34 réponses à ce sujet

[BloodBeforeTears]

Hate to start another thread on this topic, but need to solicit the verdict from managers of competition/speedrun/solo/HoF threads regarding the use of this hack.

 

Motivation: Was scoping some potential strategies for solos, and came across a vid in the Gold Solo Speedrun HoF (1st place entry) that stated the hack was used in the comments.

 

So to you competitive thread managers out there, is this hack (modification of coalesced to remove the firing delay from the crusader shotgun) allowed in your thread?

 

IMO, it should not be allowed, because 1.) there is an indisputable benefit to using it (i.e. it's not just a personal preference thing, like FOV), and 2.) there is no formal statement from BioWare stating that the weapon should be free of the firing delay.  In fact, I found evidence to the contrary - that all shotguns were intended to have a delay - in this thread (see Chris Schanche's post):  http://forum.bioware...ader/?bioware=1

 

So what is the verdict, BSN?

[7twozero]

You browse reddit too huh? Saw the crusader post at the top of the mecoop subreddit a few minutes ago. Well I have a quote too, from like a year before your quote, where they say it wasn't supposed to work like that. I patched mine and never looked back. Also it's not a coalesced patch, it's a pcc file.

 

http://forum.bioware...9#entry14046998

 

Edit - wish there were patches for other stuff they left as is, like blade armor and shockwave radius.

[ClydeInTheShell]

I love the Crusader how it is. If you like it to perform like another shotgun....use a different shotgun. 

 

If the long shaft doesn't deliver the shots fast enough for you, maybe something smaller is suitable for you.....

 

...like a Phalanx.

[7twozero]

Well it's bugged worse on PC than console, if you just play on console you're not gonna feel it nearly as bad as on PC. Plus in my eyes it's bsn fixing something they said they screwed up but then couldn't be arsed to fix.

[BloodBeforeTears]

Thanks for posting TZ.  I am clearly ignorant of the litany of bugs that Bioware didn't patch.

 

So... although I would still like a clear answer from the managers of competitive threads specifically regarding the Crusader firing delay hack/patch, I also would like to extend this question to a more general context: "If there exists evidence for a bug that Bioware did not patch, can I patch it myself and submit competitive gameplay videos with the hacks/patches installed?"

[Heldarion]

I love the Crusader how it is. If you like it to perform like another shotgun....use a different shotgun. 

 

If the long shaft doesn't deliver the shots fast enough for you, maybe something smaller is suitable for you.....

 

...like a Phalanx.

 

It already performs like a shotgun.

 

That's why it's so wonky.

[7twozero]

Sure sorry if I came off extra hot. It just bugs me how much stuff is bugged in this game. As to whether it's acceptable in the challenge threads, I'm not really qualified to say, but just for my opinion, I'd have to grudgingly say that it's probably preferable to have everybody using the same vanilla game setup out of fairness. I don't have any guilt personally using a patched crusader in pug games though.

[TheTechnoTurian]

Thanks for posting TZ.  I am clearly ignorant of the litany of bugs that Bioware didn't patch.

 

So... although I would still like a clear answer from the managers of competitive threads specifically regarding the Crusader firing delay hack/patch, I also would like to extend this question to a more general context: "If there exists evidence for a bug that Bioware did not patch, can I patch it myself and submit competitive gameplay videos with the hacks/patches installed?"

 

The Crusader fix is allowed in the Gold Solo Speedruns Hall of Fame. 

 

I allow these modifications to the game files:

 

- Eliminating undesired objectives from the game. 

- Crusader Fix. 

- FOV adjustments done via coalesced editing or third party programs (or whatever) 

- Talon Keybinding Fix.  

 

Everything else, no, regardless of Bioware's stance on it. I'm not opening that can of worms, and the rules for what is currently allowed are based on what Hendrix137 allowed in the previous incarnation of the archive before I took over for him. 

[BloodBeforeTears]

The Crusader fix is allowed in the Gold Solo Speedruns Hall of Fame. 

