225 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

You're not thinking hard enough.

Shepard doesn't destroy the Reapers. The Starbrat only ALLOWS Shepard to destroy the Reapers and/or take its place. That's the inherent problem with the endings. Starbrat basically replaces both the antagonists and the protagonist of the game in the last 10 minutes of the entire trilogy.

Don't be silly. The Catalyst isn't in control of anything in the last minutes. Unless you're arguing that he has no preference among Refuse, Destroy, Control, and Synthesis? That'd be hard to reconcile with his dialogue, and in any event a being with no preferences concerning the outcome of his fundamental purpose can hardly be said to be allowing anything.

[AlanC9]

The most accurate answer will be - that's how it feels ,to me.

Now, this sort of argument can work. But then the question becomes what causes those feelings? Even if they're not subject to rational analysis, that doesn't make them random.

but all the times i had to accept the glowing crap, all i really wanted to do is to kick it where it hurts the most.

So subjective was in my post for a reason.

Accept that the Catalyst did what it did for these reasons? That the Crucible could perform these particular functions? What was it that you didn't want to accept?

[wright1978]

Shepard hadn't died at the end?

 

Lets face it, we can all go on about how the ending didn't make sense and was a lazy rip off of Deus Ex and yadda yadda yadda, but in the end the real problem with the ending was that Shepard died and you did not get the happy ending you wanted.

 

Of course I am not saying the ending wasn't **** for legitimate reasons (though I really don't think it deserved quite the backlash it got) but if you look at the ending to Inquisition you will notice that despite being far shittier than the ending to Mass Effect 3 there are nowhere near as many people complaining about it, in fact you even got more than a few people willing to praise it despite not delivering on the whole "40 endings" thing that was claimed before release, and it is all because the fans got their happy ending.

 

 

 

So I guess the moral of the story is give the fans a happy ending or they will burn down your house.

 

Allowing real choice regarding fate of Shep might have taken a little bit of steam from the response. It still wouldn't have changed the fact that ME3's ending was an utter trainwreck featuring a laughable last minute DEM character.

 

Don't agree at all that Inquisition's ending was worse than ME3. Inquisition's ending was rather average but still miles better than ME3's, post pre and post extended cut.

[jstme]

Now, this sort of argument can work. But then the question becomes what causes those feelings? Even if they're not subject to rational analysis, that doesn't make them random.
.......

Accept that the Catalyst did what it did for these reasons? That the Crucible could perform these particular functions? What was it that you didn't want to accept?

Dark side,this path will lead to. Lots of silly details,argue about ,we will.

but SO BE IT

TL:DR

I do not find main antagonist acceptable and trusted exposition device. Its reasoning is beyond stupid. Its solutions and suggestions ,both old and new ones,are beyond stupid. Unquestionably accepting its will (or points,if you will) and acting accordingly,crucible influence or not, brakes my role-playing and makes Shepard not only bad dancer,but beyond stupid too. 

Shooting exploding tubes while walking toward those does not make it any better,mind you.

 

Lots of silly details:

Catalyst needing sleep..... Catalyst not being able to control reapers... Catalyst heard something about crucible long ago but went lol whatever about it ...really? 

 

Previous catalyst solutions reasoning: Advanced AI will not have any need to destroy/compete with all organic civilizations because those stop being a threat in a very short run due to technological gap,same for habitat/resources needed. Even if this AI will suffer from Catalyst Idiocy syndrome,universe is almost infinite and destroying all organic civilizations without new ones popping over like mushrooms in the meanwhile will be  possible only if all universe is destroyed at once. 

 

Postwhatevercrucibledoessolutions: Synthesis involves changing/creating matter in intelligent way that does harm but influences multitude of vastly different organic life forms with completely different biochemistry almost simultaneously all over galaxy - this is God power.  It makes reapers ships and entire  reaping solution .... stupid. What is even dumber is that Catalyst prefers synthesis,apparently. 

Destroy involves physically destroying different types  of hardware,that happen to carry same software code,all around galaxy almost simultaneously. This is less silly then synthesis but still.... silly.

Control is the only one making sense however why Shepard commander can control reapers after grabbing 2 sticks while Catalyst can't is weird.

 

And Shepard has to accept this all and just nod and go commit suicide? While this incredibly dangerous powerful murderous but apparently totally insane and stupid AI still stands there looking smug? Well,not exactly stands and not exactly smug, but ,you know.

[prosthetic soul]

Don't be silly. The Catalyst isn't in control of anything in the last minutes. Unless you're arguing that he has no preference among Refuse, Destroy, Control, and Synthesis? That'd be hard to reconcile with his dialogue, and in any event a being with no preferences concerning the outcome of his fundamental purpose can hardly be said to be allowing anything.

