrong I apologize for cutting in and jamming my foot in my mouth^^;

[Felya87]

Sorry hate barge in and everything but I could have sworn Jack said that she had girlfriends in the past in a passing comment. I forget exactly what it was but I do remember her mentioning, boyfriends and girlfriends. Which is why I personally thought she should have been bi and why I had thought most other people thought she was bi or should have been bi. If my information is wrong I apologize for cutting in and jamming my foot in my mouth^^;

She (At less in the italian version) say she bedded women too, but in a manner of "oh, yeh, I've tried that too, plus drugs of every kind and a cult". For than explain she had sex with a couple that she felt had taken advantage of her.

I had seen the English speaking version one time, but I had the same impression.

[Helios969]

I'm gonna take the unpopular route(s) and say either romances should be divided according to the demographics or make the romanceable characters player-sexual so as not to waste resources trying to be "fair."  As much as I enjoy having the element present I think too much emphasis is being placed on romance content and not enough on gameplay mechanics, overarching story, and eliminating bugs (see DAI.)

 

Prospective player:  So how's MEA?  Is it good?

 

Player:  It's got two hot straight/gay/lesbian sex scenes!

 

Prospective player:  Yeah, but is it good?

 

Player:  Meh.

[Battlebloodmage]

I'm gonna take the unpopular route(s) and say either romances should be divided according to the demographics or make the romanceable characters player-sexual so as not to waste resources trying to be "fair."  As much as I enjoy having the element present I think too much emphasis is being placed on romance content and not enough on gameplay mechanics, overarching story, and eliminating bugs (see DAI.)

 

Prospective player:  So how's MEA?  Is it good?

 

Player:  It's got two hot straight/gay/lesbian sex scenes!

 

Prospective player:  Yeah, but is it good?

 

Player:  Meh.

Just make them all playersexual and be done with it. I like DA2 and Fallout 4 approach. No more complain about unfairness and who get more and they could just focus on the other aspects of the game. By nature, almost every game with romance out there is playersexual. They're into you regardless. The difference is Bioware has female characters which introduce male LI elements, thus complicating the issues. They should just ignore the complain and make everyone bisexual. You don't see as many people complain about bisexuality in games like Fallout 4 or Skyrim. 

[Sartoz]

Just make them all playersexual and be done with it. I like DA2 and Fallout 4 approach. No more complain about unfairness and who get more and they could just focus on the other aspects of the game. By nature, almost every game with romance out there is playersexual. They're into you regardless. The difference is Bioware has female characters which introduce male LI elements, thus complicating the issues. They should just ignore the complain and make everyone bisexual. You don't see as many people complain about bisexuality in games like Fallout 4 or Skyrim. 

 

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Seems like Bio created their own mess by expanding the romances. Now, the studio must develop the game with balanced romance options and even add strange ones.. All this time, costs and resources ought to be focused on the game and not on frivolity.  I can't possibly see the brief romance as a selling item. If the word nudity is what sells, then Bio can create cinematics of main characters taking a shower.. the saved romance dialogue can then be put to better use.

 

Really, the studio should stick with creating engaging and fun games. That alone is enough honey to entice gamers to buy them. I give you Call of Duty as a successful franchise without sex (and is rated M).

[Panda]

I'm gonna take the unpopular route(s) and say either romances should be divided according to the demographics or make the romanceable characters player-sexual so as not to waste resources trying to be "fair."  As much as I enjoy having the element present I think too much emphasis is being placed on romance content and not enough on gameplay mechanics, overarching story, and eliminating bugs (see DAI.)

 

Prospective player:  So how's MEA?  Is it good?

 

Player:  It's got two hot straight/gay/lesbian sex scenes!

 

Prospective player:  Yeah, but is it good?

 

Player:  Meh.

 

There actually is players who have got into ME and Bioware's case based on romance content and game being LGBT+ friendly.

 

Actually playersexuality takes quite lot resources as well, since Bioware needs to do same scenes twice in order to fit them with male and female character since there is different models of the characters. So making 4 playersexual/bisexual characters could be as or almost as resource-demanding as making 2/2/2 system. I also find it little immersion breaking if everyone is into both genders like in Saint Row 4 it felt little weird and like none of the characters had sexuality at all. Maybe that's just me though.

[Helios969]

There actually is players who have got into ME and Bioware's case based on romance content and game being LGBT+ friendly.

