225 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Ah, I see. Just a pure interface problem. Yeah, that wasn't too well designed.

Reloading there is tricky -- there's an autosave point when you arrive at the platform, but I think it gets overwritten if you play the ending out. Easy enough to alt-tab on PC and copy the save, though. But not important since you'd already played it and made your choice.

[AlanC9]

In my first play through:
- A kid that I tried to save died, then
- Mordin died, then
- Thane died, then
- Ashley died, then
- Miranda died, then
- the Rachni Queen died, then
- Primarch Victus' son died, then
- Eve died, then
- Kelly Chambers died, then
- Conran Verner died, then
- Morinth died, then
- Tali died, then
- Legion died, then
- Steve died, then
- Anderson dies, then
- Shepard dies, then
- Geth and EDI die, then
- Earth was destroyed, then
- Mass relays were destroyed, then
- The Normany was destroyed, with no sign of survivors.

How'd you manage a game this bad without trying? It looks like you made every bad decision you possibly could.

[voteDC]

Don't be silly. The Catalyst isn't in control of anything in the last minutes. Unless you're arguing that he has no preference among Refuse, Destroy, Control, and Synthesis? That'd be hard to reconcile with his dialogue, and in any event a being with no preferences concerning the outcome of his fundamental purpose can hardly be said to be allowing anything.

The Catalyst brings Shepard to the activation chamber, seems to me that it is helping Shepard move in a direction that it desires.

[AlanC9]

Let's assume he did that for the moment. So you're saying that he really doesn't have a preference between Destroy, Control, and Synthesis, and that he considers Refuse the worst option? How do you figure that?

[themikefest]

Of course the Extended Cut did a lot to fix that. Make the right choices and you get to see a happy outcome for the galaxy. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the Extended Cut had been the shipped ending things would not have blown up as they did.

I would agree to that if the what-the-crap evac scene is removed and Bioware somehow is able to have Miranda and Jack hold Shepard's nameplate instead of another character in the memorial scene.

 

The one thing that the extended cut fixed, at least for me, was the flashbacks when Shepard is choosing an ending

[Obadiah]

OP, I think another reason for the backlash is that fans thought they could get Bioware to change the ending. I think that notion drove people a little nuts to be honest.

[KaiserShep]

I would agree to that if the what-the-crap evac scene is removed and Bioware somehow is able to have Miranda and Jack hold Shepard's nameplate instead of another character in the memorial scene.

 

The one thing that the extended cut fixed, at least for me, was the flashbacks when Shepard is choosing an ending

 

I'm kind of on the fence about the evac scene. It obviously contradicts Anderson's whole no retreat thing, but at the same time, I really really hate how everyone just magically teleports to the Normandy all of a sudden, so they do evac…somehow, but it just suddenly happens off-screen, and that's kind of worse to me.

[Asharad Hett]

How'd you manage a game this bad without trying? It looks like you made every bad decision you possibly could.

 

Only a couple of deaths were due to my decisions.   Some deaths were forced on me regardless of my choices.  Some of the deaths were forced on me because I wasn't a completionist during my first play through of ME3.   The Earth and Normandy were destroyed because I didn't play multiplayer. 

[voteDC]

Let's assume he did that for the moment. So you're saying that he really doesn't have a preference between Destroy, Control, and Synthesis, and that he considers Refuse the worst option? How do you figure that?

The Catalyst did bring Shepard to the chamber. We see this clearly in the game.

We are also dealing with a Shepard who is likely severely concussed and is certainly suffering from bloodloss. Both of which are known to make people susceptible to suggestion.

So we have the Catalyst who rambles on to confuse someone who is already in a confused state, all while saying that synthesis is the best option.

[themikefest]

I'm kind of on the fence about the evac scene. It obviously contradicts Anderson's whole no retreat thing, but at the same time, I really really hate how everyone just magically teleports to the Normandy all of a sudden, so they do evac…somehow, but it just suddenly happens off-screen, and that's kind of worse to me.

I can come up with an explanation on how both squadmates get back on the Normandy, but I can't come up with an explanation on how Steve gets back on the Normandy.

[voteDC]

The evac is one of the problems the Extended Cut introduced while attempting to fix a problem from the orginal endings.

