Then the number of LIs is irrelevant, because the problem is how involved the characters are in the plot of the game. Whether there are 2 LIs who are or 8, the result would be the same.
I don't think it's irrelevant because the ability to involve the characters in the plot of the game decreases as the number of characters to be involved increases.
Include any variables from choices, and then you have to basically compartmentalize the romance arcs.
And sometimes Bioware even creates whole race to make one romanceable squadmate, that happened with Thane Krios 
It worked out quite well though, they ended up with three nice characters, lot of lore and quite nice alien race.
I don't think it's irrelevant because the ability to involve the characters in the plot of the game decreases as the number of characters to be involved increases.
Include any variables from choices, and then you have to basically compartmentalize the romance arcs.
Not true. Say they want six romances. Three can be with companions that are involved with the story and three can be with important NPCs that are involved with the story. There will be at least that many characters involved with the story, so both criteria have been met.
Steve Rogers... He's everything I think an awesome human LI for Mass Effect should be.
And I want something like this or rather a so called Quiet Wtcher, somebody who´s not that funny, does not smle at all, and with no self confidence to speak of, but when the main char gets into troubl, possibly even with the crew, shows up to be the most fierce of protectors - who jumps in front of a bullet to save them - not without thinkin, not because of love or IDK - simply a guardian who might and might not be content with who they are. And it´s gotta be a female. An ugly or not so sympathetic, liek GoT´s Brienne, c´mon BW, I have wnted that kind of character forever!
I can't help but think that if there weren't gay romances in first place, people like fixers0 wouldn't complain about them "ruining the story" (which is bull, by the way)
Fortunately I never made such a claim, there dozens if not hundreds of more plausable explanations for the shortecomings of the trilogy, I'm just weighing the possibilty that not doing certain romances and instead focusing writting efforts elswhere would have been potentionally benefical to the series. It's very much a long shot but I like to consider even possible option. As is I'm completly fine with most romance options.
Tell me, fixers0... do you use the same arguments with Witcher? Or you find it completely fine because it has only hetero romances?
Never played the games so I can't tell.
Fortunately I never made such a claim, there dozens if not hundreds of more plausable explanations for the shortecomings of the trilogy, I'm just weighing the possibilty that not doing certain romances and instead focusing writting efforts elswhere would have been potentionally benefical to the series. It's very much a long shot but I like to consider even possible option. As is I'm completly fine with most romance options.
Never played the games so I can't tell.
Why do people think romances are bad, when in fact they aren't even in the 10% of the game? And they're completely optional?
Not true. Say they want six romances. Three can be with companions that are involved with the story and three can be with important NPCs that are involved with the story. There will be at least that many characters involved with the story, so both criteria have been met.
I'm not talking about npc romances. Of which I don't really like because they do not feel as much a part of the story as your squad.
I'm talking about the difference between breadth versus depth. Six is not unreasonable, but it is the limit of what I would want to see with LI's. And all six are not going to be deeply involved in the story.
Any more, and the depth of their involvement is going to suffer. If for nothing more than a word budget. And if they are optional, then it is even harder to incorporate them into the main story in a powerful way.
I rather have a few quality romances that are involved in the main story, than a bunch of LI options that are cut off from anything else going on.
I'm not talking about npc romances. Of which I don't really like because they do not feel as much a part of the story as your squad.
Cullen, Josephine, and Leliana felt a lot more part of the story than most of our companions did. Joker and EDI felt a lot more part of the story than most of our companions did.
While I understand your position I can't get behind this because I know for a fact that Mass Effect 3's commercial succes wouldn't have been anything less if they hadn't included Cortez, Allers, Traynor and Bi Kaidan as romances because hardly any people bought the game for said romance options. Now if Bioware had invested the money from those romances into things like making war assets work better, give more consquence to choices, make priority earth better, etc I don't think most people who mind those romances being absent.
Where are we going here ????
Love Cortez, Adore Allers, Like a lot Traynor, and all of those Kaidan. Once again i started playing directly ME3, and i know a bunch of people in that same case, and a lot more i have conviced to play this game cause of the characters u quoted + EDI.
Just hate all the games that are limiting themselves to squadmates as if it were the entire world. Glad that BW extend it to some others. Probably if u have to choose between Jack, Grunt, Miranda and Traynor and co even I would choose the first spicy group.
Romances were hardly integral to the story of Mass Effect considering they were all optional. And personally Mass Effect 3 could have gone perfectly well without Traynor, Cortez and Allers, three less voice actors, and a lot less animating to do. EDI could fill most of Traynor's role and Cortez can simple be replaced by squadmate or generic pilot voiced by a stock actor. with these three characters gone the writing and development team could have devoted their time and effort into other matters.
I'm sure if James Vega was gay, the world of Male straight players would have crumbled down...