Yes, I'll take the magical platform that lifts Shepard up to the final room for 500 Alex. 

 

Face it, without Starbrat, Shepard wouldn't have gotten to where he needed to be to "solve" the Reaper threat.  Starbrat swooped in to give Shepard the A, B, or C choice.

[KaiserShep]

Yes, I'll take the magical platform that lifts Shepard up to the final room for 500 Alex. 

 

Face it, without Starbrat, Shepard wouldn't have gotten to where he needed to be to "solve" the Reaper threat.  Starbrat swooped in to give Shepard the A, B, or C choice.

 

While it doesn't give one the warm fuzziness of something remotely climactic, it's not a huge stretch that the Crucible overrode the idiot software the giant squids left behind. 

[Sion1138]

Like you don't know.

[JohnAlekseyev]

I finished ME3 for the first time recently and while I had heard about the bad ending, I avoided all spoilers on the whole series. Knowing of the negative reception, I expected my Shepard to die or the whole undertaking to be in vain and the Reapers winning. I certainly didn't expect that blatant cop out on the writer's side with that horrible deus ex machina at the end. I had already been unhappy with how they had nerfed and demystified the Reapers from the menacing conversation with Sovereign (one of the best moments in my video gaming career so far, sharing it's top place with the KotOR revealation scene) over the comical Harbinger to the mindless Reaper spam in ME3. But that AI-god-thing just took the cake.

I never witnessed the pre-extended-cut ending, but it can't be that much worse due to said star child screwup still existing.
I guess the writers wrote themselves into a corner (Drew Karpshyn no longer involved?) and didn't know a way out, so they went for that disappointing solution.

[DFMelancholine]

There would still be negativity.I mean there always is.There is no creation in the world that doesn't yield at least some criticism.

But maybe there is a chance that the backlash would have been slightly smaller.

 

What I personally would have wanted ( I repeat this is my opinion and no one needs to like it.)

I would have wanted TWO different endings both and each reflecting to Shep' Paragon or Renegade side and both would have two versions ,one good and one bad.So 4 endings basically.Paragon (Good ending/Bad Ending), Renegade (Good ending/Bad ending) which totally ties to the theme of the trilogy.

They could have kept everything there unchanged including the stupid StarBrat and his ludicrous reasoning but add more dialog options to make the conversation make more sense and help the player participate more and depending on what we did throughout the whole game, the war assets we gathered and how we handled Synthetic VS. Organic conflicts in the whole trilogy we could basically prove its logic is flawed and in a way "glitch" it into reprogramming the collective consiousness of the Reapers thus making them realize that Synthetics and Organics can perfectly coexist after all.

 

Paragon Choice :

-Good Ending :You convince the StarBrat, it tells you the Reapers will cease the Harvest,then retreat to Dark Space and self destruct because their programming is now wrong and they have no reason to exist.Minimal if no casualties at all as far as other characters go.

-Bad Ending: Same as above BUT the casualties are very high,some of Shepard's friends die.Higher overall death toll due to low War Assets.Victory but still bittersweet.

 

The Paragon choice was to "allow" the Reapers to go by not firing the Crucible. (In this version the Crucible has only one function, it destroys the Reapers and damages the Relays -not beyond repair-)

 

Renegade Choice : 

-Good Ending : Reapers as stated above, will retreat and self-destruct but renegade Shep  wants to be a badass and decides to fire the Crucible because he doesn't trust that they won't come back so he wipes them out pre-emptively.Again Lower overall death toll because of high War Asset gathering.Perfect happy ending.(OK, the relays are a bit screwed but they slowly rebuild them.)

-Bad Ending : Just like above.Crucible is fired.Reapers wiped out BUT all the rest is similar to the Paragon Good ending but due to low war assets and lack of preparation there are higher death tolls and are closest companions die.Still positive however, because Reapers are wiped out.

 

If we had a similar ending to this, I believe there would be no major outcry and today we would be having the announcement of Mass Effect 4 rather than Mass Effect Andromeda

 

 

Anyway, why the hell am I even bothering.

 

But a girl can daydream  

[prosthetic soul]

There would still be negativity.I mean there always is.There is no creation in the world that doesn't yield at least some criticism.

But maybe there is a chance that the backlash would have been slightly smaller.

 

What I personally would have wanted ( I repeat this is my opinion and no one needs to like it.)

