420 réponses à ce sujet

[aerisblight]

You know what would be awsome? If we found a new kind of darkspawn in this new dlc.
The darkspawn will be called barberspawn and for 40 gold he will give you an awsome new haircut!

[MrCrabby]

Oh goody, more hack and slash. 

 

As if this game doesn't have enough already. How about a DLC that expands the NPC's and is totally story driven? Or will that be to isolating to the illiterate twitch shooter demographic that the games industry is so obsessed with?

 

Remember when Bioware games had dialogue, character development and plot?

[Jeniva]

You can see Solas fighting by your side. So it's not post ending exclusive.

i dont want to reload pre cory fight again, i've done a few things since. 

[MisterJB]

 

The Legacy trailer was not so different from this one.

Let's hope it's as good.

[MisterJB]

 

A broodmother.

 

Please, let there be a broodmother. An elven or qunari one, preferably.

[Ariella]

Oh goody, more hack and slash. 
 
As if this game doesn't have enough already. How about a DLC that expands the NPC's and is totally story driven? Or will that be to isolating to the illiterate twitch shooter demographic that the games industry is so obsessed with?
 
Remember when Bioware games had dialogue, character development and plot?

We don't know what "this" is aside from a visit to the Deep Roads. Trailers show things that catch the eye. It's the same reason why book covers, for example, tend to be flashy. You want to get the attention of the buyer. So why don't we try to not judge a book by its cover, since we don't know what the content really looks like.

And as pointed out by others, Legacy was probably one of the best DLC Bioware has put out thus far. I'd go as far to say it is THE best DLC put out for Dragon Age.

[Korva]

But when the hack'n'slash and the flashy-whizzy-shooty-bang-bang-boom are considered to be "what gets attention", especially combined with it explicitly being a dungeon crawl, it's hard not to be cynical and instead hope for this DLC to address what some of us consider to be the main game's very real problems instead of cheerfully continuing in the same vein or worse.

 

There's so much one could do with the setting in general and this premise in particular, so many ways it could be advertised and how atmosphere could be built with a few scenes and words. Ancient mystery, valor and loss and sacrifice, intense horror, the presence of the companions. Like Varric commenting with unusual severity on what terrible memories he has of the Deep Roads and how he never hoped to see them again. Or Cole, soft and otherworldly but strained, warning of the sick songs in the deep. It's a shame that over and over, the "AAA" industry instead goes for the lowest common denominator of the bang-bang-boom and the gore (and t*ts) regardless of genre. Games are more diverse than that, playerbases are more diverse than that.

[ShadowLordXII]

The artistic reason was that genlocks looked silly, and why would there be a quota on bestial darkspawn?
 
Well, I'm just seeing "I liked DAO better than DA2, so **** the devs".  FYI, while DA2 hurlocks looked silly I thought the genlocks were a vast improvement.

 

Yes, I do like Origins better than DA2. But that's besides the truth. Origins is factually and objectively a better game than DA2 in many respects.

 

So there's two things about the genlock thing that are silly to me. One is that the art direction of the clearly inferior (but not bad) game is being prioritized over the better game and the second is that the developers honestly expect players to retroactively retcon every single genlock seen in the past as being hulking ape-beasts.

 

No, it's not there's a quota on bestial darkspawn, it's just that this makes the stated reason for the artistic retcon of genlocks all the more silly and pointless. And what's silly about the genlocks anyway? They're terrifying goblins that almost look like they're dead and they're the most numerous of the darkspawn horde.

 

I don't even hate the genlock ape-beasts. But a stupid decision is still a stupid decision and it would be merely better to have the ape-beasts be a unique branch of genlocks rather than the apparent ret-gone that's taking place. 

 

Oh well, if the devs are really going this direction then it's just one more pointless and nonsensical retcon to ignore.

[Ariella]

But when the hack'n'slash and the flashy-whizzy-shooty-bang-bang-boom are considered to be "what gets attention", especially combined with it explicitly being a dungeon crawl, it's hard not to be cynical and instead hope for this DLC to address what some of us consider to be the main game's very real problems instead of cheerfully continuing in the same vein or worse.

Yes, visually exciting scenes attract the eye. This is how visual based media works. You don't tend to put long sequences of conversation in a trailer. As VO, yes, but what's being seen has to be interesting or people change the channel as it were.