I agree EDI could fill most of Traynor's role, but u are missing a huge points here. All those characters add a more personal side of the story, to make it more human and horryfing the moment of ur final decision.
More characters in a video game never hurt on the contrary.
Plus i would have never replace Allers for anything in the world.
I have a question have u romanced anyone in ME? Why? and Who?
Here something to read with some quotes from Gaider's blog and interview :
http://gamerant.com/...omance-bioware/
Guest_Mon Chat_*
And sometimes Bioware even creates whole race to make one romanceable squadmate, that happened with Thane Krios
Which seems like such a waste to me because if you play ME3 without an import there are no drell at all and you never know anything much about the race other than servants of the hanar. They could have made Thane's role a male quarian exile we pick up on Illium who is trying to execute Nassana Dantius to save the workers (maybe he was one of those mistreated workers). In ME2 he could have provided an interesting contrast to pro-flotiila Tali and to Legion and the geth. His role in ME3 could have added to the Rannoch arc as well, and may have been interchangeable with Tali to save both quarians and geth.
Which seems like such a waste to me because if you play ME3 without an import there are no drell at all and you never know anything much about the race other than servants of the hanar. They could have made Thane's role a male quarian exile we pick up on Illium who is trying to execute Nassana Dantius to save the workers (maybe he was one of those mistreated workers). In ME2 he could have provided an interesting contrast to pro-flotiila Tali and to Legion and the geth. His role in ME3 could have added to the Rannoch arc as well, and may have been interchangeable with Tali to save both quarians and geth.
I guess, but I think Drell are worthy as species to get included in the series as well. I find them one of most intriguing species and Bioware really pumped them up with lore. It's quite shame how much culture, religion and society of Drells will be missed from players without that import. And these characters and stories of them? ME wouldn't be as good without Drells around even if there was only 3, they did made impact and more so than some other species like Hanar and Elcor.. at least to me.
Where are we going here ????
Love Cortez, Adore Allers, Like a lot Traynor, and all of those Traynor. Once again i started playing directly ME3, and i know a bunch of people in that same case, and a lot more i have conviced to play this game cause of the characters u quoted + EDI.
Good for you, well written characters are important but the unfortunante truth is that the masses don't buy video games because of a single character or romance.
More characters in a video game never hurt on the contrary.
Wrong. Proof: ME2.
Plus i would have never replace Allers for anything in the world.
You're genuinly the first one on this forum I've heard saying this.
I have a question have u romanced anyone in ME? Why? and Who?
Yes I have gone through multiple romance paths, thank you for asking.
No. Just no. It wouldn't.I'm sure if James Vega was gay, the world of Male straight players would have crumbled down...
Honestly, without my normal snide remarks to romance in general I think DA:O did the best to be honest. Not as in the number of LIs just how romance was done in general in that game.
Plus i would have never replace Allers for anything in the world.
I would. Way preferred Emily Wong than this Allers. Rip you beautiful thing, who had an useless offscreen death, I will always be buttmad about it.
Even Khalisah is better than Allers.
Honestly, without my normal snide remarks to romance in general I think DA:O did the best to be honest. Not as in the number of LIs just how romance was done in general in that game.
I think that Alistair and Morrigan were great romances, but Leliana and Zevran weren't anything special. They felt really disconnected and their romances had no impact on the main story. I just can't imagine anyway that they could have more than 4 romances that all had the kind of connection that Alistair/Morrigan did.
I think that Alistair and Morrigan were great romances, but Leliana and Zevran weren't anything special. They felt really disconnected and their romances had no impact on the main story. I just can't imagine anyway that they could have more than 4 romances that all had the kind of connection that Alistair/Morrigan did.
Connection to the main story. That's key. Really, really often, the most memorable romance story are intrinsically linked to the major plot. It gives them resonance, it gives them weight. I hope they have that in mind as they work on the arcs in this game.
I don't favor them simply for that because you could theoretically go through the game without even knowing you could romance them. It wasn't in your face. Unlike DA2 and DA:I where they basically had billboards on their heads with both their availability as a romance option and sexuality to boot. I liked DA:O's subtleness. You had to actually talk to them about the subject of romance.I think that Alistair and Morrigan were great romances, but Leliana and Zevran weren't anything special. They felt really disconnected and their romances had no impact on the main story. I just can't imagine anyway that they could have more than 4 romances that all had the kind of connection that Alistair/Morrigan did.
I think that Alistair and Morrigan were great romances, but Leliana and Zevran weren't anything special. They felt really disconnected and their romances had no impact on the main story. I just can't imagine anyway that they could have more than 4 romances that all had the kind of connection that Alistair/Morrigan did.
