149 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

Aside from the details that are put into the side quests, npc reactivity, city/settlement design, better facial animations and decent hairstyles, there's not much outside of those examples that are comparable between the franchises. 

[Hazegurl]

What the ME team should take away from TW3 is the background environments and NPC reactions. Have people respond to the destruction around them, if there is any. I think ME3 did an alright job of it on the Citadel with overhearing people's conversations about their displaced families and so on. 

 

If ME:A plans to have colonies, cities, and so on then they should take a cue from TW3. Large empty environments are boring.

 

Integrating side content with main content. TW3 did a good job of it and made me care just as much about the side characters as I did the main ones. Tell the story and cut the preaching and manipulating. Allow the player to decide what type of person they are.  i.e. Give us the Genophage arc without the heavy handed "You should totally cure the genophage because everything will be perfect with no problems!" garbage you get if you keep Wrex alive.

 

Romance, TW3 proves that sometimes less is more while DAI proves that more isn't always better.  Of course TW3 isn't perfect in the romance dept. A lot of Triss fans aren't happy but that has more to do with content rather than quantity of romances. I also like that in TW3 Geralt can sleep around if he chooses and even have a FWB thing with Keira. The game offers multiple relationship dynamics instead of "be alone and sexless, be in love, or cheat"

 

I like that NPCs don't just kiss Geralt's buttcheeks for showing up. It would be nice to be told that the help wasn't needed or actually made life worse on the person you're whiteknighting.

[Sanunes]

What the ME team should take away from TW3 is the background environments and NPC reactions. Have people respond to the destruction around them, if there is any. I think ME3 did an alright job of it on the Citadel with overhearing people's conversations about their displaced families and so on. 

 

If ME:A plans to have colonies, cities, and so on then they should take a cue from TW3. Large empty environments are boring.

 

Integrating side content with main content. TW3 did a good job of it and made me care just as much about the side characters as I did the main ones. Tell the story and cut the preaching and manipulating. Allow the player to decide what type of person they are.  i.e. Give us the Genophage arc without the heavy handed "You should totally cure the genophage because everything will be perfect with no problems!" garbage you get if you keep Wrex alive.

 

Romance, TW3 proves that sometimes less is more while DAI proves that more isn't always better.  Of course TW3 isn't perfect in the romance dept. A lot of Triss fans aren't happy but that has more to do with content rather than quantity of romances. I also like that in TW3 Geralt can sleep around if he chooses and even have a FWB thing with Keira. The game offers multiple relationship dynamics instead of "be alone and sexless, be in love, or cheat"

 

I like that NPCs don't just kiss Geralt's buttcheeks for showing up. It would be nice to be told that the help wasn't needed or actually made life worse on the person you're whiteknighting.

 

The thing is there could be repercussions for even something that seems simple to us such as NPC reactions to the environment or what we have done.  What if BioWare had to choose between party banter and NPC reactions what do you think the community would want? I know it might seem simple to us to add an element like that to the game, but it could be quite different.  In the "Open Letter to BioWare" thread it was stated that 13% of disk space goes to voice acting, what if the limitation is they would have to cut back dialogue elsewhere in the game just so it fits on the disk?

[LinksOcarina]

Probably, but even so, it would probably be more appropriate over at the Witcher forums. Based on what I've seen here, I can only imagine how well that would go over.

The Bioware/Witcher fan fights remain possibly the most obnoxious goddamn thing in the forums.

 

Amen to that. Role-playing fans are very fickle sometimes. 

[Feybrad]

(Background/NPC Reactions. No Objections.)

 

(No empty Environments. No Objections).

 

(Integrated Side Content. No Objections).

 

Romance, TW3 proves that sometimes less is more while DAI proves that more isn't always better.  Of course TW3 isn't perfect in the romance dept. A lot of Triss fans aren't happy but that has more to do with content rather than quantity of romances. I also like that in TW3 Geralt can sleep around if he chooses and even have a FWB thing with Keira. The game offers multiple relationship dynamics instead of "be alone and sexless, be in love, or cheat"

 

(NPCs not kissing Butt. No Objections).