And a good portion of the trailer wasn't action, but environmental. The camera passes showing the expanse of the dungeon? Bioware seems to be finding its footing with this engine.

I'm not a fan of combat. I find it something to be endured, not enjoyed. However, I am well aware I'm in the minority, but I don't see combat being DAI's biggest problem. In fact I found DAO to be much worse in that arena. I know many people loved the interrupted in transit encounters in DAO, but for me, it got old fast.

If after reading reviews people find the DLC is not for them, that's great. That's making an educated choice on a purchase. Assumptions based on one trailer, which is designed to capture attention by being visually interesting? But that's your choice.

[Darkstarr11]

Yes, I do like Origins better than DA2. But that's besides the truth. Origins is factually and objectively a better game than DA2 in many respects.

 

So there's two things about the genlock thing that are silly to me. One is that the art direction of the clearly inferior (but not bad) game is being prioritized over the better game and the second is that the developers honestly expect players to retroactively retcon every single genlock seen in the past as being hulking ape-beasts.

 

No, it's not there's a quota on bestial darkspawn, it's just that this makes the stated reason for the artistic retcon of genlocks all the more silly and pointless. And what's silly about the genlocks anyway? They're terrifying goblins that almost look like they're dead and they're the most numerous of the darkspawn horde.

 

I don't even hate the genlock ape-beasts. But a stupid decision is still a stupid decision and it would be merely better to have the ape-beasts be a unique branch of genlocks rather than the apparent ret-gone that's taking place. 

 

Oh well, if the devs are really going this direction then it's just one more pointless and nonsensical retcon to ignore.

 

I figured that kinda was the case.  We never saw the 'new' Genlock in DAO, which was in Ferelden.  So I thought the new ones came from the Free Marches.  Or possibly that they were from different dwarves.  Perhaps due to other factors, dwarves from Kal-Sharok change into a different form of Genlock?  I try not to think about it too much though.  They changed things quite a bit.  Apparently everyone forgot how to use healing magic as well...

[Heimdall]

Yes, I do like Origins better than DA2. But that's besides the truth. Origins is factually and objectively a better game than DA2 in many respects.

Even If I accepted that to be true, I would disagree that genlocks were one of those "respects"
 

So there's two things about the genlock thing that are silly to me. One is that the art direction of the clearly inferior (but not bad) game is being prioritized over the better game and the second is that the developers honestly expect players to retroactively retcon every single genlock seen in the past as being hulking ape-beasts.

Of all the facets of a game, the direction is perhaps one of the most subjective. I thought DA2 did a lot right in that area. They already retconned it. I seriously doubt they care whether or not it bothers you while you replay Origins
 

No, it's not there's a quota on bestial darkspawn, it's just that this makes the stated reason for the artistic retcon of genlocks all the more silly and pointless. And what's silly about the genlocks anyway? They're terrifying goblins that almost look like they're dead and they're the most numerous of the darkspawn horde.

Terrifying? They were tiny stumpy green goblins, the least intimidating of all the darkspawn. They're still the most numerous of the horde, they just look different.
 

I don't even hate the genlock ape-beasts. But a stupid decision is still a stupid decision and it would be merely better to have the ape-beasts be a unique branch of genlocks rather than the apparent ret-gone that's taking place. 
 
Oh well, if the devs are really going this direction then it's just one more pointless and nonsensical retcon to ignore.

Look, I get the desire for consistency but that doesn't make it more sensible to suddenly have darkspawn subspecies of a subspecies with handwave explanations.

[ShadowLordXII]

Even If I accepted that to be true, I would disagree that genlocks were one of those "respects"
 

Of all the facets of a game, the direction is perhaps one of the most subjective. I thought DA2 did a lot right in that area. They already retconned it. I seriously doubt they care whether or not it bothers you while you replay Origins
 

Terrifying? They were tiny stumpy green goblins, the least intimidating of all the darkspawn. They're still the most numerous of the horde, they just look different.
 

Look, I get the desire for consistency but that doesn't make it more sensible to suddenly have darkspawn subspecies of a subspecies with handwave explanations.