I would have wanted TWO different endings both and each reflecting to Shep' Paragon or Renegade side and both would have two versions ,one good and one bad.So 4 endings basically.Paragon (Good ending/Bad Ending), Renegade (Good ending/Bad ending) which totally ties to the theme of the trilogy.

They could have kept everything there unchanged including the stupid StarBrat and his ludicrous reasoning but add more dialog options to make the conversation make more sense and help the player participate more and depending on what we did throughout the whole game, the war assets we gathered and how we handled Synthetic VS. Organic conflicts in the whole trilogy we could basically prove its logic is flawed and in a way "glitch" it into reprogramming the collective consiousness of the Reapers thus making them realize that Synthetics and Organics can perfectly coexist after all.

 

Paragon Choice :

-Good Ending :You convince the StarBrat, it tells you the Reapers will cease the Harvest,then retreat to Dark Space and self destruct because their programming is now wrong and they have no reason to exist.Minimal if no casualties at all as far as other characters go.

-Bad Ending: Same as above BUT the casualties are very high,some of Shepard's friends die.Higher overall death toll due to low War Assets.Victory but still bittersweet.

 

The Paragon choice was to "allow" the Reapers to go by not firing the Crucible. (In this version the Crucible has only one function, it destroys the Reapers and damages the Relays -not beyond repair-)

 

Renegade Choice : 

-Good Ending : Reapers as stated above, will retreat and self-destruct but renegade Shep  wants to be a badass and decides to fire the Crucible because he doesn't trust that they won't come back so he wipes them out pre-emptively.Again Lower overall death toll because of high War Asset gathering.Perfect happy ending.(OK, the relays are a bit screwed but they slowly rebuild them.)

-Bad Ending : Just like above.Crucible is fired.Reapers wiped out BUT all the rest is similar to the Paragon Good ending but due to low war assets and lack of preparation there are higher death tolls and are closest companions die.Still positive however, because Reapers are wiped out.

 

If we had a similar ending to this, I believe there would be no major outcry and today we would be having the announcement of Mass Effect 4 rather than Mass Effect Andromeda

 

 

Anyway, why the hell am I even bothering.

 

But a girl can daydream  

N-no, that would be too saccharine!  Y-you must like Disney endings!  Also, it gives too many options!  It makes too much sense! 

 

The endings MUST be artsy fartsy and kill off Shepard because in my own delusions, I believe that in a galaxy in which faster than light travel is possible, realism must conform to a way in which I self-righteously ordain it!  Reapers can't be conventionally beaten so that must mean... [Insert some other such nonsense here]

[elrofrost]

Allowing real choice regarding fate of Shep might have taken a little bit of steam from the response. It still wouldn't have changed the fact that ME3's ending was an utter trainwreck featuring a laughable last minute DEM character.

 

Don't agree at all that Inquisition's ending was worse than ME3. Inquisition's ending was rather average but still miles better than ME3's, post pre and post extended cut.

Story wise, the ending of DAI was better then ME3, IMHO.

But not the fight. The final battle in DAI was laughable.  ME3? The last battle on the highest level, with a virgin char- good luck.

 

But where ME3 shines over DAI is with the companions. Forget the ending (I do). Play ME3 for the charaters. This is the only area where your prior choices do matter.

My first ME3 game I imported a ME2 save where the only loyality quest I did was Garrus' (it wasn't on purpose - had been so long since I played ME2 this was the only save I had left). Man. When Grunt died, that was it. I just stopped and replayed ME1 & 2, then moved on to 3.

I'll remember ME3 long after I forget DAI. To me, DAI was a traggic end to an otherwise geat story and series. It's sad. And I don't want a DA4.

 

ME3? Its remembering loved charaters from a game. Like the old DND games are to me. Sure,  their tech sucks compared to today's tech, but I still break out Pool of Radiance and play it.

[Xaijin]

Shepard hadn't died at the end?

Lets face it, we can all go on about how the ending didn't make sense and was a lazy rip off of Deus Ex and yadda yadda yadda, but in the end the real problem with the ending was that Shepard died and you did not get the happy ending you wanted.

Of course I am not saying the ending wasn't **** for legitimate reasons (though I really don't think it deserved quite the backlash it got) but if you look at the ending to Inquisition you will notice that despite being far shittier than the ending to Mass Effect 3 there are nowhere near as many people complaining about it, in fact you even got more than a few people willing to praise it despite not delivering on the whole "40 endings" thing that was claimed before release, and it is all because the fans got their happy ending.

So I guess the moral of the story is give the fans a happy ending or they will burn down your house.

The moral of the story is do not remove the agency of the player to re-enact the scene in the Matrix ReLoaded where everything falls apart and call that the end of five years of playing a franchise.