 

Actually playersexuality takes quite lot resources as well, since Bioware needs to do same scenes twice in order to fit them with male and female character since there is different models of the characters. So making 4 playersexual/bisexual characters could be as or almost as resource-demanding as making 2/2/2 system. I also find it little immersion breaking if everyone is into both genders like in Saint Row 4 it felt little weird and like none of the characters had sexuality at all. Maybe that's just me though.

Fine, if playersexual is not to peoples tastes then have the number of romance options based on demographics, which probably breaks down to 4/1/1 or something like that.  I'm guessing, suddenly, playersexual approach wouldn't be so bad.

[Panda]

Fine, if playersexual is not to peoples tastes then have the number of romance options based on demographics, which probably breaks down to 4/1/1 or something like that.  I'm guessing, suddenly, playersexual approach wouldn't be so bad.

 

Meh, people want options and not play with demographics. I play all f/m, m/f, m/m and f/f romances myself although I'm straight woman so demographs aren't really way to go. Especially when there is no info if straight people have more playthroughs than sexual minorities in general, you can only romance one character in the game after all. So going with demographics wouldn't be that player-friendly choice at least.

[Kmaru]

Really, the studio should stick with creating engaging and fun games. That alone is enough honey to entice gamers to buy them. I give you Call of Duty as a successful franchise without sex (and is rated M).

 

Call of Duty is an FPS not an Action/RPG. 

ME and DA are RPG video games, where player not only do they have choice in matter of where the stoty goes, but to live and experience an amazing simulator.

The reason i discover BW gales was only cause i read articles talking about, the wheel (dialogs options), impact of ur decisions (renegade/paragon) and of course the spicy romances.

 

Sci Fi RPG are not that much out there.

 

All player sexual is a great shortcut and can easily fit Bethasda game's world.

 

But Bioware offer a unique experience by exploring ur companions personal stories. We can't possibly compare a romance in ME (Kaidan/Liara....- Any Shepard) and the romances in Skyrim for exemple. Skyrim offers tons of player sexual romances, but that add nothing to the game's story honestly, it's just a nice option, a nice quest, a warm bonus.

 

Bioware is the best in term of romances and companions. They offer more than the male straight in a supposed RPG game like something of my knowledge, and far more than Skyrim and probably fallout 4.

 

The only thing that is better in Skyrim and Fallout is the number of romancable characters.

 

To conclude let's not compare ME to Call of Duty. They are not similar games.

[Illusve Dumbo]

More lesbian relationships and more deep love

[Illusve Dumbo]

And I wouldn't mind some jealousy

[Killdren88]

I'd say only give it the bare minimum attention and not worry about pleasing everyone. DA:I had that problem.

[karushna5]

There actually is players who have got into ME and Bioware's case based on romance content and game being LGBT+ friendly.

 

Yep, one huge reason the only RPGs I really enjoy is Bioware and Winterwolves stuff. Its the idea of focusing on the characters and the story rather than gameplay. And LGBT. I don't like shooters, but here I am, played a 3rd person trilogy right in a row and on pins and needles for the next one.

 

After dragon age I got into Mass effect for the characters, and because Liara was an option. Its not about sex or nudity, at least not for me, I just never get to see much media where women are romantic towards each other. Not to say that isn't changing, but it is rare enough that I have watched whole shows at a hint of it. Its common enough now that I don't chase after a show that just implies it. But I watched (and bought) 6 seasons of a show I was very meh about to get to the 2 seasons with a canon lesbian couple who never even kissed.

 

Its so rare to see in media, even less in video games where you can choose, that yeah I will buy a lot of things to have a romantic story of my preference. In fact, many people don't perk up when I suggest the games until I mention gay romances. Really, never underestimate what people will do to have a bit of romance in their tales. 

 

I got into Bioware because gay romances. Not what I appreciate most about them, but certainly what got me started.

[Tinxa]

I would like for the Lis to at least show some interest in the PC first.

 

I would REALLY like to avoid the feeling I am harrasing my subordinates like with Jacob and Garrus'  "Yeah I'll date you, it's not like there is anyone else around... Let me just get the human manual first" romance 

 

In ME1 Kaidan had dialogue and situations which showed he had a bit of a crush on the PC. Even though he was also under your command I never felt the romance was creepy like with Jacob.

[Kmaru]

Really, never underestimate what people will do to have a bit of romance in their tales. 

+1

Yup, i agree. It's the reason why i started playing DA. I start with ME3 as i said already. It was such an amazing experience a great feeling, difference, playing for the first time a video game that offers depth and diversity, and tasting like nothing else. I could not wait for ME4. I start digging on the internet, to find what is BW where are they from? in What world are they living and more important what other games did they developed : the result was playing DA:O (spicy Morrigan, cute Allistair, Terrific Wayne, Crazy Zevran, and exploring a crazy world that taste evil), DAII (great companions, it's one of the reason i can't say DAII is a bad game), DA awakening, DA:I, ME1...