 

They really were, just like how darkspawn had both the air and appearance of monstrous destruction. In DA2, the darkspawn became a joke. They lost the grotesque and horrific aspect of their design that instills fear and sheer terror and became...cleaner...But what was wrong with the previous direction? What's wrong with having the darkspawn look like monsters? That's exactly what they were. Evil and destructive monsters. Their design bluntly reflected this aspect. Any similarities to fantasy orcs are pointless as the darkspawn were still effective in their own world.

 

It's not a matter of making me happy, it's a matter of keeping things consistent and not changing crap just for the sake of change. Creating a compromise between the Origins and DA2 art directions seems like the best way to create more consistency for darkspawn lore and not confusing players. There are already different types of hurlocks, shrieks, and so on in both Origins and DA2, why can't there be more than one type of Genlock? That wouldn't be a handwave, that would be an expansion of darkspawn lore that also reconciles apparently conflicting visions of the two previous games so that players can spend more time enjoying the game and story rather than being distracted by the elephant in the room.

 

So close this debate before it becomes circular, it's possible that those armored warriors are high-functional ghouls though I personally doubt it. I still put my money on Origins Genlocks and that won't change till I see otherwise in the DLC. From what I saw in the trailer, the DA2 ape hurlocks that we saw appear to stand-up a little more so perhaps there is a compromise involved. Or maybe the devs have made the unwise decision of prioritizing DA2's artistic vision over Origins.

 

We won't know for certain till the DLC is out and the slaughter begins.

[Ynqve]

But when the hack'n'slash and the flashy-whizzy-shooty-bang-bang-boom are considered to be "what gets attention", especially combined with it explicitly being a dungeon crawl, it's hard not to be cynical and instead hope for this DLC to address what some of us consider to be the main game's very real problems instead of cheerfully continuing in the same vein or worse.

 

There's so much one could do with the setting in general and this premise in particular, so many ways it could be advertised and how atmosphere could be built with a few scenes and words. Ancient mystery, valor and loss and sacrifice, intense horror, the presence of the companions. Like Varric commenting with unusual severity on what terrible memories he has of the Deep Roads and how he never hoped to see them again. Or Cole, soft and otherworldly but strained, warning of the sick songs in the deep. It's a shame that over and over, the "AAA" industry instead goes for the lowest common denominator of the bang-bang-boom and the gore (and t*ts) regardless of genre. Games are more diverse than that, playerbases are more diverse than that.

 

But we don't know anything about how story/action heavy the DLC will be yet. For all we know they decided to show fighting and pretty scenery in order to grab peoples attention without spoiling anything. I wouldn't judge it on a trailer alone. 

 

And if they're going to do a really story heavy DLC (and I hope they will), it would make sense to save it for last. It would end DAI on a high note and make people more excited for the next game.

[TeffexPope]

Oh goody, more hack and slash. 

 

As if this game doesn't have enough already. How about a DLC that expands the NPC's and is totally story driven? Or will that be to isolating to the illiterate twitch shooter demographic that the games industry is so obsessed with?

 

Remember when Bioware games had dialogue, character development and plot?

Sounds like what you're looking for is...a book. Or a movie. Try one of those, maybe? Instead of going to the stupid trope of 'action in games = anybody who likes that is a mouth-breather'. 

 

I recall seeing bioware saying that there would be one more single player DLC. If this is it, then it would seem the loose end of Solas (and the fact he is shown as a possible companion in the deep roads) is going to be solved in the next game. Hm. I always assumed they would tie that knot with an Inquisition DLC.

[leaguer of one]

Oh goody, more hack and slash. 

 

As if this game doesn't have enough already. How about a DLC that expands the NPC's and is totally story driven? Or will that be to isolating to the illiterate twitch shooter demographic that the games industry is so obsessed with?

 

Remember when Bioware games had dialogue, character development and plot?

No dlc is ever going to do that unless it's about a new character. All dlc must be made so it's an extra and no one who does not play them misses out on anything that involves the story of the main game.

[Heimdall]

They really were, just like how darkspawn had both the air and appearance of monstrous destruction. In DA2, the darkspawn became a joke. They lost the grotesque and horrific aspect of their design that instills fear and sheer terror and became...cleaner...But what was wrong with the previous direction? What's wrong with having the darkspawn look like monsters? That's exactly what they were. Evil and destructive monsters. Their design bluntly reflected this aspect. Any similarities to fantasy orcs are pointless as the darkspawn were still effective in their own world.