How did the crew get back to the Normandy? Well they obviously got a pick up. So the ship just left the most important battle in history to save a handful of people and floated in front of a Reaper without getting shot at?

Surely a better solution would have been for Steve (random Alliance pilot if Steve is dead) to hijack a unused/abandoned shuttle to fly the people back.

[KaiserShep]

I can come up with an explanation on how both squadmates get back on the Normandy, but I can't come up with an explanation on how Steve gets back on the Normandy.

 

I can't imagine why anyone would be on the Normandy, really. The only ones who should've remained would be Joker and Samantha. Everyone else should have been fighting reapers the entire time, especially Javik, who would sooner die than run. But it wouldn't have been much of a "Garden of Eden" image in the original ending if it was just those two...

 

or would it? 

[themikefest]

Surely a better solution would have been for Steve (random Alliance pilot if Steve is dead) to hijack a unused/abandoned shuttle to fly the people back.

A better explanation for Steve would be the shuttle crashes near the forward operating base. He's able to get there without encountering any uglies. When seen at the fob, Steve has a slight limp and a cut or two on his face.What this does, it gives a goodbye between him and Shepard.  He then takes the second shuttle that was used to get the other squadmates to London to pick up the two squadmates after Harbinger leaves

[Sylvius the Mad]

The evac is one of the problems the Extended Cut introduced while attempting to fix a problem from the orginal endings.

How did the crew get back to the Normandy? Well they obviously got a pick up. So the ship just left the most important battle in history to save a handful of people and floated in front of a Reaper without getting shot at?

Surely a better solution would have been for Steve (random Alliance pilot if Steve is dead) to hijack a unused/abandoned shuttle to fly the people back.

Even without the extended cut, it made no sense.

I had Liara and EDI with me in London. We all got hit by the Reaper. Then I go up the beam and do my thing.

When the end scene fires and I see Joker on that new planet, EDI and Liara (and only EDI and Liara) are with him.

I thought they were dead or incapacitated. How did they get back to the Normandy with all those Reapers around?

[AlanC9]

Only a couple of deaths were due to my decisions. Some deaths were forced on me regardless of my choices. Some of the deaths were forced on me because I wasn't a completionist during my first play through of ME3. The Earth and Normandy were destroyed because I didn't play multiplayer.

Actually, the Earth and Normandy were destroyed because you didn't play anything close to completionist and didn't play multiplayer. There's plenty of WA points in the game, enough to preseve both without too much difficulty.

How'd you get Ashley killed? Non-import and bad dialogue choices? It's almost impossible to fail that dialogue check in an imported game.

Not going completionist was a bad choice if you wanted things to go well. Surely you realized that? The EMS system is pretty clear.

[AlanC9]

Even without the extended cut, it made no sense.
I had Liara and EDI with me in London. We all got hit by the Reaper. Then I go up the beam and do my thing.
When the end scene fires and I see Joker on that new planet, EDI and Liara (and only EDI and Liara) are with him.
I thought they were dead or incapacitated. How did they get back to the Normandy with all those Reapers around?

Yeah, that situation is what the evac scene is there to clean up. Not all that successfully.

[AlanC9]

The Catalyst did bring Shepard to the chamber. We see this clearly in the game.

Do we see that? I saw the platform go up, and then Shepard meets the Catalyst, who isn't exactly happy to see him in low EMS states.

We are also dealing with a Shepard who is likely severely concussed and is certainly suffering from bloodloss. Both of which are known to make people susceptible to suggestion.
So we have the Catalyst who rambles on to confuse someone who is already in a confused state, all while saying that synthesis is the best option.

Hmm... so the Catalyst is taking a wild gamble here that he can talk Shepard into synthesis, at the risk of total disaster if he can't. Almost plausible, if the Catalyst is both massively overconfident and has a horribly poor grasp of human psychology. We can stipulate those as possibilities.

But what if Synthesis isn't available?

[Asharad Hett]

Actually, the Earth and Normandy were destroyed because you didn't play anything close to completionist and didn't play multiplayer. There's plenty of WA points in the game, enough to preseve both without too much difficulty.