 

So, that Part about Romance... in Principle, yes, sure less Romances mean that each one can be fleshed out more. However, they also offer less Choice (since there are less Romances) and leave various Parts of the Player Base completely behind (namely, everyone who isn't a straight Guy. This comes with the inherent Problem of always having to play as Geralt). I thought DA:I handled Romances pretty well and while they were not really connected to the main Plot (thinking back - what was, really? ... but that's another Issue), they had quite a bit of Content behind them, enough, to keep me satisfied throughout most of the Game. It also had various different Relationship Dynamics - compare Iron Bull and Josephine, for a more extreme Example. Sure, you couldn't go about and sleep around all the Time, but that's not something I miss. I don't play a Game for Titillation, which is what this sleeping around basically boils down to.

 

I've got no Objections to integrating Romances more with the main Plot, though.

[Gago]

Gwent? Hell no, I hate card games!

[Mcfly616]

I wouldn't say "be more like...." anything. But they can absolutely learn alot things from playing the Witcher. Especially, dialogue and choices. They're just done better by CDPR. 

[Feybrad]

I wouldn't say "be more like...." anything. But they can absolutely learn alot things from playing the Witcher. Especially, dialogue and choices. They're just done better by CDPR. 

 

Dialogue is another Thing that is inherently heavier influenced by the Fact that Geralt is a predefined Protagonist. If BioWare were to take Pages from their Book in Terms of writing Dialogue, we would only end up with a disgusting Hybrid between our own Protagonist, created by ourselves (YAY!) and a predefined Protagonist like Geralt (BOO!). They should try to find their own Way that allows for us Players to have as much Influence over our Character as possible.

 

Can't talk about Choices though, not having played the later Witcher games. There is another Thread, though, talking about Choices and Consequence, serving up Life is Strange as an Example and although the Sturctures of Story and Game can't really be compared to Mass Effect, the general Consensus seems to be to move away from various Galaxy-altering Choices per Game to having most Choices be on a more personal Level mostly influencing Character Interactions.

[MrFob]

I haven't played through the Witcher 3 yet but I am about 50 hours into the game (going slowly), so I think by now I have a good idea of the general concepts in the game.

 

I would agree on the most obvious points that have been mentioned again and again in this and other threads, such as well done and integrated side contents, pacing, etc.

I think the most important advantage that TW3 achieved when compared to BW games is that they use the same quality standards for side content as they do for main quest content. In BW, you can tell whether a quest is side content or not, simply by looking at it's presentation, in TW3, they are all handled in the same manner, which gives the world a more coherent and less itterative feel to it.

 

However, I wouldn't want Witcher style dialogues in an ME game. It's not that Witcher 3 does dialogues badly, not at all but it's not a writing style that I would transfer to other games. The fact that really every character needs to be a mix of coolness, badass and rough tongue may be ok for The Witcher but IMO, it wouldn't fit for ME and (even within the Witcher games) it constrains the variety you can achieve with different characters.

The world of ME is not a rosy paradise, nor should it be but it is definitely not as rough and dark as the Witcher (which for me borders on the unbelievable).

So I'd say, yes in terms of pacing, level design and content quality, feel free to look carefully at TW3 but in terms of writing and tone, keep Mass Effect Mass Effect.

[Mcfly616]

Dialogue is another Thing that is inherently heavier influenced by the Fact that Geralt is a predefined Protagonist. If BioWare were to take Pages from their Book in Terms of writing Dialogue, we would only end up with a disgusting Hybrid between our own Protagonist, created by ourselves (YAY!) and a predefined Protagonist like Geralt (BOO!). They should try to find their own Way that allows for us Players to have as much Influence over our Character as possible.

 

Can't talk about Choices though, not having played the later Witcher games. There is another Thread, though, talking about Choices and Consequence, serving up Life is Strange as an Example and although the Sturctures of Story and Game can't really be compared to Mass Effect, the general Consensus seems to be to move away from various Galaxy-altering Choices per Game to having most Choices be on a more personal Level mostly influencing Character Interactions.