Their justification for the redesign was partly that DAO darkspawn didn't look unified. They were a hodgepodge rather than appearing to be variants of the same species. Another was that their supposedly scavenged and thrown together armor was actually the most complicated and ornate armor in the game.

I agree that the hurlocks especially lost their monstrousness and their new armor wasn't much of an improvement, but there was nothing terrifying or intimidating about those stunted goblins. I don't mourn them in the least.

The DAO darkspawn designs weren't perfect. They were criticized, the silly genlocks most of all. To address those concerns, Bioware needed to change. Let it not be said that there was nothing wrong with the old design. Whether or not you think they succeeded is another matter.

It's not a matter of making me happy, it's a matter of keeping things consistent and not changing crap just for the sake of change. Creating a compromise between the Origins and DA2 art directions seems like the best way to create more consistency for darkspawn lore and not confusing players. There are already different types of hurlocks, shrieks, and so on in both Origins and DA2, why can't there be more than one type of Genlock? That wouldn't be a handwave, that would be an expansion of darkspawn lore that also reconciles apparently conflicting visions of the two previous games so that players can spend more time enjoying the game and story rather than being distracted by the elephant in the room.

Saying, "and these dwarf broodmothers produce ape-darkspawn instead of goblin-darkspawn because reasons" is certainly a hand wave. Bioware isn't the first developer to redesign a known enemy between games and few bother providing an explanation. Are you waiting for them to explain where the purple Ogres went and where the hurlocks got their new armor? Why the genlocks and not those questions? Or what natural disaster changed Redcliffe's topography? You won't get answers to those questions, because all of them are retcons. Why they would change that for the least liked darkspawn design of Origins is incomprehensible.

So close this debate before it becomes circular, it's possible that those armored warriors are high-functional ghouls though I personally doubt it. I still put my money on Origins Genlocks and that won't change till I see otherwise in the DLC. From what I saw in the trailer, the DA2 ape hurlocks that we saw appear to stand-up a little more so perhaps there is a compromise involved. Or maybe the devs have made the unwise decision of prioritizing DA2's artistic vision over Origins.

We won't know for certain till the DLC is out and the slaughter begins.

We won't know for certain, but betting on them retconning a retcon based off dwarf shaped figures in dwarfish armor is still reaching.

[Kakistos_]

I don't like the look of the Darkspawn. And why is the Inquisition investigating the tremors in the Deep roads? That job should be for the wardens and the HOF....

 

Dealing with Darkspawn is not their mandate though. It's the Wardens mandate...

If not a single person in there get's blighted then we know that Bioware doesn't care about it's own lore.

Normally I would agree but consider the state of the Grey Wardens at this point in time. The Grey Wardens of Ferelden have gone missing and the Grey Wardens of Orlais are either banished or allied with the Inquisition. The Wardens at Weisshaupt are also in some sort of crisis and Wardens of other lands are probably too far away to do anything in time. That leaves the Inquisition as a force ready and willing and with a mandate to restore peace and with potential Grey Warden allies in a position to step up and solve whatever is going on while the Wardens are otherwise indisposed.

 

That said, we really don't know much about what is going on, what the crisis is, who/what is the Big Bad. It is very possible that the Darkspawn are not the main culprits and are just present as a natural hazard and consequence of traveling the Deep Roads outside of a Blight. We can hardly expect the Wardens to babysit everyone that decides on an expedition into the deep.

[ShadowLordXII]

snip

 

I didn't say that Origins darkspawn designs where "perfect", I said that they were effective. Perhaps the genlocks were the least intimidating, but that didn't detract from the overall appearance of the darkspawn. One thing that stands out is that glasgow smile that the genlocks seemed to wear on their faces. Denoting that there was a clever danger to these smaller darkspawn that wasn't obvious due to their statue. Something all the more proven when they emerge in numbers or are proven to be just as savage and dangerous as their taller cousins.

