782 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

I am 99% sure that the game doesn't force a single male Shep into a sexual encounter with Javik or Vega.  Perhaps I'm wrong, but I have never seen nor heard of that happening.  I can't imagine that if the game forced single male Sheps into gay sexual encounters there wouldn't have been a massive backlash.  Remember the backlash against Kaidan simply flirting with male Shep?

the game doesn't force you into an encounter with Vega, FemShep practically date rapes him.

 

And I don't think anyone was supposed to take the Javik thing seriously, seeing as how it is never referenced, ever.

[CircusDragon]

I actually don't have problem with LI unavoidable dying or leaving you. It can make great story and great tragedy and I liked Thane's romance a lot and was okay the way it ended (though I'd like to have game recognize more that your character is heartbroken after it). However LI dying or leaving you is something that needs to be written with lot of care in my opinion, more so than romance continuing, since it's easy to fail and make player feel horrible and like they chose wrong romance, because of it. Like Jacob's case who left your for anyone woman.. I don't think that made good story and most likely made you recret romancing him in the first place.

 

I'm coming out of lurking to say that I agree with this. Even if Kai Leng didn't kill him, Thane was dying. It's literally one of the first things he says to you! SO it made sense that he passed on in ME3. Solas breaking up with Inquisitor also made sense. If it tells a great story I can deal with some tragedy! Jacob's just an ass

[holdenagincourt]

I like the suggestions in the OP.

 

I think one thing I want is more left open to interpretation/imagination than in DA:I. I don't feel like I need the game to explain to me what my character's proclivities in bed are a la Iron Bull romance. Or, if they want to get that detailed, at least give the protagonist agency by letting them talk out sex with the partner (refusal and ending of the romance in the face of intransigent demands is not a dialogue). But really I would prefer it left up to interpretation. The Kaidan/male Shepard romance scene is perfect for this.

 

On a separate note, I don't personally believe conditional death of key companion characters is a healthful narrative device in an ongoing series. The suicide mission, despite being such a landmark video game climax, was pretty disastrous for romances in ME3. I feel like romanceable characters should either be plot armored or have a scripted death that is well-telegraphed far in advance (the former preferable to the latter, as the latter really cuts down on choice).

 

Really, ME3 was a good game for romance for me personally, so I think a lot of elements of it are worth retaining or adapting. However there were some major mistakes like Jacob and Thane that should be recognized in the autopsy, I think.

[The Ghost]

I agree mostly with the OP, with the exception of two points.

 

Have just one option for gay male and lesbian female, is rather limited... we should have at least 2... with the possibility of Bi-sexual characters... Looking at DAI original idea, having one certain option for both genders (speaking homosexually), 1 certain option for both genders (speaking heterosexually) and the rest being bi... of course I would like the indepth romance for both sexualities to be equal... I felt rather watered down with DAI, having Cullen and Cassandra as the most in depth romance options, but they being solely for heterosexual people... I felt left out with Dorian... so yea if there is going to be romance options, make them equally in-depth, not one being better than the other one... 

 

That and the second thing which I disagree with the OP... is that we should have this heartbreaking losses for LI's, but more equally spread... example, not just the females to go through such thing, but also the male protagonists... 

[Quarian Master Race]

Get rid of it and use the flood of tears to help with water scarcity problems in Africa. The BSN wins, Biower writers win, Sudan wins, puritans complaining about the fact that their character is having FTB sex in an entirely optional video game romance win (because it is no longer an option), happy ending.

[Fade9wayz]

I actually don't have problem with LI unavoidable dying or leaving you. It can make great story and great tragedy and I liked Thane's romance a lot and was okay the way it ended (though I'd like to have game recognize more that your character is heartbroken after it). However LI dying or leaving you is something that needs to be written with lot of care in my opinion, more so than romance continuing, since it's easy to fail and make player feel horrible and like they chose wrong romance, because of it. Like Jacob's case who left your for anyone woman.. I don't think that made good story and most likely made you recret romancing him in the first place.

Well, that's actually life. Sometimes you pick the wrong one, or you make a mistake, and you have regrets. I actually though it was a good way to deal with Jacob.

[Grieving Natashina]

the game doesn't force you into an encounter with Vega, FemShep practically date rapes him.

 

And I don't think anyone was supposed to take the Javik thing seriously, seeing as how it is never referenced, ever.

I know it was a joke.  It wasn't a funny one, and actually pretty insulting.

 

"Hur hur, let the player have a party where a single FemShep that never did a romance  gets drunk and then wakes up next to Javik!  Oh and let's be really funny and give them dialogue that they implied that they slept together.   Nah, don't give them any choice over it, because it's funny!  I know that most women would love having their character wake up next to Javik without their consent!"

 

"What do you mean that the male Sheps that stayed single should have the same joke?  That they could be single throughout the series if they wanted to and then be forced to wake up next to a squadmate against their will? That would be just offensive."

[Steelcan]

I know it was a joke.  It wasn't a funny one, and actually pretty insulting.