 

I allow these modifications to the game files:

 

- Eliminating undesired objectives from the game. 

- Crusader Fix. 

- FOV adjustments done via coalesced editing. 

- Talon Keybinding Fix.  

 

Everything else, no, regardless of Bioware's stance on it. I'm not opening that can of worms, and the rules for what is currently allowed are based on what Hendrix137 allowed in the previous incarnation of the archive before I took over for him. 

 

Thanks for the clarification Techno.

[Deerber]

Look, OP, no offense, but since you're a bit new to this community, let me tell you a little bit more about how things are around here at the moment.

 

Noone's really competitive anymore. I mean yeah, some people like to solo, they like to do it fast, they like to challenge themselves and try to improve as much as possible... But they are only being competitive with themselves. If the various Techno, Slasher, Alquinn et al feel differently, they should feel free to correct me, but I think the competitive spirit, meant as a competition between players, in this game, died a loooong time ago.

 

There was a time when people would compete over who soloed the fastest, who soloed the fastest with a certain kit, who soloed fastest without rockets, who duo'd faster... You get the idea. I think the biggest competition of all these, community-wise, was the full team speedrun one, which pretty much ended up being broken to pieces once the #YoloSwag team broke sub 7. But the key point is: all this was at least a couple years ago.

 

I mean, I don't think anyone even tried to break Alquinn's gold record in like... 2 Years? He's the only one still trying to improve it

 

Bottom line: everyone traces his own line, here. Threads like the Gold Speedrun HoF have to draw their own line, sure, as Techno said up here, but it's mostly to avoid chaos. If you wanna try to improve your times with your own rules and traces, I think you should do so.

 

In the end, if you want my personal opinion, Crusader aim delay is a cancer and the fix is a wonderful cure for it. In light of what I already said, I see no reason whatsoever why one wouldn't want to use it.

 

 

In fact, I found evidence to the contrary - that all shotguns were intended to have a delay - in this thread (see Chris Schanche's post):  http://forum.bioware...ader/?bioware=1

 

Besides, I'm pretty sure we've had dev clarifications on the matter saying that Crusader's delay wasn't intended. Basically, every shotgun has a delay proportional to 1/# of pellets. When they introduced the Crusader, they didn't think that the delay would have been much more substantial than the others.

 

 

Edit - wish there were patches for other stuff they left as is, like blade armor and shockwave radius.

 

What if I told you... That there is/was a shockwave radius fix? Dunvi made it... And before you ask no, sadly I don't have it, nor do I want to bother her with asking if she still has it, honestly. Should the topic ever come up, I'd keep you all informed, anyway. I think Caratinoid was working on the blade armor fix too in the old bug fixing group, but I don't know if it was finished. I know he fixed incendiary ammo, though... Which is pretty damn awesome if you ask me. Sadly, I don't think any of those fixes survived in the HD of any reachable person here...

[Mgamerz]

Back when they had that "community patch" thing going on (with Cyonan) they had fixes for this. They disappeared though. They seemed really shady, they never once seemed to explain "how" they were recompiling pcc files - ME3Explorer can't, and it's a huge toolset. I have a feeling it's gone because they had an illegal compiler. When I asked about it I never got a straight answer.

[Deerber]

Back when they had that "community patch" thing going on (with Cyonan) they had fixes for this. They disappeared though. They seemed really shady, they never once seemed to explain "how" they were recompiling pcc files - ME3Explorer can't, and it's a huge toolset. I have a feeling it's gone because they had an illegal compiler. When I asked about it I never got a straight answer.

Caratinoid was running the show, not Cyonan. Can't tell you how though, I'm not an expert. Personally, I didn't care how they did it, I'd have grabbed what I could if I noticed before they stopped. Honestly, I don't think Caratinoid stopped because he was using an illegal compiler, more like he just drifted away from this game. What's even the difference between a legal compiler and an illegal one?