As a someone in game design, I've used ME3 as a textbook example of how to crush your longterm player investment in one fell swoop.

[Catastrophy]

It's not that Shepard died, it's about that the death felt pointless, unneccesary and in the end I could see no "redemption" for my character. You can do this with minor characters, but not with a protagonist people foster over several years.

[KaiserShep]

In reality, what would have helped immensely for me is if Shepard didn't say crap like "There has to be another way" as a segue into more options, but then autodialogue is an issue throughout.

[ZombiePopper]

For me,
It ultimately came down to 1 thing;
IF, BW wanted to kill-off Shep, fine.
BUT at least make his/her death scene magnificent.
If I ask all the ME fans "Who had the best death scene in ME3?" I'd get answers ranging from Mordin (very powerful scene) to Thane (another very moving and powerful scene) to Legion or Grunt or Miranda etc etc.
I'd be willing to bet VERY few (if any) would respond that Shep's death scene was the best (let's face it, it isn't.).
That's my major problem with it. Kill Shep off? Fine. At least make it powerful and memorable. For me Shep's death scene was the worst and completely forgettable.

Sure, ultimately I would've like to have seen Shep on Rannoch w/Tali but that wasn't a "HAVE to have" for me.

The pre-EC ending was far worse, IMO than the EC ending. It's basically; pre-EC= no ending and EC IS the ending. Granted, there was still major issues but it is at least better.
Personally,
I commend BW for doing the "right thing" by releasing the EC ending.
But it was the "right thing" to do honestly. If I return an elderly gentleman's wallet, I don't expect to be carried around on people's shoulder's for doing the right thing though.

Does no one else remember the original FO3 ending????
Choice;
A) enter chamber char dies-game over.
B ) send Lyons into chamber, take a karma hit, Lyons dies-game over.
Bethesda released another DLC ending for free because of the gamer uproar and your char then lives after entering the chamber.
Point is;
BW is not the first to release an ending DLC post-release for a game.
BUT,
I've said it before and I'll say it again;
I don't think BW deserved the massive backlash they received. It's my belief that EA was responsible and should've received that backlash. Albeit the RBG choices and lack of previous game choices falls firmly on BW shoulders. But I think including all the choices from previous games was a monumental undertaking and BW simply "bit off more than they could chew". That illustrates BW's love of this franchise, IMO (to even think of attempting such a massive task.).
As far as the DAI ending,
Yeah it's weak, very weak.
But then so are all the characters. I don't care about any of them. BW could literally kill-off the entire squad and I really could care less. They're flat, boring, uninteresting which is the complete and total opposite of my feelings toward the ME cast.

[Asharad Hett]

In my first play through:

- A kid that I tried to save died, then

- Mordin died, then

- Thane died, then

- Ashley died, then

- Miranda died, then

- the Rachni Queen died, then

- Primarch Victus' son died, then

- Eve died, then

- Kelly Chambers died, then

- Conran Verner died, then

- Morinth died, then

- Tali died, then

- Legion died, then

- Steve died, then

- Anderson dies, then

- Shepard dies, then

- Geth and EDI die, then

- Earth was destroyed, then

- Mass relays were destroyed, then

- The Normany was destroyed, with no sign of survivors.

 

Now, you ask me if my attitude would have been improved if Shepard survived?  No.  Just no.  The game was nothing but death, and only slightly improved if you played a specific way and grinded multiplayer.  The game is depressing, even with the "extended cut" which merely placed flowers on the grave and eliminated the need for multiplayer to get the least depressing ending.

[voteDC]

Shepard living would not a happy ending make.

You'd still have trillions living with poverty and disease. Worlds unable to do anything about that because they are cut off from available resources thanks to the destruction of the Mass Relays, that's even if they had any ships left that the Reapers didn't destroy in order to use them.

A confirmation that Shepard lives, and to me the breath scene does not count, would have added a rousing element to what was a pretty dour selection of choices.

Of course the Extended Cut did a lot to fix that. Make the right choices and you get to see a happy outcome for the galaxy. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the Extended Cut had been the shipped ending things would not have blown up as they did.