 

"Hur hur, let the player have a party where a single FemShep that never did a romance  gets drunk and then wakes up next to Javik!  Oh and let's be really funny and give them dialogue that they implied that they slept together.   Nah, don't give them any choice over it, because it's funny!  I know that most women would love having their character wake up next to Javik without their consent!"

 

"What do you mean that the male Sheps that stayed single should have the same joke?  That they could be single throughout the series if they wanted to and then be forced to wake up next to a squadmate against their will? That would be just offensive."

I'm not particularly interested in debating the merits of a crappy joke, so I'm just gonna leave it here

[Quarian Master Race]

Well, I thought the Javik joke was hilarious. One of the moments that actually got me to lol on my first no romance playthrough. I wish broshep had an analogue to it, preferably with Blasto.

If it bothers you so, don't invite Javik.

[Panda]

Well, that's actually life. Sometimes you pick the wrong one, or you make a mistake, and you have regrets. I actually though it was a good way to deal with Jacob.

 

I guess, but you would like game to be positive and entertaining experience in the end.

[Feybrad]

If it bothers you so, don't invite Javik.

 

Or don't have a wild Party. I've always preferred the quieter Ones anyways, no matter how much Jack complains.

[Wulfram]

I'd like to see less emphasis on sex in the romances.

Though to be fair ME3 was better than the previous games at being more than "we're horny and really want to have sex (even if it might kill me), but will only do it the night before the climactic mission."

[Quarian Master Race]

Or don't have a wild Party. I've always preferred the quieter Ones anyways, no matter how much Jack complains.

I prefer it as well (though I start loud and mellow it for more drunken goodness). The loud one really only has Grunt with an outstanding peformance IMO. The quiet one has drunk Javik, schwasted Tali, the SHEPARD conversation with Grunt/Wrex, and Garrus/ Zaeed booby trapping the apartment.

Oh, and Kasumi participates normally instead of acting out a racial stereotype.

[Kierro Ren]

A full nude form of a Turian lover? Hey... one can always dream...

[Kappa Neko]

Let's see...

 

- No more daddy or mommy issues that make the love interest seem weak/emotionally unstable

- Not having romances fix whatever issues the characters have

- Make romance a relationship between two equals, not have the LIs worship the hero like a schoolgirl

- This is not going to appeal to many people but: no more romances with aliens that should be goddamn toxic to the protagonist and/or physically totally incompatible (looking at you, Garrus and Tali)

- No more formulaic flirting with a sex scene as a reward before the endgame, be more like DAO

- Don't make squadmate dialogue shut down when you reject them

- Make dialogue reflect being in a relationship more, don't use exactly the same lines for friendship and romance, use words of affection, teasing

- Have your crew acknowledge the relationship

- Don't make the romances only about sex and being in love, have them bond over other things than finding each other hot

- Would be cool to have the option to choose a background for your PC like Shepard and then have that background open up a certain romance option (they could have done that wonderfully with Jack and Mindoir femShep...)

- Make characters unromanceable if your character's personality doesn't work with the LI's personality (Liara and full-blown renegadeShep? Please.)

- Have LIs break up with your character if you insult their core values repeatedly

- Stop with the virgin fantasy

- For male LIs: please stay away from too much gloom and doom and heartbreak

- Very personal request: give me male Liara, somebody deeply loyal but independent and affectionate (kinda like Alistair with more confidence). Emotionally stable! Not a guy with trust issues, self-esteem issues and/or depression (Kaidan, you turned into such a disappointment)

- Or: give me straight Dorian and somehow keep the sass. Or somebody like Joker. A FUN GUY who's committed.

 

That would be my personal list.

[Fade9wayz]

I guess, but you would like game to be positive and entertaining experience in the end.

Not necessarily. It depends if it's fitting. Not every character will react, or even have the same perspective on romance than the player. For Jacob, it was very fitting

[Panda]

Not necessarily. It depends if it's fitting. Not every character will react, or even have the same perspective on romance than the player. For Jacob, it was very fitting

 

Game should be entertaining to player. I doubt many people who romanced Jacob were happy with that end for their romance especially compared to content many other Shepard's had.

[Quarian Master Race]

I'd like to see less emphasis on sex in the romances.

Though to be fair ME3 was better than the previous games at being more than "we're horny and really want to have sex (even if it might kill me), but will only do it the night before the climactic mission."

Why? The thing that defines the difference between platonic and romantic relationships is sex. The fact that an RPG PC can only be defined to a certain extent, and that dialogue in these "romances" is limited to a few short conversations due to the medium means that it must focus on what is ultimately central to the relationship rather than take up word budget with yet more exposition or buildup (which is what the non romance content is for). Why are people so squeamish about it?

Game should be entertaining to player. I doubt many people who romanced Jacob were happy with that end for their romance especially compared to content many other Shepard's had.

So? Jacob is Bioware's character. They've no obligation to fit him into what a nebulous majority of fans would have found entertaining. It's attitudes like that which keep the medium from being taken seriously as anything more than juvenile fantasies.