 I can't agree with that. The dialogue "wheel" (for lack of a better term, because there's not a wheel in TW3) is better than anything Bioware has done in that regard and it has nothing to do with Geralt being predefined. Since you haven't played it, you wouldn't know. What I'm getting at is the ambiguity of many of the choices you have to make via the dialogue options. And half the time they only give you two options, and it's still more of a dilemma than I've ever had throughout the Mass Effect trilogy. When the dialogue wheel comes up in Mass Effect, you pretty much know "this is the good choice and this is the bad one". 

 

And the choices and consequences aren't better because they're more personal and less earth-shattering in TW3. Though I'd prefer if Bioware got more personal and less galaxy altering with theirs. The Witcher 3's choices and consequences are that much better due to how they're implemented.

[agonis]

Err... I´m almost afraid to ask at this point but wasn´t the OP asking for avoidable minigames?

 

And not for another Bioware/Witcher 3 discussion?

[Mcfly616]

Err... I´m almost afraid to ask at this point but wasn´t the OP asking for avoidable minigames?

 

And not for another Bioware/Witcher 3 discussion?

 hmm maybe they should rename the thread something more indicative of that.

 

 

 

 

But, sure. Hopefully, the next Mass Effect has a fun and addictive space themed card game we can play with our crew and squadmates. Gwent is addicting as all hell in TW3.

[Feybrad]

 I can't agree with that. The dialogue "wheel" (for lack of a better term, because there's not a wheel in TW3) is better than anything Bioware has done in that regard and it has nothing to do with Geralt being predefined. Since you haven't played it, you wouldn't know. What I'm getting at is the ambiguity of many of the choices you have to make via the dialogue options. And half the time they only give you two options, and it's still more of a dilemma than I've ever had throughout the Mass Effect trilogy. When the dialogue wheel comes up in Mass Effect, you pretty much know "this is the good choice and this is the bad one". 

 

And the choices and consequences aren't better because they're more personal and less earth-shattering in TW3. Though I'd prefer if Bioware got more personal and less galaxy altering with theirs. The Witcher 3's choices and consequences are that much better due to how they're implemented.

 

Regarding the Dialogue Wheel - I thought DA:I's Dialogue Wheel was actually pretty great, if underused. But that's not what I'm arguing.

 

What I was saying is, that the Way Dialogue is written changes immensely if you have to account for different Levels of Player Influence over a Characters Personality. Geralt is a predefined Character, he has a predefined Personality and can thus be written with other Things in Mind than a Character like the Warden or the Inquisitor or even Shepard, whose Character we have varyingDegrees of Influence over. Shepard is at the Bottom of the List for a Reason, as I agree with you, that the Dialogue Wheel in Mass Effect was thus far very unsubtle and could definitely be imporved. I would look to DA:I for that, as I thought they nailed their Dialogue Wheel there - it was only used so rarely, that it seldom made any Impact.

 

In Regards to personal Choices vs. world-altering Ones, I'd like to redirect you towards this Thread, where it was discussed. The main Advantage of more personal Choices was actually one, that has not so much to do with the Dialogue, but the piling-up of Consequences that ultimately led to many of them being trivialized in ME3. This another Thing that would not happen in the Witcher Series, as their Developer did not always make a Point of respecting the Choices the Player made in previous Games (though I've only read about that in Regards to Witcher 3, as it was already established, I didn't play that Game and didn't finish Witcher 2). I like the BioWare Model of actually respecting Player Choice in all their Capacities (however they handled them) far better.

[Mcfly616]

Snip

 CDPR certainly respected past choices in TW3. Problem is, most people expected said choices to determine the narrative flow of the third installment. In which case they'd be wrong for expecting such a thing. The Witcher series may be a trilogy, but it's only interconnected by the characters and their personal relationships. Other than that, each installment tells its own standalone story. This is different than Bioware's approach to Mass Effect where each installment bleeds into the next as a continuation of the last. (well, except for that glorified side-story "ME2")

 

And as far as Geralts personality being predefined, I will again beg to differ. You can make him a charmer, a stoic bystander, an indifferent ***hole or simply a brutal killer. If that's predefined then Bioware should feel bad that a predefined character has more personality range than the completely blank slate that they give us. But then again, Geralt's personality isn't predefined (except for the books). You define it over the course of each game.