Eh, I was never really thought it mattered if the romance itself had any impact on the main plot. It's enough for me that the character reacts to it, and has dialogue/comments throughout the story. It's tough to get this sort of thing to really tie into the plot when most characters are optional. The fact that you can slit Zevran's throat before he even gets to speak kind of takes away any potential, but he has a fairly decent character arc near the end of the game if you allow him to live and keep him with you.
None of ME's romances were particularly connected to the main plot, and I generally found them to be far superior to Morrigan's. Liara, Garrus, and Tali, anyway.
So no, I wouldn't say it's key. The key is meaningful conflict and resolution.
Liara is pretty connected to the ME1 plot.
I think I might have gotten in trouble when choosing the word "key" specifically. I mean to say the connection to the plot is a significant factor in how memorable a romance arc can be, by sheer virtue of how much it can affect a play through.
this is a good thread. my suggestion is to increase dialogue with LIs on the whole. ofc the problem with this, is that one could ask, "well where does the game stop being a game and starts being a soap opera?"
well the thing about it is, i found that in previous ME games, there just wasnt enough dialogue with LIs on the whole. too much is left to your imagination from the moment you meet the person, to the moment you have sex with them.
=S
ME3 in particular did not address this well; they cut the squad size in order to make the interactions and relationships a little more personal, but that didnt rly happen did it? especially not with my chosen LI. neither did the tone of conversations we occasionally had, reflect certain aspects of the atmosphere properly.
so yes i'd like more conversation/content with my LI, i'd like a variety of LIs, equal number of options for straight/lgbt communities and balanced content for both genders. Women are fans of the game too and its not fair to cut their content short, for whatever reasons the developers may have.
the conversation/content with my LI should also properly reflect the atmosphere of the game. I want events in the game to be reflected in the conversations I have with my partner; impacting events such as freeing a species from oppressive rulers, deaths, promotions, new squadmates joining etc. think about that. in real life, i'd talk about those kindsa important things with my partner, and i'd expect them to want to talk to me about it as well. we're human, we'll be impacted by these things, some more than others.
i believe those things would really help immersion and would help to tell the story of the characters and develop the game even more.
EDIT: I want a LI who graduated from the N7 program please. because it looks like the PC would be an N7 graduate as well.
If they include something like this, I hope that the write it organically as part of the overall story.
I would. Way preferred Emily Wong than this Allers. Rip you beautiful thing, who had an useless offscreen death, I will always be buttmad about it.
Even Khalisah is better than Allers.
It would've been nice if helping Wong in ME1 affected whether or not she was in a position that gave her the opportunity to report from a warship. Dunno about Khalisah though. If there was going to be a reporter on the Normandy, Allers or someone like her would have to exist, since punching Khalisah possibly twice by ME2's conclusion kind of makes it weird that she'd want to be aboard lol.
Eh, I was never really thought it mattered if the romance itself had any impact on the main plot. It's enough for me that the character reacts to it, and has dialogue/comments throughout the story. It's tough to get this sort of thing to really tie into the plot when most characters are optional. The fact that you can slit Zevran's throat before he even gets to speak kind of takes away any potential, but he has a fairly decent character arc near the end of the game if you allow him to live and keep him with you.
I agree with this to a point, however I would argue that they still need to present in the story. For example one of the core things that really hurt the Zevran and Leliana was at the end, their romances had no position, they were barely acknowleged. If you bring either of them to the Archdemon fight and decide to sacrifice the Warden, there's nothing in the scene that reflects them while Alistair and Morrigan are allowed to have emotional scenes. To be fair, while I did really love the romances in ME3, this is something they slightly dropped the ball on before the Extended Ending and having the evacuation acknowledge the romance in a truly touching manner.
That is to me the true test of how well the romances are implemented, and something I hope ME team continues to try improve on. I don't need the LI to be connected to the plot, but I would the LI to present at those central points of plot, especially the ending, in some fashion. For example, one of the great moments for me with regard to the DA2 LIs was that the LI came to comfort Hawke after the death Leandra.
I don't favor them simply for that because you could theoretically go through the game without even knowing you could romance them. It wasn't in your face. Unlike DA2 and DA:I where they basically had billboards on their heads with both their availability as a romance option and sexuality to boot. I liked DA:O's subtleness. You had to actually talk to them about the subject of romance.
I just need to point out that Zevran will blatantly hit on you if you are man or a woman. Alistair will proclaim his love to a female Warden just if they have been nice to him. Leliana's romance can be really easily missed by a female Warden while with a male Warden Leliana will decide you are romantically involved if you are just nice to her. Morrigan's romance will only trigger after really blatant flirting. In addition, it is possible to only flirt with the possible romantic interests, unlike in DA2 or DAI.
There are a lot of ways I would describe the romances in DAO. Subtle is really not one of them.
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