 

If change was needed, then the devs choose the wrong direction. The darkspawn now lost that monstrous, ugly, horrific feel that made them effective. Hurlocks appear to be mummy ninjas now, emissaries are all the same rather than being different depending on whether they were hurlock or genlock emissaries, and genlocks look even more "generic" than their previous incarnations. The only change that didn't take away the menace of the darkspawn was the new shriek and ogre designs. But oh look! The shriek wasn't even in the game and the only real change made to the ogre was making it's skin pale.

 

No, I'm not taking that bait. If you think that I hate change for the sake of change, I don't. I acknowledge that some change is necessary, inevitable or even just happens. But that doesn't mean that it should be blinded accepted if it detracts from it's target. That's why I'm focusing on whether or not genlocks are now all ape-like brutes or if they're just an off-shoot from the goblin-like monsters from Origins. Descent may indicate that the latter is possible unless those armored enemies are actually dwarves or ghouls (unlikely, but whatever).

 

It's not a hand-wave to try and reconcile art designs, especially if there is room for a plausible explanation. For instance, you could say that the ape-like genlocks were an evolutionary off-shoot from rockier areas (like the Vinmark mountains) that evolved to gain greater upper body strength due to a change in their environment. But since they lower in numbers due being unable to compete with their more agile and diverse goblin-like cousins and thus are rarely encountered outside of darkspawn strongholds. But a darkspawn emissary/alpha decided that these darkspawn had their uses and thus engineered certain dwarf broodmothers to birth out the ape-like darkspawn as guards or heavy support.

 

It's not the best idea that I can come with, but the concept is noteworthy in many fantasy series. Including LOTR where the orc species has many sub-species within sub-species including pale orcs, "snaga" orcs, goblins, half-goblins, great-goblins, uruks, half-orcs, black orcs, uruk-hai, and many more that all evolved and became different due to differing environmental circumstances within the different locations that the orcs settled into or took from the free peoples.

 

Reconciling an attempted retcon from a failed game (yes, DA2 failed, even the Devs admitted to such) with prior knowledge from the first game isn't much of a reach. 

 

Done.

[thats1evildude]

Looking back at an old Legacy thread, I see how the majority of pre-release complaints were about Hawke dealing with the darkspawn instead of the Wardens.

 

Oh, the times, they don't change very much ... 

[myahele]

I wonder where the new DLC will take place. I was thinking that it will be in the "Shimmer Stone Mines" in the Western Approach simply due to similar circular staircase into a forgotten thaig. Additionally, it's been said there's been tremors there making it impossible to fully survey .... plus not too far was an Archdemon. And it's not too far from Kal Sharok, atleast

 

But Ladyinsanity said, with convincing evidence, that it might be in the Storm Coast

[MisterJB]

 

The new Darkspawn designs are an hit and miss.

The new hurlocks in particular are a miss bigger than when my people were looking for India and ended up discovering Brasil.

[Heimdall]

The new Darkspawn designs are an hit and miss.
The new hurlocks in particular are a miss bigger than why my people were looking India and ended up discovering Brasil.

New hurlocks were awful
New armor just made them look too uniform
I liked the universal pale coloration though, makes them look more cohesive.
The genlock design is the only thing I'll call an out and out improvement.

[Artemis_Entrari]

 

 

I recall seeing bioware saying that there would be one more single player DLC. If this is it, then it would seem the loose end of Solas (and the fact he is shown as a possible companion in the deep roads) is going to be solved in the next game. Hm. I always assumed they would tie that knot with an Inquisition DLC.

 

This is kind of my issue with these DLC Bio is releasing.  Instead of tying up any loose ends the main story created, they're just adding side content and leaving those loose ends for the next game.

 

The problem with that is two fold:

 

1-When have they ever satisfactorily tied up loose ends from a previous game?  Look at how the God-child was handled from DAO.  If they leave Solas and the Warden thing a loose end for the next game to pick up, chances are the next game will just give a half-assed explanation for it and move on to tell its own story.  So we're left with two pretty big hints/cliffhangers that don't get addressed.

 

2-This side content feels more like the side quests you stumble across in the main campaign, the fetch quests that feel like they're tacked on, rather than integrated into the main story.  I'd rather have DLC that directly ties in to the main story, rather than just more side content that has very little to do with what went on in the main story.

[MisterJB]

 

Ghouls look better too.

 

 

 

[Shechinah]

*snip*

 

All the health benefits that came with the job apparently died with the Archdemon.