[Panda]

So? Jacob is Bioware's character. They've no obligation to fit him into what a nebulous majority of fans would have found entertaining. It's attitudes like that which keep the medium from being taken seriously as anything more than juvenile fantasies.

 

So romances should be minefield? Good luck on choosing right one? Getting more romances like Jacob would make lot of useless romance options that people don't want to play-through and it simply would be waste of resources, making content that people don't want to play since it sucks.

[9TailsFox]

I know it was a joke.  It wasn't a funny one, and actually pretty insulting.

 

"Hur hur, let the player have a party where a single FemShep that never did a romance  gets drunk and then wakes up next to Javik!  Oh and let's be really funny and give them dialogue that they implied that they slept together.   Nah, don't give them any choice over it, because it's funny!  I know that most women would love having their character wake up next to Javik without their consent!"

 

"What do you mean that the male Sheps that stayed single should have the same joke?  That they could be single throughout the series if they wanted to and then be forced to wake up next to a squadmate against their will? That would be just offensive."

You wrong it would be funny. I would like waking up next to Wrex.

Both stand up from bad.

Shepard: Wrex.

Wrex: Shepard.

And both just walk away.

 

Dose all women can't take joke and offended by everything. In Alpha protocol SIE rapes main protagonist tied to the table. If it was reversed everyone would go nuts.

[Sartoz]

the game doesn't force you into an encounter with Vega, FemShep practically date rapes him.

 

 Snip

 

                                                                            <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

I must have missed that.

 

After my 1st encounter with him in the shuttle bay, I won the fight but never spoke to him again. Found him to be rather low in the brains scale.... poor dresser too!

[MisterJB]

I am pretty sure Miranda doesn't actually break up with you in ME3, but I may be wrong;

She doesn't.

The last scene with her has her trying to say goodbye because she is sure everyone is going to die but Shepard convinces her otherwise and they end up committed.

[Quarian Master Race]

So romances should be minefield? Good luck on choosing right one? Getting more romances like Jacob would make lot of useless romance options that people don't want to play-through and it simply would be waste of resources, making content that people don't want to play since it sucks.

I'd be fine with that, because unless they are tied to the plot I expect the romances to tell a character story and not to fulfill my personal fantasies. If that character is an asshat (which Jacob totally was judging by his ME2 breakup dialouge), than I don't have a problem with their romance reflecting that. Similarly, if I choose to chase after a guy who is clearly dying, I'm not going to get upset when a deus ex machina doesn't show up and it ends predictably.

Then again, I don't self insert in these games and take personal offense when my decisions result in shitty outcomes, which is I think where the issue lies.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

If there are romances, I would like to see the characters exist outside the player's fantasies and fetishes. In fact, I would like to see the characters so fleshed out that they may decide that they don't want the PC for any number of reasons (and that the personal preferences randomize with different playthroughs). I'd rather see real characters than fantasy objects.

The "six conversations and bang before the grand finale" thing is a joke, and it always has been. It's been tolerated because Bioware has catered to the surface demands (race and gender) of this...fanbase.

[Grieving Natashina]

You wrong it would be funny. I would like waking up next to Wrex.

Both stand up from bad.

Shepard: Wrex.

Wrex: Shepard.

And both just walk away.

 

Dose all women can't take joke and offended by everything. In Alpha protocol SIE rapes main protagonist tied to the table. If it was reversed everyone would go nuts.

After seeing the way some guys reacted to getting hit by Kaidan, you'd probably be one of the few that would find it funny.  The way you set it up would be, but there is no hint that Shep and Wrex slept together, unlike FemShep/Javik.  Oh and having zero choice of the matter would not have gone over well at all.   

 

For that to be accurate, It would be like:

 

Wrexa: Shepard. I didn't know that humans were so good at these things without extra organs.

Sheploo: Not another word, Wrexa.

 

That would have gone over like a lead brick.  

 

Cue the loud angry self-affirmed straight guy on the forums: "If I wanted to sleep with Wrexa, I would have done so on my own!  It's bad enough that you kill one of the LIs, make the other cheat, have one only available if you recruited them in the previous game, and never warned me that I accidentally killed the other back in the first game!  Now I get to wake up next to the female Krogan with her implying I was sleeping with her.  All I wanted is a choice to say one way or the other."

 

Cue the rude women: "It was funny!  You really should get over it.  I mean, you got your options and you should have known better than to stay single.  A drunken one-night stand is funny, right?  Trollolol.  Ask BioWare for more romance options next time.  Just don't have more than us.  Everyone knows that guys don't enjoy the romances anyhow."

 

 I have a rather perverted and screwed up sense of humor (one that actually can make people quite upset with me,) so it's not the assumption that "women can't take a joke."  Oh and thanks for telling me that about Alpha Protocol, so I can avoid the game.  I don't care if it's male or female, rape is horrible and no one deserves it.   I sure as hell wouldn't have stayed quiet if I was playing AP and found that out.