For destroy, the requirement for Normany survivors was 2050 EMS.  The requirement to save the Earth was 2350 EMS.   Add in the 50% readiness penalty for not playing multiplayer, and we needed 4100 WA to save Normandy and 4700 WA to save the Earth.  Furthermore I lacked ME2 DLC war assets, because I didn't have the DLC at the time.  So because I didn't do every fetch quest and make perfect dialogue choices, you blame me for the game be grim-dark depressing.   

 

 

How'd you get Ashley killed? Non-import and bad dialogue choices? It's almost impossible to fail that dialogue check in an imported game.

 

Ashley is killed automatically if you make three decisions:  

- In ME1 you sacrifice the council and save the fleet

- Be unkind to her during Priority Mars (she was being a ******).

- Fail to visit Ashley in the hospital after she wakes.

 

 

Not going completionist was a bad choice if you wanted things to go well. Surely you realized that? The EMS system is pretty clear.

Not at the time of release.  It wasn't clear at all.

[themikefest]

For destroy, the requirement for Normany survivors was 2050 EMS.

The only time the number 2050 ems comes up is if you picked control according to the collector's edition guidebook on page 323. It doesn't mention anything if the Normandy crew survives or not.

With the extended cut if ems below 1750, the crew are believed dead since the door to the Normandy doesn't open. This only happens if destroy is chosen
 

The requirement to save the Earth was 2350 EMS.

You're correct about that number according to the guidebook
 

Add in the 50% readiness penalty for not playing multiplayer, and we needed 4100 WA to save Normandy

Don't know where you're getting that number from. The player needed at least 4000 ems to get the breath scene if Anderson is "saved". If TIM kills Anderson, the player needed 5000 ems. To get those numbers the player did have to play multiplayer.

 

and 4700 WA to save the Earth.

When using that number you mean total military strength, right?
 
 

Ashley is killed automatically if you make three decisions:  
- In ME1 you sacrifice the council and save the fleet
- Be unkind to her during Priority Mars (she was being a ******).
- Fail to visit Ashley in the hospital after she wakes.

Do you have anything that proves that letting the council die in ME1 plays a role in Ashley/Kaidan being killed during the coup?

Even treating Ashley/Kaidan bad on Mars and ignoring them in the hospital, the player can avoid shooting them if the right dialogue and the interrupt is used
 
 
 

[Asharad Hett]

http://masseffect.wi...l_Confrontation

Ashley cannot always be saved, and it's not hard to get that result. I did.

[Asharad Hett]

Yes, I'm taking about military strength (war assets). If you didn't play multiplayer, WA must be double the EMS requirement. My source for EMS was IGN. We can argue the exact numbers, but my point doesn't change.

My point was that my first play through wasn't prefect, which resulted in everyone dying. Why would I want Shepard to live through that?

[themikefest]

http://masseffect.wi...l_Confrontation

Ashley cannot always be saved, and it's not hard to get that result. I did.

I don't agree with that at all. I always kill the council in ME1. I've treated Ashley very poorly on Mars and never saw her in the hospital. I still was able to avoid shooting her during the coup
 

Yes, I'm taking about military strength (war assets). If you didn't play multiplayer, WA must be double the EMS requirement. My source for EMS was IGN. We can argue the exact numbers, but my point doesn't change.

Can you post a link?
 

My point was that my first play through wasn't prefect, which resulted in everyone dying. Why would I want Shepard to live through that?

What was your ems when heading to Earth or at least your tms?

[Asharad Hett]

I'll load up the game tonight. However I don't expect to get the same results now that DLC has been installed. I'll also try to find a save with Ashley being too stubborn to live.

[Asharad Hett]

Can you post a link?

http://m.ign.com/wik...-_With_Spoilers

[themikefest]

http://m.ign.com/wik...-_With_Spoilers

They mention at the top of the page that saving the collector base gives an extra 100 war assets. That's incorrect. Its 110 war assets. Destroying the base gives 100 war assets

 

Also when I did my low ems run, between 1750 and 1900, before the extended cut was released, Joker and Samantha were seen exiting the Normandy. Don't recall who the third character that walked out of the Normandy.They along with the others on the Normandy survive. I picked destroy. Earth was not vaporized. That only happens if ems is below 1750