[aliastasia]

I actually thought Shepard had died and it was the end when (s)he fell down at the console.
And I was cool with that.
What wasn't cool, for me, was that I: 

a) felt as if I was forced to pick green/Synthesis - Saren's choice, and

StarChild, or rather Snotnose comes out of nowhere, and despite the EC, I still get three badly told endings - it was kind of in the cards that Shepard would die. I just didn't want my Shep to die as badly as that, and I don't think it's a good thing when you end a game which you spendt hours and hours and hours in leaves you with a "WTF was THAT?" rather than a sense of goodbye and closure.

c) BioWare's reaction played a big part in the player backlash - If you promise me a product containing "No A, B, or C" endings, on top of a product that had bad texturing and DA2-type, meaningless fetch-quests, and didn't have the pulse that its predecessors had, I am not an entitled gamer who doesn't understand artistic integrity, I am a customer you lied to. (and who was dumb enough to believe the lies)

So - I think the backlash would have been somewhat tempered if there was just one "out" where Shepard lives, but it wasn't essential for me - point C in my list was what counted the most.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Having just experienced the ending for the first time, I don't really understand all the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the Indoctination Theory. It would have been cool if the Destroy ending actually confirmed it. It could even be explained that all the time Shepard spent gathering extra war assets to unlock the Control and Synthesis endings are what exposed her to the Reapers enough for indoctrination to occur.

I think I would have loved that.

As it is, I'm happy to headcanon it (my Shepard chose Control, and believes she controls the Reapers).

[Asharad Hett]

Having just experienced the ending for the first time, I don't really understand all the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

If you just recently experienced the ending, I'm not sure you can appreciate the depression that many felt due to the original endings.

 

Did you get to watch Earth burn?  Did you see ALL of your friends die?  Did you see the Normandy crash with no survivors?  Did you see the pop-up window that said "thanks for playing our depressing game-please buy some DLC"?

 

Did you play a game with no memorial, no happiness, and all death.  The ending felt like I surrendered to the Starkid.  He was very negative.   I didn't get a synthesis ending, because I had not played multiplayer yet.  The sales pitch for control felt like a trap, and there was no evidence that Starkid delivered on his promise after you electrocuted yourself.  It was quite horrible, and I'm still mad at myself for allow ME3 to hurt me so.  I was truly depressed, you can ask my wife.  

 

Imagine watching your favorite movie saga and getting these endings:

 

- Star Wars:  Luke joins the Sith to bring peace to the galaxy.  He destroys the rebel alliance and the empire.  

- Lord of the Rings:  Frodo keeps the ring, and magically captures Sauran.  Middle Earth is depopulated when Mt Doom erupts.

- Harry Potter:  Harry uses the Deathly Hallows to kill Tom Riddle (and everyone else in wizarding world).  

- Hunger Games:  Katniss drops a nuke on Panam to bring peace to the 13 states (because everyone is dead).

[AlanC9]

In reality, what would have helped immensely for me is if Shepard didn't say crap like "There has to be another way" as a segue into more options, but then autodialogue is an issue throughout.

Yeah. That might not be quite the worst line in ME3, but it's up there.

[Sylvius the Mad]

If you just recently experienced the ending, I'm not sure you can appreciate the depression that many felt due to the original endings.

Did you get to watch Earth burn? Did you see ALL of your friends die? Did you see the Normandy crash with no survivors? Did you see the pop-up window that said "thanks for playing our depressing game-please buy some DLC"?

Did you play a game with no memorial, no happiness, and all death. The ending felt like I surrendered to the Starkid. He was very negative. I didn't get a synthesis ending, because I had not played multiplayer yet. The sales pitch for control felt like a trap, and there was no evidence that Starkid delivered on his promise after you electrocuted yourself. It was quite horrible, and I'm still mad at myself for allow ME3 to hurt me so. I was truly depressed, you can ask my wife.

I didn't play MP either (at all - not once), and I played without the extended cut so I could see the original endings as best I could, but I did get my Galactic Readiness up by other means.

Still, I didn't want the Synthesis ending. I would have to reload and replay to get the ending I wanted.

I only really liked two companions in the whole series, and I lost both of them well before the ending (Mordin and Legion).

[AlanC9]

Still, I didn't want the Synthesis ending.  I had to reload and replay to get the ending I wanted.
 .

I figure this is in the other thread, but how come you ended up reloading?

[Killdren88]

I'm selfish. I wouldn't be happy unless I was given a return of the Jedi Ending....

[Sylvius the Mad]

I figure this is in the other thread, but how come you ended up reloading?

Because the game was unclear about what it was I had Shepard doing. My Shepard would have chosen Control over Synthesis, because she'd liked TIM's control idea from the very start of the game (that she was forced to act as though she thought it was a terrible idea vexed me greatly).

I saw only one path, and when I wandered up to investigate Shepard took off in a cinematic sprint and threw herself into the beam.

Though, I should clarify, I didn't actually reload. I would have to in order to play out the ending properly, but that doesn't seem necessary. I can just watch them on YouTube now to find out how they might constrain my headcanon.