[Mgamerz]

Caratinoid was running the show, not Cyonan. Can't tell you how though, I'm not an expert. Personally, I didn't care how they did it, I'd have grabbed what I could if I noticed before they stopped. Honestly, I don't think Caratinoid stopped because he was using an illegal compiler, more like he just drifted away from this game. What's even the difference between a legal compiler and an illegal one?

I know Cyonan was in it, I talked to them about it since Cartinoid was already gone. A legal compiler is a reverse engineered one, like ME3Explroer (it's only a decompiler at this stage. we may never get a compiler working). An illegal one is the UE3 one (pirated or not), which is likely hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's the same thing BioWare used to make the game, except it was customized. That one would be able to likely decompile/recompile pcc files pretty easily, though I expect it'd stil require some work. I would assume this is the one they had, but they weren't licensed to use it - you get sued into the nether pretty easily with big software like that.

 

Those pcc files were being modified before we even had a decompiler. So it's reaaaal suspicious. You'd expect they'd share that information on how to do it so other could help, no?

[BloodBeforeTears]

 

Look, OP, no offense, but since you're a bit new to this community, let me tell you a little bit more about how things are around here at the moment.

 

Noone's really competitive anymore. I mean yeah, some people like to solo, they like to do it fast, they like to challenge themselves and try to improve as much as possible... But they are only being competitive with themselves. If the various Techno, Slasher, Alquinn et al feel differently, they should feel free to correct me, but I think the competitive spirit, meant as a competition between players, in this game, died a loooong time ago.

 

There was a time when people would compete over who soloed the fastest, who soloed the fastest with a certain kit, who soloed fastest without rockets, who duo'd faster... You get the idea. I think the biggest competition of all these, community-wise, was the full team speedrun one, which pretty much ended up being broken to pieces once the #YoloSwag team broke sub 7. But the key point is: all this was at least a couple years ago.

 

I mean, I don't think anyone even tried to break Alquinn's gold record in like... 2 Years? He's the only one still trying to improve it

 

Bottom line: everyone traces his own line, here. Threads like the Gold Speedrun HoF have to draw their own line, sure, as Techno said up here, but it's mostly to avoid chaos. If you wanna try to improve your times with your own rules and traces, I think you should do so.

 

In the end, if you want my personal opinion, Crusader aim delay is a cancer and the fix is a wonderful cure for it. In light of what I already said, I see no reason whatsoever why one wouldn't want to use it.

 

 

Besides, I'm pretty sure we've had dev clarifications on the matter saying that Crusader's delay wasn't intended. Basically, every shotgun has a delay proportional to 1/# of pellets. When they introduced the Crusader, they didn't think that the delay would have been much more substantial than the others.

 

 

What if I told you... That there is/was a shockwave radius fix? Dunvi made it... And before you ask no, sadly I don't have it, nor do I want to bother her with asking if she still has it, honestly. Should the topic ever come up, I'd keep you all informed, anyway. I think Caratinoid was working on the blade armor fix too in the old bug fixing group, but I don't know if it was finished. I know he fixed incendiary ammo, though... Which is pretty damn awesome if you ask me. Sadly, I don't think any of those fixes survived in the HD of any reachable person here...

 

 

LOL.  The way I'm interpreting your response is like this: "The game is old and people have moved on, so why do you care about whether or not certain challenge threads have rules regarding certain types of mods?  No one else here cares, people just do whatever they want, so you also should just do whatever you want!"

 

I understand your sentiment, but if I felt the same way then I wouldn't have created this thread to begin with!  For me, the Gold Speedrun HoF thread is absolutely amazing - an opportunity for anyone to test their mettle against the ten fastest times for each character.  Moreover, since the majority of the entries there link to gameplay videos, prospective competitors are free to dissect and analyze the gameplay at their discretion.  That thread is absolutely badass, and will probably keep me entertained for months (or even years) to come.

 

And chances are, there are probably others out there that feel the same way about that thread or other challenge threads on this forum.  So hopefully you can understand some of my dismay when I came to learn that certain top times in the HoF were completed using various mods.  But I'm over that.  And that's why I asked for clarification.  Techno stated that the Crusader fix is allowed for submissions in her thread, which is exactly what I wanted to know.