 

If it was not for the depth of the story, specially the connections u may have and surely will have with ur companions and the romances (that is part of every human life (mostly) we all are in love with someone, or are dreaming to fall in love with someone) i would not have played any bioware games. Why they are hundreds of other video games on the market and they are all the same already.

 

Plus i absolutly adore the fact that BW tend to offer equality, race and gender. And they are still fighting for it.

 

BW offers to people regardless gender, race to connect to their games. That's what the present needs. A modern RPG game must have a character creation and must offer u choices about ur identity. It's a way for people to connect easily.

[Fixers0]

I think some people are being far to optimistic here, over 95% of the people who played Mass Effect did not do so becauese of the Romances and certainly not because Bioware was such a bold pioneer with same-sex romances. Romances in ME1 were purely a side dish , your main job is being the heroic space marine and if you want to you could either get into relation with a designated human squadmate or you could settle for the exotic alien babe. I for one, did not discover romances until well in my fourth playthrough, heck, it even took me two entire playthroughs to wrap my mind around the morality system. 

 

The point here is that people who are preaching about how important LGBT content for them is are really a tiny minority, it's an extra, that is hardly worth putting in any resources in, I doubt many people bought ME3 because they finally had a dedicated gay romances for both genders.

[Panda]

I think some people are being far to optimistic here, over 95% of the people who played Mass Effect did not do so becauese of the Romances and certainly not because Bioware was such a bold pioneer with same-sex romances. Romances in ME1 were purely a side dish , your main job is being the heroic space marine and if you want to you could either get into relation with a designated human squadmate or you could settle for the exotic alien babe. I for one, did not discover romances until well in my fourth playthrough, heck, it even took me two entire playthroughs to wrap my mind around the morality system. 

 

The point here is that people who are preaching about how important LGBT content for them is are really a tiny minority, it's an extra, that is hardly worth putting in any resources in, I doubt many people bought ME3 because they finally had a dedicated gay romances for both genders.

 

I'm not quite sure about the numbers. Seeing how romance threads are usually one of most popular threads in the BSN and romance is one of most spoken about topic elsewhere as well I'd say romances truly are one of BW's biggest selling points. Not biggest, but something that quite sets them apart from competition especially in terms of LGB+ content. Personally I bought the game for story and characters, not so much romances, though romances are main point for me to have multiple playthroughs. Otherwise I'd just play the game once like I do with most games. 

 

I think you are underestimating size of people enjoying LGBT+ content and romances in the game. Although they might be minority of the players of the game, they make large part of fandom and contributors of fanart and so on. Just look ME stuff on tumblr and deviantart, romances and LGBT+ stuff is popular. And like said in this thread it does bring new players to the series. Even if it wouldn't, it would be something for players who already play the game as well, for example gay romances in ME3 finally were romances for totally forgotten gay players who did get lot less content than others in previous games, because of lack of romance options for gay characters. It was simply move to right the wrongs of ME1 and ME2 or so I see it.

[Kmaru]

The point here is that people who are preaching about how important LGBT content for them is are really a tiny minority, it's an extra, that is hardly worth putting in any resources in, I doubt many people bought ME3 because they finally had a dedicated gay romances for both genders.

euh????

This topic is about how romance's can be better. Pointing LGBT is kinda weird, knowing that straight F/M would love to have much better content too.

Plus if u read well, u will see that some does buy BW games for the romance, some for the story, some cause they love sci-fi games, etc.

 

Again this topic is about better romance.

 

I don't really care about the number, but if u go there, in ur opinion how many players do the romances? how many male players are playing as femshep? whom are the most popular characters? etc etc.

 

Please do not reduce romances to lgbt or minority.

 

If u don't enjoy the romances, just help the topic by not posting negative comments. Or create another topic and ask bioware to supress romances.

[KaiserShep]

The point here is that people who are preaching about how important LGBT content for them is are really a tiny minority, it's an extra, that is hardly worth putting in any resources

 

The argument that it's not worth putting any resources into based solely on the assumption of how many people think it's actually important never really goes anywhere, especially since BioWare is obviously keen on continuing with this for the foreseeable future. But, going with the subject of this thread, the real question is: would BioWare's romances actually be better without them, and why? 

[RVallant]

 But, going with the subject of this thread, the real question is: would BioWare's romances actually be better without them, and why? 