 

 

No need to link me to today's new "choice and consequence" thread. Every one that pops up I've commented on it. I've been the strongest proponent of a smaller-scale self-contained narrative with a much more personal standalone story and effects, ever since the trilogy concluded in 2012. It allows for a drastically varied and wider branching narrative. 

[wright1978]

Proper side missions with choices like in TW3 please.

[RUDAL]

@OP

 

As much as I love Witcher games I have to say no.

 

I wouldn't mind a skill upgrade in a form of omni tool "plug-ins" like the Witcher 3 mutagens where you can swap them around and plug them in and out depending on the situation but games within the games within the games... NO.

[The Antagonist]

DAI and TW3 are both boring so the less similar ME4 is to these two the better.

[Torgette]

The 300+ page TW3 thread isn't just in relation to DA at this point, but about BioWare as a whole.  Most of the points discussed have been connected to where it could help other BioWare games.  In fact, it branched past just DA about a hundred pages ago and they've long since been discussing where CDPR could help ME as well as DA.  It's also been talking just a lot about TW3 in general.  

 

Also, the devs know that many of the fans posting in there are also ME fans.  It's pretty easy to tell with most posters as a glance.  I'm also 99% certain that the devs have read that thread, and I know (going by Twitter feeds) that some of them are playing TW3 as well.  

 

I think this conversation would be better served in the mega TW3 thread.  At this point, this tiny subforum might not be the best place for it.  Due to the branching nature of the TW3 thread in the DA Feedback section, it would not be considered off-topic to talk about ME.  

 

I still haven't finished compiling that thread, but the majority of thought-out posts and/or discussions through the first 150 pages were either 1) about political correctness and/or grittiness, 2) that there needed to be more cutscenes and 3) that the open world/environment needed to be more interesting/animated.

 

Honestly i'm not as concerned about ME in those regards, only big question mark is how the open world will play.

[N7Jamaican]

I think Mass Effect should be more like Mass Effect.

[BabyPuncher]

From what I've been hearing about the Witcher, there's been a lot of praise heaped on the side missions, but I'm not hearing a whole lot on much else.

[Darth_Atreyu]

I think Mass Effect should be more like Mass Effect.

Agree.

[Hazegurl]

The thing is there could be repercussions for even something that seems simple to us such as NPC reactions to the environment or what we have done.  What if BioWare had to choose between party banter and NPC reactions what do you think the community would want? I know it might seem simple to us to add an element like that to the game, but it could be quite different.  In the "Open Letter to BioWare" thread it was stated that 13% of disk space goes to voice acting, what if the limitation is they would have to cut back dialogue elsewhere in the game just so it fits on the disk?

Naturally I would want resources placed on party banter. However, ME never had much party banter anyway. Some dialogue spoken during the mission but not long stretches of conversation DA is known for.

[BabyPuncher]

However, ME never had much party banter anyway. Some dialogue spoken during the mission but not long stretches of conversation DA is known for.

 

And a good thing too, since I suspect that is a significant contribution to my general disappointment with DA companions.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The thing is that with a computer role playing game you have a pre-defined character anyway. The only thing you have is an illusion that it is your character. The character creation screen to make a face and selection of sex is about it. The rest is pre-defined. They can do whatever they want with the dialogue and you will think it's your character.

 

So in that manner they could learn a lot from TW3 regarding dialogue, just with better voice acting from the protagonist. I'm tired of the "again but with less emotion crap."

[The Heretic of Time]

P.S.: My apologies to BioWare. I love your games. I'm hoping for a constructive and civil discussion of fan feedback. It worked for Dragon Age. 

 

The Dragon Age fanbase on average is more mature and less insane than the Mass Effect fanbase.