[Mgamerz]

I'm surprised any mods at all are allowed on the speedrun threads. Then again I'm surprised they allow cross-platform since the gameplay is different across platforms. I'm a big modder but I mean come on, the accuracy thing is practically a cheat in terms of speedrunning. In normal gameplay it's barely anything but this is "MLG".

[TheTechnoTurian]

I'm surprised any mods at all are allowed on the speedrun threads. Then again I'm surprised they allow cross-platform since the gameplay is different across platforms. I'm a big modder but I mean come on, the accuracy thing is practically a cheat in terms of speedrunning. In normal gameplay it's barely anything but this is "MLG".

 

Not really. Even with the aiming delay fix, it's still the Crusader -- i.e. not the Wraith, Black Widow, Talon, Arc Pistol, Reegar, Acolyte & Hurricane, Harrier or Venom. While the Crusader is a great gun, it's not going to be and never will be the most popular or powerful speed-running weapon by a long shot. Even a fixed Crusader is still going to be at a heavy disadvantage compared to those weapons on the vast majority of kits (or probably all of them) in terms of actual speedrunning.  Keep in mind only 20 of the 600+ entries in the speedrunning HoF are Crusader solos anyway (some with the fix, some appear to be without). It is very much a niche weapon, only favored by a small handful of people who post to the speedrunner thread, and even after the fix became more widespread on PC there wasn't a sudden influx of Crusader solos. 

 

...And I don't think the gold solo speedrun thread is some kind of MLG e-sports tournament/competition by any stretch of the imagination. In fact for a long time it hung out on page 8 or 9 of the forums, virtually forgotten by most everyone. 

[TheTechnoTurian]

 

Look, OP, no offense, but since you're a bit new to this community, let me tell you a little bit more about how things are around here at the moment.

 

Noone's really competitive anymore. I mean yeah, some people like to solo, they like to do it fast, they like to challenge themselves and try to improve as much as possible... But they are only being competitive with themselves. If the various Techno, Slasher, Alquinn et al feel differently, they should feel free to correct me, but I think the competitive spirit, meant as a competition between players, in this game, died a loooong time ago.

 

Yep, this is pretty much true for me. I can't say I don't enjoy seeing my name in lists or even at the top of lists sometimes, but to be honest, I like playing with myself soloing and would do it even if there was no thread for it. 

[Catastrophy]

I didn't really notice a difference when I used the fixed one. I might have used the fix wrong, though.

[J. Peterman]

It's cheating.

[frank_is_crank]

I mean, I don't think anyone even tried to break Alquinn's gold record in like... 2 Years? He's the only one still trying to improve it

 

I'm trying every day. And some day... some very distant day...

 

On a more serious note I agree with what Deerber said.

 

For the Gold Solo HOF I submitted some runs with laughable times (for a speedrun at least) but got a place in the list because there where (and still are?) free slots.

 

I didn't really notice a difference when I used the fixed one. I might have used the fix wrong, though.

 

^^ Also this. lol

[Loufi]

The Crusader fix is authorized in the platinum solos hall of fame, in the sense that using it will not put your solo into the modded section. This is also true for FoV adjustments and the Talon keybinding fix.

 

Modding the objectives will however put your solo into the modded section, as well as removing the on-host Phantoms' DR or other forms of modding. 

[LemurFromTheId]

It couldn't be more obvious that the Crusader delay was a bug, and I don't see why we shouldn't be allowed to use a community-based bugfix. It's just a frustrating weapon to use without it.

[Salarian Jesus]

HAX!!!

 

It's cheating.

+1

[DaemionMoadrin]

It couldn't be more obvious that the Crusader delay was a bug, and I don't see why we shouldn't be allowed to use a community-based bugfix. It's just a frustrating weapon to use without it.

 

I'm fine without a fix... I used the fix for a while but couldn't notice any difference.

[ALTBOULI]

It's cheating.

I just hope they dont include the Crusader for ME:A