 

That would be down to the player's personal view and the context of the story, but I think BioWare need to make such romances organic and natural. I think Traynor's romance was one of the more highly praised one precisely because of that. The DA romances / approach to the topic get flak because they come off as pushy and soapboxy, like a PC agenda. 

 

Mass Effect, taking place so far in the future is the better forum for that sort of thing, but I think the complaints don't so much come towards the straight/gay/lesbian relationships so much as they are focused on the fact that gay/lesbian/trans/gender-whatever is so in your face about the issue. "Look at me, I'm gay! Look at me I'm gender-trapped!"

 

That sort of thing is offputting, that's where I think a lot of the ire of people comes from, and if we exclude rule 34 and sweep aside the Bioware forums, I think the majority view outside of these areas are quite negative towards those portrayals. Course, you're going to have those people who can't progress with the times and hate LGBT stuff, but really I think in ME's time no one is going to give a **** if you're LGBT enough to go about bringing attention to it unless it absolutely needs to be (i.e. Traynor's rebuff of Male Shep) and if things are handled in that more natural, organic way, where things are accepted as a social norm and not a preachy morality tale, then even the more ardent anti-LGBT will have to shut up about it.

[Fixers0]

I'm not quite sure about the numbers. Seeing how romance threads are usually one of most popular threads in the BSN and romance is one of most spoken about topic elsewhere as well I'd say romances truly are one of BW's biggest selling points. Not biggest, but something that quite sets them apart from competition especially in terms of LGB+ content. Personally I bought the game for story and characters, not so much romances, though romances are main point for me to have multiple playthroughs. Otherwise I'd just play the game once like I do with most games. 

 

The Bioware forums are hardly representative for the average Mass effect player, tens of thousands of people who played the games have never even visited these boards, I think it's safe to say the regular posters of the Bioware forums account for less than 10% of people who played the Mass Effect 3. A good portion of people who picked up Mass Effect have moved on allready. Mass Effect 3 was especially streamlined in order to attaract more mainstream gamers.

 

That said, Mass Effect was never marketed with romances as primary feature as demonstrated by the fact that romances have always been optional. Once again people here are being way too optimistic on this matter, but people should recgonize it for what it is. Romances are a fun little side thing but it is hardly worth sinking resources into especially when the Devs have to account very every minor demografic.

 

I think you are underestimating size of people enjoying LGBT+ content and romances in the game. Although they might be minority of the players of the game, they make large part of fandom and contributors of fanart and so on. Just look ME stuff on tumblr and deviantart, romances and LGBT+ stuff is popular. And like said in this thread it does bring new players to the series. Even if it wouldn't, it would be something for players who already play the game as well, for example gay romances in ME3 finally were romances for totally forgotten gay players who did get lot less content than others in previous games, because of lack of romance options for gay characters. It was simply move to right the wrongs of ME1 and ME2 or so I see it.

 

Once again, what you may find on the interwebs is not very representative of what the mainstream gamer wants, or even the people who are intrested in the narrative like myself. And with your statements on gay romances, do you also believe it is wrong that the overwhelming majority of advertisments are aimed at and feature straight relationships? Of course it's not. ME's goal was never to be all inclusive, when you have to prepare emergency meals for 999 atheists and 1 muslim, it would absurd to devout disproportionate additional effort in preparing a single halal meal.

[Kmaru]

 when you have to prepare emergency meals for 999 atheists and 1 muslim, it would absurd to devout disproportionate additional effort in preparing a single halal meal.

 

And yet u have to, to be fair. As u are giving an exemple with food.

I would say u have to make all ur clients/customers/etc... happy. At least do the effort (cause we all know all of us fans can't be)

 

I'm glad that BW does think about those minorities. 

 

As u said romances are optional, So why complaining about romance if u don't like them and can avoid them? Seriously.

Again this Topic is about making romance better, not to waste ressources, or a debat about if romances should or should not be in the game. If romance are or aren't important.

 

They are in the game, same as any other content we are discussing here.

 

I have to find the link to the ME3 survey result.

[KaiserShep]

ME's goal was never to be all inclusive, when you have to prepare emergency meals for 999 atheists and 1 muslim, it would absurd to devout disproportionate additional effort in preparing a single halal meal.

Food analogies are always a little tricky, but it's curious that this one is framed around an emergency, which is a circumstance that basically makes it irrelevant. If this was just a restaurant, then it's simply a matter of whether or not the restaurant offers certain types of food for certain types of people. BioWare already serves this "halal", even if it's a shorter list at the end of the menu, and if people are still eating it, then, well, that's kind of the end of it.